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Issues with ToD


Savage Tide Adventure Path


Hey guys,

First time post for me, but I have been reading the boards a bit.

Now, I have a problem. My party is about to finish THBM and onto ToD. The problem is that they are all fighter types (1's a Fighter, another a Duskblade, another a halfling Barbarian and last but not least, a feral wildshaping Vow of Poverty druid). None have any real diplomatic skills and all have dumbted Charisma. None of them possess any knowledge skills that will be of any use either.

From what I can see, this means that it is essentially impossible for them to gain enough victory points to win the comming battle.

I don't want to penalise my players choices but I also don't want to just adjust every encounter or outcome to fit such an inbalance party.

Does anyone have any ideas on extra adventures\encounters that I can add to help bump up the number of victory points that they could (if they choose\are successful) collect?

Thanks


Just modify some the stuff. The druid might still be able to gather some animals as support by using appropriate spells and his wild empathy, he might only gain smaller ones, but that can be countered by getting greater numbers.

On the other hand, you can have the fighter or duskblade make BAB checks to see how well they prepare the militia and make them ready for the coming challenge. If the Barbarian has Survival, you can also allow him to use that instead of any trapmaking stuff to improve the defenses of Farshore. The traps can be discribed as similar to those used to catch/hunt animals and that should be accomplished by Survival.

Concerning there Charisma problem, you can perhaps just drop the stuff concerning the election and perhaps introduce something that depends on there combat prowess, perhaps have the current militia commander be against letting the PCs command his troops and one of the PCs has to duel him to prove that they are worthy or something similar.


Welcome to the boards!

You could use Torrents of dread from Dungeon 114, if you have that adventure. The adventure is level 6, so you have to use "scaling the adventure". In the adventure the PCs have to help the Olman from the village of Mora, which is a nice way of securing their help and completing this diplomatic mission by defeating monsters.

You could also adapt some of the infamous seven to the PCs' level and add missions to defeat them.

You could let them scout for wood, plants for making medicine etc. on the island and add encounters with dinosaurs and other monsters while they are scouting.

You could add some extra pirates to Rat's end, who have to be defeated, so that the Crimson Fleet cannot use Rat's end as a base of operations.

And of course the druid can recruit dino's, which is quite dangerous, and the fighters are surely needed in such a mission.

Good luck with your campaign!


kahe wrote:
From what I can see, this means that it is essentially impossible for them to gain enough victory points to win the comming battle.

I had thought groups could manage enough VP's without needing diplomacy or skills... but if not, the leadership feat might be worthwhile. Even if their stunted charisma only obtains them a low-level cleric cohort, she can still be great for healing or diplomacy.


Thanks guys for all your help.

One question, what\who are the are the infamous seven? I have read through the whole series and don't remember who these are.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

These links are what you seek. The Infamous Seven are seven legendary beasts around the island, who you can hunt for giggles or to impress the natives (VPs). Emraag crops up in the next adventure too.
.
.
.

Link 1

Link 2


carborundum wrote:

These links are what you seek. The Infamous Seven are seven legendary beasts around the island, who you can hunt for giggles or to impress the natives (VPs). Emraag crops up in the next adventure too.

.
.
.

Link 1

Link 2

\o/ yay! My stat blocks (and others) get to stomp more characters into toe-jam! wewt!! :)


Turin the Mad wrote:
\o/ yay! My stat blocks (and others) get to stomp more characters into toe-jam! wewt!! :)

You know, it's posts like this with that icon of yours, Turin, that give a creepy Joker "Why so serious?" feeling about you.

Don't ever stop!


Troy Pacelli wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
\o/ yay! My stat blocks (and others) get to stomp more characters into toe-jam! wewt!! :)

You know, it's posts like this with that icon of yours, Turin, that give a creepy Joker "Why so serious?" feeling about you.

Don't ever stop!

I thoroughly intend not to stop Sir Pacelli!

As an aside, I statted up "Hank the Horrible" for Allen's malevolent battle-axe-wielding hobb ... halfling to use. Hank is inspired by the bud light clydesdale, Pathfinder-style.

As in, Awakened Heavy Warhorse with 2 barbarian levels and rolled ability scores. Hank is awesome. ^_^

I can't wait for someone to get their character killed by a raging warhorse with language skills!


My party too has almost all dumped cha. More skills than diplomacy are needed however. Architecture, healing, nature, handle animal off the top of my head. I would focus more on these. Mostly because I want to see flying dino riders i am hoping the party can recruit dinos earlier to get around the island quicker, allowing to them to get more done.

My pcs have just returned to Farshore with Urol, Alena, and Tavey. While not cohorts they all have a huge debt of gratitude to the party and they have some skills (or in Tavey's case puppy-dog eye charisma). I will allow the party to channel this influence through these three NPCs. (Avner survived as well, but that is a different negative in this case).

I am toying with the idea of giving a 'party' cohort of one of these three (or the PC on the Sea Wyvern who is still a basilisks statue *grin*) and you have just given the argument more credence.

ToD starts this weekend! *cheer*


I have a thread here somwhere where I discuss how I ditched the whole Victory Points concept and instead fought out the entire battle using a simple squad combat system I made up. I had a lot of free time on my hands to prepare, and running the fight still took 2 10 hour sessions.

However, my players said it was the best D&D session they had ever played, and the highight of the campaign (which sadly ended a few months later when I left Argentina). So, I encourage you to find that thread and go that way!

Shadow Lodge

I'm going to start STAP in two days.
I made clear to my player that this Campaign is tough and skill intensive.
At first they neglected diplomacy but after many warnings they realized that a diplomatic is needed and they are considering who between the cleric and the VoP Monk should be the main face of the party.

Anyway I think ToD is one of the best chapters of STAP. As a Player I always desired a chance to do some City management tasks. To see a city survive and develop by your effort is priceless to me ...

Anyway ... I don't think ToD is the only point to require High diplomacy... when STAP tuns planar Diplomacy becomes pure gold (Literally when you have to offer higer bribes to make up for poor diplomacy skills)


Even though my post here is several months too late to be of relevance to the original poster, I figured it would still serve as some advice for any other DMs running Tides of Dread at this point.

The druid in the campaign spent exactly one full month doing nothing but casting spells. First, she lowered the sand in the beach by several feet (spell from Sandstorm) to serve as a ditch. Then she raised a wall of stone all around Farshore, just inches from the palisade walls and across the docks (leaving only 2 piers, the main ones). This was done using stone shape and wall of stone, repeatedly (and using the dwarf druid from the Jade Ravens to assist as well). She also raised two stone towers by the entrance to the harbour to serve as scouting posts and a place for archers to rain down on ships passing through the harbour entrance. Using stone shape and wall of stone, she also placed a few stone barriers not too far from the harbour entrance, to serve as "sandbars" and the like, to have ships crash into them if they didn't know the right route to make headway towards the harbour entrance.

Finally, the druid also created several walls of stone to encase key areas such as the warehouses to ensure that they do not burn in case the pirates decide to cause any large-scale fire.

I have not run the attack yet on Farshore but I made some changes to the pirate fleet as I realised that the pirates should have some more surprises in store for Farshore due to the capabilities of some (i.e, the spellcaster[s])

I have done other changes, such as reworking the feats of some of the npc pirates attacking Farshore but I did not change their levels or classes as it would require too much work on my part.

Hopefully I will get a chance to run the attack on Farshore before Christmas.

CB out.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

What changes did you make to the bad guys, CB? My group have just came back to Farshore after the phanatons/ jaguar temple and have a month for prep.
First thing I did to allow me to throw all sorts of nasty at them in the assault was to let them hear of some nice guy asking about them, an "old friend". This was of course a Bad Guy cleric charming people and spying for the Kraken Society (STAP in the Realms). He had his Huge Earth Necromental (Libris Mortis) and 2 x Spectre friends follow them under the ground when they went to chase the troglodytes. That was one nasty fight - the party received 16 negative levels, with the wizard losing 4 to a crit in the surprise round! That will teach them not to have a cleric!
The trogs decided not to tangle with a group who could take such a punishment and still defeat such awful beasts.

The party VoP Druid is planning to raise ramparts and do some stone shaping too. The wizard is looking at Fabricate with big eyes, and the fighter has many ranks in Carpentry. Any ideas you throw out there will be gratefully received.


Interesting read.

My group will start TOD on December 18. We are having a long break now, since 2 of my players are on holiday.
Our last session ended with the cliffhanger of the attack of the Rat's End pirates.

I have added Torrents of Dread to the mix, and have also elaborated on the 8th Olman Village. It has a guardian comparable to Tonatiuh, but he can only be summoned in the ruins of an old lighthouse (by lighting it). Of course he has much needed information for some of the PCs. In order to reach the lighthouse you have to walk over a damaged bridge. If someone walks over it, a ghost ship full of undead rises from the deep and attacks people on the bridge in order to prevent them from reaching the lighthouse.

For the ghost ship I used the draug and the brine zombies from Tome of horrors, and some lacedons. I think it will be a great encounter.

Then there are a lot of loose ends in Farshore. One of the PCs is in open conflict with Tolin Kientai of the Jade Ravens, and I am planning a drinking contest for these two. What the PC and Tolin both do not know that an enemy of the PC will be rigging the contest and drugging the PC's drinks in order to either kidnap him and sell him as a slave (preferably to the yuan-ti slavers) or just kill him.

I am really looking forward to this!


Well, since I am not sure if any of my players frequent these boards (highly unlikely but you never know for sure), I will just post the changes I made for the bad guys in a spoiler.

Adventure:
First thing I noticed when checking out the Crimson Fleet pirates (henceforth referred to as CF) was that V'Sesslin had the spell animate dead. So I decided to browse around and see what kind of undead he could have raised not only in the 3 months or so trek to the Isle of Dread from Scuttlecove. He's a 9th level spellcaster so that means he can control 18 HD worth of undead. Cool. So I look around in Libris Mortis (because it has samples of undead skeletons and whatnot) and imagine my glee when I spot hydras and minotaurs in the mix! I decided right there and then to increase V'Sesslin's caster level by givin him Practised Spellcaster so that means he could then animate 26 HD worth of undead (I compensate that by giving him flaws (each flaw grants a bonus feat and I restrict all characters to a maximum of 2 flaws).

So V'Sesslin has animated two 9-headed hydras (with the nimble variant added on top) and 1 advanced minotaur (with the fiery variant). Next, I checked out the upgrades available for golems (Dragon 327) and gave the flesh golems the advanced binding and rudimentary intelligence. Then I armed the golems with hide armour (made from the skins of slaves of the CF) and weapons (not sure if it is too cheesy to use large mauls or if I should just stick to weapons more familiar to Yuan-ti minions).

I also added in a 1st mate for the Captain of the CF. I decided to do the whole barbarian thing. But you know me, either go big or go home. So I constructed a goliath barbarian/frenzied berserker/war hulk with the alternate class feature mountain rage (as listed in the Races of Stone book). Combine that with the Reckless Rage feat and you get a +8 to Strength while raging. In a moment of dry wit, I decided to name this npc Kratos. Because when he rages, he will have a strength of 33. It is ridiculous.

Finally, for Vanthus, I kept everything with one primary exception. I changed his feats and with the bonus feats granted by flaws (plus, I allow pcs and major npcs to buy feats at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, provided they spend 5 skill points at the time), Vanthus had most of the parry feats (they are listed in a Dragon magazine but not sure if they are listed in the Dragon Compendium). Ultimately what that does is to allow Vanthus to block melee attacks if he can beat the attack rolls. It just makes him a bit more capable in melee combat if he needs to get dirty with the rest of them.

I guess I should mention that I decided to playtest the Pathfinder RPG classes in this battle against my players' pcs (who use primarily core class from 3.5), just to see if how it balances out. So in case you were wondering what bloodline V'Sesslin has, it's the undead bloodline, of course, ;)

The reason why I made these changes was not only because the pcs used spells to great advantage but also, back in the ruins of Tamochoan, they had revived a few of the stone statues (thanks to persuading Urol to use his potions) and they added a 8th level paladin of Pelor and a 8th level cleric of Kord to Lavinia's crew. These npcs spent the months training the villagers of Farshore (defense tactics, how to use polearms, how to do tactical retreats, etc.) while the pcs fortified the village.

I am going to try to make this battle a really cinematic one, with lots of cutscenes, allowing the players to describe how they kill/defeat named npcs and the monsters, and letting them say what they want to say when they need to rally the villagers and boost morale. I will give them a chance to do the whole Braveheart speech before the battle begins, ;)

CB Out.


Adventure:
I am also fitting the main CF ship with cannons (limited quantity of cannonballs) and all of the ships are listed as caravels (which have mounts for 2 light catapults and 1 heavy, as described in the Stormwrack supplement). The further distance they can make an attack with a heavy mounted weapon (in this case, it would be a heavy ballista, but they can mount a heavy mangonel or a scorpion in a heavy mount) is 1,200 feet. At that range, accuracy is probably not going to be that great but hitting a 30 ft. high stone wall that is more than 5 feet thick is not really an issue.

Besides, the point of the artillery is to distract everyone from the real threat: the golems and the 2 9-headed hydra making a path for the CF pirates to come in by boats and making holes in the walls for them to swarm in. By doing that, I am will be insuring that the pcs will be focused on the monsters instead of the low-level pirates which should be the job of the Jade Ravens, the Olman warriors, the phanatons, and the villagers. Plus, it will give the Vanthus the slip he needs to confront Lavinia. ;)

CB Out.

Shadow Lodge

AWESOME.

*steals*


Orthos wrote:

AWESOME.

*steals*

What can I say? I am a giver, ;)

In all fairness, the first mate I constructed is stupidly brutal. And half of me says "scale the bugger back," while the other half says "nah, they need the little tough love." Eh, maybe they can handle it? They are all powergamers, to one extent or another. Although to be fair, they probably would have not lasted this long with their pcs if they were not powergamers. The STAP is a heck of a bloodbath in the earlier adventures. Which is fine. Makes you want to do it again, ;)

CB Out.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Wonderful! Great ideas, one and all! I was toying with playtesting the Oracle for V'Sesslin myself. I haven't statted it out yet. If you want nasty undead and don't mind explaining precisely how it got there, I wholeheartedly recommend the Necromentals from Libris Mortis. A Huge Necro-Earth Elemental wreaked havoc with my own powergamers. Two +23 slams doing 2d10+10+negative level will wipe the smile off anyone's face :-)
Have to see if I can get some more stuff statted up this weekend.


carborundum wrote:

Wonderful! Great ideas, one and all! I was toying with playtesting the Oracle for V'Sesslin myself. I haven't statted it out yet. If you want nasty undead and don't mind explaining precisely how it got there, I wholeheartedly recommend the Necromentals from Libris Mortis. A Huge Necro-Earth Elemental wreaked havoc with my own powergamers. Two +23 slams doing 2d10+10+negative level will wipe the smile off anyone's face :-)

Have to see if I can get some more stuff statted up this weekend.

That can definitely rain on anyone's parade. I might get a mutiny though if I make it too hard and my players really hate negative levels....hmm, I could have the ghost of Rowyn haunt them. Huh, that's actually a good idea and it makes perfect sense given that they left her stranded in the middle of the ocean on a rowboat with minimum supplies.

Thanks for the inspiration, carborundum. :)

CB Out.


Canadian Bakka wrote:

Well, since I am not sure if any of my players frequent these boards (highly unlikely but you never know for sure), I will just post the changes I made for the bad guys in a spoiler.

** spoiler omitted **...

hah. interesting ideas but don't you actually have to be large to qualify for war hulk? goliaths have powerful build and that does make them count as large for very specific things but i don't think qualifying for a prestige class is the same as a size or special size modifier for an attack (grapple, bull rush, trip, etc.)

frenzied berserker can be a real gamble too. something sets it off early and things get messy near the 'serker.

also, seems weird that players that spend the time prepping that stuff may not see any kind of advantage at all to doing so. dunno. seems counter-intuitive. good idea to try to aim for making it cinematic though. anyway, good luck!


Rusty Cylon wrote:
Canadian Bakka wrote:

Well, since I am not sure if any of my players frequent these boards (highly unlikely but you never know for sure), I will just post the changes I made for the bad guys in a spoiler.

** spoiler omitted **...

hah. interesting ideas but don't you actually have to be large to qualify for war hulk? goliaths have powerful build and that does make them count as large for very specific things but i don't think qualifying for a prestige class is the same as a size or special size modifier for an attack (grapple, bull rush, trip, etc.)

frenzied berserker can be a real gamble too. something sets it off early and things get messy near the 'serker.

also, seems weird that players that spend the time prepping that stuff may not see any kind of advantage at all to doing so. dunno. seems counter-intuitive. good idea to try to aim for making it cinematic though. anyway, good luck!

In Races of Stone, there are feats there that required Large size or bigger and they specifically states that goliaths qualify by virtue of their powerful build. If their powerful build allows them to qualify for feats requiring Large size, then the same can be said for allowing them to qualify for prestige classes that require Large size or bigger.

In regards to the frenzied berserker, yes, it is a gamble, and yes, he will have poor will saves. Iron Will does grant a +2 bonus but even then, it is still a gamble. Hence why the other pirates leave a wide berth around him and why only the captain can control the 1st mate. But the pcs don't know that.

Finally, it may seem that I am punishing my players but actually, they will be seeing the advantages of their efforts since it all slows down the pirates, preventing them from entering the harbour en masse. Furthermore, the pirates cannot enter Farshore itself until they make a breach into the 30 ft. high walls that are completely smooth (hence, not valid for climbing) and even then they are restricted to entering only through the areas they've breached (not likely to let more than 2 pirates, possibly 3, to go through at the same time - it's like a bottleneck effect). With the defenders just waiting right at the breaches, they can effectively slow down even further the flow of pirates into the village, leaving the pcs to deal with the real menaces. Once the leaders are dealt with, morale for the pirates will begin to ebb and soon they will be fleeing, onty to run into more walls with no exit. Surreder is not far off then. Less lives will be lost on Farshore's side.

Sounds to me like they'll be getting their "money's worth" for their preparation. ;)

CB Out.


Make them suffer with that frenzied warhulk goliath killing machine. Hopefully, ONE of them has a suitable mind-affecting spell around to 'turn off' his rage ... at which point, all that damage drops him into the drink like ... well, several hundred pounds of chum.


I threw a pair of Ogre Barbarian/Warhulks escorted by a handful of pirates at the East gate of Farshore, just to give my players a little extra fun.

They didn't last long but they did have the desired effect (surpri-ise!) on the party, swinging those great big flails around.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Turin the Mad wrote:
Make them suffer with that frenzied warhulk goliath killing machine. Hopefully, ONE of them has a suitable mind-affecting spell around to 'turn off' his rage ... at which point, all that damage drops him into the drink like ... well, several hundred pounds of chum.

The spellthief in my game has a habit of casting Mindless Rage (attack no-one but the caster) and then flying out of reach.

Of course, it does mean he has to stay visible, and the big beast can always have a bandolier of tomahawks...


carborundum wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Make them suffer with that frenzied warhulk goliath killing machine. Hopefully, ONE of them has a suitable mind-affecting spell around to 'turn off' his rage ... at which point, all that damage drops him into the drink like ... well, several hundred pounds of chum.

The spellthief in my game has a habit of casting Mindless Rage (attack no-one but the caster) and then flying out of reach.

Of course, it does mean he has to stay visible, and the big beast can always have a bandolier of tomahawks...

Distance Returning adamantine tomahawks, one for each iterative attack ... and take Far Shot, 'cause an ogre never knows when he needs to thwack some one a few (dozen) times with tomahawks.

or

I think about 6d6x10 explosive [plus 12d6 fragmentation to a 30' radius] is about right for a cruise missile warhead - whaddya think? :P

Shadow Lodge

Turin the Mad wrote:
carborundum wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Make them suffer with that frenzied warhulk goliath killing machine. Hopefully, ONE of them has a suitable mind-affecting spell around to 'turn off' his rage ... at which point, all that damage drops him into the drink like ... well, several hundred pounds of chum.

The spellthief in my game has a habit of casting Mindless Rage (attack no-one but the caster) and then flying out of reach.

Of course, it does mean he has to stay visible, and the big beast can always have a bandolier of tomahawks...

Distance Returning adamantine tomahawks, one for each iterative attack ... and take Far Shot, 'cause an ogre never knows when he needs to thwack some one a few (dozen) times with tomahawks.

or

I think about 6d6x10 explosive [plus 12d6 fragmentation to a 30' radius] is about right for a cruise missile warhead - whaddya think? :P

Nuke Tag. Eeeeeeeexcellent.


Wonderfully inspiring ideas, but they will probably get my group killed. So far the STAP has been hard enough for them as it is.

But perhaps I cannot resist borrowing a few things from this forum...

The nice thing is that the Crimson Fleet has planted a spy in Farshore in my campaign. If the PCs do not root him out, I have plenty of reasons to add extra nastiness to the end battle.

I especially like the parts about V'sesslin.


Luna eladrin wrote:

Wonderfully inspiring ideas, but they will probably get my group killed. So far the STAP has been hard enough for them as it is.

But perhaps I cannot resist borrowing a few things from this forum...

The nice thing is that the Crimson Fleet has planted a spy in Farshore in my campaign. If the PCs do not root him out, I have plenty of reasons to add extra nastiness to the end battle.

I especially like the parts about V'sesslin.

What's wrong with a few character deaths between friends? ^_^

Shadow Lodge

Turin the Mad wrote:
Luna eladrin wrote:

Wonderfully inspiring ideas, but they will probably get my group killed. So far the STAP has been hard enough for them as it is.

But perhaps I cannot resist borrowing a few things from this forum...

The nice thing is that the Crimson Fleet has planted a spy in Farshore in my campaign. If the PCs do not root him out, I have plenty of reasons to add extra nastiness to the end battle.

I especially like the parts about V'sesslin.

What's wrong with a few character deaths between friends? ^_^

The Obits thread needs to be revived anyway. It's been quiet too long.

*insert necromancy joke here*


Orthos wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Luna eladrin wrote:

Wonderfully inspiring ideas, but they will probably get my group killed. So far the STAP has been hard enough for them as it is.

But perhaps I cannot resist borrowing a few things from this forum...

The nice thing is that the Crimson Fleet has planted a spy in Farshore in my campaign. If the PCs do not root him out, I have plenty of reasons to add extra nastiness to the end battle.

I especially like the parts about V'sesslin.

What's wrong with a few character deaths between friends? ^_^

The Obits thread needs to be revived anyway. It's been quiet too long.

*insert necromancy joke here*

You know, if you want to get *really* entertaining, one could perhaps set up a situation where the players are cursed - the specifics would be campaign dependent - and become free-willed undead at a suitably dramatic moment. Say, Olman mummies or true mummies or ghouls/ghasts or mohrgs or something. Especially in a healing-low party, some kind of undead that has fast healing, or even ghoul variants that regain hp by devouring the corpses of those they 86.

Perhaps your campaign's assault on Farshore goes sideways and the baddies almost annihilate the entire place. As characters utter dying curses and throw the GM black looks for "unfair" game play, the Olman gawds - who have zombie-fixated tribes throughout the Isle of Dread - could intervene, or Olman necromancers could create undead out of the player characters in order to wreck vengeance or...


Turin the Mad wrote:
What's wrong with a few character deaths between friends? ^_^

As long as it is not a TPK...

But seriously, my players have been very, very lucky so far. If there was a thread of near-death experiences and miraculous rescues, it would probably be filled with incidents from my player group. This includes such incidents as being swallowed whole by a T-rex and being cut out in the nick of time, being surrounded by a group of ravenous zombies and being saved in the nick of time because another character just happened to be able to make an attack of opportunity, and being nearly strangled by a lemorian golem and then succeeding at a near-miraculous escape artist check...

I have one player who almost eats his pencils every session from nerves and excitement :-)

Perhaps that is why they keep coming back for more :-)

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