Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
|
The current Epic Level rules are a mess.
The way to make the game more mythic in scope is not to make it more bloated with math.
So if Paizo does an "Epic Level" book, it will probably be a complete re-do. With that in mind, I'm very curious to hear what people think about the idea of play beyond level 20.
What are you looking for conceptually?
What are you looking for mechanically?
If you're skeptical, what can we do that might get you to give this one a try?
Any deal breakers?
|
I personally...
I don't ever see any of my games getting up that high unless I started a game there, so I've never even bothered looking at the rules myself.
If I did an epic game, though, it would go down in Asgard. I'd blow the prime material plane (mostly) off for such a game.
I'm just brainstorming here; don't know if I'm much help. Totally planar though...
I wouldn't say I was skeptical of a rules set per se, merely of my likelihood to use it.
We did some of that kind of stuff back when I was a kid; I guess the companion box, or master box set or whatever it was....I just personally couldn't see myself ever playing a game out that long these days.
|
|
I have to go with Heathy here. Epic would have to be completely divorced from the mundane, an ascension of sorts.
But then, I've never played anything past 18th level, and just read the Epic Handbook (wasn't impressed, btw), so I don't have any practical experience there.
One deal breaker is similar to my psionics hang-up. If it just seems "bolted on" to the existing mechanics, it would turn me off.
Things I'd want to see in the Pathfinder Epic rules:
1) Truly epic magic. I don't mind slapping together new spells, but I want something that doesn't look like a jigsaw puzzle and feel like the solution to a differential equation. I want magic to move mountains, build cloud cities on real clouds, part oceans, and battle the mightiest of foes.
2) Class features. Actual class features, not just a bunch of feats that are more of the same or absolutely bizarre.
3) Foes that are truly epic, not just a mound of HD so high that the calculator starts to weep when it sees them. Dragons are naturally mythical, fantastic, even epic. A mound of feathers with Charisma drain? Not so much.
4) Prestige classes that are also truly epic, for characters who have already attained the power of their regular classes. The ones in the ELH? Not really epic feeling overall, though some of their abilities were getting there (like the juggernaut's ability to go through a wall of force).
5) Epic magic items. Heaven forbid, even artifact creation.
6) The ability to do epic things. Things like found your own kingdom, ascend to godhood, become a legend, and so on. Some of this can be done pre-epic, but include some details and ideas.
7) Good integration of pre-epic and epic levels is a must. Material to guide a DM from the below-20 to post-20 levels. How do you transition between the two? What can you expect?
Really, a lot of the work might come down to supporting players and DMs, helping them adapt to this new level of power. That was one problem I had with the ELH. Suddenly, you wake up to find you're 21st level and a whole new bunch of feats are available. They should have re-read the material from the Deities and Demigods book, which at least touched on the transition from mortal to divine games.
Of course, good design with solid mechanics never hurt either.
|
|
Another thing that really bothered me about WOTC's what I'll call "concept" books is this: a lot of times it felt like they existed in a total vacuum.
Ghostwalk? Incomplete; and when 3.5 came out, abandoned like a red headed stepchild. There was some good stuff there.
Book of Nine Swords? Incomplete; there was a ton of stuff to keep doing there. NOPE. It's over. 4e is out.
It feels like when a t.v. network starts a really good sci fi show, then cancels it arbitrarily, then starts another one and expects me to try it out? No thanks, I'll cut my losses.
Why did I buy Ghostwalk? Meh; it might come in handy some day; IDK...
There's a ton of great concepts they just sit on. I find it extremely annoying. As an aside, there's a ton of intellectual property I'd like to see again, and the lesson I learned from 3.5 WOTC is this:
If I want Greyhawk, I'll get FR.
If I want Dark Sun, well I'll get Eberron.
Don't get me started on the Styes.
And, I don't mean to start a back-and-forth here with anybody over WOTC, but I'm just going by stream of consciousness here and this is where it took me.
I feel like the Epic Book was probably the same way. One book, let it fester there. No adventures; no advancement of the concept; whatever.
|
Well, I don't really know how to describe what epic means to me.. Something between the 'hero of the village' and 'godlike'.. i realize that's vague, but one i will repeat one problem i've had with epic:
I typically play spellcasters, and our games go fast, and end up epic+.. the DCs of my characters spells seem irrelevant when their worst save is beating my DC on a roll of 6+.. I do think something should be done about it, no idea how or what though..
An epic character should be the 'hammer of the gods', savior of planes, and create cities on floating islands in the sky. You know.. epic. ;)