Most Common "On-The-Fly" Conversions From 3.5E to PFRPG for DMs?


General Discussion (Prerelease)


As a new PFRPG DM, I'm looking for tips on quick conversions at the table for monsters and statted NPCs using skills, feats, spells, etc. that have been updated or replaced in the PFRPG.

A quick way to calculate an NPC's perception check, for example, would be very helpful. Thanks.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My take on monster skills is:

1) Note down which skills the monster has in the respective 3.5 book. Consider these as trained class skills. Eg. if the monster has Spot, Search or Listen listed in 3.5 statblock, then it has Perception as class skill in PFRPG.

2) Take a look how many skill points / HD the monster has, calculate the total (Beta p. 296)

3) Distribute the skill points among the class skills, remembering that no skill can have more points than HD of the creature.

4) Add +3 to each skill (for trained class skill), +X from attribute and +Y from racial/magic/armor penalty/whatever.

5) Voila !

Sovereign Court

I assume you can glance at the BAB and add the STR bonus to calc CMB, accounting for size if necessary.

Voila!


Elijah Snow wrote:
A quick way to calculate an NPC's perception check, for example, would be very helpful. Thanks.

The way we did it was just to look at the total modifier for the NPC or monster, and then port that straight across, to a maximum of the NPC's level or creature's HD. Skills are basically on the same scale and, in game, you don't want to be fiddling with anything more complicated than you have to. What matters is the outcome of the roll, not the numbers - the characters can't see the numbers floating over their heads like a video game.

Of course, if you have time before hand then you can work out all the details with a full conversion. But that's really not strictly necessary, unless you're a stickler for the rules.

Peace,

tfad


Elijah Snow wrote:

As a new PFRPG DM, I'm looking for tips on quick conversions at the table for monsters and statted NPCs using skills, feats, spells, etc. that have been updated or replaced in the PFRPG.

A quick way to calculate an NPC's perception check, for example, would be very helpful. Thanks.

If you're really running on the fly, my chosen way to convert quickly for new skills is simply to take the highest modifier the monster has of the skills that were combined into the new one. For example, if the monster has Spot +8 and Listen +4, I give them Perception +8.

For feats, it's good to have a few vanilla feats to add onto a monster to make up for the extra feats they now should get. Mostly it's a small amount; even with 12 HD you're only giving them two more feats. In my opinion, the easiest ones to add on are Toughness, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, Great Fortitude, and Weapon Focus, as these simply add straight bonuses and do not change the way the creature behaves.

For spells, I would just ask your players to be understanding if any inconsistencies arise that they notice. Since Pathfinder is still in the Beta Playtest (and has not been out very long), I think most players should be willing to cut you slack as a GM.


On the fly:
1. Change monster hitpoints from average to 60% or 75%.
1. Add number of hitpoints equal to number of HD.
2. Add one or two max skills.
3. Replace highest of the two (Listen, Spot) with Perception.
4. Replace highest of the two (Move Silently, Hide) with Stealth.
5. Add one more feat if the monster uses feats.
6. Replace Grapple with CMB.
7. If the monster has Improved Grab, add +4 to CMB, and monster may use one natural attack instead of standard action to grapple.
8. See 7. for Swallow Whole.

Done.

Regards,
Ruemere

PS. CMB encounter rules allow for greater number of monsters in one encounter. Don't worry too much about accuracy.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

While I'm converting classed NPCs ahead of time for my games, I am also leaving most monsters completely alone. If it comes up that I need to use a stealth, perception or CMB check, I do them on the fly. For skills, as has been mentioned above, I am taking the better of the two scores for the purposes of determining the consolidated skill rank. For CMB, if the creature's medium it's generally the same as grapple. If it has Imp. Grapple, CMB is -2 from 3.5 stats. If it's large or small, the size modifier is now smaller than it was in 3.5, I tend to leave feats alone. If a monster is a BBEG or something then I convert it using the monster rules in the Beta as if I were building it from scratch, but otherwise I have found that monsters are among the more backwards compatible of elements in the PRPG.


For on-the-fly Grapple to CMB conversions, I have a little note stuck to my screen that summarises the basic changes. Add or subtract the following numbers from the 3.5 Grapple score to get the base CMB value.

FINE +8
DIMINUTIVE +8
TINY +6
SMALL +3
MEDIUM 0
LARGE -3
HUGE -6
GARGANTUAN -8
COLOSSAL -8

Then adjust as needed for feats/abilities like Improved Grab etc.

For feats, I did a table that compares the differences between feats at levels 1-30. Add the following number of feats when converting a 3.5 statblock to a PFRPG statblock. (These amounts are not cumulative.)

Level 1-4: -
Level 5: Add 1 feat
Level 6: -
Level 7-10: Add 1 feat
Level 11: Add 2 feats
Level 12: Add 1 feat
Level 13-16: Add 2 feats
Level 17: Add 3 feats
Level 18: Add 2 feats
Level 19-22: Add 3 feats
Level 23: Add 4 feats
Level 24: Add 3 feats
Level 25-28: Add 4 feats
Level 29: Add 5 feats
Level 30: Add 4 feats

For skills, I use the Alpha 1 system (aka the simple skill system from UA), so I just rebuild from scratch. Doesn't take more than a minute or so.

These are the changes I find myself referring to the most. The rest I tend to just play as written. Sometimes I'll add a hit point kicker, though, if I want the NPC to have a bit more staying power ;-)


You all are a goldmine of information. I can't thank you enough. It looks like on-the-fly conversion isn't that big a deal.


I'm lazier than most.

1) Calculate CMB.
2) Max out HP.
3) Use the skills unchanged.

I can't justify doing the math for skills before each game. The numbers are arbitrary enough that I don't think it affects the CR except in fringe cases with highly skilled enemies. If it gets to the point where I can't just use the old skills unmodified without breaking the game, then Pathfinder RPG creates more work than it saves.

Luckily, I haven't had any skill roll catastrophes yet. So I recommend just rolling the old skills where appropriate.

Grand Lodge

lol you guys will probably hate the way I am doing conversions after seeing all the work everyone else is putting in.

Skills: Would it be dramatic for the monster to succeed his test right now? If yes, then I add enough points to my die roll for him to make it. If not, then I look at the roll and whatever is listed on the sheet and it it is close it succeeds, if not close it fails.

CMB: Again, if dramatic moment for it to pass, I add enough for it to succeed that die roll. If not dramatic, I add BAB and STR Mod and since I normally use Medium critters, I don't bother with size.

Feats: I assume the critter added feats that made up for differences in die roll fudges I used. :)

I am not a strict by the die GM. Rather I feel the results should add to the drama of the story.

I will not kill a PC with fudged rolls, but have no problem bashing the PCs up a bit.


What I do:

  • Prep - look in the adventure for sorcerers and clerics, and pick bloodlines and domains ahead of time, then write down the appropriate powers. This is something I've found difficult to do on the fly and try to get done before game start. When quickly converting wizards, I just make them universalists.
  • Add six hit points to all the monsters, give undead a charisma bonus, and favored class bonuses to monsters. Easy to handwave on the fly. If the monster has the toughness feat, give them +1 HP/die to represent the new feat.
  • I created a quick table to help me figure out how many new feats creatures got:

    1st-4th - no change
    5th - +1 feat
    6th - no change
    7th-10th - +1 feat
    11th-+2 feats
    12th=+1 feat
    13th-16th=+2 feats
    17th=+3 feats
    18th=+2 feats
    19th=+3 feats

    I've been able to just throw in feats on the fly. Usually I give Toughness, Power Attack, or Improved Critical. If I have time, I give the monsters new Pathfinder feats to test them out. Picking feats is the part that makes most of the difference - I gave dire bears Improved Critical and I should have given them Power Attack, and I gave fire giants Improved Critical (Greatsword) and almost killed off my test party.

  • When guessing perception most monsters seem to split one 'skill' worth of Listen + Spot so I just give them Perception of HD+3+wisdom if Listen + Spot is about the same as their hit dice.
  • I don't always calculate CMB unless the monsters are intended to grapple or bull rush.


I pretty much wing it, do it on the fly. I don't mind if it's not 100% accurate. Close enough is close enough:

I don't sweat skill ranks too much: If they have listed bonuses for skills that are merged, they get the best of these bonuses for the new skill. I might give them ranks in new skills, if I find they are in the need for skills right now.

If I think they really need the extra feats, I just assume they used the easy, fun ones. Tougness, weapon focus. So I just up the attack bonuses, hit points, saves. If I feel it would be real nasty for the critter to have a nasty feat like improved sunder, it give it that.

For CMB, I just use the listed value, adjusted for the new size mods. (Differences for large/small, huge/tiny, gargantuan/diminutive, colossal/fine are 3/6/8/8)


Krome wrote:

lol you guys will probably hate the way I am doing conversions after seeing all the work everyone else is putting in.

Skills: Would it be dramatic for the monster to succeed his test right now? If yes, then I add enough points to my die roll for him to make it. If not, then I look at the roll and whatever is listed on the sheet and it it is close it succeeds, if not close it fails.

CMB: Again, if dramatic moment for it to pass, I add enough for it to succeed that die roll. If not dramatic, I add BAB and STR Mod and since I normally use Medium critters, I don't bother with size.

Feats: I assume the critter added feats that made up for differences in die roll fudges I used. :)

I am not a strict by the die GM. Rather I feel the results should add to the drama of the story.

I will not kill a PC with fudged rolls, but have no problem bashing the PCs up a bit.

Spot on Krome. That's how it's done!


toyrobots wrote:

I'm lazier than most.

1) Calculate CMB.
2) Max out HP.
3) Use the skills unchanged.

I can't justify doing the math for skills before each game. The numbers are arbitrary enough that I don't think it affects the CR except in fringe cases with highly skilled enemies. If it gets to the point where I can't just use the old skills unmodified without breaking the game, then Pathfinder RPG creates more work than it saves.

Luckily, I haven't had any skill roll catastrophes yet. So I recommend just rolling the old skills where appropriate.

I also don't bother converting skills. It doesn't really matter if the monster has no perception, but has a listen skill if it is there just for a single combat. If it is a long-term villain, of course, that is another matter, but that is hardly an "on the fly" conversion.

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