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Welcome to the Beta Playtest


Announcements

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Paizo Employee Lead Designer

Welcome to the Beta Playtest of the Pathfinder RPG. I want to start off by thanking all of you who participated in the Alpha Playtest phase. Without your input, the Beta would not be where it is today. Over the next 8 months, we are going to be reviewing the Beta, chapter by chapter, looking for rules inconsistencies, errors, and problems. Using your input, we will refine these rules to create the finished version of the game, which is due out in August, 2009.

This forum is for posting announcements about the Pathfinder RPG, including updates and playtest periods. You can also use this forum to post up announcements about opportunities to play the game at local conventions and game days.

At the start, we'll look at some of the most basic parts of the Pathfinder RPG. The first playtest cycle is going to focus on the basic character generation rules (in chapter 2) and the races (in chapter 3). For threads dedicated to these topics, see the Design Forums. If you want to make general comments about the Pathfinder RPG, post them in the General Discussion Forum. If you want to post up playtest reports and stories from actual play experiences, post a thread to the Playtest Reports Forum.

I look forward to working with all of you to make the Pathfinder RPG the best it can be. Let's get started.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Thank you.


juboke wrote:
Thank you.

Seconded.

I can only speak for myself, but all of the hard work that you guys do is appreciated, and the fact that you have made the Alphas and the Betas publicly available. Thanks for the opportunity to contribute.

Good luck with GenCon!

Chobbly


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thanks Jason. Have fun stormin' the castle.

CJ

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Free at last, free at last, thank gawds allmighty we're free at last.

THANK YOU!

-DM Jeff


Thank you

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Over the next 8 months?

Contributor

Huzzah!

I got my download. Now I can start looking it over.

Thank you Paizo!

Cheliax

THANK YOU!

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Thank You Jason.

My productivity at work just took a nose dive, as I'll be reading the Beta for the next few days :)

Cheliax

Darrin Drader wrote:

Huzzah!

I got my download. Now I can start looking it over.

Thank you Paizo!

Gave up on mine. It was so sloooow. I guess some other people must have been trying to download at the same time as me :)

Hopefully there'll be a bit less traffic later.

Its great that you gyus got the Beta out on time, not that I expected anything different from you.

Cheliax

Thank you to everyone working on this project. The people at Paizo are nothing short of amazing!

Cheliax

The Beta looks good; I noticed that the store was closed for a bit, and I'm glad nobody is knocking you guys for it (as WOTC was for their "4dventure" stunt last year...). I've been reading the Alpha releases for a year now, and only just got a campaign started using the PF rules and am looking forward to playing it through!


My first reaction was I am going to have to get a copy of the print edition.

So many products so many months I'll have to wait to eventually buy each of them!

Cheers, looking forward to reading through it!


Thanx for such a fine product to keep our large 3rd and 3.5 resources still alive.

Andoran

Lets get those dice rolling all!
Thanks Jason
Thank you Paizo!


woo hoo!

(now what campaign do i run...decisions decisions....)

Andoran

je got my copy... still waiting for the physical copy to arrive, but i will be cheking the excellent PDF you gave us.

we will be pending in the playtesting... i insist 2 skills for the cleric doesn't take into account the time they study for being clerics... nor for the wizard

but i will wait for that... for know to read :D (and in the afternoon to play!)


Jason....we love you man! Just an idea. I think it would be nice to have a unique download count somewhere. Is that feasible? I love watching Paizo/Pathfinder become a phenomenon.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I don't see a Playtests Report Forum (yet?).

thanks!

I am encouraging some new players to use PfRPG rules to make new PCs for Second Darkness.

We are currently running the Darkmoon Vale Series (finishing TC1 atm) with PfRPG alpha and will incorporate changes from the Beta.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Thanks Gary(?) and the paizo web team for adding that in.


Thanks jason! My friends and me are so happy... I'll make the convertion of my campaign asap!

ps. but please change that HUGE boon to wizards... You know, you decreased the spell copying time from 1 day of study + 1 day writing to 1 HOUR study and 1 HOUR/level writing... It's HUGE...

anyway... Excellent job! ;)


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

Thanks, Jason!

My long-running 3.5 Forgotten Realms campaign just reached a conclusion, and we will be starting a new campaign using the Beta rules and running RotR. I can't wait to get started!!! I have a feeling I will be running only Pathfinder games set in Golarion from here on out. Paizo forever!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Since I don't see a Beta forum yet, I'll ask here.

Why 10/Evil DR for a Paladin? How is that an advantage when 90%+ of what they will fight will automatically by pass it?

How about 10/Chaotic? 10/Otherplanar? Something that might actually make their DR useful to have?

Other than that I really like the Paladin, Barbarian, Monk, etc... I think these write ups might keep players from using PrC's.

Nice job.

Plus I don't see how anyone can truthfully claim the races are "powered up". There probably will be some, but I won't agree with them.

Now I'll get back to reading the rest.

Taldor

Robert Miller 55 wrote:

Since I don't see a Beta forum yet, I'll ask here.

Why 10/Evil DR for a Paladin? How is that an advantage when 90%+ of what they will fight will automatically by pass it?

How about 10/Chaotic? 10/Otherplanar? Something that might actually make their DR useful to have?

Other than that I really like the Paladin, Barbarian, Monk, etc... I think these write ups might keep players from using PrC's.

Nice job.

Plus I don't see how anyone can truthfully claim the races are "powered up". There probably will be some, but I won't agree with them.

Now I'll get back to reading the rest.

What about 10/Good? That way they are protected against evil creatures they typically fight, but a truly good person can hurt them? Mind-controlled allies, rival paladins/clerics, etc would be their bane, not the Evil they are supposed to fight...


Thank you.


Sweet.

But, damn, still no Concentration skill, and Jump is still using DEX rather than STR like it should.

Oh, well. I'll see about giving it a whirl.


Awesome. I've already read the firt four chapters of the Beta and I must say I'm even moreimpressed than with the Beta. The Skills and Feats sections are next on my reading list.

Cheliax

Many, many thanks to all at Paizo for having faith in 3E fans and also having the courage to create the Pathfinder RPG -- not to mention that you're giving us the opportunity to openly participate playtesting it for a year and a half!

One comment about the mechanics here, even though I'm not sure if this is the right place for it: Jason, a very elegant solution to make the bonuses from some skills and feats "scale up" with skill ranks -- brilliant! :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Disciple of Sakura wrote:

Sweet.

But, damn, still no Concentration skill, and Jump is still using DEX rather than STR like it should.

Oh, well. I'll see about giving it a whirl.

Spellcraft now covers "concentration checks". Makes sense to me. I always thought it was stupid to have to devote skill ranks to such a singular check. So I applaud rolling it into Spellcraft.

You guys missed definitions for "TAke 10" and "Take 20", at least I couldn't find them.

So make sure to get it into the final PF version.

Or just get rid of them. I never liked them. If it was a take 10 or take 20 situation I just said they succeeded without any rolls. Plus I have always thought it was total baloney to be able to take 20 on finding traps.


Thank you very much! Very-very:)


Robert Miller 55 wrote:
Spellcraft now covers "concentration checks". Makes sense to me. I always thought it was stupid to have to devote skill ranks to such a singular check. So I applaud rolling it into Spellcraft.

Yes, that argument has been made. But a lot more people have argued that Concentration, which is necessary for Psionic Focus, Diamond Mind, and using skills while avoiding attacks of opportunity, should be kept, less have made a compelling case for keeping Spellcraft a separate skill from the Knowledges. Especially since rolling Concentration into an INT based skill favors wizards, who really don't need the help.

Seriously, there were at least three threads on the subject during the Alpha 3 playtest when I joined the forum. And it was frequently raised or supported in the "what one thing would you change in the Alpha?" thread.


Disciple of Sakura wrote:
Robert Miller 55 wrote:
Spellcraft now covers "concentration checks"...

Yes, that argument has been made. But a lot more people have argued that Concentration, which is necessary for Psionic Focus, Diamond Mind, and using skills while avoiding attacks of opportunity, should be kept, less have made a compelling case for keeping Spellcraft a separate skill from the Knowledges.

...
Seriously, there were at least three threads on the subject during the Alpha 3 playtest when I joined the forum. And it was frequently raised or supported in the "what one thing would you change in the Alpha?" thread.

Yeah, I'm also disappointed that this was never really acknowledged or addressed in the Beta, or by most designers on the forums (although I can see you guys have been busy!). Most comments I read argued for either keeping Concentration as a skill, for more applications than just spellcasting, or using some sort of modified Will save in its place; very few in favour of the current Spellcraft awkwardness. Fortunately, these and other inconsistencies with psionics aren't too difficult to modify with houserules ("Spellcraft skill? what Spellcraft skill?").

Otherwise, I'm really excited about the new races & classes, and simplified rules in other areas. Thanks for all the hard work, and please keep participating in the discussions, even the topics you're not interested in, like Concentration ;-)


Perhaps if it was 1 hour/level to study and then 1 hour/level to write it... That seems more balanced.

Hayden wrote:

Thanks jason! My friends and me are so happy... I'll make the convertion of my campaign asap!

ps. but please change that HUGE boon to wizards... You know, you decreased the spell copying time from 1 day of study + 1 day writing to 1 HOUR study and 1 HOUR/level writing... It's HUGE...

anyway... Excellent job! ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Spellcraft Skill=PsiCraft skill. Pretty easy fix, IMO.

So Spellcasters have Spellcraft, Psionic types have PsiCraft. Pure genius.

Edit: Plus I would be all good with rolling Knowledge Arcana into it as well. Its not like skills are "game breakers", so consolidating skills as much as possible isn't going to make any character overwhelmingly powerful because their skills cover too much. Besides, there would be so much overlap between these three skills (Spellcraft, Concentration, Knowledge Arcana) that saying they are separated enough to be different skills is too much of a stretch for my sense of logic. Besides, Wizards and Priests are 2+INT bonus. Not that strong in skills.

The Psi types have the same, right? So rolling Concentration, PsiCraft, Knowledge Psionics all into one skill would be good for them as well.


Robert Miller 55 wrote:

Spellcraft Skill=PsiCraft skill. Pretty easy fix, IMO.

So Spellcasters have Spellcraft, Psionic types have PsiCraft. Pure genius.

Edit: Plus I would be all good with rolling Knowledge Arcana into it as well. Its not like skills are "game breakers", so consolidating skills as much as possible isn't going to make any character overwhelmingly powerful because their skills cover too much. Besides, there would be so much overlap between these three skills (Spellcraft, Concentration, Knowledge Arcana) that saying they are separated enough to be different skills is too much of a stretch for my sense of logic. Besides, Wizards and Priests are 2+INT bonus. Not that strong in skills.

The Psi types have the same, right? So rolling Concentration, PsiCraft, Knowledge Psionics all into one skill would be good for them as well.

Yes, I'm in the bring back Concentration camp, folding in Autohypnosis as well. But, as long as you're consolidating skills anyway, I would even support the 4e "1 skill to rule them all" and have Religion/Arcana/Psionics/Martial Lore rather than Knowledge+Concentration+'X'Craft.

Perhaps if Concentration must be flushed, do the Religion/Arcana/Psionics/Martial Lore bit and add Endurance [including autohypnosis] as well. Hm, I may try that variant in our games. We've already folded swim/jump/climb into Athletics. [Rule of thumb; If a class has any two of them in its list, it gets Athletics instead.]


I am about to start a Ravenloft Campaign using the PFBeta and so looking forward to giving feedback on the rules.

Cheers
Mark

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I didn't notice this until I went to work today....

BETA RELEASE [GENERAL]

Prerequisites: Pathfinder Beta Release, Gamers you work with, a serious lack of oversight
Benefit: While waiting for your Softcover Pathfinder Beta Playtest to be delivered, you may redirect the resources of your entire publications department to print, copy, and bind the Beta .pdf for upcoming games, editing, and playtest-review. You may continue to do this as long as several of your players run the publications department. Your company will continue to pay them there normal wage while these resources are diverted.
Normal: You must wait for your Beta Release to be delivered before you read it without the use of a computer.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Spiral_Ninja wrote:


Perhaps if Concentration must be flushed, do the Religion/Arcana/Psionics/Martial Lore bit and add Endurance [including autohypnosis] as well. Hm, I may try that variant in our games. We've already folded swim/jump/climb into Athletics. [Rule of thumb; If a class has any two of them in its list, it gets Athletics instead.]

I'm good with that. Like I said, I have never found skills to come even close to being "game breakers". I am not familiar with Autohypnosis, but if it has plenty of "overlap" in its write up, then add it. Why Endurance, though?

Athletics is a great idea. I've been entertaining that idea because that is how L5R handles such skill bundles. Of course they also have a focus, where you spend additional points to get to add your rank to any rolls involving the focus. I may do that and get rid of Take 10 and Take 20.


i cant tell you how much my players have been looking forward to the Beta version. Weve already worn out the two copies i made of the Alpha version and are looking forward to putting this new one through it's paces. Keep up the good work.

Silver Crusade

In September I'll start AOWAP with Pathfinder characters, and I'll publish the results of the campaign/playtest on the boards.
I hope the printed edition will reach my mailbox before we start. ;-)

Oh, by the way... Thank you!

Cheliax

We are already playing our campaign in pathfinder alpha with some minor tweaks (no iterative attacks) , but we are going to convert to Beta as soon as i come back from Gencon to spain and help you guys.

It was a pleasure to attend to your seminaries, even if i had to sit at the floor most of the time :D

Oh and.. thanks for your work, its great!

Andoran

Yes thank you. 4E is like MMLRPG. multiplayer massive live role-playing game. It is too restricted for me. It looks more restricted than Ad&D. in character creation/ growth. Though this is for a different thread.

Again thank you for improving and keeping D20 alive.

Andoran

Im currently running a tabletop game that will be converting to Pathfinder 100% they are 6th level currently...and am starting Rise of the Runelords and additionally will be starting an 8th level game..So Ill be sure and post thoughts during the playtest period.

Thanks again guys and gals.

Osirion

I plan on running my local gaming group (college Guild) through a Beta game, I figure we will test some of the conversions for Forgotten Realms, but I am tempted to buy the Pathfinder campaign setting. As 4e Realms is just corrupt to me.

But congrats on a great game, and selling out a gencon. Wish I had bought that goblin shirt when I saw it the first time!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

beta playtest starting next week. Playtest report coming soon!


Hey fellas, am I the only person who has downloaded this pdf and has no text on roughly every other page? I've never had this problem with the Alpha downloads?

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Presto2112 wrote:
Hey fellas, am I the only person who has downloaded this pdf and has no text on roughly every other page? I've never had this problem with the Alpha downloads?

It's a problem a few people have had. Update your PDF viewer.


IconoclasticScream wrote:
It's a problem a few people have had. Update your PDF viewer.

Thanks, that's all I needed...


Mr. Bulmahn & Company,

I now have in my possession a hard copy of the Pathfinder Beta Playtest book, and I am Extremely Pleased with what you gentlemen and ladies have put together. I confess that I had not kept up with the Pathfinder Alpha boards extensively. I (perhaps naively) assumed you'd get it "right"; and sure enough, you have indeed got it "right".

Not yet having read the book, I have little to offer in terms of feedback, save perhaps one. Please SCRAP the 'Find the Path' spell altogether. This Killer GM for one is quite tired of my pampered players going right to the objective with the use of one miserable spell, that I can do little to thwart (without banning it outright, which will only increase the whining and complaints from the lads...).


What is the damage report on hardcopies of the Beta Playtest and, as an addendum, those lovely color Goblin t-shirts again ?

I caught wind of there not being a sufficient number of the former at Paizo's warehouse and promptly ordered a few more copies. A more solid statistic would be a welcome excuse to exercise bragging rights, imo.

Congratulations on getting the beastie in gear gentlecritters!

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