Pathfinder item pricing problem


General Discussion (Prerelease)


For my ongoing savage tides campaign, I use the pathfinder beta rules with most of Jason's already mentioned modifications. I have a few magic items that I am not sure on how to price them properly and would like some insight from others on how valuable they think they are.

Ring of Greater Defense +x
This ring grants a +x deflection bonus to AC, a +x resistance bonus to saves, and a +x bonus on the DC for Combat Maneuvers performed against you.

Ring of Superior Defense +x
As a ring of Greater Defense, but also grants DR x/-.

For both rings, x is between 1 and 5 as usual. I am quite unsure on how to price these two and if for pathfinder DR x/- stacks with similar damage reduction (like the one from a barbarian) as this greatly influences the costs of these rings.

Gauntlets of Wrath
If you possess the rage class feature you gain 2 more rounds of rage per day and a +2 morale bonus to your Strength while raging.

As mentioned above, I use Jason's barbarian proposal that does not use rage points any more.


Maxxx wrote:


Ring of Greater Defense +x
This ring grants a +x deflection bonus to AC, a +x resistance bonus to saves, and a +x bonus on the DC for Combat Maneuvers performed against you.

Deflection: Bonus Squared x 2000

Resistence: Bonus Squared x 1000 (*1.5 for multiple effects)
Defense: I'd say Bonus Squared x 1000 (kinda like AC) (*1.5 for multiple effects)

That means all in all: Bonus Swuared x 5000

That means:
+1: 5000
+2: 20000
+3: 45000
+4: 80000
+5: 125000

Though I could go with something like x4000 to x4500 since the CM Defense bonus is something special.

Maxxx wrote:


Ring of Superior Defense +x
As a ring of Greater Defense, but also grants DR x/-.

DR ? I'd say a lot. It's not something you can easily get. For the whole item, Bonus Squared x10000 should be about right.

Maxxx wrote:


Gauntlets of Wrath
If you possess the rage class feature you gain 2 more rounds of rage per day and a +2 morale bonus to your Strength while raging.

The extra arounds are more or less a feat (Extra Rage), so it's somewhere around 10000 for that effect, though you can lessen that a bit I'd say.

The +2 Strength (for most intents and purposes unnamed, since I can't think of any other morale bonuses), I'd say Bonus Squared x 2500 at least.

That's 10000 for this effect, and maybe more.

Figure in multiple effects, and you'd end up somewhere between 20000 to 30000.


Thanks for the comments KaeYoss

KaeYoss wrote:


Deflection: Bonus Squared x 2000
Resistence: Bonus Squared x 1000 (*1.5 for multiple effects)
Defense: I'd say Bonus Squared x 1000 (kinda like AC) (*1.5 for multiple effects)

That means all in all: Bonus Swuared x 5000

Yeah, that sounds about right. As you mentioned I would lower it to 4500 times bonus squared as it is only the CM DC and not your whole combat maneuver bonus.

KaeYoss wrote:


DR ? I'd say a lot. It's not something you can easily get. For the whole item, Bonus Squared x10000 should be about right.

That would put a +1 version at 10.000gp and a +5 version at 250.000gp. I think I will have to ditch this item then, since at 10.000gp no one wants something that only gives them +1 to deflection/saves/CM DC.

KaeYoss wrote:


The extra rounds are more or less a feat (Extra Rage), so it's somewhere around 10000 for that effect, though you can lessen that a bit I'd say.

Well, the old 3.5 feat Extend Rage was +5 rounds per rage which translates to 30 additional rounds of rage for a 20th level barbarian. So the equivalent feat for pathfinder should give at least +6 to +8 rounds of rage per day. So one should probably lessen this a lot.

KaeYoss wrote:


The +2 Strength (for most intents and purposes unnamed, since I can't think of any other morale bonuses), I'd say Bonus Squared x 2500 at least.

Its basically a part of the rage spell, with the difference that it is only active when you rage, so 10.000 seams way to much.


If the DR price seems to high, you can always split it in half and get the AC/Res you want as well as the DR you want.

Still, DR/- is something you can't just get just like this. It usually involves taking several levels in barbarian (or fighter for the highest values), so it shouldn't be a bargain - especially since this would stack.

You're right about the rage extension - it's not such a big deal probably, you can lessen that. Shouldn't be too cheap, though. Say, 5000.

As for the strength: You're right, rage is actually a bonus morale bonus.

Still, this thing only working while you rage isn't much of a hindrance, since barbarians are raging most of the time in combat. I might be willing to give them a small discount, but not much.

The fact that it overlaps with a spell that's not exactly mainstream (and will be made even rarer with this item) won't get the price down that far, either.

So you're basically at bonux squared X1000, maybe X0.75 for the limitations (if that). And then you have to apply the multiplier for this thing stacking with belts of strength, wich I'd say is at least x2.5.

If the item only gave the +2 to strength to raging barbarians and cost 10.000, it would undoubtedly become a staple for barbarians. A must-have.


KaeYoss wrote:

If the DR price seems to high, you can always split it in half and get the AC/Res you want as well as the DR you want.

Adamantine: Chain Shirt, Breast Plate, Full Plate.


Dan Turek wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:

If the DR price seems to high, you can always split it in half and get the AC/Res you want as well as the DR you want.

Adamantine: Chain Shirt, Breast Plate, Full Plate.

How could I forget that???

Anyway, with Adamantine, DR 1/- costs 5000, 2/- costs 10000 and 3/- 15000. Of course, you're forsaking mithral for this, and you need to wear the big, fat armour.


I pretty much agree with Kaeyoss' figures for your items - though I disagree on counting the deflection bonus for purposes of the increased price of additional effects (about the only good rule out of the Magic Item Compendium). I still came up with a figure of 4500 x bonus squared.

I compared the CMD bonus to the Defensive Combat Training feat (+4) - compared that with the 10k starting price for a feat, and 1kXbonus squared seemed about right. Especially considering how *few* things affect combat manuevers.

DR/- should always be VERY expensive. And no, it does not stack *except* in the few situations that specifically mention it does. If you have one of those, then take the highest non-stacking one, and add the stacking one to it.


Maxxx wrote:


Gauntlets of Wrath
If you possess the rage class feature you gain 2 more rounds of rage per day and a +2 morale bonus to your Strength while raging.

Perhaps it would be easier to treat it as having a limited number of charges per day. How many times will you really use it before resting anyway?


Thanks for the comments guys, I also agree with most of Kaeyoss figures. I will use the Greater Ring of Defense with a price of 4,500gp x bonus squared and drop the Superior one, its just to complicated with the damage reduction.

I also ditch the Strength bonus of the gauntlets, they only give you 2 extra rounds of rage per day, which should be equal to or less than one fourth of the effect of an Extra Rage feat and are thus priced at 2,500gp.

Another item would be the following:
Amulet of Nature's Avatar
You gain a +X enhancement bonus to your natural armor and a +3*X competence bonus on handle animal and wild empathy checks. The amulet remains functional in wild shape even when it melds into your form and its enhancement bonus to natural armor stacks with the one granted by the wild shape class feature. Since it remains functional this item still occupies your amulet slot during wild shape, even if it is no longer visible.

As usual X is at most 5.

Any ideas? Of course there is a formula for the natural armor bonus and for the bonus on handle animal. The bonus on wild empathy can probably be calculated in the same way. Which would give a base price of 3,800gp times bonus squared if you don't increase any of the parts by the usual 50% rule. 4,700gp times bonus squared if you do. But what about the part on wild shape?


Maxxx wrote:

Amulet of Nature's Avatar

You gain a +X enhancement bonus to your natural armor and a +3*X competence bonus on handle animal and wild empathy checks. The amulet remains functional in wild shape even when it melds into your form and its enhancement bonus to natural armor stacks with the one granted by the wild shape class feature.

As usual X is at most 5.

Any ideas? Of course there is a formula for the natural armor bonus and for the bonus on handle animal. The bonus on wild empathy can probably be calculated in the same way. Which would give a base price of 3,800gp times bonus squared if you don't increase any of the parts by the usual 50% rule. 4,700gp times bonus squared if you do. But what about the part on wild shape?

Since Wild Empathy used to be the Animal Empathy skill, and operates as the Diplomacy skill, I think you're on target. I'd price at

2000 for Natural Armor + 900 for handle animal + 1350 for wild empathy = 4250 * X^2.

No cost to remain functional in wild shape - all constant effect items (that aren't armor) stay in effect in wild shape now.

No way in hell stack the Natural armor with the wild shaping. If you want that, at least double the cost of the natural armor.


Majuba wrote:


Since Wild Empathy used to be the Animal Empathy skill, and operates as the Diplomacy skill, I think you're on target. I'd price at

2000 for Natural Armor + 900 for handle animal + 1350 for wild empathy = 4250 * X^2.

No cost to remain functional in wild shape - all constant effect items (that aren't armor) stay in effect in wild shape now.

Ah, your are right, so that will pose no problem at all.

Majuba wrote:


No way in hell stack the Natural armor with the wild shaping. If you want that, at least double the cost of the natural armor.

Oh, I just looked it up and it seems we are both wrong. Beast shape/elemental body/etc give you a natural armor bonus and not an enhancement bonus to natural armor, so they stack already.


Maxxx wrote:
Oh, I just looked it up and it seems we are both wrong. Beast shape/elemental body/etc give you a natural armor bonus and not an enhancement bonus to natural armor, so they stack already.

*blink blink* Really?

I totally gypped my druid!

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