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First, I want to stress that this post is in no way a criticism of either the SD AP (which I <3) or the editorial decision to shorten the adventures (which I can understand). Still, there have already been several posts on the subject that the AP feels 'rushed' in certain places. I would put it another way: There are a lot of promising ideas, but most of them are left for DMs to flesh out. Therefore, when I use the term 'weak spots' below, I don't mean to disrespect the respective author's work - I just want to start a discussion about what could be done to yet improve the AP further.
That being said, I would like to ask the community for their input. This could probably work out as follows:
1a) Identify the AP's 'weak spots',
1b) Discuss what exactly makes a particular part unsatisfying to DM and/or play,
2) Fill in the blanks with our own ideas, hooks, et cetera.
Would anyone be interested in this? If so, I would very much appreciate your help and your ideas.
To start, I will list the AP parts that stuck out for me:
- RIDDLEPORT: Sure, it is a drow-themed AP. Still, I feel that there is a lot of work being done setting up Riddleport as an adventure background, but the PCs only spend very little time there and (probably) don't return there over the course of the AP. I think something could be done to remedy this by padding out the whole first chapter, e.g.: giving the PCs more missions to accomplish before the betrayal by Vancaskerin. Also, the whole 'competing crime bosses' party could be played up. Any suggestions as to what adventures (from Dungeon magazine or otherwise) might come in handy here? What plots have you cooked up to make Riddleport more meaningful?
- THE ELVEN CHOO-CHOO TRAIN: As with some others on these boards, I am having a slight problem with how the whole 'now you are drow, go' part is handled. I can especially see problems with players whose characters have 'mercenary' motivations. Any suggestions on how to make spying for the elves more attractive for any kind of character?
- THE DARKLANDS: Again, there is a lot of background detail given, but the PCs are on a constant timer because they have to find out about Big A's plans. While that is probably okay in Zirnakayin itself, the elf gate could drop the party further away from the big city, thus creating space for more underdark-themed encounters. I think it would be a good idea to maybe establish two more factions of Darklands inhabitants besides the drow, and making it possible for the PCs to ally with one of them, so that they can have a fallback position, should things in Zirnakayin turn sour. Suggestions for this or other Darklands encounters? One excellent idea I read on the boards was to integrate 'The Chasm Bridge' from Dungeon #101 into the AP.
I'm looking forward to your thoughts. And sorry if my English is somewhat clunky, I'm not a native speaker :-).
- THE ELVEN CHOO-CHOO TRAIN: As with some others on these boards, I am having a slight problem with how the whole 'now you are drow, go' part is handled. I can especially see problems with players whose characters have 'mercenary' motivations. Any suggestions on how to make spying for the elves more attractive for any kind of...
I second this sentiment. I am not sure there is any deft way for the adventure to be modified to suit a party not interested in turning into drow and going deep into enemy territory. I am fairly certain that a party approaching as outsiders would bring the full wrath of an entire drow city down upon their heads.
I would suggest spreading out the various sites of interest in Zirnakaynin over a much larger area of the Darklands. Instead of Zirnakaynin being a large closely clustered city perhaps our drow sites of interested could be located in a more spread out and sparsely populated surrounding areas of the city proper. Then the party would not have to enter the drow city proper and risk walking amongst the drow. It could turn this adventure into a guerrilla warfare style adventure against the drow. Non-disguised PCs would approach this adventure as a multi-dungeon crawl with the party eluding the drow in the wild Darklands between assaults upon sites of interest.
Maybe even have a NPC elf-spy-turned-drow-via-magic being a point of contact to update them on their next target by regularly meeting the PC's at prearranged "drop points" in the Darklands.
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I can't speak to the later portions of the adventure as i am still GMing in Riddleport. Two months in we are at the Foamrunner.
I love the town of Riddleport. It is a vast blank slate to fill in my players wants and desires... they will be sad to leave. I will be sad to have them leave as Riddleport is full of fun interesting slimeballs who are just a joy to roleplay as a GM.
I have 1 character joining the cyphermages as an apprentice (lots of petty errands and scroll scribing, which occasionally gets her a new spell), 1 character going to try to become a champion in Zincher's Arena (long story... but the short version is - survive the bloodbath win 1,000gp - the player's motivation is as much the xp as the gp), and the rest of the group is busy trying to make the GG as profitable as possible (including installing a beer brewery and buying hard liquor from a dockside fence at discounted prices in order to bolster the bottom line). I can't remember the last time we have gone 2 months without a blatant railroad track... i'm almost sad to see it coming. At this point they are writing the adventure and i am along for the ride.
I haven't prepped far enough in advance to worry about the elven choo choo - but my group is a bunch of sneaky characters and so i'm guessing they will be all over the infiltrate the dark elves plan.
I do hope to be able to spend time in Riddleport during the rest of the AP, my guess is my group is not going to want to be rid of the GG after working so hard to make is a success.
Thanks for starting this thread... i'll be watching for pitfalls that may lie ahead as i am guessing most groups run faster than mine.
Thank you very much for your comments!
Cohlrox, I like your suggestion of spreading out the Zirnakayin part of the adventure very much. One possible solution might be for the characters not to enter the service of one of the major drow houses, but instead that of an impoverished / down-on-their-luck / outcast drow minor house which might even employ more 'non-drow' mercenaries. I would very much like to set the whole adventure up as more of an intrigue-style thing, rather than 'ok, now you can all be evil, even if you don't want to'.
Spontaneous thought: Maybe the house is so small that the PCs can work their way up into a position of trust and then actually take the house over? Thus, they would have various resources at their disposal, and could really 'plot' against the other, major houses.
By setting the adventure in the poorer quarters of Zirnakayin, the PCs would still be able to experience the whole 'what are PF Drow like?' thing, but could take a more active role than originally envisioned in the adventure.
I positively hate the conclusion of that part, by the way. Any suggestions on how the PCs might be uncovered instead? Ideally, it should happen exactly at the point where they receive crucial information about A.'s plans.
I also like the elf contact idea. Maybe use Shalelu for that? Thus, she could become more than just a side NPC.
kitenerd, your input is very much appreciated regardless of the fact how far your group has actually gotten :-) If anything, my GMing experience has taught me to identify problems with my group's particular playing style in advance; and I'm sure I'm not the only GM who does this. If you find anything fishy, let us know :-).
Heh. My group also includes a cyphermage apprentice. Anything you wrote up to specifically cater to that character - e.g. initiation ceremonies, tasks or something similar?
Still looking for ways to lengthen the group's stay in Riddleport. I'll flip through some of my Thieves World sourcebooks, maybe I'll turn up something there.
Anyone else wanting to chime in, please do so!
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Heh. My group also includes a cyphermage apprentice. Anything you wrote up to specifically cater to that character - e.g. initiation ceremonies, tasks or something similar?
I didn't do anything specific as far as ceremonies. She waited outside the Cypherlodge every day introducing herself to everyone who came out and asking about opportunities. Eventually someone saw fit to engage her as an apprentice. Mostly he abuses her for running petty errands (spell components and what not) and for scribing scrolls (in my Riddleport all legal scroll trade is controlled by Cypherlodge and they are the exclusive source for the shops... then of course there is the black market trade down on the docks). This serves to keep her from her duties at the Gold Goblin and makes for a nice conflict of interest. She also is occasionally asked to scribe something that she doesn't have and then she can add it to her book as well. The real bonus is she can come and go from the lodge at will, meaning they get big time help on knowledge rolls.
I'm looking forward to your thoughts. And sorry if my English is somewhat clunky, I'm not a native speaker :-).
Ah, no, Dance, compared to other posters (thankfully, none of them here), your English is wonderful, far better than most who claim it as their PRIMARY language...at least, this thread does not incite the Bloody-handed (yes, I LIKE red pens, dang it), Fanged, English Teacher of Doom instincts. ;->
That said, I think a lot of the suggestions have merit, plus, for those concerned about 6th level in SD, and/or whose parties may want to return to Riddleport and perhaps tidy up anything unfinished...I'm thinking it wouldn't be a bad thing to somehow combine the two. I haven't started yet (our group meets once a month, if we're lucky, and our other 2 GMs are still working on RotRL and CotCT), so I'm not sure if that's possible, but it could be investigated.
I like the ideas of using more "suburban" areas of the drow city, as well as a lesser House, but the trick is not to get too bogged down with establishing the party in the Darklands indefinitely; everyone's on a time limit (the Extinction Level Event, if nothing else). And the idea of getting the last big chunk o' info in the same encounter as the disguise drop is priceless ("Woo hoo! We got it! CRAP! Time to go!" ::shooom!::). ;->
As for allies in the Darklands: grey gnomes! According to at least one mention (the Gods supplement), the...gah...svirfneblin (whew!) do exist, but they may be much like 3.0 svir--grey gnomes, and not necessarily willing to help out topsiders against their dangerous neighbors...a possibility, nonetheless.
I'm looking forward to your thoughts. And sorry if my English is somewhat clunky, I'm not a native speaker :-).
Ah, no, Dance, compared to other posters (thankfully, none of them here), your English is wonderful, far better than most who claim it as their PRIMARY language...at least, this thread does not incite the Bloody-handed (yes, I LIKE red pens, dang it), Fanged, English Teacher of Doom instincts. ;->
Gah! I am ashamed to re-read my posts sometimes. Ive got dyslexia big time and I often mis-type words that I got right in my head. sorry for the trouble.
For expanding on the Riddleport stay, the following are some ideas I used with my group.
When they returned from the Devil's Elbow they were presumed dead. They had not been able to come back on the flying cloud, because the Creesy had agreed to take the dwarves back, but he was first going to wait for them to go up to Witchlight tower and try to rescue the cyphermages (which the dwarves had told them were holed up in there). Through his spyglass, Creesy saw the tower go down and assumed the heroes were dead. In the end, he sailed back without them and initiated a rumor that they, along with most the cyphermage expedition, had died. The heroes managed to get off the island, but only after cutting a deal with Zincher and negotiating another deal with a longship full of Northmen that had come to explore the sight of the fallen star.
When they finally got back to Riddleport they wanted revenge on Creesy for leaving them behind, so they demanded his ship as payment. There was a bit of fight here, as Creesy was very close to his ship, and in the end he and several of his most loyal crew members were killed.
The heroes also discovered that the Overlord had swooped in and taken the Gold Goblin. This led to a visit to the overlord, where they tried to get money for the Goblin (which they didn't really want anyhow). He had been willing to give it back to them if they would do some work for him (like take out Elias Tammerhawk), but they just wanted money and they asked for a lot. In the end they reached an agreement, but the Overlord didn't come through with his end, so they decided to burn down the Gold Goblin and several of the Overlord's waterfront warehouses as payback. They then fled Riddleport.
However, before that happened they had also been negotiating with Tammerhawk because one of the PCs belonged to the cyphermage lodge. Tammerhawk wanted to get them on his side and use them to help bring down Cromarcky. This never had a chance to happen due to the actions of the PCs, but I felt it had the potential to be a fun addition to the Riddleport part of the campaign. In the end, the heroes were basically banished from Riddleport with a bounty on their heads.
I had been trying to have both Cromarcky and Tammerhawk wanting to recruit the party to use against the other faction, and I would have been ready for either eventuality. This didn't really work because the heroes fled the city after burning down a big chunk of the waterfront and the the Gold Goblin.
They sailed to Rodericks Cove with Kwava and there they traded the ship for horses and supplies so they could go to the Mierani. In Roderick's Cove a band of bounty hunters in the employ of the very pissed off Overlord tracked them down, but the heroes dispatched them in the middle of the marketplace (I used the wererats here because I didn't end up running the were rat encounter in Shadow in the Sky)
They have since left Roderick's Cove, and I am now running ":Last Breaths of Asheport". I placed Ashenport between Roderick's Cove and Riddleport along the coast.
Once that is done they will continue the journey to the elven woods. I plan to expand on this as well, because even after Asheport my highest level character will only be level 6 and my other PCs will be at 5th.
I have some plans for the journey to the elven woods including an encounter with a female troll and a few of her young, who are in the midst of attacking a small band of Varisian Gypsies.
The PCs have been taking about trying to sneak back into Riddleport. They still have some Noqual ore and would like a chance to get it smelted at the gas forges and potential get their hands on some magical upgrades. This could be another adventure, since there are wanted posters for them all over the city with a bounty on their heads from the Overlord.
I also want to expand on the Velushu horsemen. I'm going to have a young chief who has recently taken on a new "wife" be gathering other normally peaceful horsefolk for war. The wife is actually a hag in disguise and she has thoroughly charmed and corrupted the chief (a drow would work here as well, but I wanted a break from the drow for a bit). She is using him as puppet and wishes him to lead a raid against Riddleport. Luckily for the heroes some of his own kin are suspicious of his strange behaviour and mysterious bride, so they might try to get the heroes to help them. I want this little adventure to have a real sword and sorcery, conan style feel to it.
Finally, I've been thinking a bit about trying to throw some Thassilonian ruins into the journey. The area they are travelling through is part of the most powerful Thassilonian nation- one where the runelord of pride was said to have bound angels and dragons to his service. It is said to have many monuments, but there is no discussion about any of these in the adventure, nor are there really any marked on the maps. I figure that the remains of some of the settlements might be along the Velushu river. I see the Velushu as superstitious of them, and maybe taking on the role as guardians, who try to keep adventurers and treasure hunters from exploring them.
Anyhow, the details of my campaign can be found on the campaign journals at a "canuk runs Second Darkness", in case you want to see more info on any of the ideas I've mentioned.
Please consult my posts on the end of the third part of this AP.
Go to Winning The Battle For Celwynvian.
I'm very interested to see how many parties pulled up and waited for orders or reinforcements.
Thanks a lot, everyone! I just got back from the holidays and thus haven't gotten around to read everything yet, but I'll do so as soon as I've had a good night's sleep ;).
Some fine ideas in this thread, thanks everyone for contributing! If you have any more thoughts on the subject, please keep them coming :).
I have started to work on the first of the problems I had with the AP, and I think that the 3.5 adventure "Death in Freeport" would nicely fit the feel and theme of the AP, if slightly tweaked.
For those of you who don't have the book, the plot is basically as follows:
Currently, I'm looking for ideas as to how to adapt this to SD. Here's what I have so far:
- The whole plot unfolds in between the Tournament and Saul's assassination attempt.
- Basically, Lucius et al. stay the way they are written. The Brotherhood of the Yellow Sign also works well as a Demon Lord cult, thus explaining Drow activity in the city.
- Milos becomes a Drow in disguise.
- Ideally, there will be some sort of connection between Saul and "Milos". Saul will basically be using the "Brotherhood" to his own ends, so he will still be the middleman who has a reason to kill the party in the end.
Any input on the why's and how's of this connection?
Anyhow, the details of my campaign can be found on the campaign journals at a "canuk runs Second Darkness", in case you want to see more info on any of the ideas I've mentioned.
I have been following your campaign write-up's with keen interest. I like a lot of what you have done to fill in some of the gaps Dance of Ruin mentions.
I am currently gearing up to run SD here in another month or so.
My plan was to use...
The Freeport Trilogy to pad Riddleport. I'm an old and avid fan of the Freeport setting and I think a lot of what is in there would work for Riddleport. I have some interesting plans for the Serpentfolk that involve my players and the Cyphergate.
Right now I'm mainly concerned with the betrayal by Saul not seeming forced for the sake of moving the adventure forward.
It is great that the GM's on this board are so willing to contribute their experiences and wisdom.
CJ
My plan was to use...Spoiler:The Freeport Trilogy to pad Riddleport. I'm an old and avid fan of the Freeport setting and I think a lot of what is in there would work for Riddleport. I have some interesting plans for the Serpentfolk that involve my players and the Cyphergate.
Hi there thelesuit,
since we're both planning on using the FP trilogy: in broad strokes, do you think you could share what you have planned? The Cyphergate bit especially has piqued my curiosity.
I don't own any of the Freeport material, but from what I know of it I could see it working very well with Riddleport. The two cities seem pretty similar.
When I ran Shadow in the Sky I found that the part where the Saul betrayed the PCs seemed a little contrived and arbitrary. For that reason he didn't really betray my PCs, though they did discover that he had been responsible for the dwarf's death, and that he was involved with the drow.
Anyhow, the details of my campaign can be found on the campaign journals at a "canuk runs Second Darkness", in case you want to see more info on any of the ideas I've mentioned.I have been following your campaign write-up's with keen interest. I like a lot of what you have done to fill in some of the gaps Dance of Ruin mentions.
I am currently gearing up to run SD here in another month or so.
My plan was to use...** spoiler omitted **
Right now I'm mainly concerned with the betrayal by Saul not seeming forced for the sake of moving the adventure forward.
It is great that the GM's on this board are so willing to contribute their experiences and wisdom.
CJ
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Please share and expand your working in of Freeport into Riddleport and SD; I believe that material will come in very handy.
: )
And you can order this steal from the Paizo store for $2.
I added a character from Sinister Adventures, Old Fish (who I call Old Trout) who is both somewhat mentor, somewhat dangerous adventure seed to one of the party members. For instance, he is one of the very few who sells silver weapons in Riddleport, and yet he readily sells poisons and small easy to conceal crossbows to the wererats of the city.
I too feel strongly that Saul's betrayal seems a bit jarring and 'forced on' a little prematurely.
And as PHD said 'it is great that the GM's on this board are so willing to contribute their experiences and wisdom'.
Nice one, baron - I had already forgotten about Nick's sneek peek page since it was updated so irregularly. Yes, I can see how that NPC would work in SD.
Also, I have to agree with your statement about Saul's betrayal ... it should either happen after more story/involvement (to make it more meaningful) or not happen at all. I think it should be possible to give Saul an 'out', where he can explain that he worked with the Drow to increase his profit, but that he was as much in the dark about their plans as the PCs ...
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I have Saul almost as a Tony Soprano type. Likeable at times, fair with money and always encouraging of the characters' actions, he can have moments the players' characters can readily identify with, but ultimately, he is a one cruel, plotting, murdering son of a btch.
I have him as a Fighter 4/Rouge 5/Expert 3
Not an optimum build but fits with the character, and I have no intention of him entering combat with the PCs.
Something akin to being a very low profile version of the 'Grandmaster Torch' of Riddleport.
Not a lot of magic items but LOTS of unique special items he crafted as well as multiple types of poisons.
I can see him now waiting for the PCs as they prepare to leave for Devil's Elbow, "Hullo boyos, I 'ear you be takin a trip to that wretched island. Well I seem to remember that there are a fair number of Scolopendridae Giganta that breeds over there and... what? Oh, Scolopendridae Giganta are giant centipedes. Please save your questions for later, anyways, i'll be needin a few of them LIVE mind you for...'bait', yes for 'bait'. Now would you be interested if capturing a bout half a dozen live ones for me ? Why do I need live bait? Boyos you don't know the first thing about 'fishing' do you ?
Hi there thelesuit,since we're both planning on using the FP trilogy: in broad strokes, do you think you could share what you have planned? The Cyphergate bit especially has piqued my curiosity.
I like the idea of having the particulars of Death in Freeport happening between Beating the Devil and Part Three (Saul's betrayal).
I have a reason to keep the Cult of the Yellow Sign as Serpentfolk -- as it ties into the characters' backgrounds.
I also don't have a problem with multiple series of tunnels under Riddleport.
For me Milos works well as a serpentfolk.
My problems come with Terror and Madness. I'm not comfortable with erecting a lighthouse out on the coast, so I might need to come up with some other plot -- maybe something involving the Cyphergate NOT related to what the drow are planning. Which complicates things, as the serpentfolk are interested in stopping the drow, but only so they can enact their own horrid ritual.
I think Gaston works well as an antagonist for the secondary plot, and one that the PCs pretty much resolve by the time they are 7th level. I plan on beefing up the climax a bit to make it a challenge for the PCs.
I'm also going to use quite a bit of Freeport itself to fill in the holes in Riddleport's description. I've run Freeport on several occasions and have a pretty good feel for how the city works. Though Riddleport is a bit more lawless -- which should be fun. Though Riddleport seems smaller than Freeport which might take some tailoring.
I'm looking for a good candidate for an event to take the place of the unveiling of Milton's Folly -- maybe something like the unlocking of aboleth rituals associated with the Cyphergate...I still like the idea of projecting a giant image of the Yellow Sign though.
Any thoughts?
CJ
I'm thinking of using Vengeance in Freeport as a side quest between SD 2 and 3, setting it as Zincher's plan since the pcs have helped him get captured by a certain someone. As such he enacted vengeance against those who wrought him trouble and that includes the Goblin (replacing the initial place)... Should work out nicely, well I hope it does :P
I added a character from Sinister Adventures, Old Fish (who I call Old Trout) who is both somewhat mentor, somewhat dangerous adventure seed to one of the party members. For instance, he is one of the very few who sells silver weapons in Riddleport, and yet he readily sells poisons and small easy to conceal crossbows to the wererats of the city.
Adding Old Fish is a nice idea. In fact there are a lot of nice ideas here.
Has anyone used Lavender Lil? How did you introduce her and use her in the plot? I was think of adding her in to complicate the plot with Saul and Clegg, but I'm not sure how I'll move forward. I may use her to add more reasoning behind Saul's betrayal. Maybe it would make more sense if Saul betrays the group because he thinks they are agents working for Lavender.
I added a character from Sinister Adventures, Old Fish (who I call Old Trout) who is both somewhat mentor, somewhat dangerous adventure seed to one of the party members. For instance, he is one of the very few who sells silver weapons in Riddleport, and yet he readily sells poisons and small easy to conceal crossbows to the wererats of the city.Adding Old Fish is a nice idea. In fact there are a lot of nice ideas here.
Has anyone used Lavender Lil? How did you introduce her and use her in the plot? I was think of adding her in to complicate the plot with Saul and Clegg, but I'm not sure how I'll move forward. I may use her to add more reasoning behind Saul's betrayal. Maybe it would make more sense if Saul betrays the group because he thinks they are agents working for Lavender.
Oddly enough I used her but not in that way.
Has anyone used Lavender Lil? How did you introduce her and use her in the plot? I was think of adding her in to complicate the plot with Saul and Clegg, but I'm not sure how I'll move forward. I may use her to add more reasoning behind Saul's betrayal. Maybe it would make more sense if Saul betrays the group because he thinks they are agents working for Lavender.
I like the idea of using Lavender as a woman drawn to bad men -- or just one who continually follows her heart into folly and trouble. Also making her a "gold digger" with a bit of depth. She wants an escape from her life as a "painted woman" and sees a succession of wealthy criminals (and men who only want her for one thing) as the means to achieve that.
I hope to have a lot of fun having her attempt to charm and manipulate the party...but I don't think she has the wherewithal to have "agents". I think adding her to the Saul/Clegg plot has a lot of merit.
CJ
Gah! I am ashamed to re-read my posts sometimes. Ive got dyslexia big time and I often mis-type words that I got right in my head. sorry for the trouble.I'm looking forward to your thoughts. And sorry if my English is somewhat clunky, I'm not a native speaker :-).
Ah, no, Dance, compared to other posters (thankfully, none of them here), your English is wonderful, far better than most who claim it as their PRIMARY language...at least, this thread does not incite the Bloody-handed (yes, I LIKE red pens, dang it), Fanged, English Teacher of Doom instincts. ;->
Meh, Cohlrox, you're not bad, honest. And I do apologize for the rant taking up space. :-)
That being said, talking about "padding" or replacing even in the first adventure:
why not link the set piece and the Splithog Pauper within more directly with Saul, and provide some better reason to betray the party that way? For instance, Saul may be trying to "diversify" his interests throughout the town to regain his standing, and not just depend solely on the Goblin or even the Drow to make his fortune. Beltias may well be one of his agents in this regard, and Saul's understandably irked when the party sticks their noses where they're not wanted. For that, the best of the suggested hooks may very well be "Patricide", where the Gold Goblin barmaid Marzielle has no clue that her boss Saul is supporting the s.o.b. she wants to see dead.
If this was mentioned before in a former post, forgive me; it's waaaay too late at night/early in the morning here for coherent thought. ;->
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Very similar stuff to what I had been working on. Thus Lady Bluehawk is so kewl ; )
I have not implemented this in my campaign arc yet, but I was thinking along these similar lines.
The Gold Goblin's manager Larur Fedlin starts finding descrepencies on the books (both going to the Drow and Sauls other endevors) and asks Saul a few times too many and that seals the dwarf's fate.
By the time the pcs learn of Larur's murder and even later on take down Beltias gang (the small time gang leader for his part was making overtures to the other crime lords, thinking Saul was washed up and it was time for his gang to join another 'rising star'), Mr. Vancaskerin has had enough. Even if the pcs have no inkling this is all tied to Saul, he none the less decides it's time to cut losses and put an end to the Pandora's box that are the pcs. He then contacts his other pseudo ally, the wererat boss...
As Gary Gygax said, "wheels within wheels."
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One weak point I've found with this AP, and that's how the group gets a sense of impending doom, and how to work it into the adventure. How are they supposed to know, after Devil's Elbow, that the drow can pull of a world ending collision? If they can, why haven't they? I know this is difficult to do, but somehow the PC's need to experience that they are in a race against time - and they will die if they fail. That being said, they need some kind of sign or portent that they better move fast, and cooperate with the elves in finding out what they need to know.
James:
While I agree with your observation with regards to information that is available to the characters, I think that the players might understand rather quickly what the AP is about - after all, you've got drow, you've got meteors, and the AP's title is a dead giveaway. Connecting the three on a meta-level is just a matter of time.
That being said: There isn't really anything that can be done to increase the 'timer' feeling of the first adventures, I think. After all, if you increase the scope of the adventure too fast (lots of meteors, everywhere!) the party will begin to wonder why the available high-level characters do nothing to stop the impending catastrophe. The speed at which SD is building seems right to me overall, but maybe something could be done about in-character knowledge by providing more opportunities for Knowledge checks.
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James:
While I agree with your observation with regards to information that is available to the characters, I think that the players might understand rather quickly what the AP is about - after all, you've got drow, you've got meteors, and the AP's title is a dead giveaway. Connecting the three on a meta-level is just a matter of time.
That being said: There isn't really anything that can be done to increase the 'timer' feeling of the first adventures, I think. After all, if you increase the scope of the adventure too fast (lots of meteors, everywhere!) the party will begin to wonder why the available high-level characters do nothing to stop the impending catastrophe. The speed at which SD is building seems right to me overall, but maybe something could be done about in-character knowledge by providing more opportunities for Knowledge checks.
That seems like an excellent idea. Maybe a series of medium to high (DC 25) knowledge arcana or religion checks will give them the feeling that the moment of no return is approaching fast. No specifics, just a sense that forces are moving quickly towards the end. It obviously been designed so that no warnings will come from gods or other forces.
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First of all, thanks for this thread. There are already a number of seriously helpful posts on padding out Second Darkness on these forums – e.g. I love the one which talks about the Winter Council and the final battle in volume 17 – and as someone who is quite disappointed with 2D as well, these are incredibly helpful to me. With the purely personal negativity out of the way, here some of my comments.
You asked to identify the weak spots, i.e. the very points I as a DM would alter. Here they come. Spoilers beware – players should read no further!
First, general points of weakness.
The whole adventure path progression nullifies most player input; where it doesn’t do so, it reduces player input to combat achievements. To explain.
A lot of the seriously crucial information (i.e. information of the sort that propels the events in the adventure path) isn’t in fact obtained by the player characters but by their NPC allies. Kuawa and the Shin’tora get “news”; Shalelu does the scouting for the PCs, etc. A lot of this information – e.g., scouting of Mierani forest – could in principle be obtained by the PC. Those are the spots I re-plan when running second darkness (I’m mightily behind in schedule – still running Rise of the Runelords!).
Why should the PC obtain this information, you may ask. Well, first, player input is the most crucial element to a good RPG session. If player input is continually nullified or reduced in central spots where it need not be (even within the constraints of an adventure path) my players don’t want to come back to the table. So if they constantly have to act on information provided by other people, the players will feel like side kicks. What’s worse – and that’s my next point, really – is that if players don’t get crucial information they can’t make crucial decisions (where, again, crucial means: central for the adventure path’s progression). For instance, how come that an elven mage has to research the ritual to transform the PC into drow in volume 16? Why can’t a wizard PC obtain that information? Why not have the PC find notes by a drow wizard the PC defeated who’s been trying to create a similar ritual if to opposite effect – transform drow into elves so as to infiltrate elven society (the classic Trojan horse we get in #16) – with a daunting final line in the journal (“I hope the elves never backfire this plan onto us!”). Add more info and clues, and sooner or later the PC will find some of the drow corpses they’ve gathered in Celwynvian come in handy….
That was just an example – its details need to be worked out, of course (no minor feat), but I hope you get my drift. Just to repeat my main point: if the PC don’t obtain crucial information they can’t make crucial decisions based on that information. Second Darkness has, in my opinion, a DM-conservative information policy: withhold crucial info from the PCs so they can’t act on it the wrong way (or, not act on it at all). Because, if they do act the wrong way, the adventure path derails. Second Darkness goes to extremes to avoid derailment. In volume 15, Kaerishiel literally “leads” the PCs from one building in the camp to the other; the order of the buildings the PC capture is inessential (so sandbox play is purely delusional here, similar in volume 14) – and, to top it, in volume 16 the PC become slaves: all they do, they are expected to do at an NPC’s bidding. That’s the perfect image to what I think is overdone in 2nd Darkness: the PCs are on a tight leash, a leash held by the NPCs and (thus) the DM. That’s a serious issue which Paizo’s competent module designers may wish to rethink – I’m certainly out of depth to address the issue on a general level. Suffice it to say, that I was absolutely horrified by James Wyatt's entry on the "information imperative" in the 4th edition DMG - which basically said: spoonfeed your players all and any information required to propel a module - since the analogoue for combat (let the PC win any battle that's crucial for the module to go on) is insane, and since, most importantly, the whole issue this imperative seeks to redress can be solved more elegantly by a greater number of clues (eradicating the need for the PCs to find the ONE and ONLY clue to propel the event-based adventure).
Now for my other main beef. That’s to do with information dispense as well. Ever since Burnt Offerings I’ve held gripes for the shtick “the PC kill an NPC and obtain info from her journal – because, in Golarion, every NPC carries an (insert strings) unrealistically revealing diary TM”. The adventure path kicked off with, not one, but TWO drow who held such diaries. The PC were solely meant to kill the drow so as to hand over the diaries (i.e., the PC weren’t even expected to do something else with the diaries! – see above). That’s not what I want my players to do. I don’t want them to go around killing to obtain information. I want them to use clever stratagems, trying to bring minions over their side, etc., and thus get crucial information. No more baddies carrying diaries, please!
So there’s quite a need to address the information of how the DM dispenses crucial information to his players in this adventure path. Again, I haven’t found the holy grail here but started to look at other systems and modules – in particular, Call of Cthulhu, which itself cares a lot for players obtaining clues. A fairly new spin off, Trail of Cthulhu RPG, even developed its own system to make the obtaining of clues a more interesting and challenging experience. Paizo has neglected this aspect entirely ever since Richard Pett wrote a singularly helpful sidebar in Pathfinder 2 (Overhearing the Cultists). This, too, is an issue which, if addressed by Paizo’s module designers, would considerably improve the adventure paths and bring them more up to standard with e.g. the CoC module Masks of N. which James Jacobs reportedly (and rightly :) ) holds as the apex in module design.
Now for Second Darkness specifics. I’m considering running the modules not as a continuous adventure path because the modules are in my opinion so poorly connected. I think the individual modules are quite good once you strip them of the belaboured need to have this vast UBERPLOT (thanks for the phrase to Wes Schneider). Here some points of detail.
1. Volume 13. Get rid of the Kwuawa and the Shindira. They don’t add anything to the actual adventure focused on the casino. Replace the drow with Lil Lavender in the Pathfinder Companion. You’ll be surprised how well Lil’s backstory works with the module – she’s much better suited to manipulate the module’s main NPC the PC interact with. I almost suspect Greg originally wrote up Lil’s story as the BBEG for the module before Paizo decided to insert this module into the metaplot that is Second Darkness. I think #13 is one of the best modules ever, and it only gets better if DMed on its own terms.
2. Volume 14. Not much to say. Again, the drow at the end feels as an artificially inserted element which doesn’t sit smoothly with the rest of the adventure. Since I feel the main idea of the module – basically, Lovecraft’s “Colour out of Space” – requires a locale the PCs are at that point already familiar with, and #14 decided to locate that Lovecraft plot idea in a (for the PC) unfamiliar location, I’d much rather take that basic plot idea, reread Lovecraft’s story (which I’m in fact doing) and transport its elements into Riddleport itself. Complete with the bestiary of #14 (thanks for the cool aliens!) there’s plenty to haunt Riddleport’s flora and fauna (more on which you’ll find in #13). But the majority of #14 won’t see much use at my game table. That said, I think the island is pretty cool for another follow up to Riddle Port. Work out the idea of the sirene, add in more pirates, and we may get a decent pirate module. Also, the cypher mages may be a little more sinister and have not so noble plans on their own.
3. Volume 15. Ok, this is where the actual adventure path kicks off. The PC needed to obtain two diaries – all else is pretty much peripheral. That’s not a good intro to volume 15 in my opinion. I think the horselords at the beginning make for a much better intro – they have been experiencing problems with the elves and ask the PC to investigate. That means that once the PCs enter Mierani forest, there’s a lot of freedom for you as a DM. Personally, I’ll be running this in Greyhawk’s Celene forest – the story fits really well (Shin’tora = Celene’s elven knights who oppose their queen’s isolationist policy – a policy which rationalizes the claustrophobic Mierani feel really well). And, best of all, this means I can forego the railroad of #16 in favour of Erelhei-Cinlu (see Dragon magazine #298 or the 3.5 supplement Drow of the Underdark) for a seriously, seriously classic D&D experience. That said, on to #16.
4. #16: I will forego all the contrived plot (I actually felt sorry the brilliant Wes Schneider had to showcase his considerable module design talents within such tight constraints). #16 is one huge skill challenge – how can the PC advance in a drow house? Most important: realize that it’s totally unimportant WHICH drow house the PC choose to join -Wes’ material translates into any drow house. So I get rid of the NPC who needs to “lead” the PC (again!) into the right spot, to the next NPC (slave mother) who instructs them for one whole module – get rid off all these NPCs and replace them by NPCs who are there when the PCs decide to approach, with more elbow room for the PC to do what they want, negotiate terms of settlement and so on. Most of all: since #16 is a skill challenge, you should communicate the goal and the terms of the skill challenge to the players. This was completely missed by Wes in #16 I feel. The PC never know in advance WHY they’re working day in, day out in this drow house. They have no clue that they advancing their station to meet a drow who can provide them with the information they need. So that needs to be made transparent as well. Also, they will receive advance intelligence of how (roughly) they can increase their station – i.e., what it means to pass from servitor tier 1 to 2 to 3. Again, I felt this was missed out in the information provided for the players. What’s more though, since I run #15 and #16 as a huge one-off module, there’s no need for the players to run away from the drow city so early. So that plot contrivement can go as well. Instead, the players stay there to obtain the information THEY think will help the elves of the Mierani/Celene forest. What’s more, since Erelhei-Cinlu, unlike Paizo’s Z. City, tolerates the presence of non-drow (another favour of not having to implement the Second Darkness UBERPLOT), I don’t need to have the PC transform into drow. They can still do so if they wish – see above: I’ll have the PC discover information which enables them to form such a decision SHOULD THEY WISH – but they won’t derail things.
So much for #13-16. I haven’t looked into #17 yet, but currently there’s plenty on my plate to work #13-16 to my tastes. While I’ve composed this post in a critical tone, here are two important provisos on my part in closing.
First, I seriously enjoyed #13-16. They provide TONS of brilliant campaign material to work with. Just because I think some of the parts therein – in particular, those which force the uberplot onto the individual modules – are poorly executed, doesn’t change the fact that a lot of material here outshines a considerable number of previous Paizo modules. #13 in particular is my all time favourite so far – but then I’m a Greg Vaughan fanboy, so that’s no surprise.
Second, this post is my personal, subjective opinion, and as such, won’t resonate with a lot of people. Nor do I expect so, or expect that this criticism is taken seriously on an objective level – it need not. Paizo has taken its own design decisions for the modules (see my general problem diagnosis above), but I suspect they are aware why they have chosen them. I don’t think Paizo has made bad decisions, I just wanted to say that I don’t see myself making those decisions at the game table. That’s all. Happy gaming to all!
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First of all, thanks for this thread.
Thanks for your thoughts Windjammer, I for one really like this Adventure Path BUT I understand your concerns and have to agree most DMs have to 'pad' and fine tune the chapters for SD a bit more than in the previous APs. But I'm cool with that because there is a WEALTH of advice and information in these very threads -- Maybe James and crew just wanted to give us all something to do ; )
I'll read the rest of your post more thoroughly a little later after some sleep but wanted to comment on this
For instance, how come that an elven mage has to research the ritual to transform the PC into drow in volume 16? Why can’t a wizard PC obtain that information? Why not have the PC find notes by a drow wizard the PC defeated who’s been trying to create a similar ritual if to opposite effect – transform drow into elves so as to infiltrate elven society (the classic Trojan horse we get in #16) – with a daunting final line in the journal (“I hope the elves never backfire this plan onto us!”).
I believe the spell is a little higher than the current level of spells that can be cast by the characters as they prepare to infiltrate the Drow city and a spell of that magnitude would certainly take some serious time to research, even if the players managed to find a nearly complete work as you suggested, in fact in my campaign when I get to that part of the story I plan to:
A. Make the spell in question one level higher than listed because it is quite a powerful spell.
B. Have the caster be a human wizard 17 with a focus on necromancy; he is a preexisting character I have had who pops up now and then, sort of a Gandalf but far less of a combatant and more of a free agent, being CN and all and even older than Ezren. This works out for me because the characters can remain as Drow a little longer. It WAS originally a spell devised by the Drow. Said wizard does break down what was orginally a Drow spell because...
C. I think I may very well have the elves who turn into Drow be actually Drow from the very start, but who in turn are deep agents sent to wreak havoc within the Elven kingdoms after many, many centuries of attrition. The events of SD being the culmination of nearly 200+ years of toil in this very endeavor. It will also in part explain why the Winter Council is in near shambles.
The last is a rough idea, I'm not sure yet if I want to run with it, but will do so if I ever run this AP in Greyhawk.
And now off to bed I go.
Honestly the biggest metaplot problem I have is the "Drow are boogeymen, oh wait there not!" approach that is taken. Now this isn't a gripe at Paizo as much as at players. See my problem is that drow have become so famous that setting them up as boogeymen is nigh impossible and then once revealed the party doesnt seem shocked. I basically had to just explain to my players that they would be shocked at the sight of a drow, and it still didn't have a great effect. Otherwise I've really enjoyed this ap.
Windjammer,
thank you very much for your excellent post. The concerns you mention overlap with a lot of the issues I have with the Second Darkness AP, but as I stated in the original post: this thread isn't meant to trample Paizo's effort, but rather to collect suggestions on how to improve the game experience for everyone.
In that vein: thanks again for your ideas. I especially like the idea of having the PCs themselves research the transformative spell. Maybe it could be designed as a kind of ritual the PCs discover and then enact with the help of a few elven mages; this way, the "high-level spell" restriction could be overcome.
Or just make it a scroll, but that would be kind of cheesy ;).
Please, keep on posting, everyone. This thread is just getting better and better.
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Windjammer,
thank you very much for your excellent post. The concerns you mention overlap with a lot of the issues I have with the Second Darkness AP, but as I stated in the original post: this thread isn't meant to trample Paizo's effort, but rather to collect suggestions on how to improve the game experience for everyone.
Absolutely. Finding points to improve on in an adventure path is (as your OP made clear) often preceded by identifying its weaker spots. Frustration and sore points from previous disappointments on similar points of concern certainly made me more sensitive to find some of those weak spots :) It's the odd mixture of frustration and the pleasure of working on Second Darkness that I found quite interesting. It's a mixed blessing and I hoped that I could convey both the enthusiasm and the frustration I've experienced with Second Darkness so far in equal measure :)
You guys are right, and the transformation-into-drow ritual would have to be tweaked in terms of level requirements before a PC can perform it. I certainly like the idea of a PC-NPC cooperation - that's actually in the best spirit of all (players and DM) and conveys (or reaffirms) a feeling for the necessity for the PC to cooperate with the elves and vice versa - the need for teamwork. On the latter, that's an issue I think certainly merits improvement as is. I didn't much like the idea in #17 that the only reason the PC go into Zirnakaynin instead of the elves is that the elves think the PC are better fighters. That's exactly the impression that I don't want to give my players: that the NPCs (in short: the module) does the brainwork for the PC - gather information, form decisisions - and then the PCs do the combat stuff.
See what I mean? I work on the things I don't like, and in doing so I do have to say what I don't like and why - as I said, it's important to realize that one's own sentiments on what is good or not so good in Second Darkness need not be widely shared or enjoy any objective, important legitimacy. They don't. It's all amateur DMs here discussing their personal preferences :)
Onto less princpled issues. The main thing I want to do to Seoond Darkness is to amp up player input and player accomplishment. So for instance, when the PC go into the Shadowplane in #16 and battle Nolveniss, they undergo a huge battle to secure a gate. Guess what - I make that gate the very one which will let them into the Drow City later on (in my version: Erelhi-Cinlu). The idea is that here, too, the PC discover magical means to manipulate the stuff they find and fought for - in the case at hand, the drow gate which leads into the Armageddon Echo. The PC will learn how to link it to a location near the drow city. Voia-la - as a DM you've rewarded your players' efforts by directly building the adventure path progression ON the player characters' accomplishments (as opposed to ROUND them). You make them feel that what they do is seriously important to how things unfold. That's the sort of thing I'm after. Here's a post that conveys that aim really well, by a man I admire greatly - Jeff Rients. Enjoy!
I like the idea of introducing a short side-track containing a drow antagonist that has already mastered the Ritual for Looking Like an Elf™ and then letting the party expend the energy in reverse engineering it. Of course I am making a wild assumption that my party will have a PC that is even remotely capable of doing this.
Right now that IS NOT looking like a safe bet. The party is looking like it is going to contain a monk, war priest, fighter, and a bard. This is my group’s attempt to “cover all the bases”. I plan on giving them a lot of really nice arcane scrolls (from the wizard list) and plenty of locked boxes and traps. Educating parties is such fun.
CJ
One possibility would be to drop in said drow wizard into the building with the bard and her lab. It would be a relatively easy matter of connecting the two plot parts - after all, who knows what crazy experiments they were cooking up in there? - and it's a way to give the PCs something else to do with the laboratory instead of just destroying it (that is, use the chemicals for the transformative ritual).
Maybe add a trapdoor and cellar to the building, and have the drow wizard holed up in there. But it would have to be fairly obvious to find, since - honestly - looking like drow is the best bet for the players as long as you are using Zirnakayin as written.
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One possibility would be to drop in said drow wizard into the building with the bard and her lab. It would be a relatively easy matter of connecting the two plot parts - after all, who knows what crazy experiments they were cooking up in there? - and it's a way to give the PCs something else to do with the laboratory instead of just destroying it (that is, use the chemicals for the transformative ritual).
Nicely done.
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I like the idea of introducing a short side-track containing a drow antagonist that has already mastered the Ritual for Looking Like an Elf™ and then letting the party expend the energy in reverse engineering it. Of course I am making a wild assumption that my party will have a PC that is even remotely capable of doing this.
In that case running with the above idea - that the elves need the PC's cooperation to develop the spell themselves - could be your safest bet. In particular, I'm thinking of making the transformation ritual into something fairly low level but with hilarious material component requirements - i.e. such an exotic, dangerous-to-retrieve item that the elves would never have a chance of obtaining it. D&D assumes that there are tons of bat guano and gems around, but surely material components can be far more exotic than that.
If that still feels like the elves do all the work - here: send the PCs on a mission to obtain the material component of a spell they've worked out already - a DM could always precede the "obtain the component" quest by a fairly difficult riddle. I.e., the elves don't understand themselves how the ritual works - i.e. can't cast it - not least because they find the reference to the material component really obscure. Enter the PCs: heroes who have accumulated just such knowledge in the earlier modules, or who may have the very skills required to figure out (key elements in) the puzzle. Same principle as above: major plot advancement should hinge on the PC's abilities and actions.
So (without doing message board necromancy), is there any speculated information on Brinewall, Wormwood Hall, Gruankus, or the Rift of Niltak beyond what is known from RL3: Hook Mountain Massacre?
- THE ELVEN CHOO-CHOO TRAIN: As with some others on these boards, I am having a slight problem with how the whole 'now you are drow, go' part is handled. I can especially see problems with players whose characters have 'mercenary' motivations. Any suggestions on how to make spying for the elves more attractive for any kind of character?
Well, let me put myself in the frame of mind of a more "mercenary" type of character, as you put it, especially one that might make their home in Riddleport:
"Let's get this straight, I get to put on the dead flesh of a dark elf and waltz into a whole city of them, a place that until now was a desperately kept secret of the elves? So I get to go where no one else in Golarion has ever gone and poke around to my heart's content in a city where murder, theft, and all manner of other unwholesome activities are likely an everyday occurence, since these elves are completely immoral and corrupt?"
*evil grin*
"Well, what are we waiting for? Start with the spell already!"
In my campaign, Saul has hated the PCs ever since they foiled his fake-robbery attempt. Obviously, he has to act like he's grateful to avoid suspicion, but his every thought is of revenge. Every mission he sends them on, from Lymas Sweed to the Foamrunner to the Splithog Pauper, is with the hope that they won't return. He tells them that it's a simple errand to run and is shocked - SHOCKED! - at the dangers they end up encountering. He's even behind the raid on his own establishment, trying to get the PCs killed. It's just not until the Boneyard ambush that the PCs will have any evidence of his true feelings. If I get a chance, I'll even give him a "and I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling kids" deathbed monologue.
That link was just plain awesome!
I LOVED reading all of the suggestions for Age of Worms, so I'm happy there is another thread like this for Second Darkness.
I am looking forward to running this AP and any suggestions from the DM's who've been there is always appreciated!
I've just started running the Second Darkness. What I'm doing to pad the Adventure Path is to incorporate The Shackled City into our game too.
So, on our first session the PCs foiled the Gold Goblin robbery. Oddly, they only agreed to work for Saul on a case by case basis as enforcers, and refused to have anything to do with the day-to-day running of the casino. So, the next morning they went to St. Caspieran's Salvation (substituted as the Orphanage in Shackled City). The cleric had been asked to stop by and try to cheer everyone up over the missing children. After all, children go missing all the time in Riddleport. But in addition, the wizard was a friend of one of the missing children, so added reason to investigate. I'm converting Jhazridune into a forgotten Gnome District of Riddleport, instead of a full-blown city. And once the players finish with this, they'll return to the Gold Goblin to encounter An Unfriendly Warning and then move on to A Missing Employee.
I'm currently thinking of...
... directly beneath Riddleport. Oh, and beneath a tiny little dungeon. Basically, what I want to create is a kind of Ptolus-like situation, with catacombs/layers of dungeons beneath Riddleport. The players might explore one or two levels during the initial adventure (I'm thinking of having Depora hide down there), then there's something blocking their way. Later, that way will open up. Rinse, repeat once or twice.
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There is a picture in Pathfinder 13 where the iconic monk is saving a child from a burning/toppling building. It made me think of this ‘side trek’ which is a skill based adventure that actually works well with some of the Blot’s phenomena.
The fire in this adventure can be started by very small but combustible meteorites that pound Riddleport and the pcs have to run around to help where they can (or alternatively, the meteorites smash into some fire lit lanterns that cause the blaze); it works well because this is a skill based adventure that does not put low level pcs in overly dangerous situations (not that you would let them know that).
Fire and flood; the gods are not too fond of pirate ridden Riddleport !
Love the idea, Dance of Ruin! I also would like to return to Riddleport during the course of the adventure, and this is a great way to do it! Maybe part of the secret of the Cyphergate is to conceal this entrance, and the PCs discover in the course of the adventure a way to manipulate the runes to open the way....
I plan on using the following "side treks" for Second Darkness...
Death in Freeport, 1st level
Shadow in the Sky, 1-3rd level (4th level at the end)
Afternoon Outing, 2nd level (flashback)
Holiday in the Sun, 2nd level
Terror in Freeport, 2-5th level
Children of the Void, 4-7th level
Thieves and Liars, 4-5th level
Madness in Freeport, 4th level or better
Vengeance in Freeport, 6-7th level
Gangs of Freeport, 5-7th level
Crisis in Freeport, 7-9th level
Armageddon Echo, 7-10th level
Dark Wings, 9th level
Hell in Freeport, 10th level
Endless Night, 10-12th level
A Memory of Darkness, 12-13th level
Descent into Midnight, 14th level
The timing of some of these may vary...and I think I need some stuff toward the end to "pad" things out.
I started with the group on Monday and Death in Freeport has integrated very well so far.
CJ
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I plan on using the following "side treks" for Second Darkness...
I plan on using the Freeport 'side treks' as well, might I ask what
Afternoon Outing, 2nd level (flashback), Holiday in the Sun, 2nd level, Thieves and Liars, 4-5th level, Dark Wings, 9th level, are ?
Thank you, and thanks to the 'padding out team'; The Paddies.
I am an inexperienced DM and currently about half way through "Shadow in the Sky", and have found the module difficult to run, simply due to the open endedness. I'm not used to having to pad so much, and have had difficulty keeping the party focused. Riddleport has so much potential for adventure, and i've tried to allow the PC's as much 'sandbox' time as they like, but they've pretty much stayed focused on doing Saul's missions, and keeping the GG running smoothly. The ideas in this thread are good and helpful, I just don't have access to Freeport, or a lot of other content to use to pad the story.
Any info, tips, resources, or advise to a novice DM would be appreciated. I considered starting a new thread on this topic, but there is so much info already flowing here.... ;)
SB
Set Piece: The Trouble with Magic (for Shadow in the Sky or other Riddleport-based adventure path; Careful, its 4.4MB) -> CLICK HERE
As I mentioned before in another thread, I have been hacking away at a "set piece" in my (very little) spare time. It's been a humbling experience. Those that crank these things out week in and week out have my appreciation and awe.
While I was going to finish the whole thing then post it, I came to the realization that with all of the words, I might need a little editing help as I go - perhaps this will keep the reviewing work to smaller, more manageable chunks.
Some background - The locale is available to be used as a traditional magic item sale/purchase scenario with some role-playing opportunities or can be used to set up a foe or run as an "adventure".
Some known issues: I need to put richer detail surrounding the issues and motivations of The Squint and Jezebeth. I have perhaps too much detail I want to put in (connecting Nocticula, the Writ, and Voodoo magic) which is why I shied away from too much in the front section so far. Also, if the party decides to try a "screw it, we attack" method, with everyone in the shoppe present, the EL will quickly blow into TPK land. I am re-working the earlier versions of Constantine and Jez ATM. Another thing, I am not totally zen with the whole "I go out and buy 12 wands today" sort of thing. While I don't want to role-play every single little interaction, and I like magic to be accessible, I also like magic to have some sense of rarity - e.g. More like Greyhawk (as I imagine it) than the poles defined by the Forgotten Realms or Iron Kingdoms.
If anyone is interested in providing feedback, with the understanding that it is clearly unfinished and a work in progress, please do. I'll incorporate any cool ideas people have if they work and want me to put them in. I'll try to keep updating the pdf until I start having a problem with uploading it (which will cause me to reformat for file size; goodbye cool background image..).
While I will post this in two threads - please reply in this thread; I will continue to post conversions in the other thread -> CLICK HERE
Enjoy,
~D
... and once again, daemonslye takes the cake. I'll definitely give this a read (and report back with anything that comes to mind).
Great suggestions, everybody - please keep them coming!