The Impossible Eye (GM Reference)


Legacy of Fire

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Hopefully others can use this thread to clarify questions arising in this adventure. If you happen to see another thread, please link post a link in this one to try and keep things tied together.

Chapter 1: Howl of the Carrion King
Chapter 2: House of the Beast
Chapter 3: The Jackal's Price
Chapter 4: The End of Eternity
Chapter 5: The Impossible Eye
Chapter 6: The Final Wish


"In the next week or so, we're expecting to ship the next volume of your subscription."

You know the drill!

Grand Lodge

OK, this adventure looks massively awesome! Probably tied with Howl of the Carrion King for my favourite of this path from my readings of it so far. Found a few errors in it, but most of them aren't anything major. I'll post them below;

Bassadoum (p32-33): Bassadoum's attacks as listed as 1 point too low as far as I can see. I get 16 base attack, 8 strength and -1 size for a total of +23, +21 on secondary attacks. The error is also present in his base stats without buffs.

Bassadoum's caster level is listed as 5th when it is in fact 9th.

Bassadoum's grapple check is 2 points too low. Since a reduced grapple check is not listed in his base stats, I suspect bull's strength has not been included. His grapple check should be +28, with his base statistics including a grapple check of +26.

Master Matajinn (p48): Matajinn's flat-footed AC should be the same as his base AC, namely 25, due to his uncanny dodge ability.

Matajinn's attacks with his rapier are calculated as if the rapier was a +2 weapon, but his equipment has it listed as being +1. Since it *is* a named weapon, I don't know if the error is in the attacks or in the equipment list. Clarification would be appreciated.

Aberzjerax (p51-52): Hopefully errors here won't be relevant, I certainly wouldn't want to fight him!
Be that as it may, Aberzjerax's base attack is listed as +18 when it is in fact +22. This error is not carried over to his attacks, which are correct.
Aberzjerax's grapple check is listed as +31 when it should be +41.(Though when you get to those sorts of numbers, an errant +10 doesn't make all that much difference!)

Ezer Hazzebaim (p89): This is the only place where I've found considerable errors, and I'll address them below.

Firstly, Ezer's initiative bonus is listed as +3, but he has Dex 14 and the Improved Initiative feat. However, see my final point below.

Secondly, it states that he casts shield, cat's grace and fly before combat, but his stats do not include the bonuses granted by shield or, I suspect, by cat's grace.
He has a fly speed listed, but his land speed and fly speed are both increased by 30 ft. as if he were hasted, though no other benefits of that spell can be seen. Plus, he doesn't have haste memorized.
I believe that references to his pre-combat spellcasting were supposed to be removed, since his during combat tactics state that he's unlikely to be able to cast any prepatory spells prior to combat.

As such, I believe that any references to his before combat tactics should be deleted, his land speed should be reset to 40 ft., and his fly speed should be removed.

Thirdly, Ezer's base attack and attacks are wrong. By my calculations, Ezer's base attack should be as follows:
+12 from 12 outsider hit dice
+1 from 3 wizard hit dice
+2 from 3 cleric hit dice
+1 from 2 mystic theurge hit dice
+3 from epic attack bonus
for a total of +19 base attack. (this doesn't change the number of his attacks, since his pre-epic base attack was +16.) If he doesn't start using the epic base attack rules (and I'm never sure how that works with monsters exceeding 20 hit dice by the use of class levels) after he reaches 20 hit dice, then his base attack is even lower, at +18.

With his corrected base attack, Ezer's attacks should be as follows:
+1 cold iron greataxe +27/+22/+17/+12 (3d6+11/x3) or
2 slams +26 (1d4+7).

This also means that his grapple check is wrong. Ezer's grapple check should be +30.

Fourthly, finally, and most importantly, Ezer appears to have too many feats. As I understand it, Ezer's feats break down as follows; 2 bonus feats from race, 1 bonus feat from 1st level of wizard, 9 feats from hit dice. However, Ezer has 14 feats listed.

I suspect that he is not supposed to have Improved Initiative, and his listed initiative is wrong anyway, so I'd recommend removing that feat, leaving his initiative at +2. For his second deleted feat I'd recommend Great Cleave, since it doesn't involve any recalculation of his numbers and doesn't come up all that often.

Here are the compiled corrections made to Ezer's stats.

Ezer Hazzebaim
Init +2
Spd 40 ft.
Melee +1 cold iron greataxe +27/+22/+17/+12 (3d6+11/x3) or 2 slams +26 (1d4+7)
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 10th, +20 ranged touch)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 10th, +20 ranged touch)
Base Atk +19; Grp +30
Feats Remove Great Cleave, Improved Initiative

Mea culpa if any of these errors turn out to be nothing of the kind, and I'm just adding things up wrongly. The Ezer stuff is all a bit tricky due to the 'more than 20 Hit Dice' thing, but hopefully my calculations are correct.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Ninjaiguana wrote:
Master Matajinn (p48): Matajinn's flat-footed AC should be the same as his base AC, namely 25, due to his uncanny dodge ability.

That's not how Uncanny Dodge quite works, and they've never statted UD characters that way (see Amiri's stats in Second Darkness). The players just have to remember that characters with Uncanny Dodge rarely lose their Dex bonus to AC.

Edit: fixed that. See below.


delabarre wrote:
Ninjaiguana wrote:
Master Matajinn (p48): Matajinn's flat-footed AC should be the same as his base AC, namely 25, due to his uncanny dodge ability.
That's not how Uncanny Dodge quite works, and they've never statted UD characters that way (see Amiri's stats in Second Darkness). The players just have to remember that characters with Uncanny Dodge are rarely caught flat-footed.

Huh? That's exactly how Uncanny Dodge works, and characters with Uncanny Dodge are flat-footed just as often as any other characters. The only difference is when they're flat-footed (or attacked by invisible creatures) they have a better AC.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
hogarth wrote:
Huh? That's exactly how Uncanny Dodge works, and characters with Uncanny Dodge are flat-footed just as often as any other characters. The only difference is when they're flat-footed (or attacked by invisible creatures) they have a better AC.

Nerts, got that backward again, sorry. FF != Lost Dex Bonus To AC

I've edited the post for correctness.

The problem as I see it is the idea of "Flat-Footed AC" as part of the stat block. This is fine for everyone without Uncanny Dodge, but becomes very confusing for the UD characters.

Certainly a flat-footed UD character retains he Dex bonus to AC...BUT!...he can still lose his Dex bonus to AC due to other factors, such as feinting, so having a precomputed "AC W/O Dex Bonus" is a useful stat! We shorthand it to "flat-footed" even when this is incorrect.

Paizo has always included a (technically incorrect) flat-footed AC for characters with UD.


delabarre wrote:

Certainly a flat-footed UD character retains he Dex bonus to AC...BUT!...he can still lose his Dex bonus to AC due to other factors, such as feinting, so having a precomputed "AC W/O Dex Bonus" is a useful stat! We shorthand it to "flat-footed" even when this is incorrect.

Paizo has always included a (technically incorrect) flat-footed AC for characters with UD.

I agree that writers often get lazy and/or confused and conflate "flat-footed" with "no Dex bonus to AC" (which doesn't have a pithy descriptor, unfortunately) and that that's probably what's going on with the flat-footed AC listed in the stat block.

Grand Lodge

Regardless of whether it is 'correct' or not, on looking back through Pathfinder I find that the flat-footed AC in stat blocks is always sans Dex, uncanny dodge or no. As such I withdraw my claim that Matajinn's AC is in error, with apologies.


Is the GP Limit for the City of Brass correct? It's a bigger city than Absolom but has a smaller limit.

Frog God Games

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Okay, I have finished my read-through of The Impossible Eye. Obviously with a map of that size there are going to be some errors, so I am going to start an errata list, principally in regards to the map. I'll leave the stat blocks corrections in the capable hands of Ninjaiguana and others.

Here is what I have found so far: Spoilers Galore!!!!

Lower Level

A1h - doorway 4 should have a curtain of fire like the others.

A4 - the galley doesn't actually have an opening to a hold, that square should depict a covered pavilion on the deck.

A5 - the pit should be a covered pit.

A9. Grovth the bodak is supposed to be wearing elaborate robes including a veil of fine metal mesh, completely obscuring that he is a bodak. This was cut from the text and is not depicted in the illustration, but was retained in the discussion of his tactics (lifting his veil to expose his gaze attack is a free action for him).

First Level

B7 - The drop from B7 to A4 is 50 feet not 100 feet. The ceiling as described in A4 is approximately 100 feet (actually 90) because it is the ceiling of B7, not the floor of B7 (if that makes sense). The levels themselves are 50 feet apart vertically.

Second Level

C4 - the cage has a door into it at its south end.

C24 - the white square should be labeled as a trapdoor in the ceiling

Third Level

D21/D22 - A short two-step rise should be in the archway connecting these two rooms since the harem's outer portion is higher than its central portion as shown in D20.

D24 - the stairway leading into the tunnel accessing the animal pit in D18 is missing entirely.

Fourth Level

E6 - should have a secret door in its south wall

E16 - the eastern window should actually be a doorway opening out onto a small rounded balcony as described in the text.

Fifth Level

F1b/F3 - a secret door should connect these two areas

Overall I think the maps are in pretty good shape. If anyone else sees a discrepancy, please post them here so we can keep an organized tally for anyone running this adventure.

Thanks, Greg


Questions regarding A1:

Spoiler:

Does the sequence start over when the PCs fail to pick the right curtain or does it continue indefinitely? Is it possible to have two groups tracking on different sequences?

Obviously, as the DM, I could make up my own answer, but I'm interested to see what Mr. Vaughan intended.

Also on some of the natives:

Spoiler:

There isn't a whole lot of backstory on what the various factions are doing in the palace. Imam Shabendeh is pretty straightforward, but I wonder about the others:

Guardians of the Forbidden Gate - The Grand Vizier ordered them to hold the palace/citadel "against all comers", why? No one can escape. Were they sent in after Jhavhul's efreet minions returned, or have they been here since the curse was first laid upon the citadel?

The Flickering Candle - why are they here? Yes they use the citadel as hostage storage, but why are they here in the first place? There's the following in the description of C7, but more detail would be awesome:

"The Flickering Candle, which had hoped to use the abandoned palace as a place to hide its contraband, stashed these objects here soon after they
arrived in Bayt al-Bazan."

The Cult of the Incarnate Flame - Are these former slaves?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Perhaps I'm missing some thing obvious: is the only way to escape the treasure chamber level to discover the secret trash chute over the lava?

Also, not errata:

Spoiler:
I love the tribute to the 1e DMG cover, and also the shout out to Pharaoh (if that's intentional). :D

Grand Lodge

Greg, I'd agree that the maps are in pretty good shape. I'd venture to say that the adventure as a whole is in pretty good shape - as I say, for all my digging I only found one stat block with errors more serious than a missed +1 or a mistyped number. For a level 11-13 adventure, I find that deeply impressive!

I did have one question about Matajinn's equipment that I posted in my original errata post, and if you have an answer on that I'd be all ears. It *is* a fairly minor detail, so no worries if you don't know one way or the other. :)

Frog God Games

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Thanks for the great comments and questions. I'll try to tackle these in order.

F33b wrote:

Questions regarding A1:

** spoiler omitted **

The Collatz Conjecture trap in area 1 works individually for each creature. If they manage to split up, each one would have to continue in the number sequence. The sequence will only start over for a creature if it leaves the treasury completely and then returns--the entrance curtain being a 4, the creature would then be on a 2 for his next move rather if he came in through the Kakishon map as in the adventure where they start out in the treasury on a 4.

F33b wrote:

Also on some of the natives:

** spoiler omitted **

The faction overview I did for the adventure was cut, probably for space. I will attach it below. There a re probably a few inconsistencies with the final printed version due to editorial changes made, but you'll get the general idea.

Released from his imprisonment only recently, Jhavhul has not returned to the City of Brass to discover the fate of his former holdings. In his absence, it has languished under the Grand Vizier’s curse, trapping its residents in accursed imprisonment and ensnaring the unwary who have dared to enter in the intervening years. Those who have survived since and those newcomers who have likewise managed to stave off destruction within the citadel’s deadly confines have formed into various factions that each controls a portion of the grounds. These factions vie with each other in a continual struggle of alliance and betrayal for dominance and even survival within the living brass walls of Bayt al-Bazan.
These factions as they exist today consist of the following:

The Guardians of the Forbidden Gate: Composed primarily of fire giants and their kennel of vicious hell hounds, these are soldiers in the service of the Grand Vizier. Originally sent as a strike force by the Grand Vizier to invade the citadel after the theft of The Impossible Eye, they managed to destroy most of Jhavhul’s surviving servitors but were unable to secure the palace proper or the lower levels. When it was discovered that they were trapped within the citadel by the curse, the Grand Vizier left off sending in reinforcements and ordered them to hold their positions and keep watch over the palace. They currently control the gatehouse, the stables, and the main courtyard. Supplies are delivered to them at the front gate, and every few years additional troops are ordered in to replenish their losses. They have left off guarding the main gate due to boredom and now skirmish only occasionally with the other factions, content in their current position. Their argbadh—captain—is the bronze giant Karambagya.

The Cult of the Incarnate Flame: Many of the servants of the palace fled before the Grand Vizier’s assault and retreated into the lower levels of the palace. Among these was a tribe of lizardfolk native to the Plane of Fire. Once employed as dung sweepers and stable muckers, these servants fled to the soldiers’ shrine (Area 46) and barricaded themselves there. Forgotten by the other factions for many years, dozens of generations later, they continue to guard their lair against all other factions with a desperate zeal. They are led by a powerful member of the tribe called Bassadoum.

The Shahdokt Brethren: This strange group is composed entirely of fire elementals that were once slaves of Bayt al-Bazan. In their flight from the battle in the palace above, they managed to make their way through the palace treasury and into deep chambers devoted to sacred relics of the House (Areas 11–16). There they found a most wondrous artifact, an ever-flowing fountain of pure, cool water that could speak to them. Unable to truly grasp this enigmatic discovery, inimical to their very nature, they began to view it as a powerful oracle and prophetess. For hundreds of years they have tended to this wondrous being, ever careful of its painful touch, and guard it from all who would intrude and threaten it. They are led by a fire elemental called Zithic the Elder who serves as high priest of their strange water cult.

The Flickering Candle: This nefarious guild of assassins and thieves first sought refuge in the supposedly abandoned citadel of Bayt al-Bazan to escape the secret police of the Great Sultan. Only after hiding out did they discover the nature of the curse. Now they reside in the former guest wing of the citadel and lead a hedonistic existence of murder and fatalism, enslaving others trapped within the citadel and destroying those who dare get in their way or who possess something that they covet. They are led by their master, an efreeti named Musalla who believes that the key to their escape may lie within the haunted palace, but his efforts to infiltrate have so far ended in failure.

Keepers of the Haunted Palace: The final faction is composed of those creatures that have remained true in their loyalty to the House of Flame and continue to guard the palace proper and personal chambers of Prince Jhavhul from the incursions of the other factions. That they are primarily made up of the undead remnants of those who fell in the initial battles for control of the house is of no consequence to them. They are led in their honor-bound duty by the noble efreeti—now-turned black jinn—Imam Shahbendeh. In addition, to their own undead ranks, the Keepers have managed to “recruit” many of the indigent and insane who have sought shelter in the long-abandoned citadel over the years and have incorporated these unstable ne’er-do-wells among their ranks.

Frog God Games

Qualidar wrote:
Perhaps I'm missing some thing obvious: is the only way to escape the treasure chamber level to discover the secret trash chute over the lava?

Basically, yes. Javhul had his own means of reaching the treasury (unknown to anyone but the rightful owner of the citadel), and the Grovth's group made it in through the city sewers, but essentially all that is available to the PCs is the garbage chute that the lizardfolk use to hunt the fire bats that hang out in the sewers and area B8.

Qualidar wrote:

Also, not errata:

** spoiler omitted **

Depending on what you're talking about, it probably is indeed a shout out to I1. In fact there are a few shout outs to I1 (some more obvious than others) throughout the adventure. Pharoah was one of my favorite all-time 1e adventures, and this seemed liek a perfect opportunity to write an unofficial backstory for it. There are also shout outs to old 1e covers, etc. (area C15 being probably the most obvious). Anyway, since this whole adventure takes place in the City of Brass, probably the most iconic 1e location next to Greyhawk and Blackmoor, I wanted to make the adventure my tribute to all things 1e with a Middle Eastern or efreeti flair to it. I even included an epigraph from Rudyard Kipling's poem, "The City of Brass," though it didn't make the cut. I hope all you fellow grognards out there enjoy. :-)

Frog God Games

Ninjaiguana wrote:

Greg, I'd agree that the maps are in pretty good shape. I'd venture to say that the adventure as a whole is in pretty good shape - as I say, for all my digging I only found one stat block with errors more serious than a missed +1 or a mistyped number. For a level 11-13 adventure, I find that deeply impressive!

I did have one question about Matajinn's equipment that I posted in my original errata post, and if you have an answer on that I'd be all ears. It *is* a fairly minor detail, so no worries if you don't know one way or the other. :)

Thanks, Ninjaiguana.

The rapier Zin'Kali was originally written as a +2 genie-bane rapier. It was changed to a +1 weapon in editing, though it looks like the stats weren't updated to reflect this, so it can really be whichever way you prefer.

Thanks again for all the stat-block errata clarifications. While I'll study the maps, I can't bring myself to drudge through the math again after I've already calculated it all once prior to the final edit. So your servive to the boards is invaluable.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Greg, just wanted to say I read the adventure and I totally dug it. Very nice work! The maps were very cool and the villain most enjoyable. This grognard was very pleased (though I must grognardily point out that I1 is the fabulous sandbox Dwellers of the Forbidden City; Pharaoh was I3!).


Thanks for the backstory on the factions! This really does help tied the P together (for me at least).

Frog God Games

Jason Nelson wrote:
Greg, just wanted to say I read the adventure and I totally dug it. Very nice work! The maps were very cool and the villain most enjoyable. This grognard was very pleased (though I must grognardily point out that I1 is the fabulous sandbox Dwellers of the Forbidden City; Pharaoh was I3!).

D'oh! That kind of diminshes my whole point and blows my cover at the same time. [Puts his "I Heart 4e" hat back on and stalks out of the room]

Frog God Games

Incidentally, the second Slumbering Tsar adventure, Temple-City of Orcus, is my tribute to Dwellers of the Forbidden City (which is another of my favorite 1e modules), so you'd think I could get the stinkin' letter designator right.

Grand Lodge

Quick question about the Sepid Div in the bestiary. The Sepid has an ability called Evasive Target, the text of which is as follows:

'A sepid is particularly difficult to strike with
ranged weapons and spells that require a ranged touch attack.
Anytime a sepid would normally be hit by a spell using a ranged
touch attack, such as a ray, it can deflect the attack so it takes no
damage or effects by making a successful DC 25 Reflex save. The
sepid must be aware of the attack and not be flat-footed. This
deflection does not consume an action.'

The first line of the ability implies that it should function against ranged attacks of some form or another as well as spells, but the later lines make no mention of it. Does the Sepid's ability work against;

a) Just ranged touch attacks made with spells
b) All ranged touch attacks made with weapons or spells
c) All ranged attacks and ranged touch attacks made with weapons, and ranged touch attacks made with spells?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

My gut feeling is that the sepid div should get its DC 25 Reflex save against all ranged attacks. This starts to get pretty cluttered if it's in a fight against a lot of foes with a lot of ranged attacks, though, which is an argument for limiting it to just ranged touch attack spells.

I would suggest letting it save against all ranged attacks, in any case. Bring lots of d20s if you have a party full of archers!

Grand Lodge

James Jacobs wrote:

My gut feeling is that the sepid div should get its DC 25 Reflex save against all ranged attacks. This starts to get pretty cluttered if it's in a fight against a lot of foes with a lot of ranged attacks, though, which is an argument for limiting it to just ranged touch attack spells.

I would suggest letting it save against all ranged attacks, in any case. Bring lots of d20s if you have a party full of archers!

Only the one archer, fortunately! He may be a little put out to find the Sepid parrying him, but I suppose it only succeeds on a Reflex save of that difficulty about half the time. Thanks for the quick reply, James!

Paizo Employee Director of Game Development

James Jacobs wrote:
I would suggest letting it save against all ranged attacks, in any case. Bring lots of d20s if you have a party full of archers!

This was 100% my intention with the ability.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I've been trying to figure this out all day.

I have a couple questions about area A1.

The party first appears in Area A1a, with the riddle that leads to the 421 sequence plainly visible. I understand how the party is supposed to come up with the 421 sequence, but what I don't understand is exactly how it works in play.

The party starts out in A1a. The safe way to go here is door # 4, which leads directly out to Area A2. But the party needs the perpetual flame from A1c to progress here. Thus, the party has to re-enter the vaults through a wall of fire which I assume deals full damage.

So the party is back in A1a. The next safe choice is door # 2, which leads to A1e and a neat empty genie lamp.

Door # 1 is safe now, and that leads from A1e leads to A1f with a quiver of frost arrows.

In A1f, Door # 4 becomes the safe door, and this leads to A1g, which has nothing of note there.

In A1g, Door # 2 is now safe. Door # 2 is... a dead end. Now, the room's description mentions that any door can be used to access any room in the treasure vault if the PCs concentrate on the appropriate animal symbol. But unless I'm missing something, I don't believe the PCs have much of a chance as written to figure this out.

Assuming that they don't figure that out, what is supposed to happen when the sequence leads to a dead end? Should that count as passing through the correct number and set it to the next one in sequence?

If this is the intention, the sequence would continue:
A1g -1-> A1h
A1h -4-> A5, after which the party takes damage from the wall of fire to get back into the treasury.
A1h -1 because 2 is a dead end-> A1g
A1g -4-> A1f
A1f -1 because 2 is a dead end-> A1e
A1e -2 because 4 is a dead end-> A1a
A1a -1-> A1b
A1b -4-> A1c (Finally! The key to A2)
A1c -2-> A1d
A1d -2 because both 4 and 1 are dead ends-> A1c
A1c -4 because 1 is a dead end-> A1b
A1b -1 because 2 is a dead end-> A1a
A1a -4-> A2

Is the above the intended sequence?

Or should the map "wrap" around to the other side? If that was the case, we have a sequence looking like:
A1g -2-> A1f
A1f -1-> A1e
A1e -4-> A1a
A1a -2-> A1e
A1e -1-> A1f
A1f -4-> A1g
A1g -2-> A1f... uh oh. We're going around in circles here.

Or, finally, is a dead end literally just a dead end, and the next safe number remains the same until the PCs go through an appropriately numbered door? Is the assumption that the party will just bull through an unsafe wall of fire every time this happens?

If that is the case, we see a continuation of the sequence looking like this, assuming the party will always go in an unexplored direction upon encountering a dead end:

A1g -1 with fire damage-> A1h
A1h -4 with fire damage-> A5, then fire damage re-entering the vaults
A1h -1 with fire damage-> A1g
A1g -4 with fire damage-> A1f
A1f -1 with fire damage-> A1e
A1e -2-> A1a
A1a -1-> A1b
A1b -4-> A1c and the key!
A1c -2-> A1d
A1d -2 with fire damage-> A1c
A1c -4 with fire damage-> A1b
A1b -1-> A1a
A1a -4-> A2

Is one of these the intended sequences, or is the party supposed to figure out the animal teleport trick? If the latter, am I missing a hint that is given out for them?

Eric "Critic of the Dawn"


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Perhaps I was misunderstanding it, but I thought that only door #3 caused damage, and you could pass through all others?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Not unless I'm reading it wrong.

My readthrough indicates that going through the next door in the 421 sequence will inflict no damage. Any other door inflicts fire damage. If the group selects door #3 at any point, they not only take fire damage, but are also ambushed by constructs.

Eric "Critic of the Dawn"


Yeah I'm a bit confused with the puzzle too. It seems that even if the party does figure out the sequence they'll end up taking damage as they reach dead ends. I really don;t see my party figuring out the teleportation bit. I'll probably just change numbers above each door so if the do figure the sequence out they will be able to continue unharmed.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

powerfamiliar wrote:
Yeah I'm a bit confused with the puzzle too. It seems that even if the party does figure out the sequence they'll end up taking damage as they reach dead ends. I really don;t see my party figuring out the teleportation bit. I'll probably just change numbers above each door so if the do figure the sequence out they will be able to continue unharmed.

It's important to note that PCs taking damage from fire in this first encounter is not something that's accidental; it's very much by design. There's a LOT of fire damage in the adventure, and the sooner the PCs realize they should start preparing resist elements and protection from elements and the like, the better off they'll be.

Also, while the riddle/puzzle is a tough one, remember that the PCs are pretty high level now. Dimension door is a great way to bypass he arches, and creative players will certainly think of other methods.

Frog God Games

The treasury was not designed for individuals to enter by the method the PCs did (i.e. emerging from a scroll in the center of 1a), but rather by the entrance landing, where the sequence works correctly. In fact, you could say it was designed to prevent anyone entering by such means, since there are other methods such as portable holes that could essentially accomplish the same thing. Also it is not designed for someone who is unfamiliar with the sigils in the rooms. In other words, it's designed for the head of the Bayt al-Bazan and no one else. Even if the PCs get the sequence figured out (which will then be a big help for them), it's still going to take some trial-and-error before they can do so unscathed.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oh. Now that I think about it as an actual security system designed to confound intruders rather than just as a puzzle for the PCs to solve to avoid extra damage, it makes much more sense!

So if you just follow a straight 4-2-1 sequence from any entrance, you will not only never reach another exit safely unless you know about the teleport trick, but from the A2 entrance you will actually end up trapped with multiple unsafe fire walls between you and escape by doing so. Solving the puzzle still gives you some benefit, though, as you can avoid maybe 50% of the damage and all of the construct attacks. Hammering home the fact that this is a fire-themed dungeon right at the start as James Jacobs mentioned probably isn't a bad idea either.

While PCs at this level should have plenty of resources available to help them to get through this area, but several of my party members enjoy a good puzzle from time to time (they easily got through the puzzle in The Demonskar Legacy in Shackled City, for example), so do you guys have any suggestions for good ways to subtly hint at the teleport trick? Maybe subtly refer to the various vault rooms by their animal symbol (ie. The Vulture Vault, the Jackal Vault, etc), and relocate characters appropriately if they are discussing one of them while they pass through a fire wall? Any other ideas?

*EDIT*: Wait a second, Greg said that the sequence is supposed to work properly from the landing (A2, I assume), but according to my map, that takes you on a sequence of:

A2 -4-> A1a
A1a -2-> A1e
A1e -1-> A1f
A1f -4-> A1g

And 2 in A1g is a dead end. Are you supposed to be able to get safely from A2 to A5 without using the teleport trick, or no? If so, should 1 and 2 be switched in A1g and A1h?

Eric "Critic of the Dawn"


Critic, I have a similar problem. While I love the rest of the adventure (@ Greg/Daigle/ Paizo Crew: another superb effort!), I have serious issues with the 'puzzle trap' on the Entrance Level.

1) While I understand that the 'halve/triple' code might lead players to the doors numbered 1, 2 and 4, I don't see how they are supposed to figure out the correct sequence. The only way - as I read it - to do so is the Knowledge (arcana) Check DC 30, which automatically gives you knowledge of the correct sequence (why?). When I imagine this in play, I think my group will have a lot of frustrating 'd'oh, taking fire damage again ...' moments, because while they might figure out 1, 2, 4, they might start at any of those doors.

2) Adding to that, I am quite worried about the lethality of the Magma Vortex. The way it's written, the PCs might appear in Room 1a, miss the clue, and take door 3 - only to drown in Lava, maybe without any kind of protective spell active. 10d6 per round and being sucked down into drainage tubes for more immersion damage seems ... well, it makes sense from Jhavul's standpoint, but it's quite a lot of damage for an unsuspecting PC. This is aggravated by the fact that the rest of the group don't know where their guy has been teleported to ... no line of sight, nothing. If a fighter falls into the trap, he's dead, period.

Maybe that was intended differently? How long do you suppose someone stays "in" the Vortex until he/she is sucked down the drain? I read it as implicating 'after 1 round'.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

The problem, to be honest, with the puzzle trap is that it's so strange and complicated that it was even hard for the editor and developer (me) to wrap his head around. As a result, for a fair amount of time, it had been entirely cut from the adventure. I put it back in because we ended up running a little short and we had the room, and because it IS an unusual, neat and complex trap and because it works really well to give the PCs a heads-up that they'll be dealing with a lot of fire damage right from the start of the adventure. That said, in the process of development and editing through multiple people... something as complex as this is easy to "break" with a simple typo or a "correction" by someone who misunderstood the sequence of numbers (or a misplaced number on a map, even... we had a HELL of a time getting the numbers on the map to show up right... and I'm still not sure it's exactly right, but I hope it is).

In the end, though, as Greg said, it's not necessarily something that has a proper solution, especially since the PCs pop into the thing out of order. It's an obstacle that the PCs will need to use trial and error to overcome, as well as their actual powers like teleporation, quench, dispel magic, etc.

As for the teleporting into the lava trap, yeah, it's pretty rough, but there SHOULD be a pretty rough security feature in a place like this, and high-level PCs should periodically face really scary traps anyway. That said, it's no fun to hit a PC with a no-win situation.

A fighter who falls into the trap isn't necessarilly dead, period, since he should have a fair amount of hit points and, hopefully, some other sort of magic other than his weapon to escape from situations like this (be it boots of levitation, a cape of the montebank, or whatever). And we kept the time it takes to be sucked down the drain undefined mostly so that the GM could adjust that time as he felt was appropriate. "After 1 round" is appropriate if the victim has multiple ways to escape, but in the case of the unprepared fighter, I would suggest "after 1 minute" so that he has a few chances to swim out or otherwise escape or be rescued.

In the end, of course, if you feel it's too hard-core of a trap, feel free to take it out or change it as you see fit.

And as for players getting frustrated with the trap... That's why there's a Knowledge check DC provided. If your PCs are getting frustrated, give them another shot at this Knowledge check with a +5 or so bonus on the roll (a bonus from having experienced and interacted with the puzzle for a bit), and on a success you should give them some more hints or even the outright solution to the problem. Even if that solution is "You started in the middle and thus the sequence is impossible to solve so you'll need to teleport out, use magic to bypass the curtains, use disable device to neutralize some of the traps, or just tough it out and take the fire damage a few times."

Frog God Games

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The use of the teleport feature is an integral part of the vaults for the convenience of the ruling pasha and the detriment of all others. Geez guys, sorry I made it so hard. I need Gary's shoulder to cry on, now. As the creator of the green demon face, he'd understand. ;-)

Ways to make it easier...probably the biggest and easiest is to use Ezer as a cheat. He can appear in any of the reflective walls or ceilings of the rooms and can give more concrete instructions if needed for the purposes of the game, especially if the PCs appear to be having a tough go of it. He has a vested interest in their success after all. Having had the abilities of The Impossible Eye at his disposal for a few hundred years has given him LOTS of time to learn stuff about the citadel.

As for the magma vortex. I love this. This is one of the few times James has edited one of my adventures to make it deadlier. Originally, the teleport trap brought its recipient to a dimensionally locked cell in area B12 sans clothing and equipment (which of course stayed in the vault as a "donation" to the ruling pasha). That way, the PC might be out for a little while, but could conceivably escape or be rescued by his comrades later. In this instance, you might consider using one of the azer mamluks as a temporary replacement PC for anyone whose character ends up locked up for awhile. So you could always go that route if the magma vortex thing seems like it will take too much of a toll on your PCs. I wrote this adventure as both an homage to 1e and the Gygaxian tradition and as much in its spirit of abrupt deadliness as possible, so as always, modify to tastes.

As for why I used the crazy Collatz Conjecture trap to begin with (thank you immensely for leaving it in, James, I would have been very sad if it had been cut); I really wanted to tie in with the idea of the Arabic/Persian origin for a lot of our advanced mathematics--except to put it into a fantasy light wanted to ask, "Well, where did they get it from?" Why, from the genies of course, and who better than a lawful evil genie would come up with something so inherently lawful and evil as algebra, et. al. (sorry, personal bias and nightmares from high school may have been included in that decision).

Anyway, I'm glad you're all enjoying the adventure, and I honestly take the comments about the complexity of the trap as a compliments in light of what I was trying to do with it. However, I understand it could be a nightmare to run through (as player or DM), so please feel free to provide additional hints and helps as necessary for your own group using the previous suggestions or others altogether. Some groups really dig this kind of thing and some don't, so do what it takes to make it fun for your group. I'd rather have a hard/complicated trap that I can take out of an adventure rather than need to put one in and have to come up with it myself. Hopefully, at least, it was fun for you to read. :-)

Scarab Sages

Greg/James, one more small bit of errata regarding the Hazneh:

Spoiler:
Only seven of the eight area A1 rooms are detailed in the print copy. What animal is inscribed in the roof of A1h? And what treasure (if any) is inside? I set a lion in the roof in my version, but just wanted to know what the original setup was.

Algebra trap + magma = win. Great adventure, Greg. This is giving CoCT a running for my favorite AP.

Frog God Games

Effigy wrote:

Greg/James, one more small bit of errata regarding the Hazneh:

** spoiler omitted **

Algebra trap + magma = win. Great adventure, Greg. This is giving CoCT a running for my favorite AP.

That's my bad, Effigy. For some reason I totally left the description for that room out of my original draft. However, it should be empty of treasure, and I think a lion sounds good. Sorry about that.

And thanks for the comments. I'm glad you're enjoying it.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Hi there,

I am just wishing to know about the following:

Room D12 is listed as being EL12, but it has no encounter listed. The room description also doesn't match the map (I wouldn't want to have an arena for pitting pyrolisks against each other in a 20x20 foot room)....typo??

thanks

Frog God Games

sanwah68 wrote:

Hi there,

I am just wishing to know about the following:

Room D12 is listed as being EL12, but it has no encounter listed. The room description also doesn't match the map (I wouldn't want to have an arena for pitting pyrolisks against each other in a 20x20 foot room)....typo??

thanks

The EL is an artifact left over from before the final edit when there were several genies in the room. The arena is more just a hollow cut into the center of the table to create a small pit area for cockfights. Since the efreet/salamanders are immune to fire, the close proximity to the pyrolisks wasn't much of a concern for them. Plus the room is 40x40, so it's a little roomier than 20x20. The squares in the palace are 10 ft. each.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Thanks for the clarification Greg, I feel a bit foolish that I missed the scale on the map.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

I just want to add, because it made me laugh so hard on Warehouse 13.

Spoiler:
In area B6, if anyone wishes for Shazathared's freedom, they get a ferret.(and experience for a CR9 encounter for altruistic wasting of their wish)


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Maybe I missed it when reading the various answers above, but I don't see an answer to part of Critic of the Dawn's question about area A1; specifically, if you step into a "dead end" doorway, do you:
(a) bounce off a solid wall back into the room you were trying to leave, and know there was a wall in your way,
(b) exit through the portal you entered through, as if just reflected back,
(c) come out in a completely different room by "wrapping" the map (e.g. from A1g, step into doorway 2, and come out through doorway 2 of A1f), or
(d) come out in a completely different room by finding another "dead end" with the same numbered doorway (so A1h door 3 might connect to A1b door 3, but A1f door 3 would connect to A1d door 3 and A1d door 1 could connect to A1c door 1).

Please advise, thanks!

Frog God Games

Cintra Bristol wrote:

Maybe I missed it when reading the various answers above, but I don't see an answer to part of Critic of the Dawn's question about area A1; specifically, if you step into a "dead end" doorway, do you:

(a) bounce off a solid wall back into the room you were trying to leave, and know there was a wall in your way,
(b) exit through the portal you entered through, as if just reflected back,
(c) come out in a completely different room by "wrapping" the map (e.g. from A1g, step into doorway 2, and come out through doorway 2 of A1f), or
(d) come out in a completely different room by finding another "dead end" with the same numbered doorway (so A1h door 3 might connect to A1b door 3, but A1f door 3 would connect to A1d door 3 and A1d door 1 could connect to A1c door 1).

Please advise, thanks!

Looks like it got lost in editing. Here ya go:

If the dead-end doorway is entered out of the correct order, then the user will simply boucne off the solid wall.

If the dead-end doorway is entered in the correct numerical order it will either take the user to any doorway of that number the user wishes(if the room's animal is pictured), or the user appears randomly at another doorway of that number within the hazneh.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:

Looks like it got lost in editing. Here ya go:

If the dead-end doorway is entered out of the correct order, then the user will simply boucne off the solid wall.

If the dead-end doorway is entered in the correct numerical order it will either take the user to any doorway of that number the user wishes(if the room's animal is pictured), or the user appears randomly at another doorway of that number within the hazneh.

That helps - thanks!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Maybe I am missing something obvious here; but can anyone tell me what the white dotted line between Area D2 and Area D5 is supposed to represent?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

dmchucky69 wrote:
Maybe I am missing something obvious here; but can anyone tell me what the white dotted line between Area D2 and Area D5 is supposed to represent?

Compare the map on page 36 to the one on page 44. The dotted line represents the edge of teh roof over area D5. Area D5 has a ceiling, while areas D1/D2 are open to the sky.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
dmchucky69 wrote:
Maybe I am missing something obvious here; but can anyone tell me what the white dotted line between Area D2 and Area D5 is supposed to represent?
Compare the map on page 36 to the one on page 44. The dotted line represents the edge of teh roof over area D5. Area D5 has a ceiling, while areas D1/D2 are open to the sky.

Told ya I was missing something obvious. Blame it on Matt Smith and that goofy mug spoiling my Doctor Who fix!

Dark Archive

If anyone knows, what, if anything, is the winged, four-armed, tauric creature pictured on page 4? I read through the adventure but haven't seen anything resembling that, unless I'm missing something somewhere.

The Exchange

derangel wrote:
If anyone knows, what, if anything, is the winged, four-armed, tauric creature pictured on page 4? I read through the adventure but haven't seen anything resembling that, unless I'm missing something somewhere.

That is Ymeri, the Queen of the Inferno.

There was another picture of her on the blog a while ago :

Ymeri

Sovereign Court

Hi all, I think I may have come up with a path that will let you through every single room without ever once getting any damage (if you start from A2). Since they start on the inside, they'll take damage going through door 4 into A2 and then if we can assume the sequence is "reset," plus take a leap of faith that the "dead-end" rooms will dump you out into one of the other rooms with a "dead-end," (see A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H on my map) I actually found a 4-2-1 sequence path that works! Assume again that the sequence is reset once you make it out to the A5-A9 area, then it is just a hop/skip/jump to get back out into A2. This is the way I'm playing it, and I'm dumping the "animal runes" thing. See: http://home.comcast.net/~dmmcb/5eye0s.jpg


I found the puzzle trap to be a bit too puzzling so I changed the trap to one based on colours instead of a numeric sequence. The curtains of flame are each one of the colours of the rainbow. As long as you progress in the standard colour order of red orange yellow green blue indigo violet there is no burn damage. If you pass through two curtains of flame and the second curtain isn't the same colour as the one you just passed through (I allowed the characters to go back a room without damage) or the next colour in sequence you take the damage.

As a disclaimer, the party never figured out the colour reference and just kept getting burned.

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