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Hopefully others can use this thread to clarify questions arising in this adventure. If you happen to see another thread, please link post a link in this one to try and keep things tied together.
Chapter 1: Howl of the Carrion King
Chapter 2: House of the Beast
Chapter 3: The Jackal's Price
Chapter 4: The End of Eternity
Chapter 5: The Impossible Eye
Chapter 6: The Final Wish
You know the drill! Be sure to post back items that fit here.
Enjoy!
Father Zastoran is mentioned as being a red-headed halfling on page 10, but the page 12-13 write up and image are of a gray-haired human.
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Father Zastoran is mentioned as being a red-headed halfling on page 10, but the page 12-13 write up and image are of a gray-haired human.He's a human. The story about why he was once a halfling is long and boring. Ignore that mention of him being a halfling on page 10.
He's only a halfling in his "private" time ;)~
The peryton's attack bonuses are all wrong. For one thing, they're not listed for its claw attacks!
The peryton's attack line should read gore +9 (+5 BAB, +3 Str, +1 feat) and 2 claws +3 (+5 BAB, +3 Str, -5 secondary).
The weretiger's stats in the Set Piece adventure are strange. He's an afflicted lycanthrope, so he cannot precisely control his shapechanging, which is mentioned, but we're only given stats for his human and hybrid forms--if he takes X amount of damage, he should assume animal form, and it's a rather high DC on a Control Shape check to assume hybrid form. Likewise, he can still spread the curse of lycanthropy through his bite attack, which only natural lycanthropes can do. Should we assume that the curse on the punching dagger is such that it makes him a slightly different lycanthrope (defaults to hybrid form, can spread the curse)?
Creative Director
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The weretiger's stats in the Set Piece adventure are strange. He's an afflicted lycanthrope, so he cannot precisely control his shapechanging, which is mentioned, but we're only given stats for his human and hybrid forms--if he takes X amount of damage, he should assume animal form, and it's a rather high DC on a Control Shape check to assume hybrid form. Likewise, he can still spread the curse of lycanthropy through his bite attack, which only natural lycanthropes can do. Should we assume that the curse on the punching dagger is such that it makes him a slightly different lycanthrope (defaults to hybrid form, can spread the curse)?
Lycanthrope stat blocks are a menace. It's frustrating to stat up all three forms, so we usually don't bother since it's not a very good way to use up space. As a result, we generally only provide the stats for the lycanthrope in hybrid form, since that's the shape that most use for combat. The punching dagger curse is indeed what makes him somewhat different than most afflicted lycanthropes, in any event.
Almah is stated to seek out one of the PCs to tell her fortune. If the PC uses a divination spell to do so, what would it reveal?
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Creative Director
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Almah is stated to seek out one of the PCs to tell her fortune. If the PC uses a divination spell to do so, what would it reveal?
At 1st level, PCs shouldn't have access to divination. If they do, somehow, get ahold of the spell, I would use the results of the spell to encourage the PCs to take on the next logical part of the adventure, depending upon when in that adventure the divination occurred. Alternatively, I would do a more vague "Flames will rise from the past to engulf all you know" type thing to foreshadow the coming conflicts in the campaign.
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I'm having some trouble understanding the layout for the Pugwampi Hunt, the end of the investigation into the wagon fire.
If I've got this right, the cactus field is 25' wide, with the goat at the far end, right by a ravine. The pugwampi is 5' away from the goat, and since the whole field is inside his unluck radius, I assume that means the gremlin is 5' closer to the players.
So, why does it take characters 3 rounds to cross the cactus field? If their normal movement is 30', even moving at half speed (for balance checks) this should be 2 rounds. Is it difficult ground, plus the half speed for balance checks? If so, and we round down for movement, it seems it should take 5 rounds to get through (though 3 rounds is right at 7.5' of movement per round.) Barbarians would still get through in 3 rounds, though.
Drew Garrett
The weretiger's stats in the Set Piece adventure are strange.
(snip...) Should we assume that the curse on the punching dagger is such that it makes him a slightly different lycanthrope (defaults to hybrid form, can spread the curse)?
Those quirks are entirely my fault. When I was working on the adventure, I wanted the shapechanger to have some of the abilities of natural lycanthropes (especially hybrid form), but didn't want to give him the brutal 10/silver DR. The dagger's curse became my explanation, but there wasn't space to elaborate on it.
in part three, its said that there is a gnoll ranger with a peck of heyanas guarding the gates of Kelmarane (area b9, IIRC), but the creatures section describes a pair of gnolls with heyenas. which is to be used?
I'm guessing that the two gnolls is the official version, since they didn't have room for the stat-block of a gnoll ranger to be used for only this one encounter.
Me? I've got a 1st level gnoll ranger stat-block sitting around. I'll use it when I run this encounter, methinks.
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Creative Director
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in part three, its said that there is a gnoll ranger with a peck of heyanas guarding the gates of Kelmarane (area b9, IIRC), but the creatures section describes a pair of gnolls with heyenas. which is to be used?I'm guessing that the two gnolls is the official version, since they didn't have room for the stat-block of a gnoll ranger to be used for only this one encounter.
Me? I've got a 1st level gnoll ranger stat-block sitting around. I'll use it when I run this encounter, methinks.
Correct. We had to cut the gnoll rangers because we ran out of space, and replaced them with more normal gnolls.
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Creative Director
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I'm having some trouble understanding the layout for the Pugwampi Hunt, the end of the investigation into the wagon fire.
If I've got this right, the cactus field is 25' wide, with the goat at the far end, right by a ravine. The pugwampi is 5' away from the goat, and since the whole field is inside his unluck radius, I assume that means the gremlin is 5' closer to the players.
So, why does it take characters 3 rounds to cross the cactus field? If their normal movement is 30', even moving at half speed (for balance checks) this should be 2 rounds. Is it difficult ground, plus the half speed for balance checks? If so, and we round down for movement, it seems it should take 5 rounds to get through (though 3 rounds is right at 7.5' of movement per round.) Barbarians would still get through in 3 rounds, though.
Drew Garrett
We probably shouldn't have said how many rounds it'll take PCs to cross the field at all. We also probably should have put a map of the area in, but we didn't have the room or budget for a map.
In any case, it's best to just let the PCs decide how long it takes them to get across a 25' wide cactus field.
Is the chick on the cover Almah or Haleen?
I'm struggling a bit with one of the core premises for this adventure, and perhaps the AP.
The Kardswann creature block states under Tatics that "Kardswann may only be a shadow of his former glory, but he is still a formidable fighter and a dangerous foe."
So is the Janni now diminished compared to what he was in the Genie War? Do we have any idea why?
And does Xulthos know about the Carrion King on the surface above? If not, why is his thrall following him?
And finally, does Kardswann have to go back to be re-enthralled every week? Would the PCs observe this behavior if they watched carefully enough?
I've only read through the book thoroughly once, so maybe on a second read it will be clear. But if someone else has found some reasoning behind these points I'd love to hear them!
In the Set Piece... how did the chokers get into the room they're lairing in? In order to get to that chamber, they'd either have to:
1) Bypass (without damaging) two animated objects, make a save vs. illusory wall and find a secret door, without any ranks in Search and an Int of 4 or
2) Come in through the back and be able to cast arcane spells.
In the Set Piece... how did the chokers get into the room they're lairing in? In order to get to that chamber, they'd either have to:
1) Bypass (without damaging) two animated objects, make a save vs. illusory wall and find a secret door, without any ranks in Search and an Int of 4 or
2) Come in through the back and be able to cast arcane spells.
I haven't read the module yet but usually the answer for these questions is that they have been lairing there for quite some time, possibly as a trap before the other traps were engaged. Abberations can live quite a while on nothing.
In the Set Piece... how did the chokers get into the room they're lairing in?
A line was dropped from Area 1: A narrow shaft lies hidden among the rubble west of the site, found with a DC 18 Search check in the area. This narrow chimney leads to Area 7. Too tight for Medium creatures, even Small creatures must make a DC 12 Escape Artist check to navigate the shaft.
On an unrelated note, the map scale should be larger: Please treat each square as ten feet across.
In the Set Piece... how did the chokers get into the room they're lairing in?A line was dropped from Area 1: A narrow shaft lies hidden among the rubble west of the site, found with a DC 18 Search check in the area. This narrow chimney leads to Area 7. Too tight for Medium creatures, even Small creatures must make a DC 12 Escape Artist check to navigate the shaft.
On an unrelated note, the map scale should be larger: Please treat each square as ten feet across.
I had a feeling. Those alcoves that the Medium animated objects were supposed to be in looked like a tight squeeze.
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Creative Director
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I'm struggling a bit with one of the core premises for this adventure, and perhaps the AP.
We probably should have been a little more clear on this... but here's the explanation:
I am assuming that the Templars are rather powerful beings, given how they were instrumental in something as amazing as a war amongst Genies. So it seems to me implausible that one of them would fall to charms of a middling daemon that the soldiers of Katapesh managed to lock away twenty years ago. If Xulthos really is that much of a baddie, then it seems that legends of the battle to put him away would still be commonplace when the word "Kelmarane" is mentioned.
The source of the templar's power is directly from Nefeshti's wish magic, and as long as they remained part of the Templars of the Five Winds, they remained strong. It's after they defeated Jhavhul, but at the tremendous price of losing their leader's human lover, that things start to go bad. One by one, Templars turn away from their leader, and as they do so, the stipulations of the wish magic that kept them powerful fade as well. Further, not all of the templars are equally powerful. The main guy who ends up being tempted and corrupted by the daemon in "Howl of the Carrion King" was the least of the five templars, and when he turns his back on Nefeshti and the organizaiton, he grows even weaker... weak enough to succumb to the daemon's whispers.
And does Xulthos know about the Carrion King on the surface above? If not, why is his thrall following him?
Xulthos probably knows about the Carrion King, and uses the Carrion King as a proxy. The gnolls of Kelmarane already fear and respect the Carrion King (even if none of them have ever met him) and so Xulthos uses that pre-established fear as leverage, through his janni proxy, to keep things in control.
And finally, does Kardswann have to go back to be re-enthralled every week? Would the PCs observe this behavior if they watched carefully enough?
That could be a great clue to reward PCs who specifically stake out and watch Kardswann, sure!
In any case, the Templars of the Five Winds have a little bit more revealed about them in Parts 2 and 3 of the Legacy of Fire Adventure Path, but it's not until the last part that their arc really comes to a close... and it's not until this final adventure that the PCs meet any templars who are fully "charged up" by genie wish magic.
In any case... none of that deep background reasoning behind the Templar's source of power and fall from grace and all that's necessary to run the first few adventures of Legacy of Fire... or the first five, for that matter. It is important that the GM understand the backstory though... hope these notes have cleared it up a bit more, and the last adventure should tie up the Templar stuff pretty well.
We probably should have been a little more clear on this... but here's the explanation:
Thanks for the response, James! It was certainly more than I'd expected as I was just looking for other GMs to input their interpretations on these thoughts.
These all work fine for me as solid explanations for the situation the players will uncover in HotCK.
Understanding the rationale is important for me so that I can get a good idea how to play both Kardswann and Xulthos.
Xulthos probably knows about the Carrion King, and uses the Carrion King as a proxy. The gnolls of Kelmarane already fear and respect the Carrion King (even if none of them have ever met him) and so Xulthos uses that pre-established fear as leverage, through his janni proxy, to keep things in control.
My take on it is that Kardswann discovered the Carrion King after he was enthralled and dutifully informed his new friend in the Crypt. And, as you say, Xulthos sees great potential in using the Carrion King to cause havoc in the region, so he has the fallen Templar support him. That works and explains Kardswann's service well enough. I would imagine that one of Xulthos's primary objectives is to free himself from the undercrypt, so I'll need to think about how he might be trying to use Kardswann to accomplish that.
By the way, I love the adventures and particularly look forward to the taking of the monastery. I think the potential to use the pugs as guerrilla "freedom fighters" is pretty awesome (I mean, seriously, demon chihuahuas = win!) I think the PCs will find it not too difficult to run them out of the building, but keeping them out after they've all settled in...
The ogre in the battle market should be CR 3, not CR 2. I'm assuming it's listed as a CR 2 because of:
a) typo
b) 3.0 ogres being CR 2
c) it was, at one point during development, a bugbear
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Addressing the motivations for Kardswaan and Xulthos:
My take on it is that Kardswann discovered the Carrion King after he was enthralled and dutifully informed his new friend in the Crypt. And, as you say, Xulthos sees great potential in using the Carrion King to cause havoc in the region, so he has the fallen Templar support him. That works and explains Kardswann's service well enough. I would imagine that one of Xulthos's primary objectives is to free himself from the undercrypt, so I'll need to think about how he might be trying to use Kardswann to accomplish that.
This is exactly the way I imagined it when I wrote the adventure.
--Erik
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Erik, James: question of *camel-ly importance here
*i.e. not an important question, but one that if answered, would me me heart smile like the irish! :)
Perhaps this belongs in a post on the Pathfinder Companion product forum, but the Legacy of Fire Companion product contains a trait (Genie Blood) which assigns the [Cold] Energy type to air based genies (Djinn) and [Electricity] to water based genies (Marid). Is this correct? The Pathfinder Beta ruleset, based on the Sorcerer Elemental Bloodline, seems to indicate the reverse.
On page 37, regarding Undrella "She also carries a battle market key (see page 39). She does not hesitate to use the latter in combat, taking to the air and pounding her enemies with force."
Page 39 has nothing about battle market keys. Is that supposed to be a reference to her ring of the ram? Or was the battle market key a magic item that was later dropped?
I think "former" and "latter" got mixed up at some point.
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Creative Director
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On page 37, regarding Undrella "She also carries a battle market key (see page 39). She does not hesitate to use the latter in combat, taking to the air and pounding her enemies with force."
Page 39 has nothing about battle market keys. Is that supposed to be a reference to her ring of the ram? Or was the battle market key a magic item that was later dropped?
Yes; the "pounding her enemies" is referring to her ring of the ram. The battle market key is nothing more than a key that opens and closes the locks on the battle market doors (see page 39).
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After running through Part 1, I noted a few things that may help others:
1. Even though Handle Animal cannot be used untrained, this only means you cannot teach an animal. Therefore any character can attempt to make a Charisma check (DC 20) to return lost animals during the fire.
2. Logically the PCs should have a maximum amount of time to rescue Rombard. He becomes frantic upon noticing the PCs approach, and if like my players they take 6 rounds to reach him (as a result of the pugwampi) he should probably end up killing himself out of fear. (Unless I missed something about where he is tied up).
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Creative Director
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1. Even though Handle Animal cannot be used untrained, this only means you cannot teach an animal. Therefore any character can attempt to make a Charisma check (DC 20) to return lost animals during the fire.
Correct; this is an easy to look-over or forget part of Handle Animal.
2. Logically the PCs should have a maximum amount of time to rescue Rombard. He becomes frantic upon noticing the PCs approach, and if like my players they take 6 rounds to reach him (as a result of the pugwampi) he should probably end up killing himself out of fear. (Unless I missed something about where he is tied up).
That's up to the GM. We didn't want to impose a hard limit on how much time the PCs have to rescue Rombard, since the point of the encounter is to introduce pugwampis, not to punish PCs in their second encounter for rolling poorly.
In Part One:
I've got two thoughts on approaching this for my group: (1) Father Zastoran is not actually a Cleric, but rather a priest with potion-making skills; or (2) Father Zastoran is the one wounded and Trevvis is trying to stabilize him with little success. The first option is appealing to me as in my campaigns I like to limit the number of true divinely powered Clerics versus general devotees of a religion. Zastoran can still help out the party with healing items as needed, but doesn't foil the divine character(s) in the party. His dilemma in the challenge could be that the fire is blocking him from his stock, so the party could either help with healing or recover a potion from a half-burning wagon.
As we haven't started yet and I can't be 100% certain we'll have a Cleric in the party, option 2 will accommodate having a Cleric on-hand when needed but helps the challenge flow with d20 game mechanics.
It's less fun if an NPC takes care of a problem that a PC can fix, of course...In Part One:
** spoiler omitted **
Not sure I follow? I agree it's less fun, and thus why the scenario is likely written as is. But it doesn't make sense mechanically (i.e. the NPC as written should be able to fix the problem before any PC and that would be a thrill-kill for the PCs). My two current options are intended to increase player options while also flowing a bit better with the mechanics. Or am I misunderstanding the response?
In Part One:
(1) Father Zastoran is not actually a Cleric, but rather a priest with potion-making skills;
I like that idea!
I also like to limit the number of empowered NPC clerics in the game (just like I limit the number of NPC arcane casters), and this is a perfect solution to the question of why he doesn't just stabilize them in a round or two.
In fact, in "my" Golarion, I have replaced many alchemical potions with herbal potions. So I'm going to make him an apothecary instead. It avoids having a priest around during the beginning of AP#20, which I think will be better.
As an added benefit, if the PCs suck down too many of his potions he can give the PC's requests for different desert herbs and minerals to remake his supply. It's a good way to give them something to do other than the primary objective and gets them out exploring the area. I think it will feel less linear that way.
So, off to go change my adventure to turn Zastoran into a halfling apothecary...
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@erian: If you need it to make sense, Zastoran can explain after the fact (or breathlessly during) that he had exhausted his daily compliment of spells battling heat stroke or scorpions or wild dogs, etc.
Or he doesn't need the help, but he appreciates it! :)
In Part 2:
I'm curious about the wolf spider room. Is the ruined tower missing from the map?
@erian: If you need it to make sense, Zastoran can explain after the fact (or breathlessly during) that he had exhausted his daily compliment of spells battling heat stroke or scorpions or wild dogs, etc.
Or he doesn't need the help, but he appreciates it! :)
In Part 2:
I'm curious about the wolf spider room. Is the ruined tower missing from the map?
We'll be running with the Pathfinder RPG rules rather than 3.5--unlikely he's plowed through all his spells, plus his channeling (and why in the heck did he not have Stabilize memorized as an Orison). Too many hoops to jump through on that route, knowing my players.
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Creative Director
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@erian: If you need it to make sense, Zastoran can explain after the fact (or breathlessly during) that he had exhausted his daily compliment of spells battling heat stroke or scorpions or wild dogs, etc.
Or he doesn't need the help, but he appreciates it! :)
In Part 2:
I'm curious about the wolf spider room. Is the ruined tower missing from the map?
The ruined tower is directly above the alcove and stairs on the east side of area A18. The tower itself is ruined, as are the stairs that once lead up to its upper floors, but the stairs still exist where they continue down into the undercrypt. The ten-foot-square section just south of those stairs is where the hole in the tower above looks down into; the spider itself clings to the rubble and old timbers that still exist above this area, and basically climbs down to attack anyone who enters the area (including those who want to use the stairs to go down to the undercrypt).
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The ruined tower is directly above the alcove and stairs on the east side of area A18. The tower itself is ruined, as are the stairs that once lead up to its upper floors, but the stairs still exist where they continue down into the undercrypt. The ten-foot-square section just south of those stairs is where the hole in the tower above looks down into; the spider itself clings to the rubble and old timbers that still exist above this area, and basically climbs down to attack anyone who enters the area (including those who want to use the stairs to go down to the undercrypt).@erian: If you need it to make sense, Zastoran can explain after the fact (or breathlessly during) that he had exhausted his daily compliment of spells battling heat stroke or scorpions or wild dogs, etc.
Or he doesn't need the help, but he appreciates it! :)
In Part 2:
I'm curious about the wolf spider room. Is the ruined tower missing from the map?
Thanks, James! That makes sense now.
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We'll be running with the Pathfinder RPG rules rather than 3.5--unlikely he's plowed through all his spells, plus his channeling (and why in the heck did he not have Stabilize memorized as an Orison). Too many hoops to jump through on that route, knowing my players.@erian: If you need it to make sense, Zastoran can explain after the fact (or breathlessly during) that he had exhausted his daily compliment of spells battling heat stroke or scorpions or wild dogs, etc.
Or he doesn't need the help, but he appreciates it! :)
In Part 2:
I'm curious about the wolf spider room. Is the ruined tower missing from the map?
Being a cleric of Nethys you could make his alignment Neutral and just say he chose to channel negative energy. Doesn't make any sense for a "healer", but then again Zastoran may really be more interested in magic than healing.
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the wolf spider room... the spider itself clings to the rubble and old timbers that still exist above this area, and basically climbs down to attack anyone who enters the area
Reminds me of a certain moat house near a certain village who's name rhymes with ‘omelet’.
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In the monastery chapel, how would you respond if the players decide to set the rafters / pugwampi nests on fire?
We're approaching that point, and I know my players well enough to suspect this option will come up. We know that the wooden outbuildings have collapsed, and the rafters are generally quite weak, giving some reasonable establishment of rot. Also, we're in desert, or at least dry, environment. And most of the monastery is stone, so they don't need to worry too much about destroying their potential safe spot.
Now, I've never held to instant blazes, but this seems a pretty good condition for fires, but it also makes the pugwampi encounter easy, and could take out the chief as well. Honestly, my current thought is that lighting the chapel up will not be overly difficult, but will drive the pugwampis and the chief into action, and that could be just as bad as a bloodbath for the PCs.
Of course, that also removes any chance of reconsecrating Sarenrae's altar, but I don't expect that consideration to bother my players at all.
Anyone else have some thoughts on this?
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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In the monastery chapel, how would you respond if the players decide to set the rafters / pugwampi nests on fire?
Of course, that also removes any chance of reconsecrating Sarenrae's altar, but I don't expect that consideration to bother my players at all.
Anyone else have some thoughts on this?
Not only this, but the PCs are supposed to clear the monastary so that they can use it as a forward base to attack the town from. If they burn it down, it won't provide shelter or a defencible safe haven.