Pathfinder Elves and the Reverie


Ability Scores and Races


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As far as I have read in the elven race entry, the elves do no longer hold reverie, i.e. lie in a dream-like trance for four hours, to rest?

I think this may be an oversight due to size constraints of the beta, or it simply fell through the cracks, because in the 3.5 PHB the elves ability was mentioned in the physical description part.

But if possible, I´d like some clarification on this, as I got one elf in my group and I need to know if something is supposed to change.


Unless I recall incorrectly, Reverie was a forgotten realms term.

Anyway, I think the final book will have a lot more to tell about the races than the beta right now. Still, the immunity to sleep is still there, so it seems as if elves still use a restive sleep-like trance.


The realms elves were the first time I ever heard that term myself. Then the realms elves have alot in common with PF elves. OK there tall....


KaeYoss wrote:

Unless I recall incorrectly, Reverie was a forgotten realms term.

Anyway, I think the final book will have a lot more to tell about the races than the beta right now. Still, the immunity to sleep is still there, so it seems as if elves still use a restive sleep-like trance.

Naw, it's been around since well before the Realms setting ever saw print. It's the reason why they're resistant to sleep effects as they don't have to sleep in the same manner that other races do. Pathfinder may have just left it out because they may have assumed this to be a given as far as common knowledge goes, but I think it's just an oversight.


If i recall correctly, the Reverie was detailed in The Complete Book of Elves, for AD&D 2nd Edition.
It was not a Forgotten Realms supplement.
I happen to still use that concept, which is great for elven casters, for obvious reasons.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
magnuskn wrote:

As far as I have read in the elven race entry, the elves do no longer hold reverie, i.e. lie in a dream-like trance for four hours, to rest?

But if possible, I´d like some clarification on this, as I got one elf in my group and I need to know if something is supposed to change.

From a flavor standpoint the Reverie or something similar (different name etc...) makes sense for the Elves to be able to remember their otherworldly home in Sovyrian. The Elves of Golarion are a highly planar race (they have a massive network of multiplanar portals and lived on otherworlds) and if you were so inclined you could easily connect them to elves of other Campaign Settings, giving even more reason for the ability to be shared.


Seldriss wrote:

If i recall correctly, the Reverie was detailed in The Complete Book of Elves, for AD&D 2nd Edition.

It was not a Forgotten Realms supplement.
I happen to still use that concept, which is great for elven casters, for obvious reasons.

Which reasons? Preparing spells still requires 8 hours of rest. It's best for rogues and rangers, who can stay guard at night both much longer and (because of their good perception and low-light vision) much better than other characters.


So can elves still go without sleep, with only having to meditate for 4 hours?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
darth_borehd wrote:
So can elves still go without sleep, with only having to meditate for 4 hours?

Unless of course they're casters. in that case they still need thier 8 hours. Unless they're not planning on preparing any spells the next day.

The Exchange

LazarX wrote:
darth_borehd wrote:
So can elves still go without sleep, with only having to meditate for 4 hours?
Unless of course they're casters. in that case they still need thier 8 hours. Unless they're not planning on preparing any spells the next day.

I never play spellcasters, so I don't know what wacky rules they have, but if the requirement is 8 hours of sleep, then that requirement is met by the elf who meditates for 4 hours. If it's 8 hours of twiddling your thumbs and/or sleeping, then yes, elves would "still need their 8 hours" (4 hours of reverie to get the equivalent of 8 hours of sleep and 4 hours of twiddling thumbs).

From the 2nd edition Book of Elves: "The elf requires only four hours worth of sleep to be rested. This is especially valuable to spellcasters." Note: "sleep" is used loosely there and refers to the reverie.

Scarab Sages

From the 3.5 SRD:

SRD wrote:

Rest

To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If her rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time she has to rest in order to clear her mind, and she must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing her spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm not certain, but I believe the Elven "4 hours of meditation" thing is closed content I believe, so can't be included right out of the PHB. There's no info on it in the SRD at least.


LazarX wrote:
Unless of course they're casters. in that case they still need thier 8 hours. Unless they're not planning on preparing any spells the next day.

If they're casters, they just need 8 hours of rest. So they could meditate for 4 hours and then sit around reading lightly for four hours or something.

Anyway, I wanna bump this so it doesn't get forgotten. Elves should only need 4 hours of meditation rather than 8 hours of sleep!


Majuba wrote:
I'm not certain, but I believe the Elven "4 hours of meditation" thing is closed content I believe, so can't be included right out of the PHB. There's no info on it in the SRD at least.

IANAL, but I think the Elven Meditation idea comes from Tolkien, and he got it from various mythologies. I believe the Shidhe from Celtic myths don't really require much in the way of sleep and/or don't sleep (and don't have time pass in general) in the same way mortals do.

Given that this concept is present in myth, I'd say (again IANAL) that Pathfinder could certainly use the 4 hour meditation rule under Public Domain (not OGL). Basically I don't think that in this case "closed content" matters because elves not sleeping/meditating is popular myth and thus public domain (and precise rules aren't copyrightable).

-Polaris


Although I'm not familiar with the original myths, I can confirm that Tolkein's elves don't sleep in the same way as humans or other creatures. In fact, Legolas was able to continue walking while in his dream state, and usually only remained in one place while 'sleeping' because his companions needed to rest.


Frankly, I prefer Elves to be Tolkienesque rather than Gygaxian. That would probably make an elf a better "sorcerer" than "wizard" and could refresh his castings while meditating on whatever they think about. Walking, riding, or resting would all work for their restoration. Frail elves must come from European folklore.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

We talk about this a little in the upcoming Elves of Golarion Pathfinder Companion; basically, it's not the same as the Reverie, but it is something that supports the fact that elves are immune to sleep effects. They basically don't sleep, but meditate to replenish their energy. If you're a fan of Reverie, of course, it'll be super easy to just use that instead, since it's more or less the same thing.

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