Aroden Death


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Are any plans in the future to reveal the cause of the Aroden's death?

What are the principal teories in the death of the last of first humans?

The Exchange

I think that it has been said before that Aroden's Death is similar to Eberron's Mournland - the setting's big secret which will probably never be revealed.

I'm not too sure about it, but that's what comes to my mind regarding your question.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

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We have no plans to delve into this in the near future.

The details are shrouded in mystery.


Aroden's Death was a result of a war between the God's and Rova-Gug. Arodden sacrificed himself to once again contain the chaos God once more. The children of man were also involved in the war.

Liberty's Edge

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Starfinder Superscriber

My theory: Aaroden died because of PLAP ("Paizo's Last Adventure Path"). As the world is coming apart at the seams, the Pathfinder Society finds it self as the last, best hope for mankind. They put together a group of PCs to figure out what's happening. Those PCs, in book 6 of the adventure path, travel back in time and are forced to kill Aroden.

This effectively closes the book on Golarion. After that, Paizo dedicates itself to the publication of My Little Pony fanfic.


The sacrifice Aroden made to contain the chaos god is part of an adventure. The PC's witness the dath and the war between the gods and Rova-Gug at the end. When the PC's return it is 20 years into the future and Cheliax has already turned to pacts with Devils. This adventure however occurs before the current date of the setting.


Tigit wrote:
The sacrifice Aroden made to contain the chaos god is part of an adventure. The PC's witness the dath and the war between the gods and Rova-Gug at the end. When the PC's return it is 20 years into the future and Cheliax has already turned to pacts with Devils. This adventure however occurs before the current date of the setting.

You're getting a lot wrong here. Aroden became a god long after Rovagug was imprisoned.


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Yeah, the Rovagug battle massively predates Aroden's existence.


Talynonyx wrote:
Tigit wrote:
The sacrifice Aroden made to contain the chaos god is part of an adventure. The PC's witness the dath and the war between the gods and Rova-Gug at the end. When the PC's return it is 20 years into the future and Cheliax has already turned to pacts with Devils. This adventure however occurs before the current date of the setting.
You're getting a lot wrong here. Aroden became a god long after Rovagug was imprisoned.

Just because Rova-Gug was imprisoned before does not mean he did not escape and have to be imprisoned again. Just because the mortals of the world do not know of the war to reimprison him does not mean it did not occur.


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Rovagug is imprisoned inside Golarion. If he got out, someone would notice.


Orthos wrote:
Rovagug is imprisoned inside Golarion. If he got out, someone would notice.

Rova-Gug's escape was pre-cursered by the arrival of one of his spawn ( The Tarrasque ).

Silver Crusade

According to James Jacobs they do know the fate of Aroden but they are highly unlikely to ever reveal what it is.

To make things extra specially fun Paizo have apparently dropped some very subtle hints as to his eventual fate in various products.

What we do know is that the Worldwound and the Eye of Abendego appeared at exactly the same time Aroden was supposed to appear in Westcrown and that prophecy ceased to be accurate. Pharasma has also said that Aroden appeared before her to be judged.

If Pharasma is telling the truth then Aroden is dead. What caused his death and what he was doing at the time is a mystery.

One thing to point out is that if you "follow the money" so to speak then the chief suspect is Asmodeus as he has gained the most from Aroden's death and has previously killed a god. Another (albeit unlikely) suspect is Tar Baphon, the Whispering Tyrant as he hates Aroden more than anyone.


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And? The Spawn are so minute compared to Rovagug himself that they're barely a blip on the cosmic radar. A group of four level-20 PCs can take out the Tarrasque with proper planning, equipment, tools, and a bit of luck. Big R required the collective cooperation of ALL THE GODS just to lock away. And he took a few of them down before they managed it.

Rovagug getting loose is not the kind of thing that gets ignored, missed out on, or forgotten. All the gods would be on Highest Terror Threat Level red alert, just like the last time Big R rampaged around, and rushing to get him back in his cage. Every single one - the old guard (Asmodeus, Sarenrae, Erastil, Abadar, etc.) know just how bad this guy is when he's free, and the new bloods (Cayden, Iomedae, etc.) would have heard of him from their peers and predecessors. Every cleric on the freakin' planet would get a blaring klaxon from their patron saying "All hell is about to break/has broken loose". (Or, for Rovagug's, "IT IS TIME TO KILL EVERYTHING.")

Also you said "the children of man were involved in this war". Meaning unless every single participating mortal died, someone walked away from that battle to tell the tale =P

Paizo's been pretty good about avoiding things where "this thing happened but no one ever knows about it". They've been mysterious about events in the past, but it's always been knowledge that something occurred, even if the details are well-hidden or blurred by secondhand tellings, foggy memories, or magical interference.

Seriously, I'm all for tossing up crazy Aroden Death theories, but at least make an effort to have them make sense in the context of the setting.

Silver Crusade

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The last time Rovagug got out it took every other god to imprison him in an apocalyptic level conflict.

There is no way that Rovagug sneaked out without anyone noticing. Rovagug is an engine of pure destruction, if he were to be released it would cause obvious and untold devastation on a cataclysmic scale. He doesn't do anything sneakily or with subtlety.

In short, no it wasn't Rovagug.


Orthos wrote:

And? The Spawn are so minute compared to Rovagug himself that they're barely a blip on the cosmic radar. A group of four level-20 PCs can take out the Tarrasque with proper planning, equipment, tools, and a bit of luck. Big R required the collective cooperation of ALL THE GODS just to lock away. And he took a few of them down before they managed it.

Rovagug getting loose is not the kind of thing that gets ignored, missed out on, or forgotten. All the gods would be on Highest Terror Threat Level red alert, just like the last time Big R rampaged around, and rushing to get him back in his cage. Every single one - the old guard (Asmodeus, Sarenrae, Erastil, Abadar, etc.) know just how bad this guy is when he's free, and the new bloods (Cayden, Iomedae, etc.) would have heard of him from their peers and predecessors. Every cleric on the freakin' planet would get a blaring klaxon from their patron saying "All hell is about to break/has broken loose". (Or, for Rovagug's, "IT IS TIME TO KILL EVERYTHING.")

Also you said "the children of man were involved in this war". Meaning unless every single participating mortal died, someone walked away from that battle to tell the tale =P

Paizo's been pretty good about avoiding things where "this thing happened but no one ever knows about it". They've been mysterious about events in the past, but it's always been knowledge that something occurred, even if the details are well-hidden or blurred by secondhand tellings, foggy memories, or magical interference.

Seriously, I'm all for tossing up crazy Aroden Death theories, but at least make an effort to have them make sense in the context of the setting.

Not tossing out theories. This world was originaly created back in the early nineties. The original campaign was three heroes that ended up involved in the God's war with chaos ( Rova-Gug as its called now ). They were present when Aroden sacrificed himself to imprison the chaos god once again. Upon there arrival they were heralded as the children of man. Three other chosen did the final imprisoning, a hero of the past, one of the present and one of the future. The original three heros returned to the mortal world and twenty years had passed. These three heroes were also the ones who defeated the Tarrasque when it showed up.

Dark Archive

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I have every piece of Golarion lore and you are just making things up.


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Tigit wrote:
Not tossing out theories.

. . .


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Snark aside, you're quite incorrect.

Golarion started out partially based on James Jacobs's homebrew world which has been worked on for over 30 years - placing it sometime in the early 80s, not 90s - combined with the additional input and creations from the rest of Paizo, which itself was not founded until 2002, far too late to have been together to create Golarion for a campaign "created back in the early nineties".

So unless you're saying you played a game under James Jacobs in the early nineties that was set in his homebrew (which wasn't Golarion yet, at least not the Golarion we have today) where all that stuff happened - and even if it did, which seems excessively unlikely, that doesn't mean it's still canon for the published, composite world of Golarion as it is now - I'd have to say you're doing a rather poor job of pulling our legs, sir.

Isn't this the second time in a week someone's showed up claiming to have insider knowledge on Paizo/Pathfinder/Golarion? And had their dates off and their information skeptical?


FallofCamelot wrote:
One thing to point out is that if you "follow the money" so to speak then the chief suspect is Asmodeus as he has gained the most from Aroden's death and has previously killed a god. Another (albeit unlikely) suspect is Tar Baphon, the Whispering Tyrant as he hates Aroden more than anyone.

Gained the most? What about Iomadae?

Wouldn't that be a twist if she cut a deal with Asmodeus to kill Aroden and assume his powers?

With none the wiser........


Orthos wrote:

Snark aside, you're quite incorrect.

Golarion started out partially based on James Jacobs's homebrew world which has been worked on for over 30 years - placing it sometime in the early 80s, not 90s - combined with the additional input and creations from the rest of Paizo, which itself was not founded until 2002, far too late to have been together to create Golarion for a campaign "created back in the early nineties".

So unless you're saying you played a game under James Jacobs in the early nineties that was set in his homebrew (which wasn't Golarion yet, at least not the Golarion we have today) where all that stuff happened - and even if it did, which seems excessively unlikely, that doesn't mean it's still canon for the published, composite world of Golarion as it is now - I'd have to say you're doing a rather poor job of pulling our legs, sir.

Isn't this the second time in a week someone's showed up claiming to have insider knowledge on Paizo/Pathfinder/Golarion? And had their dates off and their information skeptical?

Whatever you say dude. I know my information is accurate because it comes from my memory. I did not play under James Jacob's but I played under another DM who's world bears an incredible resembly to Golarion. I played back in the early nineties and was one of the three heroes mentioned before. It was played in D & D second edition. The afore mentioned DM detailed out his world and put it on open source, which I aided him in some areas along with others.


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Wraithcannon wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:
One thing to point out is that if you "follow the money" so to speak then the chief suspect is Asmodeus as he has gained the most from Aroden's death and has previously killed a god. Another (albeit unlikely) suspect is Tar Baphon, the Whispering Tyrant as he hates Aroden more than anyone.

Gained the most? What about Iomadae?

Wouldn't that be a twist if she cut a deal with Asmodeus to kill Aroden and assume his powers?

With none the wiser........

Pretty sure she wouldn't be an LG goddess of valor, justice, honor, and rulership in that case. So I'd say this didn't happen at all.

Dark Archive

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Orthos wrote:

Snark aside, you're quite incorrect.

Golarion started out partially based on James Jacobs's homebrew world which has been worked on for over 30 years - placing it sometime in the early 80s, not 90s - combined with the additional input and creations from the rest of Paizo, which itself was not founded until 2002, far too late to have been together to create Golarion for a campaign "created back in the early nineties".

So unless you're saying you played a game under James Jacobs in the early nineties that was set in his homebrew (which wasn't Golarion yet, at least not the Golarion we have today) where all that stuff happened - and even if it did, which seems excessively unlikely, that doesn't mean it's still canon for the published, composite world of Golarion as it is now - I'd have to say you're doing a rather poor job of pulling our legs, sir.

Isn't this the second time in a week someone's showed up claiming to have insider knowledge on Paizo/Pathfinder/Golarion? And had their dates off and their information skeptical?

If memory serves it was based on various bits from various Paizo staff either from homebrews or created whole cloth for the setting so yeah at best coincidence.


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Tigit wrote:
Orthos wrote:

Snark aside, you're quite incorrect.

Golarion started out partially based on James Jacobs's homebrew world which has been worked on for over 30 years - placing it sometime in the early 80s, not 90s - combined with the additional input and creations from the rest of Paizo, which itself was not founded until 2002, far too late to have been together to create Golarion for a campaign "created back in the early nineties".

So unless you're saying you played a game under James Jacobs in the early nineties that was set in his homebrew (which wasn't Golarion yet, at least not the Golarion we have today) where all that stuff happened - and even if it did, which seems excessively unlikely, that doesn't mean it's still canon for the published, composite world of Golarion as it is now - I'd have to say you're doing a rather poor job of pulling our legs, sir.

Isn't this the second time in a week someone's showed up claiming to have insider knowledge on Paizo/Pathfinder/Golarion? And had their dates off and their information skeptical?

Whatever you say dude. I know my information is accurate because it comes from my memory. I did not play under James Jacob's but I played under another DM who's world bears an incredible resembly to Golarion. I played back in the early nineties and was one of the three heroes mentioned before. It was played in D & D second edition. The afore mentioned DM detailed out his world and put it on open source, which I aided him in some areas along with others.

Whatever you say dude.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

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What was the name of this DM, Tigit?

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Iomedae has struck me as the innocent beneficiary of Aroden's passing, but she probably doesn't mind the power-up, nor the change in the power from LN Aroden to her own LG agenda.

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Has there ever been any report of Norgerber's reaction to Aroden's murder?

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To follow the money and see who benefitted from Aroden's death, we'd want more information on the types of prophesies that were floating around a hundred-fifty years ago. Aroden's passing voided all of them, and we might be able to discern who were fated to be the big losers if the timeline of the prophesies had been followed.

Two other notes: (1) pay attention to the eyeless krakens.

(2) Mengkare had already devoted immense resources to improve humanity during the period when Aroden and his "Golden Age of Humanity" were predicted to arrive and either interrupt or trivialize the great experiencent. If you're looking for a very powerful force who knew ahead of time that Aroden's death would benefit it, note the Gold Dragon of Hermea.

Silver Crusade

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Chris Mortika wrote:
Has there ever been any report of Norgerber's reaction to Aroden's murder?

Has there ever been any report of Norgorber's reaction to anything?

Liberty's Edge

I'm thinking of having an end-of-days campaign for my 20th level group, whenceupon Tar-Baphon is released, and Lastwall nearly falls. The PCs go back in time (where Aroden is fighting the WT for reasons unknown) pull him to the present (so, while not dead, absent, putting us in our predicament) and then calling down the gods and slaughtering orc.

What exactly is Aroden's favored weapon? I never learnt.


lucky7 wrote:

I'm thinking of having an end-of-days campaign for my 20th level group, whenceupon Tar-Baphon is released, and Lastwall nearly falls. The PCs go back in time (where Aroden is fighting the WT for reasons unknown) pull him to the present (so, while not dead, absent, putting us in our predicament) and then calling down the gods and slaughtering orc.

What exactly is Aroden's favored weapon? I never learnt.

Longsword.


For my own campaign, when I finally get around to running it, it will turn out that Aroden did not die. He faked his death to secretly investigate some sinister goings-on in the universe. However, when he does finally return, he will have changed, becoming corrupted by the same elder gods who nailed Zon-Kuthon. Aroden (with a new name) and ZK will unite to bring about the return of these elder gods and usher in a new regime, attempting to take out the old gods by releasing Rovagug. It will be up to the heroes (by that point 20+) to travel back in time to before Aroden disappeared in an attempt to prevent his departure in the first place.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Orthos wrote:


Isn't this the second time in a week someone's showed up claiming to have insider knowledge on Paizo/Pathfinder/Golarion? And had their dates off and their information skeptical?

You didn't know? February is Pazio Misinformation Month.

Liberty's Edge

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Therrin wrote:


Whatever you say dude. I know my information is accurate because it comes from my memory. I did not play under James Jacob's but I played under another DM who's world bears an incredible resembly to Golarion. I played back in the early nineties and was one of the three heroes mentioned before. It was played in D & D second edition. The afore mentioned DM detailed out his world and put it on open source, which I aided him in some areas along with others.

So to sum up, you believe you are correct about what happened to Aroden because you remember playing with some guy who was not James Jacobs in a world that was not Golarion, in an edition that predates the predecessor to Pathfinder.

Damn near irrefutable evidence. Of what I have no idea, but I can't refute it being...something.


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My pet theory? Aroden got his power from the Starstone. Unbeknownst to anyone, any god that exalts by exposure to the Starstone eventually becomes enormously unstable, eventually exploding in a planes-shredding explosion. Aroden was the first. The clock is ticking on Norgorber, Cayden Caylean and the others.

Remember the Starstone is not a nice thing. It is not our friend. The aboleths dropped it on the world to punish us for our hubris. What if the real punishment wasn't the Age of Darkness--what if that was just the duststorm kicked off by its arrival. What if the real curse was that they knew we'd use it's power to become gods, and then eventually that same unstable power would doom us all?


Chris Mortika wrote:
Two other notes: (1) pay attention to the eyeless krakens.

Can you/anyone elaborate on this?

Paizo Employee Developer

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Since no one from Paizo has chimed in here yet, and since I'm something of a continuity wonk, I'll jump on the grenade. The theory presented by the OP is not what happened to Aroden. The details of his death are written in a super-secret password-protected file here in Paizo HQ, and the words expressed on this thread and those in the aforementioned document are not the same.

There's nothing further to see here.

These aren't the droids you're looking for.


Didn't think so (by OP I assume you mean Tigit/Therrin, since the actual OP Artemis Segundo didn't actually posit a theory >_>) but it's nice to have the official sayso from a Paizonian =D

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mark Moreland wrote:

Since no one from Paizo has chimed in here yet, and since I'm something of a continuity wonk, I'll jump on the grenade. The theory presented by the OP is not what happened to Aroden. The details of his death are written in a super-secret password-protected file here in Paizo HQ, and the words expressed on this thread and those in the aforementioned document are not the same.

There's nothing further to see here.

These aren't the droids you're looking for.

And so it was written that the tale shall not be told till that dread day that the Lisa shall Command the Jacob and and then Silence Will Fall.

Tell James if he sees any headless Monks in his neighborhood to start running fast.


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LazarX wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:

Since no one from Paizo has chimed in here yet, and since I'm something of a continuity wonk, I'll jump on the grenade. The theory presented by the OP is not what happened to Aroden. The details of his death are written in a super-secret password-protected file here in Paizo HQ, and the words expressed on this thread and those in the aforementioned document are not the same.

There's nothing further to see here.

These aren't the droids you're looking for.

And so it was written that the tale shall not be told till that dread day that the Lisa shall Command the Jacob and and then Silence Will Fall.

Tell James if he sees any headless Monks in his neighborhood to start running fast.

"GET YOUR COAT."

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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There are no secret files. That's a blatant lie.

Liberty's Edge

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James Jacobs wrote:
There are no secret files. That's a blatant lie.

They are "Super Secret" :)

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

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We don't know what happened to Aroden.

My personal theory.

Spoiler:
Suicide by deity. Aroden found out that his arrive would frak things up somehow. Maybe an end to magic? Maybe the Age of Man referred to something else? The only way to stop the Bad Thing from coming to pass would be to keep the return from happening. As a god of prophesy, when he did this (working to keep a prophesy from passing) the paradox unmade him. Maybe to be dispersed into the ether, maybe to be reborn as a mortal who knows?

Now here's the thought. Considering all the events that happened with his death, what could have been destined to happen that was worse?

Sovereign Court

Nah, he didn't die, he just went to visit Pharasma and the paperwork got a little mixed up ...

Silver Crusade

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Per James Jacobs, "There are no secret files" is a blatent lie.

Paizo Employee Developer

Yes, by OP, I meant the OP who resurrected the thread.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Mark Moreland wrote:
... the words expressed on this thread and those in the aforementioned document are not the same.

Forgotten the lesson of Norgorber's visage the Yoda has.


Perhaps his essence was put back in a greygem by an irrepressible halfling like character while the Queen took the world away?

Verdant Wheel

Aroden died so that adventurers could exist in this world. That because there isn´t any possibility of adventuring in the past.

Sovereign Court

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My personal theory? Aroden reached the maximum possible level allowed by the GM, and thus had to retire and a new character had to be rolled up.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

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Matthew Morris wrote:
Now here's the thought. Considering all the events that happened with his death, what could have been destined to happen that was worse?

The campaign world's full name, from the earliest documents, is Abeir-Golarion ...

Sczarni

Orthos wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
Two other notes: (1) pay attention to the eyeless krakens.
Can you/anyone elaborate on this?

I beleive its the inner sea world guide has said that on or around the day the clerics of arroden lost their power, some dead eyeless krakens washed ashore somewhere

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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The eyeless krakens washed ashore on the Isle of Kortos in the year 4700 AR, some 94 years after Aroden's death.

They are ABSOLUTELY foreshadowing something I've got planned for the future, but that event doesn't really have anything to do with Aroden's death at all.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Well, fie.

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