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Hi guys. Looking for some guidance really.
Im currently dming a 3.5 forgotten realms campaign set in Waterdeep. A few other players and myself have been lured to the darkside by pathfinder and as such have talked about converting to the pathfinder alpha then beta rules mid campaign.
what im looking for is advice from people who have either done this or are planning it and what their ideas are and problems if any they have encountered.
the most obvious ones I can see is the PCS themselves. now for most PCs this isnt going to be a problem, however one player has a duskblade...what are the suggestions to converting a character that isnt in the PRPG or should I just leave him as is? Feats etc should be easy enough as well as skills
the other thing is characters are fractionally more powerful using pathfinder rules. not game breaking certainly but how do other people adjust monsters/creatures appropriately so that they are still a challenge.
thats all I can think of at the moment. Bear in mind that as of yet we havent tried out the pathfinder rules in a game so if there are other issues that people have found please let me know and also if there are absolutely no problems then id like to know too.
My group will be using pathfinder for any forthcoming games but this is the only ne were trying to convert. Im seeing if it is feasable or whether id be better off finishing this campaign before changing.
Ta
Rich
For PCs with core classes, the adjustment should be easy.
For monsters, I'd suggest that you as the DM give each monster a few extra HD and/or class levels to bring it's CR up by a notch or two. For mob encounters, just increase the number of monsters.
For PCs with non-core classes, it depends. For some of the more broken classes/prestige classes, no adjustment is necessary, and the point was to bring the core up to their level. For others, you can give them new toys. I don't know enough about the duskblade to make that call. In all likelyhood, if you just up his feats (and HD?) appropriately, it'll at least be 'close enough'.
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Honestly I would not change non-core PCs at all. Through the years power creep has increased the power of non-core classes a lot, which is one reason Pathfinder PCs are more powerful. If it is an older class I might add some extra abilities to increase their power.
The rest is easily changed and I would do so as soon as Beta is released.
The other thing I would change is to quit FR and use Golarion instead. :)
Honestly, there is nothing new and interesting in FR, you will need to fast forward 100 years soon unless you want to do the work in between anyway. Golarion presents a fresh new look at a game world and is full of wonder and excitement. Face it, every one knows pretty much all there ever will be to know about FR. There is nothing new and exciting there.
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Feats and skills conversion is quite easy. I updated a bunch of old 3.0 characters to AR2 with almost no effort.
Regarding the duskblade, it has been discussed in a number of threads (such as this), and the general consensus is that the class doesn't really need any adjustement in power level, as the core classes have been upgraded just to stay on the same range as the newer ones from PHII and other splatbooks. The major hassle is deciding the class skills list. ;-)
Regarding monsters/creatures, it's a bit of a gut feeling trick.
I DMed the aforementioned upgraded characters in an old Dungeon adventure (Glacial Season), where the average encounter level was a bit higher than expected (14° level characters against an average CR/EL 15), using a standard "fast" feat progression for monsters such as that used for character classes, instead of the suggested slower one.
I noticed that usually monsters are balanced, and creatures with class levels are a bit more lethal than usual. Bigger nasties such as dragons can get the most from the CMB mechanic, pinning, bull-rushing and sundering with frightening ease.
So, if you have a party of 4° level characters don't be afraid of using CR 5 creatures as a standard enemy; if you have lower CR creatures you can add add some critters - cohorts, minions, meatshields - to beef up the EL a notch, or just advance their HDs. If possible add class levels, but be careful with that: even a handful of fighter, rogue, barbarian or sorcerer levels can really become a nastier than expected surprise.
We're still in process of making the switch. Some characters are fully changed over and others aren't, which makes for some interesting discussion at the table, mostly revolving around skills. We chose to change over gradually, first changing turn undead, then feats. We're close to switching over to using CMB. For non-core classes, while you get the new feat progression and all, we have chosen not to change the class features. No balance problems with that so far.
Our group is starting another campaign soon, and we're going to alternate between the two. I'm having them make the new characters by Pathfinder rules. Hopefully this will get the rest of the players familiar with the rules enough that we'll be able to smoothly complete the transistion in the other campaign. Making the change gradually has deifnitely been the right choice for us since most of our group don't have a lot of free time to learn new rules.
We are also converting a 3.5 game to Pathfinder.
Other than changing the skills and feats required or granted, no adjustment to "alternative" classes like duskblade are done.
One reason is that the splat books (I'm including PHB II) classes were generally more powerful than their 3.5 SRD counterparts. PFRPG just levels the playing field more.
The other reason is too encourage characters to take the PFRPG core classes. For purposes of campaign flavour, the splat book classes are supposed to be uncommon or rare. Thus, you are more likely to encounter a multiclass fighter/wizard in the campaign world than a duskblade.
Skill requirements for Feat and Prestige classes work like this:
1) subtract 3 from required skill ranks to get the new number
2) If it is a class skill, the new number is all you need, minimum 1
3) If it is not a class skill, double the original number and subtract 3
Honestly I would not change non-core PCs at all. Through the years power creep has increased the power of non-core classes a lot, which is one reason Pathfinder PCs are more powerful. If it is an older class I might add some extra abilities to increase their power.
I wouldn't say this really applies. For classes such as the *shudders* Duskblade, or classes from TOB. But I've found most non-core classes to actually be weaker than core ones.
Hexblade for instance, the writer has actually fully admitted that if he foresaw books like PHBII being relesesed, he would have made far more powerful.I'm hearing no end to the arguments of how weak the CW samurai is.
What about Marshal? A paladin under Paizo can do what he does...with -other- classe features on top.
And one last point...go to any gamming forum (this forum is probably included) and ask, in terms of power, the most powerful classes, and I promise, the top 3 will be core.
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I think most the Non-Core classes need slight tweaking, but not drastically so...
all spell casters should get Orisons/Cantrips as Spell Like Abilities at will for one thing.
Several Caster like classes (or Rogue like classes) should get a hit die jump.
Then look at the other classes and see how often they get a nifty ability...and match that to the new core classes. if the disparity is greater than 2 levels...add something small.
There are only a few non-core classes I think should stay as is....but the changes should be minor
oh..and in reality, i think most the non-core classes shouldnt even exist (my personal opinion)...as they are flavor type classes and can be done without having a unique class.
Its something Ive been meaning to post about..but Ill start a new thread one of these days regarding it rather than clutter this one up with it.
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Thanks all for your help and advice. once the beta comes out we will probably switch over.
I prefer just the classes from the core rulebook as well but some people just *have* to be different. Weve discussed it and he may when we swap just convert to a fighter/mage or fighter sorcerer.
and yeah after this campaign finishes (or I get bored whichever comes first) I dont think ill be running the realms anymore which is a shame after about 15 years but I wont be touching that 4th edition campaign setting. If I do run anything else in the Realms it will be my version of the realms set around 2e/3e timeline.
guys you have all been a great help many thanks
Rich
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Honestly I would not change non-core PCs at all. Through the years power creep has increased the power of non-core classes a lot, which is one reason Pathfinder PCs are more powerful. If it is an older class I might add some extra abilities to increase their power.
I wouldn't say this really applies. For classes such as the *shudders* Duskblade, or classes from TOB. But I've found most non-core classes to actually be weaker than core ones.
Hexblade for instance, the writer has actually fully admitted that if he foresaw books like PHBII being relesesed, he would have made far more powerful.
I'm hearing no end to the arguments of how weak the CW samurai is.
What about Marshal? A paladin under Paizo can do what he does...with -other- classe features on top.And one last point...go to any gamming forum (this forum is probably included) and ask, in terms of power, the most powerful classes, and I promise, the top 3 will be core.
Just using what I have heard so much about on here. I never used the extra splat classes. Yet the consensus on the forums for Alpha Playtesting is that the extra splat classes were subject to power creep and the last ones especially were more powerful. I know the Knight is a powerful class, as I tried to get to play it several times but no one will allow it in. Those examples you have are probably examples of the few weaker classes. But take it up with the people in the Alpha playtesting threads.
We converted over in stages, by "chapter". Started with Races, then Combat, then Feats, then Skills, and finally Classes. Seemed to work :)
I'm a very simple DM. I wouldn't change anything except adopt the new mechanics and spell descriptions. When a PC cops it then they can choose the revamped versions.
OK, there's the changed skills but 'legacy' classes can use the old skills and PF classes can use the new ones.
As for monsters and/or NPCs, if they're getting whacked too quickly just add some hit points as you go, if they're too tough knock some off.
Cheers
Mark