ARE WE MEN OR ARE WE MICE!!! Let’s stop allowing ourselves and D&D to be kicked around in the media! Let’s fight back!!! Everyone get on the McCain for President website and send them your outrage! Let’s overwhelm the website and SHUT IT DOWN. Tell all your friends. Just like a year ago when we shut down Wizards’ website. Or better yet call them or write them a letter.
John McCain 2008
P.O. Box 16118
Arlington, VA 22215
(703) 418-2008
This is not about political affiliations or even who you think would be the best president.
This is about prejudice and unfair treatment. Click on the link below to send a message to the McCain camp.
http://www.johnmccain.com/Contact/
BTW I am a 47 year old conservative Christian, gamer, teacher, homeowner, and father of two so don't accuse me of being a knee jerk liberal that lives in my parents' basement. I am mad as Hell and I am not taking it any more!
For background information click on the site below:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/18/mccain-camp-slams-skeptics- of-his-saddleback-cross-story/
This is NOT about who you want for president. This is about prejudice and D&D being used as the 21st century equivalent of the "n" word. I hope there are a number of McCain supporters out there who are willing to take their candidate to task.
This is NOT a month old issue. The original interview by Rick Warren took place on 8/16/08. The spin doctoring obviously began after that. The worst thing gamers can do is nothing!
August 18, 2008
McCain camp slams cross story skeptics
Posted: 05:28 PM ET
From CNN Associate Political Editor Rebecca Sinderbrand
A still from McCain’s cross ad, which ran this winter.
(CNN) — John McCain’s campaign blasted critics who questioned the senator’s account of an incident during his time as a prisoner of war Monday, citing an account from his former fellow POW Orson Swindle and blaming the controversy on “the pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd.”
During a presidential forum at Pastor Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church on Saturday, McCain told a story of a guard who wordlessly drew a cross in the dirt one Christmas, describing it as a moment that gave him strength.
Critics in the blogosphere said that McCain, who was released in 1973, had not mentioned the incident until shortly before his 2000 presidential bid, and had relayed it in the third person on at least one occasion. They also pointed to similarities between McCain’s account and a similar story in Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago, his account of life in the Soviet labor camp system.
McCain aide Michael Goldfarb, in a message posted on the campaign’s Web site Monday, said Swindle – now a campaign surrogate – told him the presumptive Republican nominee had related the story “’when we first moved in together [in captivity].’ That was in the summer of 1971, Swindle said, though ‘time blurred’ and he couldn't be sure,” wrote Goldfarb.
He also said that it was logical that Christians in both Russia and Vietnam might have used many of the same subtle signals during that era.
“It may be typical of the pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd to disparage a fellow countryman's memory of war from the comfort of mom's basement, but most Americans have the humility and gratitude to respect and learn from the memories of men who suffered on behalf of others,” he wrote.
“John McCain has often said he witnessed a thousand acts of bravery while he was imprisoned, and though not every one has been submitted into the public record, they are remembered by the men who were there (one such only recently reported by Karl Rove though it escaped mention in any of Senator McCain's books). But as Swindle said, this is a ‘desperate group of people trying to make something out of nothing.’”
In December, shortly before the primary season began, McCain's campaign used the story of the cross as the basis for a Christmas-themed campaign ad.
Filed under: John McCain
148 Comments | Permalink
Stacey Ellis August 18th, 2008 6:02 pm ET
The first to recognize McCain's posible plagerism was a republican blog in 2005- not a democrat. See Dailly Kos for explanation.
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This is NOT a month old issue. The original interview by Rick Warren took place on 8/16/08. The spin doctoring obviously began after that. The worst thing gamers can do is nothing!
The staffer who said it issued theis apology the other day "This campaign is committed to increasing the strength, constitution, dexterity, intelligence, wisdom, and charisma scores of every American." Should we also write the Obama campaign and complain about all of his supporters who were offended to be lumped in with people who play Dungeons and Dragons? Lets try and gain a little perspective here. Did you go and protest the last Die Hard movie for portraying D&D players, Star Wars fans, and people who use computers as freaks living in their parents basement? I ask to determine the level to which your outrage at being sterotyped is consistant.
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This is NOT about who you want for president. This is about prejudice and D&D being used as the 21st century equivalent of the "n" word. I hope there are a number of McCain supporters out there who are willing to take their candidate to task.
But when you have only posted 8 times and 6 of them were on this thread, one has to wonder if you really are just here to agitate against McCain. Not saying it's true, just telling you what it looks like. Especially when you duplicate several threads and even duplicate the name of one of them.
Personally, I just find it perposterous to associate the labeling D&D players as socially awkward with a racial slur ("the 'n' word). The analogy is faulty on a number of levels.
Did you go and protest the last Die Hard movie for portraying D&D players, Star Wars fans, and people who use computers as freaks living in their parents basement?
Hmm... One is entertainment, the other is a political campaign for presidency. IMO, the campaign has a somewhat higher overall importance.
Stefan
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Did you go and protest the last Die Hard movie for portraying D&D players, Star Wars fans, and people who use computers as freaks living in their parents basement?Hmm... One is entertainment, the other is a political campaign for presidency. IMO, the campaign has a somewhat higher overall importance.
Stefan
My point is still valid, since people offended by the racial slur the OP mentioned would be out protesting whether it was a politician or a movie that said it. Discrimination is discrimination and if you feel a portrayal of your clique is offensive it should not matter what the source is.
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Call me a mouse, but why should we care?
I think there are a lot worse things then getting upset over some petty little mans comment. I will continue to defy the stereotypes and show people by example that being a nerd and gamer doesn't mean socially inept, and therefor spread equanimity by example rather than repeatedly fall to nerd rage and make myself an exemplar of the stereotype.
Nathan, who's voting for Bob Bahr
Lets try and gain a little perspective here. Did you go and protest the last Die Hard movie for portraying D&D players, Star Wars fans, and people who use computers as freaks living in their parents basement? I ask to determine the level to which your outrage at being sterotyped is consistant.
Those gosh-darn Gamers movies! We hates you!
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This is NOT about who you want for president. This is about prejudice and D&D being used as the 21st century equivalent of the "n" word. I hope there are a number of McCain supporters out there who are willing to take their candidate to task.
Are you serious? Please tell me I am reading this wrong: '21st century equivalent of the 'n' word'?
You believe that a couple of dumb jokes against DnD players by a staffer is the same as racism against generations of people? My friend you need to consider your posts - and thoughts - more carefully.
This is like comparing a splinter to a beheading...I agree with both David Fryer and Shadowborn on their 'counterposts'. D&D1979, your outrage is selective and your comparison is perposterous.
Well, I promised not to fulminate any more today, so I'll keep this short (for me).
I AM an Obama supporting D&D player, so it doesn't bother me to be labeled as such. It is, however, a bit annoying that the McCain staffer in question (Mr. Goldfarb) was playing on a stereotype of gamers as social misfits and implying that we are unpatriotic as a group. There are lots of gamers in the military, serving in Iraq, and others of us have served in previous wars. We may have been nerdy teens in high school, but we've grown up to be responsible, patriotic citizens.
I have plenty of respect for McCain's experience as a POW--that's making a pretty big sacrifice for your country--but I wish he'd show that he was more in touch with the men and women serving our country today, and those who have recently served and are having a rough go back here stateside. Mr. Goldfarb has taken a cheap shot at a hobby that is very popular among active military members and veterans, and his boss (Senator McCain) hasn't seen fit to remove the offending blog from his campaign website. Certainly not a gaffe as big as using the n-word, but doesn't display much sensitivity to an important constituency that Senator McCain claims to speak for, either. I spent six weeks in the middle of a naval minefield during the first Gulf War, and you're going to play on my presumed nerdiness (or worse) to score points with whom? The Christian right (some representatives of which, I am glad to see, also feel welcome on this board)? The jock types and party-heads who made fun of me in high school (most of whom have probably grown up and found better things to do now)? Pretty weak.
Mr. Goldfarb's apology was issued through another blog website, and the original offensive text remains up on the McCain campaign blog, with no hint of an apology. The apology, interestingly, strongly hinted that Mr. Goldfarb is conversant with D&D's rules, meaning he is either a closet gamer himself or a former high school nerd. To my mind, Mr. Goldfarb is a discredit to the McCain campaign, since he's doing exactly what the McCain campaign is generally blaming Obama of--saying one thing to one audience and another to another audience.
So Mr. Goldfarb seems to have at least played D&D a time or two. I'd be interested to know if he's actually served in the military, or if he merely presumes to be a spokesman for those of us who have.
In fairness, both campaigns' representatives have made disparaging comments about groups presumed to be largely in the other camp--Obama probably didn't do himself any favors with his remarks about rural people being attached to their guns and their religion back before the Pennsylvania primary. Personally, though, I think Obama has done a lot more to try to reach out to centrist voters (among whom I count myself) than McCain has. Where the tenor of Obama's acceptance speech was--"there are a lot of issues we disagree on, but there are a lot of things we can do to make America a better place if we can agree to compromise,"--the entire Republican convention seems to have been devoted to an uncompromising conservative agenda. Much more uncompromising, in fact, than Sen. McCain sounded earlier this year when he was trying to win the primary.
Okay, I think I've exceeded my allotted fulmination time, so I'll quit now. I'm sure it's bad for my health to get so worked up about a small blip that ought to be buried deeply in the inane noise of the blogosphere, so I think I'll tune out now and cast my ballot as originally planned on election day.
:p
I've always supported McCain. I've never really cared about Obama, and I'm just glad Clinton is gone.
I don't care what anyone says about a hobby. Are you really worried they're going to, I don't know, outlaw Dungeons and Dragons?
If that were to even come close to happening - they seem to target the brand. Not role-playing games. Pick a different system. Call it something different. I guess it's a good thing Pathfinder is out.
Even better... I can see it now.. bootleggers running games in the back of nightclubs. Cops wont be looking for stills - they will be looking for your printer.
I think it's a moronic thing to base your vote off of. But, that's my opinion.. I could be wrong.
Has anyone Stated McCain yet?
Can he steal thoughts?
Can he steal thoughts?
Yes.
I've always supported McCain. I've never really cared about Obama, and I'm just glad Clinton is gone.
I don't care what anyone says about a hobby. Are you really worried they're going to, I don't know, outlaw Dungeons and Dragons?
If that were to even come close to happening - they seem to target the brand. Not role-playing games. Pick a different system. Call it something different. I guess it's a good thing Pathfinder is out.
Even better... I can see it now.. bootleggers running games in the back of nightclubs. Cops wont be looking for stills - they will be looking for your printer.
I think it's a moronic thing to base your vote off of. But, that's my opinion.. I could be wrong.
It's not that we're worried about the game being outlawed - that would be ridiculous.
It's that the statement by Goldfarb is indicative of a mindset that many of us had hoped died out decades ago. It tells us that the Republican party structure doesn't pay attention to the younger generation and would just as soon deride us as anything else. And, of course, we usually let them get away with this sort of abuse because our generation is too apathetic to go out and vote for the administration we want anyway.
Rather than worry about a tiny blurb in a blog post by an aid, I am far more worried by the recent NFL ad airing starring Brian Urlacher. In it, he flashes back to a time when he was a skinny nerd in glasses dressed in medieval costume and is roundly made fun of by his peers. Only now that he has grown up to be a "manly man" is he cool.
Shown widely on tv, I believe this type of ad promotes an attitude of intolerance and carves dividions in society that do not need to be there. As mentioned in the political post, it certainly plays on the stereotype of nerdy, effete gamers, and goes further in overting suggesting that such people are inferior.
I find that it is this type of ad and message that leads to divisions of intolerance and violence. By promoting the stereotype of the gamer, it rules out any possibility that a gamer could be "masculine" and could have value to society. It's rare for a message to stir outrage in me, but something so blatantly divisive deserves contempt, especially when disseminated to a wide audience.
Here's a link to the ad:
Crap
I was also mistaken in that it is not a promo for the NFL but an ad for an Old Spice product.
I've always supported McCain. I've never really cared about Obama, and I'm just glad Clinton is gone.
I don't care what anyone says about a hobby. Are you really worried they're going to, I don't know, outlaw Dungeons and Dragons?
If that were to even come close to happening - they seem to target the brand. Not role-playing games. Pick a different system. Call it something different. I guess it's a good thing Pathfinder is out.
Even better... I can see it now.. bootleggers running games in the back of nightclubs. Cops wont be looking for stills - they will be looking for your printer.
I think it's a moronic thing to base your vote off of. But, that's my opinion.. I could be wrong.
It's not that we're worried about the game being outlawed - that would be ridiculous.
It's that the statement by Goldfarb is indicative of a mindset that many of us had hoped died out decades ago. It tells us that the Republican party structure doesn't pay attention to the younger generation and would just as soon deride us as anything else. And, of course, we usually let them get away with this sort of abuse because our generation is too apathetic to go out and vote for the administration we want anyway.
Except the comments by Obama fans shows they are just as firmily in that same mindset.