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Female Gamer Needing Her Voice Heard!


Gamer Talk

101 to 150 of 172 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>

I just want it to be practical. If it's a picture of a Paladin, let's see her in plate mail. Frankly, I think Seoni's clothes make sense for a sorceror...no sleeves or bulky clothes to get in the way of those complicated motions. But if it's freezing outside, she better have the magic to back up it up. I don't mind cheescake...all I ask is that a little common sense be applied.

Andoran

Yasha0006 wrote:

Now to distract everyone with a peaceful picture of my Rhacodactylus Leachianus,

Dante

awesome! i have a bearded dragon, lizards are awesome pets :)

as to the topic, cheesecake and beefcake are fine, in context. if its just gratuitous, im not so impressed. but, fantasy worlds aren't populated with neuters and eunichs, and im sure someone is being naughty on occasion (where else would those hoards of kobolds come from?), so references to sexuality and sensuality aren't out of line.

and add my girlfriend to the list of women gamers who dont mind some skin showing on occasion in a fantasy illustration. she just wishes they all looked like angelina jolie...


Mikaze wrote:
LazarX wrote:

The Warcraft examples however are symbolic and symptomatic on how women charcters have been treated in gaming and fantasy literature. I chose the Warcraft examples mainly for parody and humor value and because they tell that universal story which is NOT confined to MMORGS.

On a related note: the evolution of armor in Soul Calibur. As you can see she's clearly applying her years worth of experience in battle to her choices in attire!

Especially puzzling when you consider the latest female character in the series.

Don't trust the images too much. My son was playing SC IV last night and armor can be destoyed. His character ended up reducing the female opponent to a thong. A bit over the top.


As a male gamer I would also like to state how liberating scantily-clad female fantasy personas are for me.

Sure, my wife gets a bit pissed when I stretch out her clothes, but still...

Qadira

"Screw that! I'm Gonna live!"

Going Red Sonja with the Bare Midrift and chain shirt may be a little too popular to be healthy. Armour is good. More armour is better.

Inra struggled under the formless weight of a Heavy chainshirt, Hauberk, and annoying itch of a padded wool undershirt that gave her the outward appearence of a boy playing at being a man.
None the less she held her polearm with the air of experience as the overly large demonhounds bounded toward her with terrible intent.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hooray!

There are female gamers! ;-)


Oh no! Mothman found out! Abort abort abort!

Nonetheless, I am still glad to see this thread still going strong. While I don't condone the sort of objectification done with things like porn, even that is something that women do willingly. I know at least as a man, I have absolutely no right to judge.

Women are supposed to have their own views and hopefully have a healthy attitude about their sexuality. Its not as though being a sexual person is something to be ashamed of.

Keep it up everyone!

Taldor

I am a firm believer in balance. I like a little cliche in my game, and the chainmail bikini is one of the classics. At the same time, it is not always appropriate. The fighter in a suit of plate is not going to have a bare middriff. That, I think, is dumb. But a nimble girl with a sword and buckler could get away with it. I don't think there is anything wrong with sexy characters, I just think people running into battle in their underwear is kind of stupid. Unless they're barbarians. Then it's ok.


You know if you give your bikini-clad babe a level of battle dancer she can get a higher armor class just from looking hot.

Just saying...


Amber Scott wrote:

I am also a Female Gamer (though I didn't know until now that I qualified for capital letters -- yippee!) and a Female Game Designer and I like the occasional scantily clad woman as well. What I don't like is a pervasive, unchanging image of the scantily clad fantasy-woman as the only available model in RPGs. Variety, after all, is the spice of life.

-Amber S., who likes sexy medusas

I'm a male (gamer) that considers himself a feminist as well, and I agree with this 100%.

C'mon publishers, mix it up a little!


Gurubabaramalamaswami wrote:

You know if you give your bikini-clad babe a level of battle dancer she can get a higher armor class just from looking hot.

Just saying...

Isn't that the class where you can distract your enemies, going so far as to give them AC penalties... just by twirling your dress/cloak at them?

(If not, there is a class out there that does it ... awesome class for a female character.)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Inara Red Cloak wrote:
Gurubabaramalamaswami wrote:

You know if you give your bikini-clad babe a level of battle dancer she can get a higher armor class just from looking hot.

Just saying...

Isn't that the class where you can distract your enemies, going so far as to give them AC penalties... just by twirling your dress/cloak at them?

(If not, there is a class out there that does it ... awesome class for a female character.)

Gah, I KNOW this is in one of the WotC 3.x books somewhere but for the life of me I can't remember the name. It's not the battledancer(those are more like chaotic monks, bringing to mind more freestyle forms of fighting), but I can't remember the name. It was a prestige class IIRC. Blade dancer, veiled blade, it was named something like that.

edit-On second thought, the battle dancer might have that as an ability. I really need to recheck that book when I get it back.


Cloaked Dancer PrC out of the Complete Scoundrel!

Battle Dancers get cool abilities too...sadly a male Battle Dancer is...less than inspiring of an idea, isn't it? Who can really picture a male Battle Dancer...or Cloaked Dancer for that matter?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Yasha0006 wrote:

Cloaked Dancer PrC out of the Complete Scoundrel!

Battle Dancers get cool abilities too...sadly a male Battle Dancer is...less than inspiring of an idea, isn't it? Who can really picture a male Battle Dancer...or Cloaked Dancer for that matter?

Well for male Battle Dancers, consider some examples of Jackie Chan's work or Eddie Gordo. Possibly with knives or katars. And speaking of katars, for an extreme CN variant, VOLDO.(sorry for the inherent wrongness of this example)


Yasha0006 wrote:

Cloaked Dancer PrC out of the Complete Scoundrel!

Battle Dancers get cool abilities too...sadly a male Battle Dancer is...less than inspiring of an idea, isn't it? Who can really picture a male Battle Dancer...or Cloaked Dancer for that matter?

Awesome! Thanks!

and speaking of male cloaked dancers... Kung Fu movies have been doing it for decades.

Andoran

good choise of words Inara, as other have mentioned i am happy enough seeing more women play :)

i remmber a gem that used that ability in women to distract and get less damage "power of scatly clothes" just similar to the Conan's Theorem... but more to our liking :P


In the real world, a lot of women wear miniskirts and thongs, but female soldiers wear bdu and body armor.

But if a female soldier discovered she had access to weightless, encumbrance-free magic spell armor, and any other kind made her weapon (spells) jam (ASF), I suspect a lot of them would end up in thongs and miniskirts.

And of course, just exactly what you cover can have a lot to do with technology and culture. Look at what a lot of Greek warriors and gladiators wore. If you've been trained for years to fight with just one arm in plate mail, a trident and net, and a helmet with a cage on it, you may be better off in that than full plate.

And of course, magic armor may well be designed for maximum aesthetic. In the real world, there were suits of ceremonial armor no one expected to fight in. In D&D, there is glamored armor. If I am a female warrior, and I have glamored armor, and it does *really* cover my cleavage and midriff, I *might* leave those areas apparently bare just to draw attacks to a thick metal plate no one can see, instead of having them go for my eyes, joints or ankles.

It is very, very important to me that any fantasy rpg that wants to be taken seriously have at least a few women in thick, practical, heavy armor just like the guys. But once you *have* those examples, go nuts with style. Of *course* some high-Charisma sorceresses are going to be wearing glamor shots evening wear. Because, well, they CAN. And once you slap glamored armor an a female warrior, feel free to make it skimpier, as long as that's not true of EVERY female warrior.

Otherwise, yeah, let some skin sh0ow. It's a fantasy. Conan lets more hang out than Red Sonja anyway (in the movies -- books are very different and dont have Sonja).

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber
Dungeon Grrrl wrote:

In the real world, a lot of women wear miniskirts and thongs, but female soldiers wear bdu and body armor.

But if a female soldier discovered she had access to weightless, encumbrance-free magic spell armor, and any other kind made her weapon (spells) jam (ASF), I suspect a lot of them would end up in thongs and miniskirts.

How many women wear mini-skirts to go for a four-day trek into the forest, followed by a few days spelunking, and then a four-day trek home?

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
And of course, just exactly what you cover can have a lot to do with technology and culture. Look at what a lot of Greek warriors and gladiators wore. If you've been trained for years to fight with just one arm in plate mail, a trident and net, and a helmet with a cage on it, you may be better off in that than full plate.

Greek warriors wore cuirass, greaves, arm-guards, helmets and studded leather skirts.

Gladiators fought with the weapons they were told to use - given the choice I'm sure many of them might have chosen more practical gear, but that would have reduced the blood-splatters to impress the crowd.

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
And of course, magic armor may well be designed for maximum aesthetic. In the real world, there were suits of ceremonial armor no one expected to fight in. In D&D, there is glamored armor. If I am a female warrior, and I have glamored armor, and it does *really* cover my cleavage and midriff, I *might* leave those areas apparently bare just to draw attacks to a thick metal plate no one can see, instead of having them go for my eyes, joints or ankles.

And that's dandy for the handful of characters wealthy enough to chuck 2,700gp around.

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:

It is very, very important to me that any fantasy rpg that wants to be taken seriously have at least a few women in thick, practical, heavy armor just like the guys. But once you *have* those examples, go nuts with style. Of *course* some high-Charisma sorceresses are going to be wearing glamor shots evening wear. Because, well, they CAN. And once you slap glamered armor on a female warrior, feel free to make it skimpier, as long as that's not true of EVERY female warrior.

Otherwise, yeah, let some skin show. It's a fantasy. Conan lets more hang out than Red Sonja anyway (in the movies -- books are very different and dont have Sonja).

I just want the overwhelming consideration to be character. I want to be able to form a judgement from a character portrait and right now I can't always do that - too much meta-game thinking is needed to deal with chainmail bikinis and whatnot.


GeraintElberion wrote:


Greek warriors wore cuirass, greaves, arm-guards, helmets and studded leather skirts.

Gladiators fought with the weapons they were told to use - given the choice I'm sure many of them might have chosen more practical gear, but that would have reduced the blood-splatters to impress the crowd.

*ahem*

Don't forget the Greek Amazons...daughters of Artemis and Hera.
They didn't wear alot of armor because it hampered their mobility.
And they did wear miniskirts...to exploit a man's weakness to the female behind.

... and don't get me started on what they wore on their chests.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Inara Red Cloak wrote:

And they did wear miniskirts...to exploit a man's weakness to the female behind.

... and don't get me started on what they wore on their chests.

More of a leg man myself ... ;-)

Osirion

Yasha0006 wrote:
Who can really picture a male Battle Dancer...or Cloaked Dancer for that matter?

Any practitioner (or fan) of Capoeira, a fairly popular Brazilian martial art that involves a lot of jumping around and can appear as dance. Zorro is another fine example of a male fighter who does a bunch of swirly cloak-fu during his fighting.


That is true Set. I hadn't thought about Capoeira. Good point Set!

As for Cloaked Dancer....I don't think Zorro using his cloak for fencing counts as Beguiling Dance which is kinda that PrC's signature abilities (that and the other derived dances).


Inara Red Cloak wrote:


Don't forget the Greek Amazons...daughters of Artemis and Hera.

Maybe spiritual daughters, as the cult of Artemis was strictly chaste. ;)


GeraintElberion wrote:

How many women wear mini-skirts to go for a four-day trek into the forest, followed by a few days spelunking, and then a four-day trek home?

First, clearly mroe than you think. I certainly know girls who go camping, and yes for multi-day hikes, in miniskirts, They (usually) wear much more sensible BOOTS, but the miniskirt really isn't an issue.

And if they had access to spells for armor, flight and healing? I suspect some of them wouldnt wear anything at all.

GeraintElberion wrote:


Gladiators fought with the weapons they were told to use - given the choice I'm sure many of them might have chosen more practical gear, but that would have reduced the blood-splatters to impress the crowd.

And I suspect a lot of gladiators who had fought in the arena for a decade would stick with what they know if they went minotaur-hunting. Background can explain a lot of weird behavior.

None of which even touches on spellcasters and ASF.

Andoran

GeraintElberion wrote:
How many women wear mini-skirts to go for a four-day trek into the forest, followed by a few days spelunking, and then a four-day trek home?

Mini-skirts? Very few. Halter-tops and short-shorts? Many. Very, very many.

Seriously, my sister spent her twenties as professional outdoors guide in Southern California. She and her friends were all very outdoorsy granola crunching treehuggers (hell, my whole family is like that), and they all wore the same uniform: sturdy boots, thick socks, really short shorts, halter tops (sometimes just sports bras with no shirt) and bandanas.

It's why I never found Lara Croft's outfit odd. That is pretty much exactly how my sister dresses when she's out hiking, climbing, spelunking, etc. I always assumed croft's outfit (and whole look) was based on women like my sister and her friends.

Andoran

Neithan wrote:
Inara Red Cloak wrote:


Don't forget the Greek Amazons...daughters of Artemis and Hera.
Maybe spiritual daughters, as the cult of Artemis was strictly chaste. ;)

Not exactly chaste... she just hated men... the literature and myths show her persuing women in earnest


Neithan wrote:
Inara Red Cloak wrote:


Don't forget the Greek Amazons...daughters of Artemis and Hera.
Maybe spiritual daughters, as the cult of Artemis was strictly chaste. ;)

Very true... I was just using the term daughters as in the spiritual conotation.

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber
Inara Red Cloak wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:


Greek warriors wore cuirass, greaves, arm-guards, helmets and studded leather skirts.

Gladiators fought with the weapons they were told to use - given the choice I'm sure many of them might have chosen more practical gear, but that would have reduced the blood-splatters to impress the crowd.

*ahem*

Don't forget the Greek Amazons...daughters of Artemis and Hera.
They didn't wear alot of armor because it hampered their mobility.
And they did wear miniskirts...to exploit a man's weakness to the female behind.

... and don't get me started on what they wore on their chests.

Amazons are a myth. There were no Amazons. They're shown in art from the period in all kinds of dress, nude and fully-armoured, just as the mythic greek heroes can be seen nude and fully-armoured.

And in some versions of the mythology they cauterised one of their breasts at an early age to prevent it from developing so that (depending who you read) either there sword arm and shoulder muscles would develop better, or so that it didn't get in the way of their archery.

I'm looking forward to WAR giving us a revealing shot of that!

Once again, I'm not arguing against the idea that some men and women in Galorian might choose to dress skimpily. I just want the art to be representative of the character. I have no problem with a picture of a drow bondage mistress (although it wouldn't be very novel) if that character actually is a bondage mistress. But if every female drow priestess' ceremonial robes are just a few leather thongs, whilst every male drow is covered up then I get a sense that we're going for prurience over character (I use this example because of the cover images of drow we currently have available, it's not bad art, but when you get it together and compare and contrast...).

Qadira

Inara Red Cloak wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:


Greek warriors wore cuirass, greaves, arm-guards, helmets and studded leather skirts.

Gladiators fought with the weapons they were told to use - given the choice I'm sure many of them might have chosen more practical gear, but that would have reduced the blood-splatters to impress the crowd.

*ahem*

Don't forget the Greek Amazons...daughters of Artemis and Hera.
They didn't wear alot of armor because it hampered their mobility.
And they did wear miniskirts...to exploit a man's weakness to the female behind.

... and don't get me started on what they wore on their chests.

Actually they went Spartan Naked...clothing was added later for the convenience of future prophaganda needs. Naked women liked to carry small stone fletchets to inflict pain when attacked by men who thought their nakedness was a sign that read: "Throw me over a rock and rape me from behind!"


yellowdingo wrote:
Inara Red Cloak wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:


Greek warriors wore cuirass, greaves, arm-guards, helmets and studded leather skirts.

Gladiators fought with the weapons they were told to use - given the choice I'm sure many of them might have chosen more practical gear, but that would have reduced the blood-splatters to impress the crowd.

*ahem*

Don't forget the Greek Amazons...daughters of Artemis and Hera.
They didn't wear alot of armor because it hampered their mobility.
And they did wear miniskirts...to exploit a man's weakness to the female behind.

... and don't get me started on what they wore on their chests.

Actually they went Spartan Naked...clothing was added later for the convenience of future prophaganda needs. Naked women liked to carry small stone fletchets to inflict pain when attacked by men who thought their nakedness was a sign that read: "Throw me over a rock and rape me from behind!"

First let me say...you must be a rarity. I've seen few women in Roleplaying and even less that actually admit to it. As for the whole scantily clad style of fantasy imagery, to be honest it generally speaks for itself. Men are easy to manipulate and control, even the semi-clad unarmed females in fantasy are very strong characters and with only a few words could work men like puppets.

Warrior women are a terrifying sight. I've done martial arts for 20 years and I'd rather fight men. Men are simple, some have focus, some are just arrogant, some are aggressive....easy to work out and deal with. WOMEN ARE VISCIOUS....they fight like something from the pits of hell with more fury than any man I've seen. In the old days of the Celts it was supposedly the women who taught martial arts( sword, spear etc) and I can see why.

Good on you, stand tall, be strong.

Qadira

ProsSteve wrote:

First let me say...you must be a rarity. I've seen few women in Roleplaying and even less that actually admit to it. As for the whole scantily clad style of fantasy imagery, to be honest it generally speaks for itself. Men are easy to manipulate and control, even the semi-clad unarmed females in fantasy are very strong characters and with only a few words could work men like puppets.

Warrior women are a terrifying sight. I've done martial arts for 20 years and I'd rather fight men. Men are simple, some have focus, some are just arrogant, some are aggressive....easy to work out and deal with. WOMEN ARE VISCIOUS....they fight like something from the pits of hell with more fury than any man I've seen. In the old days of the Celts it was supposedly the women who taught martial arts( sword, spear etc) and I can see why.

Good on you, stand tall, be strong.

Me not woman - me just one of those rare types who likes women who can hold their own (which is why I advise 'punching bags' who wish to no longer be so to wait until he is passed out drunk on the Doona on the Bed and sew him up in it using heavy twine and a leather sewing needle while he sleeps and work him with a baseball bat until he never feels safe again). Its a Commonwealth thing...

Osirion

ProsSteve wrote:
In the old days of the Celts it was supposedly the women who taught martial arts( sword, spear etc) and I can see why.

I've read stuff (scholarly research even and not just romanticize-the-past rosy-goggles twaddle!) that suggests that 'King Arthur' / Riothames was a Romanized Briton who might have been moderately competent with a sword, but wasn't a professional soldier by any means. 'Guinevere,' on the other hand, for whom there is no direct historical correlation, was purported to be Celtic royalty (daughter of Vortigern), and, as with all of that caste (regardless of gender) would have been trained from childhood in the spear. If she hadn't been a fierce fighter, she wouldn't have survived to adulthood. They took their training pretty seriously...

The image of a 'King Arthur' story where 'Guinevere' is the fighter and he's more of a politician always amuses me, as most interpretations have it the other way around.


Yasha0006 wrote:

My wife, who Lilith and the rest of the chatgoers know, is a gamer.

She and I also raise and breed a type of gecko called Rhacodactylus Ciliatus, called Crested Geckos for short. When referring to the genus group as a whole they are usually just called 'Rhacs."

My wife has recently stated to me that she wants a T-shirt that says

"Hey! Nice Rhac!" Across the chest.

Now to distract everyone with a peaceful picture of my Rhacodactylus Leachianus,

Dante

Whoa - he's gotten big since I last saw his pic!

Double Entendres - for when you do not yet have to break out the Clue Hammer.


Mikaze wrote:
Yasha0006 wrote:

Cloaked Dancer PrC out of the Complete Scoundrel!

Battle Dancers get cool abilities too...sadly a male Battle Dancer is...less than inspiring of an idea, isn't it? Who can really picture a male Battle Dancer...or Cloaked Dancer for that matter?

Well for male Battle Dancers, consider some examples of Jackie Chan's work or Eddie Gordo. Possibly with knives or katars. And speaking of katars, for an extreme CN variant, VOLDO.(sorry for the inherent wrongness of this example)

Or how about the all time greatest male dancer?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This discussion amuses me again. I live in Germany and tried once to bring this kind of question to the female gamers around me. 'What do you think, is cheesecake in RPG a problem for the female gamer?' They laughed long and heartily. So I went to a convention and asked there a few female gamers/authors/producers and they looked at me like I came from another planet. Like they say, the problem is just in your head.

To be true I have much more problems if the female gamer wear clothing that her character could wear, but she cannot. A lot are heavily overweighted and not all large breasts are beautiful.


I really can not see the connection between scantly clad women and strength, confidence, beauty and everything else.

Oh, yes, I almost forgot that in this world women can easily enslave men by showing skin. My mistake. :D


pres man wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Yasha0006 wrote:

Cloaked Dancer PrC out of the Complete Scoundrel!

Battle Dancers get cool abilities too...sadly a male Battle Dancer is...less than inspiring of an idea, isn't it? Who can really picture a male Battle Dancer...or Cloaked Dancer for that matter?

Well for male Battle Dancers, consider some examples of Jackie Chan's work or Eddie Gordo. Possibly with knives or katars. And speaking of katars, for an extreme CN variant, VOLDO.(sorry for the inherent wrongness of this example)
Or how about the all time greatest male dancer?

And of course there is always THIS


We may need to rewrite a variant of the Cloaked Dancer PrC that uses fear effects.


Verminlord wrote:

This discussion amuses me again. I live in Germany and tried once to bring this kind of question to the female gamers around me. 'What do you think, is cheesecake in RPG a problem for the female gamer?' They laughed long and heartily. So I went to a convention and asked there a few female gamers/authors/producers and they looked at me like I came from another planet. Like they say, the problem is just in your head.

Because, of course, the issue of influencing hearts and minds is utterly irrelevant and without power. Ask anyone in Iraq. Or Hollywood.


I was flipping the channels and stopped on the women's volleyball game for the olympics. Seeing them jump around in their little [but functional] outfits, reminded me of this thread and I asked my wife what she thought about the typical fantasy artwork of women. She said that she didn't think most women were too worried about what the women wore but instead of how unrealistic their body shape was drawn.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
pres man wrote:
I was flipping the channels and stopped on the women's volleyball game for the olympics. Seeing them jump around in their little [but functional] outfits, reminded me of this thread and I asked my wife what she thought about the typical fantasy artwork of women. She said that she didn't think most women were too worried about what the women wore but instead of how unrealistic their body shape was drawn.

Most fantasy artwork characters are drawn with "unrealistic" body shapes. How many RL guys are built like Conan, after all? The skew toward "supermodels with implants" isn't a whole lot worse than the skew toward "steroid abuser," IMO. Even the 8 Str wizards with gray hair look like they work out 4-5 times a week instead of studying scrolls and tomes.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
roguerouge wrote:


Because, of course, the issue of influencing hearts and minds is utterly irrelevant and without power. Ask anyone in Iraq. Or Hollywood.

If I come around, sure.


Verminlord wrote:
roguerouge wrote:


Because, of course, the issue of influencing hearts and minds is utterly irrelevant and without power. Ask anyone in Iraq. Or Hollywood.
If I come around, sure.

Copyright is our number one industry in terms of gross domestic product. Since the Cold War, if not since the 1920s, media has been a part of our State department's global strategies. According to TV Dimensions, the average American watches 28.8 hour of television a week and has watched at least 20+ hours/week since 1960. Add in the time spent listening to the radio and being on the net, and we spend more time consuming media than we do any other thing except work and sleep. According to Adcult, we spend 3 years of our lives doing nothing but decoding commercial messages and brand trademarks. We see 5000 or so ads each day.

It's central to our economy, our foreign policy and our daily lives.

Saying "it's just in your head" is equivalent to a PC saying, "Thank goodness it's not a evoker; it's just an enchanter. What's the worst that could happen?" It's silly and kind of charmingly innocent.


houstonderek wrote:


and add my girlfriend to the list of women gamers who dont mind some skin showing on occasion in a fantasy illustration. she just wishes they all looked like angelina jolie...

Have you seen Skeletor's new film, incidentally?

Andoran

roguerouge wrote:
houstonderek wrote:


and add my girlfriend to the list of women gamers who dont mind some skin showing on occasion in a fantasy illustration. she just wishes they all looked like angelina jolie...

Have you seen Skeletor's new film, incidentally?

i'm not much of a fan, personally...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
roguerouge wrote:
Saying "it's just in your head" is equivalent to a PC saying, "Thank goodness it's not a evoker; it's just an enchanter. What's the worst that could happen?" It's silly and kind of charmingly innocent.

Personally, I don't have a TV. I don't need one. But I agree with you that the media has a lot of influence in our lives. But that is not the point I tried to make. If a movie get censored in the USA, you find that they don't censor the violence, but every sexscene. In Germany they censor every violencescene and not the sexscene. If you like to look a movie less censored, then you watch the netherland or the japanese version. The country with the largest porn production of the world falls unconscious if they see a nipple on TV. If it is not a problem in the head of the people, what it is then?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Verminlord wrote:
roguerouge wrote:
Saying "it's just in your head" is equivalent to a PC saying, "Thank goodness it's not a evoker; it's just an enchanter. What's the worst that could happen?" It's silly and kind of charmingly innocent.
Personally, I don't have a TV. I don't need one. But I agree with you that the media has a lot of influence in our lives. But that is not the point I tried to make. If a movie get censored in the USA, you find that they don't censor the violence, but every sexscene. In Germany they censor every violencescene and not the sexscene. If you like to look a movie less censored, then you watch the netherland or the japanese version. The country with the largest porn production of the world falls unconscious if they see a nipple on TV. If it is not a problem in the head of the people, what it is then?

The Legal systems of those countries?


Verminlord wrote:
The country with the largest porn production of the world falls unconscious if they see a nipple on TV.

Ya think there's a connection? :)

Sex. Everybody wants it. Nobody wants to *admit* they want it.

Our most breathtaking talent is our endless capacity for self-deception.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Lord Fyre wrote:
The Legal systems of those countries?

Most of the censorship is self censoring, not any laws. Publisher fear that some groups will be offended or 'the kids must be protected' and they press their artists to censor their work. Frank Miller's Sin City comes to my mind immediatley. You will find enough of this 'free' censorship everywhere. So basically a few people decide what is good for you and your children. Again I say, if we realize this artificial reasoning and give a voice that everyone has the right to decide what is good for him-or herself (I'm talking about cheese/beefcake pictures) then the problem will be just a matter of taste.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
kickedoffagain wrote:


Ya think there's a connection? :)

Sex. Everybody wants it. Nobody wants to *admit* they want it.

Our most breathtaking talent is our endless capacity for self-deception.

I agree with you that self deception is one of the biggest force in humankind. But why shouldn't one not admit the need for sex? It is as natural as craving for food. My wife, my friends and me have no problem of admitting that we need sex and adore beautiful naked men or women. And if we play a game of fantasy then this is a part of it.

Just take a look at human history and you will find that the earliest found scriptures are contracts and pornographic stories. Everywhere you find stories, pictures, statues that tell us that sex is a wonderful (even spiritual) thing. Only the modern judeo-christian-moslemic religons have a problem with that.

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