Need more mooks


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

Sovereign Court

I have recently been in conversation with a fellow gamer about what it takes to feel powerful when you hit high levels and we both reached the conclusion that, just occasionally, your level 15 heroes should face some level 1 warriors guarding a building.

The satisfaction of mowing them down with a breath, or letting your rogue go totally ninja and slay the lot without ever being seen, or your PCs laughing at the poor bandits and explaining how they should have set up the ambush gives PCs who have reached those levels a far greater sense of how far they've come than slaying yet another wizard who is partyCR+3.

So, could we please have some laughably easy mook fights in the last issue of an AP?


I've seen that more than once. In Skeletons of Scarwall, there's several rooms that are said to contain simple skeletons and zombies, and that's when you're level 12 or so.


I am something of a simulationist. I have set up certain level defaults for non-adventurers and, unless they are something special in their own way, numerous NPCs are suitable as mooks (one the players get to certain level).
Actually, from time to time some players happen to encounter NPCs who act tough and then lose badly against PCs.

As an anecdote, allow me to quote a dialogue from my colleague's session.

Evil NPC prison guard (to player character), smirking evilly wrote:
Died during escape attempt...
PC, obviously high level, with a nasty smirk, too wrote:
Nah, killed in the line of duty...

Regards,

Ruemere


We had a similar experience at 5th level in the Ptolus campaign I am playing in. We were all stoked to take on this big meeting of evil guys, and they all fell to the first fireball of the campaign. Made us feel really awesome. Of course, we had our heads handed to us in the next encounter.


Agreed. What fun is being powerful if you can't shred a bunch of mooks now and then?

I try to keep it so they'll get a little XP, but it's gratifying for the bard or someone not really killer-oriented to waste a horde of something 1/4 their level in 2 rounds.

They're usually just a prequel, of course.


I've been gaming with the same basic group of people for nine and a half years. Soon after I usurped DMing the group with relatively new first and second level characters ran into an owlbear that schooled them pretty badly. I use owlbears as a test monster to gauge the players progress with their characters and as a group.

They have taken to it with gusto and usually I am reminded every two or three levels or so to throw one or more owlbears at them. Kinda fun really.


Kirwyn wrote:

I've been gaming with the same basic group of people for nine and a half years. Soon after I usurped DMing the group with relatively new first and second level characters ran into an owlbear that schooled them pretty badly. I use owlbears as a test monster to gauge the players progress with their characters and as a group.

They have taken to it with gusto and usually I am reminded every two or three levels or so to throw one or more owlbears at them. Kinda fun really.

And they can advance to 15 HD ... and are ideal template recipients ... travel in packs of up to 8 ... mmmm ... kaiju owlbear ... Owljiiiraaaaa ...

Sovereign Court

I agree wholeheartedly, and I tried to add just such a thing into The Final Wish. Whether it survived through development and editing is another matter, however! :)

But I'll let Paizo decide if they want to let any more details out of the bag.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Rob McCreary wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly, and I tried to add just such a thing into The Final Wish.

Shameless pluggerer! ;)-

EDIT: Ahhh who am I kidding. If it were me I'd be doin' the same thing. Congrats on the gig. =D

Dark Archive

Here's a shameless plug right up your alley. Check out my Bedlam Asylum entry here I think the use of mooks is essential to give characters a feeling of empowerment. But always follow up with a tough encounter to keep them aware that while they ARE powerful, their enemies are just as powerful or moreso.


I'm sorry, I don't normally make extremely frivolous posts but...

Every time I glance over the title of this thread I get this image in my head of a chef taste testing some concoction in a pot. Smacking its lips, and giving a thoughtful hum before saying, "needs more mook." It then shakes a big jar labeled "mook" and little warriors of various races tumble into the pot.

In my own games sometimes I fear that if I don't include a large mook mosh pit my players will create their own out of the nearest tavern, inn, or market square. The mook attack has its place, and can be very interesting when you begin slipping in more powerful, but still mookish looking, foes into the mix.

Scarab Sages

15 levels 1 warriors could actually do a "tiny" bit of dmg, if you have them ambush the party properly, flat footed and on a slick surface with a height advantage...using some heavy crossbows and throwing alchemist's fire onto the oil slick they're standing in...


Isn't this the concept behind minions in 4E? 1HP monsters running around so that a Wizard might feel tough and nuke them all with one of his at will powers. Bleh!

Of course the world needs it's fair share of "mooks", but to make it a constant theme or mechanic just seems kinda lame to me. I would much rather fight something that represents a challenge, if you win... then you have the right to feel empowered.

If you're just beating on people(monsters) simply to impress upon them how powerful you are, that's the A-Train to a Lawful Evil alignment and Tyranny. Next thing you're gonna tell us is, that you're just looking for their "Weapons of Mass Destruction" and have yet to find them, lol!

Grand Lodge

I like mooks on occasion because it adds an element of stability to the game. If the idea is that the game has more low levels than higher level monsters and inhabitants, then it makes no sense at all that in every dungeon they are populated with higher and higher level bad guys.

It makes more sense, that the bulk of the bad guys are low to mid level. Then you get into fights with lieutenants and captains that provide the real challenges before the boss fight who rips ya apart and reminds you that you are not quite ready for the big leagues yet.

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