WotC Announces Date of End of Free Trial


4th Edition

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Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32

Link to Announcement Here

Looks like the free trial of Dragon and Dungeon go subscriber only in October. I'm thinking I'm going to pass on subscribing. Nothing much in the digital Dragon and Dungeons has really wowed me beyond a meh level.

Scarab Sages

Darn I was enjoying the freebies.

**Grabs wallet and sighs**

Dark Archive

I'll be right behind you. I've liked what I've seen I just wait until the end of the month when the PDF version is compiled, print it out on the color laser jet and put it in bathroo...err...reading room like my old Dungeon & Dragon mags:)

Horus wrote:

Darn I was enjoying the freebies.

**Grabs wallet and sighs**

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Hmmm...

I'm on the fence.

On the one hand, I've been pretty happy with the quality of the articles since the 4e launch.

On the other hand, the tools still appear to be in shitty shape, and they are a substantial reason for me to subscribe.

Is there anything stopping me from, say, buying one month and downloading all the content during that month? I really am only interested in subscribing if the tools are up to par, and currently they are not. I can't see a compelling reason to pay $59.40 for a year's worth of access when I could, for example, pay $16 and download six months worth of content twice per year.

Scarab Sages

DUNGiN & DRAGiN are gonna cost money again huh? Whatever, they lost me at 4ello.

Scarab Sages

Greg Volz wrote:

I'll be right behind you. I've liked what I've seen I just wait until the end of the month when the PDF version is compiled, print it out on the color laser jet and put it in bathroo...err...reading room like my old Dungeon & Dragon mags:)

Horus wrote:

Darn I was enjoying the freebies.

**Grabs wallet and sighs**

I like the PDF's but yes definitely need to fix my printer for toile.., er the bus journey to work.

Scarab Sages

Sebastian wrote:

Hmmm...

I'm on the fence.

On the one hand, I've been pretty happy with the quality of the articles since the 4e launch.

On the other hand, the tools still appear to be in s!&%ty shape, and they are a substantial reason for me to subscribe.

Is there anything stopping me from, say, buying one month and downloading all the content during that month? I really am only interested in subscribing if the tools are up to par, and currently they are not.

They were talking about allowing people to buy the magazines seperately for $3.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Horus wrote:

They were talking about allowing people to buy the magazines seperately for $3.

But is there anything stopping me from buying a month's worth of access in October, 2009 and downloading an entire year's worth of issues for $7.95?

Scarab Sages

Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:
DUNGiN & DRAGiN are gonna cost money again huh? Whatever, they lost me at 4ello.

Thank you for that contribution.

However you may wish to look at the magazines whilst still free, if you already haven't.

Whilst mechanically useless in 3.x the fluff itself is not without merit.

Later days

Scarab Sages

Sebastian wrote:
Horus wrote:

They were talking about allowing people to buy the magazines seperately for $3.

But is there anything stopping me from buying a month's worth of access in October, 2009 and downloading an entire year's worth of issues for $7.95?

Unless their idiots I expect so, hmm the idiot part is a possibility.

However I seem to recall something about not having automatic access to issues pre-subscription.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

*grumble, grumble, grumble*

The completist in me says to buy it...

The still-angry-at-not-having-paper-mags says not to...

Still, $6,00 a month isn't that much...


I'm buying.

Scarab Sages

Horus wrote:
Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:
DUNGiN & DRAGiN are gonna cost money again huh? Whatever, they lost me at 4ello.

Thank you for that contribution.

However you may wish to look at the magazines whilst still free, if you already haven't.

Whilst mechanically useless in 3.x the fluff itself is not without merit.

Later days

I had been downloading the pre-4e stuff, I might have a looksee at the fluff again and download whatever I can before it's gone.

Nothing against the pla4Ers, good gaming to those who play 4th!

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Pathfinder X wrote:


I had been downloading the pre-4e stuff, I might have a looksee at the fluff again and download whatever I can before it's gone.

Nothing against the pla4Ers, good gaming to those who play 4th!

Spoiler:

Pathfinder X is actually Speed Racer's older brother, Rex.

Paizo Employee Director of Sales

Sebastian wrote:


** spoiler omitted **

I award you one internet, sir, for making me LOL.

The Exchange

The content is very very good. I will not use the tools as they currently stand. Fortunately the mags alone are worth the price of admission.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Cosmo wrote:
Sebastian wrote:


** spoiler omitted **

I award you one internet, sir, for making me LOL.

Woot!

As owner of the internet, my first action is to give you a lifetime ban! Sucker!!!

The Exchange

Sebastian wrote:
Cosmo wrote:
Sebastian wrote:


** spoiler omitted **

I award you one internet, sir, for making me LOL.

Woot!

As owner of the internet, my first action is to give you a lifetime ban! Sucker!!!

You might need a plunger to get him out of his particular tube. This isn't a dump truck ya know.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

You mean they're gonna make me pay to point and laugh as they muddle their way through an adventure path? No thanks. I am surprised to see that they will have moved from free to pay-only after just four months of 4E being out. I was expecting much, much longer before they had a fully operational Death St...er, website.

The Exchange

yoda8myhead wrote:
You mean they're gonna make me pay to point and laugh as they muddle their way through an adventure path? No thanks. I am surprised to see that they will have moved from free to pay-only after just four months of 4E being out. I was expecting much, much longer before they had a fully operational Death St...er, website.

It's not fully operational. In fact it's more of a fixer upper at this point but the articles are solid (even if the adventures aren't).

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Sebastian wrote:
But is there anything stopping me from buying a month's worth of access in October, 2009 and downloading an entire year's worth of issues for $7.95?

This is, essentially, the problem I have with Steve Jackson Games' "Warehouse 13" and "Traveller" sites. They allow current subscribers to access their entire archives; the longer I wait to subscribe, the more stuff will be available to me, and the more valuable will my subscription be.


Well... I lost interest when it went 4e...so no biggy.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Hmmm... I don't know.

Part of me likes having access to as much as I can. If I pay for the year the price is cheap per month that I would be content paying it to get the type of articles they have been posting.

On the other hand I'm not sure how useful the articles will be. I'm not itching to read through them. I'm concern that it will be like my World of Warcraft account when I became disinterested with it. That it will just slowly drain money from me just so I can have continued access to it.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I'll be subscribing.

The tools are fairly meager right now, but are starting to shape up. We're already able to copy and paste class powers (to add the power write-ups onto a character sheet). I'll be interested to see how long the lag time ends up being between each new book being published, and that book's crunch getting into the database.

Scarab Sages

Sebastian wrote:

*grumble, grumble, grumble*

The completist in me says to buy it...

The still-angry-at-not-having-paper-mags says not to...

Still, $6,00 a month isn't that much...

Look at it this way, you know you want to and maybe your $6per will go towards actually finishing the tools. After all, without strong support, there is no reason that Hasbro can't tell them to pare back (or even cancel) their tool offerings. They put a lot of eggs in this basket, and at some point they need some baby chicks to supply to all of the buffalo wing outfits for deep-frying and hot-saucing. (now THAT is a mixed metaphor I can sink my teeth into)

The tools already are long overdue, gleemax was killed, and many a head did roll over this issue (they were looking for basically a new design team a few months back before all of the firings). Your (and others) contributions during its infancy may help the DDI to grow into what WotC envisioned, and many 4e fans hoped for.

note: for full disclosure, I will not be subscribing, or playing 4e. That ship has sailed for me. But if i was, I'd say you'd be crazy not to at least check it out for a month or two.

the 'ling


I'll be subscribing, probably in 3-month intervals.

Dark Archive

The subscription would be tempting to me if the DDI was actually up and running. The virtual gaming table, character generater, and all the spiffy stuff they promised but can't deliver have made me dubious they ever will. I mean the announced that they would have these features when they announced 4e. That was nearly a year and a half ago. I can't begin to fathom how you can sell the DDI as the backbone of your marketing strategy and then allow yourself to completely whiff on it's execution. Gleemax was a failure of epic proportions. Someone over there just didn't think this thing through. Every time WotC tries to implement a digital feature for the D&D brand they botch it big time.

I have found that I like a lot about 4e since I have given it a second chance. If the online stuff was actually working like it is supposed to be, then I would seriously consider subscribing. As it is, I feel like I am basically paying for a subscription to a virtual magazine that I used to get in print form for the same price until they decided they wanted everything to be electronic. Without the other digital features there is just no way to justify subscribing for me. The magazine content itself is a mixed bag. There have been some great articles since they brought it back in house, but there have been just as many complete stinkers.

I am going to hold off on putting any money into it to see if they can actually get it up and running at all. If they do, I will consider it then.


Give me a print magazine and I'll subscribe.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

underling wrote:


Look at it this way, you know you want to and maybe your $6per will go towards actually finishing the tools. After all, without strong support, there is no reason that Hasbro can't tell them to pare back (or even cancel) their tool offerings. They put a lot of eggs in this basket, and at some point they need some baby chicks to supply to all of the buffalo wing outfits for deep-frying and hot-saucing. (now THAT is a mixed metaphor I can sink my teeth into)

The tools already are long overdue, gleemax was killed, and many a head did roll over this issue (they were looking for basically a new design team a few months back before all of the firings). Your (and others) contributions during its infancy may help the DDI to grow into what WotC envisioned, and many 4e fans hoped for.

note: for full disclosure, I will not be subscribing, or playing 4e. That ship has sailed for me. But if i was, I'd say you'd be crazy not to at least check it out for a month or two.

Means a lot to me to hear you say that 'ling and I very much appreciate the sentiment. You've got a generous spirit to say such kindly things about WotC. I probably will subscribe, but it kills me that this product has been so over-promised and under-delivered. It'd be a lot easier to pony-up the cash if it had all the features that were promised way back in the day.

Thanks for the sentiment.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I think I'll try out October and maybe November, personally. I wouldn't mind trying out the barbarian playtest, and some of the preview stuff is good, but their Adventure Path so far hasn't grabbed me. I've got plenty of players and I do my own miniature art, so the virtual tabletop and D&D Miniature stuff is pretty useless for me, too.

I dunno. I like their mechanics (don't hurt me), and if I was into the core "points of light" campaign or Forgotten Realms, I'd probably get more of a kick out of the fluff stuff. All I need is the crunch-filled stuff, I guess. I've got twenty years of D&D fluff material behind me as I write this.

But that's just one man's drip in the sea of internet opinion. :)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Oh, and I can't see any reason why you can't subscribe, download the full issue (at the end of the month, of course), print it out, and unsubscribe. In fact, it appears to be part of the business model. I think I even remember something about mailing out CDs with the full issue's PDF on them at some point in time, but that could be misremembered/incorrect.

It's a lot like buying an issue of Pathfinder on PDF, printing it out, and never buying another product. You paid good cash for it; it's yours. Print it out all you like. :)

EDIT: Or were you thinking of "pay at the end of the year, d/l the back-issues, unsubscribe"? 'Cause I think you've only got access to the stuff put out in the months that you're a subscriber. But I could be wrong.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

I didn't think that the D&D online tabletop is included in this subscription (even when it is finished). Am I wrong?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Zynete wrote:
I didn't think that the D&D online tabletop is included in this subscription (even when it is finished). Am I wrong?

Actually, I think you're right--that's a different subscription, when it's available. But I'm too lazy to look it up (and with the power of the Internet, that's mighty lazy).


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Sebastian wrote:
Is there anything stopping me from, say, buying one month and downloading all the content during that month? I really am only interested in subscribing if the tools are up to par, and currently they are not. I can't see a compelling reason to pay $59.40 for a year's worth of access when I could, for example, pay $16 and download six months worth of content twice per year.

They say that you only get access to the contents of Dungeon and Dragon for the months during which you're subscribed. But supposedly you'll be able to buy the back issues from non-subscribed periods separately.

Scarab Sages

I'll probably only ever subscribe for the magazine package, I find them worthwhile and the web tools are nice icing. Plus for a year the price is negligible monthly.

Not sure about the tabletop though, I'm not desperate enough to pay more money for a pretty picture maker or a sef calculating character sheet. Since those are the only two functions I would use, the tabletop being irrelevent to me as I game in the real world.

I'd like to see them offer alternative or pick and choose subscription methods.


I'm torn, but leaning against subscribing.

I like the Dragon content for its rules, but adventures in Dungeon, especially the AP, remains spotty at best.

In fact, Paizo's support made it easy for me to continue playing -- I don't have a lot of time to develop campaigns, adventures, and NPCs. They did a great job for me. WotC doesn't know how, or doesn't want to, or doesn't care.

For the first time in a long time, I'm faced with possibly not playing D&D :(


I subscribed to Dragon for years when it was a paper publication, and I plan to continue with it now that it is an online magazine. It isn't a substantial difference in price - previously it was ~$40.00 for a year, now it is $60.00, and comes with some other stuff. Not, admittedly, stuff I really care about - I've never really used content from Dungeon, and the web tools that come with the product are neat, but nothing I can't find elsewhere.

The difference between print and digital format is not too big a concern for me - there are advantages to each, at least for me. And in honesty, I've found the content in the online magazines far more useful than I ever really found the print product - which was a fun read, but rarely had content I could really apply to a game. So I still feel like I'm getting a good deal - as long as they keep up with the job they've done so far, I'll purchase a year at a time with no complaints.

Scarab Sages

Can't get into the site at work; did they say what will happen to the archives of 3.0/3.5 articles/maps/illustrations?
Will they be kept open, or made subscriber-only?


I'll be getting the year subscription. Its the cost of a DVD rental a month, for more pages than a typical splat book. And I've bought many splat books that have seen 30% or less of the pages used in my campaigns, so the odd article that I can't apply directly doesn't phase me. The extra tools are icing.

The Compendium has already shown its value, as I can cut-paste powers onto power cards (http://www.dnditalia.it/pcg). Plus, as each new NPC, monster, and magic item is added (including those from the magazines) its value only increases. It will become a very useful library in the future.


Give me a print magazine and I'd subscribe, but this electronic PDF model is worthless and the online "magazines" are a shadow of their former glory under Paizo. The print magazines had soul.

Scarab Sages

Krypter wrote:
Give me a print magazine and I'd subscribe, but this electronic PDF model is worthless and the online "magazines" are a shadow of their former glory under Paizo. The print magazines had soul.

See I can't agree with this, personally I'm finding the quality of Dragon to be top notch and on par with anything in the print run. I'm not even particularly bothered by the e-format since it saves space and makes for an easier reference at the game table.

Dungeon, meh not so hot. Some decent adventures but I'll mainly mine it for new monsters, maps and maybe a few adventure ideas. However I remain hopeful this will change.

Dark Archive

Horus wrote:

See I can't agree with this, personally I'm finding the quality of Dragon to be top notch and on par with anything in the print run. I'm not even particularly bothered by the e-format since it saves space and makes for an easier reference at the game table.

Dungeon, meh not so hot. Some decent adventures but I'll mainly mine it for new monsters, maps and maybe a few adventure ideas. However I remain hopeful this will change.

That's pretty much where I am. I've really been digging the new Dragon, but the new Dungeon hasn't really grabbed me. If there's an option for getting just Dragon, even if I have to buy it separately every month, I'll take it, but I don't know if there's enough there to get a monthly subscription to the full DDI.

Scarab Sages

NockerGeek wrote:
Horus wrote:

See I can't agree with this, personally I'm finding the quality of Dragon to be top notch and on par with anything in the print run. I'm not even particularly bothered by the e-format since it saves space and makes for an easier reference at the game table.

Dungeon, meh not so hot. Some decent adventures but I'll mainly mine it for new monsters, maps and maybe a few adventure ideas. However I remain hopeful this will change.

That's pretty much where I am. I've really been digging the new Dragon, but the new Dungeon hasn't really grabbed me. If there's an option for getting just Dragon, even if I have to buy it separately every month, I'll take it, but I don't know if there's enough there to get a monthly subscription to the full DDI.

I would swear I've seen somewhere you will be able to purchase/download the magazines seperately.

Dark Archive

Horus wrote:
I would swear I've seen somewhere you will be able to purchase/download the magazines seperately.

I hope there is.

I also hope they can keep up their update schedule. We're 3 weeks into September, and they've only posted 2 of 6 featured articles online for Dragon, and none for Dungeon. It doesn't bode well for their reliability.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

All of you subscribing, I wish you the best of luck, and hope that WotC gets their stuff together.

/me goes and hugs his KQ subscription. The magazine even WotC advertises in


Matthew Morris wrote:

All of you subscribing, I wish you the best of luck, and hope that WotC gets their stuff together.

/me goes and hugs his KQ subscription. The magazine even WotC advertises in

Kobold Quarterly is great, it doesn't have all the polish of the old mags but it does have all the soul and humour.


Matthew Koelbl wrote:
...I've found the content in the online magazines far more useful than I ever really found the print product - which was a fun read, but rarely had content I could really apply to a game...

I think 4e is benefitting from it's recent release. We're all hungry and in need for additional rules -- and Dragon has so far been doing that beautifully.

In fact, if I do end up subscribing, it'll be strictly for that content in Dragon.


Not thrilled with the mags so far, but it's the thing I would like to have access to and pet my collector's bug.

Though I do use .pdf resources galore, one thing I would like to see with subscription would be a "printer friendly version", B/W with less layout and without non-essential (maps and such) illustrations. I do tend to print the stuff I actually get to run(esp. adventures) and I like carrying those pages around, taking notes and smudging them. The present layout is beautiful in a laptop LCD, but a killer for my printer, even on single adventure basis.


David Witanowski wrote:
Give me a print magazine and I'll subscribe.

I agree totally. The PDFs are ok, and some of them have been very good, but, a real magazine is not only easier to use and more portable, but would improve the quality IMO, since you'd have to meet deadlines and the like.


Post removed. Long winded and irrelevant, not least because of realisation in subsequent post.

Oh, and smurf.

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