I know I'm not the only one on here who looked at the 4E Deluxe books and wondered why they have to be leather-bound. VEGAN HOLLA IF YA HEAR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eh .....well ......umm.......gods. I was gonna make a snide comment here mostly involving 4e, undead abominations and cows, but ya know what I'm good.
Is it real leather or faux leather?
eh .....well ......umm.......gods. I was gonna make a snide comment here mostly involving 4e, undead abominations and cows, but ya know what I'm good.
Mooooo.
Interesting. Does anyone have this product? I don't believe they would say leather if it were just the leather look-alike covers, like the 2E handbooks (Wizards, etc.) had. But looking at feedback on Amazon, I am starting to think that the product has been misrepresentation:
What is good: The bindings of these deluxe books are much better than the standard, cheaper printings. And the cover is much nicer (though leather would have been even better).
I'm extremely disappointed that these books are not leather bound and that they are not significantly higher quality than the standard rulebooks. This "Deluxe" Players Handbook is only different on the cover -- not in quality, quantity or presentation.
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Interesting. Does anyone have this product? I don't believe they would say leather if it were just the leather look-alike covers, like the 2E handbooks (Wizards, etc.) had. But looking at feedback on Amazon, I am starting to think that the product has been misrepresentation:
What is good: The bindings of these deluxe books are much better than the standard, cheaper printings. And the cover is much nicer (though leather would have been even better).
I'm extremely disappointed that these books are not leather bound and that they are not significantly higher quality than the standard rulebooks. This "Deluxe" Players Handbook is only different on the cover -- not in quality, quantity or presentation.
Maybe they fixed all the eratta thus making them "Deluxe"?
Maybe thay got the leather from pulling the flaking skin off sunburned cows?
Or maybe all those sacred cows they killed... ;)
I'm totally not a vegan, I like meat and leather both,...but I did have a question I have been wondering for quite some time and this seems like a good spot to ask it. What do most vegans thinks about Jello?
While I'm not Vegan myself both my business partner and my sole employee are and, in my experience, Vegans are very, very, aware of what is in their food, hair products, make up, Lubricant used during sex (I kid you not) etc. etc.
There are some Vegan versions of Jello out there but no Vegan I know would touch the stuff made with animal products and they'd be aware of the products origins. Certainly when playing D&D the Vegans at the table scrutinize the ingredients list of all the snack foods looking for words that set off alarm bells. Usually they just forgo the snacks and make a deal with the host/hostess to cook real wholesome meals instead of living on pop, pizza and potato chips like the rest of the gang.
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I have a question. I'm not a vegan, but my fiance is vegetarian. Last night she took me to a vegan chinese food place. I ordered crab rangoons and the General Tso's chicken.
Why does vegetarian food feel the need to imitate meat dishes?
If I had ordered vegie dumplings and tofu w/peapods (peapods? why are they in General Tso's chicken), which I recieved, I might have had a better experience. Instead I went for the tried and true favorites, and was bitterly dissapointed. I was this close to getting the half a duck, but my fiance talked me out of it.
I don't get it. I thought vegetarians liked vegetables. Why try to disguise them as meat?
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Certainly when playing D&D the Vegans at the table scrutinize the ingredients list of all the snack foods looking for words that set off alarm bells. Usually they just forgo the snacks and make a deal with the host/hostess to cook real wholesome meals instead of living on pop, pizza and potato chips like the rest of the gang.
Above emphasis is mine.
While I respect the dedication of Vegans to their lifestyle, I find that my only ability to respond to the above passage is to phrase it using the rules of several different systems...
D&D 3.5: I failed my will save and ran screaming in horror for 4 rounds after reading the above passage.
Call of Cthulhu: just lost 21 sanity and went temporarily insane after reading the words "wholesome meals" in relation to a gaming session.
vampire the Masquerade I failed my Rotschreck test and destroyed my laptop while in frenzy.
And finally....
Rolemaster: I suffered a critical fumble while reading and rolled a 66 on the critical table, immediately severing my own spine. Foe [me] dies gasping for air after 3 miserable rounds.
Well, let's face it: every business is abou the bottom line. You could have food that tastes just like meat, but if it has a weird name and doesn't look like something most people are familiar/comfortable with, people will be scared to buy it.
Many rubber products, including automobile tires, contain casein, a milk protein. We do our best, but I am not aware of any (sane) way to completely avoid it.
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Usually they just forgo the snacks and make a deal with the host/hostess to cook real wholesome meals instead of living on pop, pizza and potato chips like the rest of the gang.
Oh, the horror!
(I'm not a vegan, by the way. Part of my job description is to taunt them. MUAHAHAHAHA!)
Also worth noting:
"I was in Ireland, sitting in traffic, and I had turned on the radio. I heard the guy on the air say 'If the Lord hadn't intended us to eat animals, then why did He make them out of meat?' You can't make this stuff up. It seemed like I'd gotten my money's worth right there."
- Peter Mulvey
Most vegans I know keep a 'Thank the gods it's vegan' file. Mine includes Oreos (sometimes), many kinds of snack chips, including Fritos and most potato chips, and Burger King fries (unlike many places, BK has dedicated fryers so that their fries are not cooked in oil with chicken or other fried meat products). Many other delicious foods, including most kinds of cookies and all kinds of fruit pies, can easily be made without animal products. So while most vegans are health-conscious, we do have plenty of wonderful and unhealthy options.
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So while most vegans are health-conscious, we do have plenty of wonderful and unhealthy options.
Yeah, I'm aware of that. I have a couple of vegetarian dishes that i like quite a bit. Also there is a pretty good vegan restaurant the wife and i frequent once in awhile. I've tried some good vegan snacks, and they are quite good. I'm just an unrepentant lover of fried food and cheese, which of course led to my silly joke above.
I thought it was funny. I appreciate your open-mindedness, humor, and non-defensive stance (that goes for other people on this thread as well).
I wish more omnivores would be open to eating different kinds of food, because they are missing out on a lot of great variety. But, just as there are vegans who are intolerant of those who are not like them, there are many omnivores who are hostile toward vegetarianism.
I'm afraid there are quite a few defensive and puritanical types on both sides of this issue. This is a complex issue or constellation of issues, and I believe that there is room for polite disagreement among intelligent, ethical people, and that we shouldn't allow ourselves to become rigid and humorless.
Director of Game Development
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We recently hired a new guy and when he learned that I was vegetarian he said the oddest thing I have ever heard in response to that. He asked, "What does your doctor think about that?"
I was kinda dumbfounded. I knew what he meant, but I had never been asked that before. He's one of those people that thinks you can't actually eat a healthy balanced diet without eating meat, which is absurd. There have been cultures on this planet for thousands of years who do not eat meat. The daily requirement of protein is tiny compared to what people consume. Heart disease is the number one killer of Americans, so what does my doctor think? Not that I have one, but I doubt they'd care, and any doctor that says otherwise is a quack.
Protein is available outside of meat. If I was ever to stop eating meat, I would worry more about the emotional problems related to a B-12 deficiency.
There are a wide verity of foods and supplements that include B-12 not made from an animal product and you absolutely need B-12 but you sure don't need much.
I have a question. I'm not a vegan, but my fiance is vegetarian. Last night she took me to a vegan chinese food place. I ordered crab rangoons and the General Tso's chicken.
Why does vegetarian food feel the need to imitate meat dishes?
If I had ordered vegie dumplings and tofu w/peapods (peapods? why are they in General Tso's chicken), which I recieved, I might have had a better experience. Instead I went for the tried and true favorites, and was bitterly dissapointed. I was this close to getting the half a duck, but my fiance talked me out of it.
I don't get it. I thought vegetarians liked vegetables. Why try to disguise them as meat?
Because meat is tasty. I loved meat. But it isn't that good for you (especially red meat and especially three meals a day) and most vegetarians have a problem with where it comes from; the more I learn about the meat industry, the less I want to support it.
But what do I do when the summer comes around and I smell some delicious burgers cooking on the grill? I eat the soy replacement. Similar enough taste, fewer ethical quandries, debatable health benefits. Works for me.
Protein is available outside of meat. If I was ever to stop eating meat, I would worry more about the emotional problems related to a B-12 deficiency.There are a wide verity of foods and supplements that include B-12 not made from an animal product and you absolutely need B-12 but you sure don't need much.
And don't you get that from sunlight? Or is that vitamin D?
I eat almost no meat.
But I'm not strictly vegetarian in any way.
Congratulations on your buy, Chaos boy!
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Director of Game Development
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Protein is available outside of meat. If I was ever to stop eating meat, I would worry more about the emotional problems related to a B-12 deficiency.There are a wide verity of foods and supplements that include B-12 not made from an animal product and you absolutely need B-12 but you sure don't need much.
Exactly. The vitamins I take daily provide b-12 synthesized without using animal products and the 25mg in the vitamin provides 417% of the daily requirement. So, yes. You can get it other places and you don't need much.
Edit: And I apologize. We are far off topic from the OP's point.
Vitamin D is from the sunlight, Keegan the Veegan. ;)
I just got Planes of Chaos boxed set at Half Price Books for $15.
I thought I was photosynthetic once, but I just got sunburnt. And then they had to change the water in my jar again.
Pretty sweet. A month or two ago I got Faction War, Dead Gods, Factol's Manifesto, In the Cage, Planewalker's Handbook and the fairly stinky Player's Guide to the Outlands as one lot off of Ebay for a pretty good price.
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I thought it was funny. I appreciate your open-mindedness, humor, and non-defensive stance (that goes for other people on this thread as well).
I wish more omnivores would be open to eating different kinds of food, because they are missing out on a lot of great variety. But, just as there are vegans who are intolerant of those who are not like them, there are many omnivores who are hostile toward vegetarianism.I'm afraid there are quite a few defensive and puritanical types on both sides of this issue. This is a complex issue or constellation of issues, and I believe that there is room for polite disagreement among intelligent, ethical people, and that we shouldn't allow ourselves to become rigid and humorless.
It's usually the hunters and meat ranchers that get way over excited about the meat content of your diet. I'm not sure where the carnivore haters come from. I just find it funny that with all the problems of hatred, racism and warring religions in the world, only in Europe and America will people hate you for eating or not eating meat.
You need more B-12 than you think, and a B-12 deficiency can screw you up for life. Any diet that requires supplements is non-sustainable.
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You need more B-12 than you think, and a B-12 deficiency can screw you up for life. Any diet that requires supplements is non-sustainable.
I should hope not. My sister needs to take B-12 shots. She has Crohn's disease and had to have surgery on the part of the intestines that absorbs B-12. She is doing very well and only gets a little tired and irritable if she has not taken her shot in awhile, but she does not need a B-12 shot every day, only about once a month. Even if you need supplements, I don't see what is unsustainable about that. It most definitely sustains her and she is doing better now than she did before the surgery. My sister is not a vegan (she is semi-vegetarian); even when she eats red meat, it will not provide her with B-12 because her body just won't absorb it on its own, so she needs a supplement. Processed foods add supplements all the time. They're why we aren't growing goiters the size of cantaloupes in America anymore.
You just proved my point. Obviously, your sister would be a special case (having a disorder; interestingly enough, did you see they are talking about using probiotics to treat Crohn’s now?).
They're why we aren't growing goiters the size of cantaloupes in America anymore.
Some of us still are! :) That's why my diet is now considered non-sustainable. Technically, I have enough thyroid left to live, but I'd be zombie-ish again.
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Any diet that requires supplements is non-sustainable.
What does that mean? Why is it non-sustainable? Responsible vegans are aware of the vitamins they might not get enough of and take supplements which BECOME part of their diet and just as readily available as groceries. If your wife had to take iron supplements would you consider her to be on a non-sustainable diet?
If your wife had to take iron supplements would you consider her to be on a non-sustainable diet?
Yes (and she does). In the absence of supplements, your diet would kill you. That's what I mean by non-sustainable. Without outside (regardless of ease of obtainability) resources, you could not continue.
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I'm sorry mw, but that is ridiculous. You are making a false division between vitamins and food. Both are equally available and taken for the same purpose- keeping your body healthy. If for any reason what comes on your plate is not able to fill all of your body's needs, you take a supplement. Since vitamin manufacturers are not going anywhere, a diet that utilizes them is just as sustainable as any other.
No, you are confusing definitions based on a false assumption that I'm attacking veganism. If you rely on resources your normal diet cannot provide, your diet is not sustainable. Somewhere, a chemist has to mix pills to provide you with what the food you are eating cannot provide (Calcium, B vitamins, D vitamins). The fact that you can walk two blocks and buy such things to incorporate into your diet with zero stress is irrelevant. Out of curiosity, where do you suppose the B-12 comes from that gets into the vitamins you take?
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I'm not vegan, I just think what you were saying doesn't make sense. It's more about your choice of words though. "Non-Sustainable" is the problem. I can't think of a better fit right now, but if you had said something like the vegan diet is inherently insufficient for your vitamin/mineral needs I probably would have passed over what you said. It's just that anyone who is dedicated and smart will have no problem living healthy while sustaining a diet that requires a supplement throughout their life if need be.
Yep, you nailed it (sustainable is a specific, technical term in this instance).
oops. forgot the spoiler!
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It's more about your choice of words though.... It's just that anyone who is dedicated and smart will have no problem living healthy while sustaining a diet that requires a supplement
I agree, and that is sort of what I was trying to say with the anecdote about my sister. She needs a supplement, and she sustains herself with her diet. It's not an "all natural" diet, but it works, and I think few of us can even eat an all natural diet nowadays -- we aren't hunter-gatherers. If we eat any commercially processed foods, we're most likely getting some supplemental products in them.
I did hear about the microbes treatment for Crohn's by the way, but my sister's condition had progressed to the point where the surgery was necessary, so she didn't have the chance to try that stuff. For someone with infrequent flare-ups I'd recommend trying other things before surgery, of course.
I'm a big fan of Michael Pollan, so I understand what you mean about a naturally sustainable diet. Things like eating local and practicing agricultural diversity help, and being vegan avoids the whole issue of factory farms. But we all have to make some compromises in our diets -- even if we don't have thyroid or intestinal problems.
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I'm an omnivore and I love me some tofu. I don't care how it's prepared, really, I think it's delicious.
And somehow when my group meets, we don't eat a lot of junk food, despite us all being opportunistic omnivores. Sometimes we boil a huge vat of noodles and make some pesto. I recommend it, it requires little effort and tastes delicious. We also drink a lot of that Crystal Light lemonade. I think it's pretty good, and it's cheaper than soda. We do get chips a lot, and if someone has soda, we'll drink it, but the other stuff is usually more common.
Oh, I also recommend getting pineapple. Just cut one or two up and slap it on a plate, it goes great with dungeon crawling! Pineapple is truly a gift; it tastes f@#king awesome, and it's good for you!
EDIT: I'm going to have to agree on the separation of dietary supplements and diet as far as definition goes. Eating is different than taking pills. I should know. I take a lot of pills. ;p
Out of curiosity, where do you suppose the B-12 comes from that gets into the vitamins you take?
IIRC sauerkraut is a non-animal source where B-12 comes from.
Need for sauerkraut is also a good reason not to be a vegan, in my opinion...
In general I'd say people should eat less meat and more veggies etc. I should too (I don't eat meat on every meal or even every day, but living also without milk, egg and gelatin products is definitely going too far when I am concerned).
Main reason I don't go and be a lacto-ovo-vegetarian who wears leather shoes is that I don't care enough about food, one way or another, and taking such stands would require me to think more about my diet than I like to.
And could I have PHB bound in depleted uranium?
IIRC sauerkraut is a non-animal source where B-12 comes from.
You can get B-12 from a few vegetable sources, but none reliably. You can also get it from not washing your hands after defecating (gut bacteria produces B-12, that’s how you get it from meat), but I wouldn’t recommend that one either!
Need for sauerkraut is also a good reason not to be a vegan, in my opinion...
Bwahahahaha. On that note, reading about how cheese gets made (specifically, cheese with rennet) certainly makes one consider veganism.
I really enjoy soy meat substitute (soy meatballs freaking rule), but I have to limit my soy intake because it is goitrogenic. :(
Question for you vegans out there, because I never thought about this until this thread got going: Opinions on insect products (honey) and breast feeding (obviously it comes from animals, but there is no consent issue)?
Oh, and I just made four delicious loaves of banana bread, something that would be perfect for vegans (though of course, you'd need to substitute out the yogurt, which I use as a substitute for buttermilk (yuck). I would think soy juice (sorry, no such thing as soymilk) might work.