Go Ravens!
;)
nevermore!!!
Just one more stop left on my revenge tour.
Didn't we already see this Superbowl?
Meh, the comercials aren't even worth it anymore.
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WOW what a game. I know alot of people on this site are not happy with the outcome but I for one am very happy to see my team get back to the Super Bowl I am hoping we can beat the Giants and get a win. I am a happy man though I was quite aggravated on Sunday. AZ I still think you are a great undead even if you hate my team with great vehemence I ahve nothing but love for you my friend. :)
GO PATS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This will be the first Super Bowl I think I watched since 2007.
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I hates them Pats.
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We want the XFL!
Does anyone actually like the Pats? Other than Gruumash, I mean. And maybe Brady's family. And that weird guy a few cubicles down from me.
My best friend's girl friend from 20 years ago; she's all "hahahaha! Tebow got sacked! suck it, Tebow! hahahaha!"
She's brought me from not giving a shit to hating the Pat's more than I ever hated the Steelers.
Your best friend's girlfriend from 20 years ago needs stones cast at her. What she needs is a healthy plate of Nibiru for breakfast.
-ett
Rev 3:16
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Does anyone actually like the Pats? Other than Gruumash, I mean. And maybe Brady's family. And that weird guy a few cubicles down from me.
Hey come on now I am actually a person here and I matter I am certain there are others out there who like the Pats thougn more than likely they are in New England. Hey AZ how come you are lumping me in with the weird guy .... okay maybe I am a bit strange but I am certainly not a band wagoneer type I have loved those Patriots since I was a wee lad during the dark days when they were 2-14 when I was in college. So hate my team and hate me for loving them but I have always been a fan. Not to say anyone in particular said I was not but I have noticed alot more fans of the team now that they have been so successful in this new century.
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While I agree that the practice is despicable, and all participants should be punished to the full extent of the league rules, I don't know if it would count as cheating.
In this case, people were allegedly offering money to players for hitting (and possibly hurting) a member of the opposing team. Normally, they do this anyway, except for the potentially delibrately hurting (although getting hurt is always a risk). So, this is nothing that would really give them an outright unfair advantage over anyone else prior to the start of the game, since it is predicated on them actually being able to accomplish such tackles and injuries.
On the other hand, Belichick and cohorts were delibrately engaging in actions ahead of time that were designed to give them a distinct advantage before the game even started.
So, while definitely unsportsmanlike, and against league (and union) rules, does this actually enter the realm of cheating? I, personally, do not think so. Dirty play, yes. Cheating, that's a stretch.
Now, of course, I will also reserve complete judgement until all facts are in. I have yet to see anything that says bounties were actually paid, only offered. Unless I've missed something. If, despite offers made, no player actually engaged in such actions, and no bounties were paid, then there's not much else to the story except people making distasteful and unsportsmanlike offers.
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And, having read up a little more on this little issue, I can further say that I hope several people lose their jobs over this.
Loomis, the Saints GM , most definitely deserve to go if found guilty. It appears that he misled, not just investigators, but the commissioner himself, as to the existence of the program.
Gregg Williams, the man who allegedly masterminded the bounty system, should be completely drummed out of the NFL, especially if (in light of further investigations) he had similar systems in place with other francises.
Sean Payton, even if he did not knowingly participate in or have knowledge of this, had to have at least turned a blind eye. He should either lose his job, or face severe punishment.
The franchise as a whole should be punished if it can be shown that the players did, indeed, actively participate in this horrendous program.
It is sad that my team deemed it necessary to engage in such terrible behavior, and they should be made an example of as a warning to others Luckily, Benson does not have the kind of cozy relationship with the commissioner that might otherwise shield his team from much deserved punishment, unlike some other team owner I could mention.
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Ah... Touche AZ Touche. Well said even if you did with one hand say it was bad yet still not as bad.
I think the practice o hurting players intentionally to gain an unfair advantage is cheating and worse than using a practice of say my team and what they were fined for.
Yet good for you to fess up not sure I can say the same for myself when it comes to me team.
Reaches out an imaginary hand to shake and congradulate the zombie but warily keeping an eye on those teeth of his to make sure he does not go after his brain..
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What the Saints allegedly did was decidely worse - risking greater injury to others for monetary gain. And I didn't hold back in saying they should be punished to the full extent of NFL rules, no matter how much influence (or lack thereof in Benson's case), the team owner might have.
However, my initial point was that I didn't necessarily consider it cheating. I call it dirty play instead. But that's just a quibble in terms. Players being encouraged to play more aggressively? If that's all that was needed to call someone a cheater, then everyone deserves that term. The big problems with this were the extra money offered, and the incentive to hurt someone.
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If, despite offers made, no player actually engaged in such actions, and no bounties were paid, then there's not much else to the story except people making distasteful and unsportsmanlike offers.
If it was a policy endorsed by any member of the coaching staff or management, I would say just having that policy in place, even if no injury-causing hits were made and no bounties paid, would be enough for the appropriate minimal penalty to be forfeiture of every win while the program was in place.
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If, despite offers made, no player actually engaged in such actions, and no bounties were paid, then there's not much else to the story except people making distasteful and unsportsmanlike offers.If it was a policy endorsed by any member of the coaching staff or management, I would say just having that policy in place, even if no injury-causing hits were made and no bounties paid, would be enough for the appropriate minimal penalty to be forfeiture of every win while the program was in place.
Then they'd probably have to take wins away from every team. Not saying what the Saints did is acceptable because everyone else was doing it, just pointing out the reality of the situation.
Besides, if they did that, then they might be forced to revisit punishments leveled for actual cheating.
Ironically, however, the coaching staff being involved does have the potential to get them in more trouble, since it's that aspect of the situation that might violate union contracts.
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Then they'd probably have to take wins away from every team.
I'd be okay with that. Is there such a thing as a double forfeit? Team A plays Team B and both take a loss?
Besides, if they did that, then they might be forced to revisit punishments leveled for actual cheating.
I'd be okay with that too.
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I imagine what will ultimately happen is that the Saints (and perhaps some other teams) will lose draft picks and maybe be hit with fines. I fully expect that Saints GM Loomis will be fired for lying to both Tom Benson and the NFL.
I would also not mind seeing Gregg Williams completely driven out of the NFL for not only instituting this with the Saints, but other teams as well allegedly.
I asked Jesus to deliver me a Super Bowl.
He delivers Peyton.
I didn't find it funny.
I'm going to make that horse-toothed ex-quarterback and bobblehead boy pay.
DEARLY.
-ett
Rev 3:16
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Damn! I almost feel sorry for Sean Payton. But that's what happens when the Commissioner isn't one of your good friends.
Not for that rat-bastard Greg Williams though - he got way less than he deserves. And Loomis (the GM) also got way less than he deserved - dude should lose his job the way Payton likely will.
And, of course, I now feel they should investigate every team and do the same punishment for all offenders. I know that won't happen, but I can dream.
I have to wonder, however, if the severity of the punishment handed down is some attempt to make sure the Saints have less of a chance to get to the next Superbowl, since it's in New Orleans.
Loved the decision and hope that Williams is ultimately fired and sinks into disgraceful obscurity. Loomis should go with him, and Coach Peyton is lucky he don't get the same seeing as the three of them basically gave the commissioner the finger when he told them to shut this bounty system down the first time.
The AINTS should have never made it to the Super Bowl in the first place...and now we know how they did it.
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If that's the standard by which you judge, then there are a lot of other teams that shouldn't have made it either. Probably including whichever team you cheer for whose asses I'm guessing the Saints whupped.
Not saying they don't deserve punishment, just that it seemed a bit harsher than usual. Not entirely unexpected, of course. I do think that if it had been certain other teams with more influential owners the punishment might not have been as severe.
Don't get too comfortable in your current position, Sanchize. Before too long, you can take the bench and bang 17 year old strumpets with your buddy Leinart.
I'm going to be the king of the Big Apple. Move over, Eli Manning. Your two Super Bowl rings pale in comparison to the force that is Tebowmania! You will pay for your brother's transgressions.
-ett
Rev 3:16
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I have to wonder, however, if the severity of the punishment handed down is some attempt to make sure the Saints have less of a chance to get to the next Superbowl, since it's in New Orleans.There have only been 10,000 Superbowls in NO right? ;)
Something like that. Growing up it was like every time we turned around there was another one being hosted. We were always like "What? Again?".
It got to be where New Olreans was like the L.A. of the pro football. Walk down the street and you could see Joe Montana hanging on the street corner playing a saxaphone for a small crowd.
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I thought this was an interesting article, with some good points.
Roger Goodell Is Not Serious About Player Safety, And It's Because Of Money
Apparently Tebow has taken some levels in paladin.
Apparently Tebow has taken some levels in paladin.
Perhaps Evil Tim Tebow has an opinion on this. :)
If that's the standard by which you judge, then there are a lot of other teams that shouldn't have made it either. Probably including whichever team you cheer for whose asses I'm guessing the Saints whupped.
Not saying they don't deserve punishment, just that it seemed a bit harsher than usual. Not entirely unexpected, of course. I do think that if it had been certain other teams with more influential owners the punishment might not have been as severe.
I'm a Colts fan and the Aints won our Super Bowl match up fair and square (as far as I can tell). But that season, the bounty was on - perhaps you remember the NFC championship game where the defense beat the $#!+ out of Favre...else it would have been the Colts and Vikings playing for the Super Bowl that year.
And Williams was also the DC when the Redskins crushed Peyton Manning and started all of the problems that led to four neck surgeries and the loss of last season.As for punishment, not harsh at all. Only an Aints fan would support a bunch of thugs on their fav team. Steelers fans and Ravens fans do the same.
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As I suspected.......
However, in light of some of the other goings on, and having read more of some other things going on, I'd say Peyton brought this down on his own head and pretty much deserves whatever he gets. It sucks that the Saints as a whole are affected by the actions of a handful of douchebags.
My one real problem with the whole thing, is the more I read about this I'm fairly convinced that if his had been a team with a more influential owner (like the Pats or the Cowboys) I don't think the punishment would have been nearly as harsh. That and if the NFL were serious about player safety they'd be investigating way more than 2 or 3 teams.
Either way, I look forward to seeing if both your team and mine can repeat their awesome performances from last season. Oh, wait.......
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AZ I am not sure there was any choice here no matter what happened the bounties thing was destroying the game itself and they needed to act harshly because they were taking out the premier players of the game the reason people really watch. So I would argue that no matter who it was they would have had to have been harshly dealt with. I know you think certian teams because of the owners get some special treatment and I would agree in certain circumstances they do. I don't think this was one of those circumstances. My humble opinion.
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Bounties destroying the game? Seriously? Something that's been going on for years suddenly started destroying the game?
And which premier players? Favre? Old as dirt in NFL years, and with multiple injuries over a lengthy career. As I recall, he even had an addiction to pain killers back in the day. Kurt Warner? Old like Farve, and also with multiple injures over the years, including multiple concussions. Peyton Manning? Again, an older player who's had mutliple injuries, including once playing with a broken jaw.
You're correct in that something was being destroyed - the image of the NFL and, therefore, it's ability to make money. New Orleans had multiple problems over the last years, beyond the bounty thing. So have other teams. But Goodell had to wait until he had the power to actually do something, which the recent contracting crap has now given him. The Saints just happened to be the first team in his cross-hairs. Now Goodell has sent a message - you give us bad PR, mess with the flow of cash, and we will punish you accordingly.
Player safety was just a bonus feature.
And, yes, certain other teams would be treated differently. It all comes down to this little real world thing called money. The teams/owners with more cash have more influence. It's the way the world works. Hell, it's why the Saints are still in New Orleans. Benson wanted to move them to Houston years ago, but the NFL said no.
Apparently Tebow has taken some levels in paladin.Perhaps Evil Tim Tebow has an opinion on this. :)
Force delayed Vulcan nerve pinch. It has a condition set when he'll drop down for no apparent reason in the field of play when he finally gets a chance to play against me when we're on opposing teams.
Dawkins is going to be Tebowned. He just doesn't know it yet.
In the meantime, there's disensanchizing to be done.
-ett
Rev 3:16
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Bounties destroying the game? Seriously? Something that's been going on for years suddenly started destroying the game?
And which premier players? Favre? Old as dirt in NFL years, and with multiple injuries over a lengthy career. As I recall, he even had an addiction to pain killers back in the day. Kurt Warner? Old like Farve, and also with multiple injures over the years, including multiple concussions. Peyton Manning? Again, an older player who's had mutliple injuries, including once playing with a broken jaw.
You're correct in that something was being destroyed - the image of the NFL and, therefore, it's ability to make money. New Orleans had multiple problems over the last years, beyond the bounty thing. So have other teams. But Goodell had to wait until he had the power to actually do something, which the recent contracting crap has now given him. The Saints just happened to be the first team in his cross-hairs. Now Goodell has sent a message - you give us bad PR, mess with the flow of cash, and we will punish you accordingly.
Player safety was just a bonus feature.
And, yes, certain other teams would be treated differently. It all comes down to this little real world thing called money. The teams/owners with more cash have more influence. It's the way the world works. Hell, it's why the Saints are still in New Orleans. Benson wanted to move them to Houston years ago, but the NFL said no.
You don't think Peyton Manning is a premier draw for the NFL? I think all you need to look at is all the advertising he does. I don't in my own opinion think that once this came out could allow this to take place any more. I agree perhaps destroying the game came across or you read it in a different way then I intented it. The NFL was protecting its cash cow the most marketable players and Peyton Manning and Tom Brady being two of the most recognizable players outside of football Tim Tebow being another.
I completely agree with this statement: "Now Goodell has sent a message - you give us bad PR, mess with the flow of cash, and we will punish you accordingly." But I also don't necessarily think this a bad thing I can certainly understand your frustration with it. I also think they are going to come down on or should come down on the Redskins for their involvement and if they do not then I will agree with you it is an unfair system and would need to be changed.
And, yes, certain other teams would be treated differently. It all comes down to this little real world thing called money. The teams/owners with more cash have more influence. It's the way the world works. Hell, it's why the Saints are still in New Orleans. Benson wanted to move them to Houston years ago, but the NFL said no.
Keep sucking on those sour grapes, Aber. I hear they begin to taste better after awhile...
As for what our teams will be in the future, the Colts will rebound from last season - it might take them a few years to rebuild, but they'll get back to the SB before long.
And the Aints? Well, it doesn't matter what they do from here on out - their history has been marred, their Super Bowl victory tainted, and no one will ever forget how they lied, cheated, and royally screwed themselves. Some way to pay back the fans who have supported them all of these years. Might see some paper bags this season in the stands. I'd be ashamed if I was a fan. Instead...I'm just laughing.
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Keep sucking on those sour grapes, Aber. I hear they begin to taste better after awhile...
Sour grapes? Maybe a bit. Mostly just pissed at the Saint's for screwing things up so badly.
As for what our teams will be in the future, the Colts will rebound from last season - it might take them a few years to rebuild, but they'll get back to the SB before long.
I certainly hope so. I was cheering for the Colts while they had Manning as QB, so I may keep doing so (at least whenever they play the Pats).
And the Aints? Well, it doesn't matter what they do from here on out - their history has been marred, their Super Bowl victory tainted, and no one will ever forget how they lied, cheated, and royally screwed themselves. Some way to pay back the fans who have supported them all of these years. Might see some paper bags this season in the stands. I'd be ashamed if I was a fan. Instead...I'm just laughing.
Wow, talk about sour grapes. Sore loser much? I can see that some of the things I've heard about Indy fans are true. Shame, it seems like such a nice place.
History marred? Maybe so, at least for a little while. But if the Pats can come back from their cheating scandal, the Saints can come back.
Super Bowl Victory tainted? Only if you're an idiot who thinks a few bad players on defense make up an entire team. There was this little thing called an Offense that was pretty impressive. They've got their Superbowl victory, and no one can really take that away from them.