The trapped rune doors in Jzadirune, do the traps go off when you attempt to break the door or sunder the door? Or just on the attempt that causes the door to be destroyed? Do the traps get destroyed with the door and do not go off at all?
Thanks,
IMarv
Sounds like a whole bunch of questions the DM can decide the answers to.
Personally, I'd call door-smashing a successful strategy to circumvent these traps. The sound of smashing wood could be a hook for monsters coming to investigate.
Oh, if only it did involve smashing wood!
LOL
When I DM'd this I just assumed they were stone/metal doors. So when I read this question, I thought to read the book:
pg 45. "The 4-foot-diameter door is carved from 6-inch-thick wood with a ring of iron teeth"
So imaginary smashing of imaginary wood results in an imaginary 4-foot-diameter hole. Which one could allow imaginary characters to squeeze through.
Otherwise, thank-you for a helpful post.
Sounds like a whole bunch of questions the DM can decide the answers to.
Personally, I'd call door-smashing a successful strategy to circumvent these traps. The sound of smashing wood could be a hook for monsters coming to investigate.
I am the DM, I'm hoping to find other opinions on the problem.
IMarv
As a hypothetical problem, I don't really see it as a problem. Because the DM gets to decide. Even if there is an exact right answer somewhere in the published literature, it still doesn't matter, because we make up our own house rules all the time.
It's easy to argue either side of this kind of issue (and watch it snowball - just look at the post from Snorter) because it is all imaginary and doesn't actually conform to any physical rules or even common sense.
As long as you are trying to be consistent and fair, how can the players have a problem with whatever you choose (even if they would do it differently)? After all, you're the schmuck working so they can have fun.
My own preference is based on a desire to do the least work and to provide players with the most fun.
Thanks - your seemingly simple question gave me lots to think about!
I'd allow the party to smash through without penalty.
I personally would have smashing through set off the trap when the first blow occured. Afterall, you have traps go off when a pick locks fails not once it finally opens (and if you don't... well, stay consistent I guess).
Sean Mahoney
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Oh, if only it did involve smashing wood!
LOL
When I DM'd this I just assumed they were stone/metal doors. So when I read this question, I thought to read the book:
pg 45. "The 4-foot-diameter door is carved from 6-inch-thick wood with a ring of iron teeth"
So imaginary smashing of imaginary wood results in an imaginary 4-foot-diameter hole. Which one could allow imaginary characters to squeeze through.
Otherwise, thank-you for a helpful post.
What!?
I was a player in this, not the DM. I'm sure I remember those doors being solid metal.
I WAS ROBBED!
<shakes fist at the sky>
But seriously (for now), even if they'd been half that thickness, none of us would have wanted to waste time smashing them (and alerting everyone in the place). Not when there were other doors we could try first.
Not to mention the gigantic hole in the wall we could follow instead.
And two elves and a dwarf, having their secret door radar pinging every few yards...
Since we finished that campaign, I was free to go back and read it, see how we did. Am I glad that we bypassed most of Jzadirune!
I think we did about a dozen rooms at most before we found the right way, and parleyed with 'The Luggage'.
Snorter,
I feel the same way - it is a very odd detail for a dm/party to get hung up on.
I've been hanging around the SCAP forums for quite a while, and am always impressed at how helpful folks are around here. I suppose we all have our pet peeves, i know i do. I mention this because the original poster asked a straight forward question and, in my view, got a few snarky responses that amounted to "it's your job as a DM to decide these things." Just thought i'd point that out, because it's unusual to see it in the SCAP forum, where folks are always so helpful.
I didn't have any players try to break down any doors in Jzadirune. They were heck-bent on finding the proper keys rather than pick or bash any of the doors. If they had tried to bash them down, i would probably have ruled that it would trigger the traps.
If they had tried to bash them down, i would probably have ruled that it would trigger the traps.
I'm just starting the SCAP, but that is how I plan to handle it if my players decided to smash the doors. Think about it from the trap creator's perspective. These are some complex doors and traps created by some smart gnomes. Their purpose is to stop invaders into their complex. Don't you think that they would have planned for the contingency that someone might try to smash through the doors? And they would probably design their traps to go off in that case. At least that's how I look at it.
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The trapped rune doors in Jzadirune, do the traps go off when you attempt to break the door or sunder the door? Or just on the attempt that causes the door to be destroyed? Do the traps get destroyed with the door and do not go off at all?
Thanks,
IMarv
Sorry for coming to the party late, here.
Here's my take on it:
1) it's not explicitly stated
2) as has been indicated - it is probably a DM call on that - so long as you remain consistent in such arbitrary decisions, there's nothing to contest. However, since you took the time to ask I believe you deserve a more helpful response than some of those you've gotten already.
3) I would rule that once the door is "broken down/in etc" the trap is set off.
Why?
for the long answer:
The gnomes that crafted the place were pretty darn clever and ingenuitive. If the traps are rigged to go off when the door is opened - one can hypothesize that the sudden slack, or lack of pressure on the doorway/frame etc is what causes the trap to spring. Breaking a hole in an otherwise perfectly balanced and symetrical door would cause some degree of slack, imbalanced pressure, absense of exact tension, skewed leverage etc. Something would be off-kilter and such slight disturbance would activate the trap (think of the bag of sand Indiana Jones tried to use to confuse the stone pedestal that the idol sat on in the beginning of Raiders of the Lost Ark. If the Hovitos could be that clever there's no doubt the gnomes of Jzadirune could be.
Again - this is hypothetical - there's no specified information in the SCAP module. So it is your call (as DM). I hope these comments are helpful in imagining your own resolutions, and that it didn't come too late.
Since finishing SCAP a couple months ago, I have been spending most of my time in the AoW forum since I'm now running that, but still make occasional visits here to help out others trying to run this module - to pay it forward since so many here were so helpful over the 22 months of running SCAP (and the 6 months of planning I spent on here reading etc before even starting it!)
Robert
I've been hanging around the SCAP forums for quite a while, and am always impressed at how helpful folks are around here. I suppose we all have our pet peeves, i know i do. I mention this because the original poster asked a straight forward question and, in my view, got a few snarky responses that amounted to "it's your job as a DM to decide these things." Just thought i'd point that out, because it's unusual to see it in the SCAP forum, where folks are always so helpful.
I don't see how it is snarky to point out there is no 'correct answer' to this question.
Its an answer I'd appreciate getting. My initial response was a bit terse, because it wasn't initially clear if the OP was a player or a DM.Maybe it wasn't a perfect post, but no-one else seemed interested in answering so I stepped up...
While Gnomes are supposed to be smart, these ones were essentially squatters in someone else's old place. They never even figured our how to deal with the Vanishing; they just died or left. After helping to spread the Vanishing via their magic items, of course.
For the story's sake, brilliant, vain, and unwise Gnomes also works well. Or maybe Gnomes easily deluded because of the magical richness and profitability of this location? Either choice makes a good counterpoint to Keyghan Ghelve's own tragic participation in the unspeakable crimes perpetrated in Chapter 1.
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I didn't have any players try to break down any doors in Jzadirune. They were heck-bent on finding the proper keys rather than pick or bash any of the doors. If they had tried to bash them down, i would probably have ruled that it would trigger the traps.
Yes, me too. If I'd been the DM, of course, and not the player.
It is up to the DM, but I believe the DM can be as lethal as he likes, for several reasons;
- They have been warned, by Ghelve, that all the gear doors are trapped, therefore, they really should know better. This isn't some random attack by a sadistic DM, it's an informed choice they make to take that risk.
- If they haven't been warned by Ghelve, it's because they probably burst in and beat him senseless, or otherwise made themselves completely obnoxious. Such tactics should come back to bite them on the ass.
- It makes no sense to build a trap that doesn't go off when disturbed by an unskilled intruder. Huge folk with greataxes are exactly the sort of people I want to keep out of my home.
- It's unfair on a PC who's invested the skill ranks to be good at Search/Open Lock/Disable Device, that he should get gassed or zapped on even a good roll, but never the person with no skill, who whacks the door with an axe. Why ever play a trap-finder?
- Getting past the gear doors is totally irrelevant to the success of the adventure.
- There are other, more immediate routes that can be taken, which should be examined first. These do actually lead to the first keys, though the PCs won't know that.
- It's healthy for the players to get used to the concept that 'there are things we can handle, and there are things we can't, which can wait for later'.
- It adds to the verisimilitude of a setting, that the whole world doesn't revolve around them, which is what would be implied if every location were filled with encounters and hazards that exactly match their current level.
- They have been warned, by Ghelve, that all the gear doors are trapped, therefore, they really should know better. This isn't some random attack by a sadistic DM, it's an informed choice they make to take that risk.
- If they haven't been warned by Ghelve, it's because they probably burst in and beat him senseless, or otherwise made themselves completely obnoxious. Such tactics should come back to bite them on the ass.
- It makes no sense to build a trap that doesn't go off when disturbed by an unskilled intruder. Huge folk with greataxes are exactly the sort of people I want to keep out of my home.
- It's unfair on a PC who's invested the skill ranks to be good at Search/Open Lock/Disable Device, that he should get gassed or zapped on even a good roll, but never the person with no skill, who whacks the door with an axe. Why ever play a trap-finder?
- Getting past the gear doors is totally irrelevant to the success of the adventure.
- There are other, more immediate routes that can be taken, which should be examined first. These do actually lead to the first keys, though the PCs won't know that.
- It's healthy for the players to get used to the concept that 'there are things we can handle, and there are things we can't, which can wait for later'.
- It adds to the verisimilitude of a setting, that the whole world doesn't revolve around them, which is what would be implied if every location were filled with encounters and hazards that exactly match their current level.
Several excellent points in the list above, very well thought out. Thanks for the post.