PFRPG with Book of Experimental Might


Alpha Playtest Feedback General Discussion

Shadow Lodge

Does anyone use both of these systems together? What has been your experience in incorporating the BoXM with PFRPG? How much conversion is required (or better yet, how hard are they to convert, since I am familiar with the broad changes proposed in BoXM relative to magic)?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lich-Loved wrote:
Does anyone use both of these systems together? What has been your experience in incorporating the BoXM with PFRPG? How much conversion is required (or better yet, how hard are they to convert, since I am familiar with the broad changes proposed in BoXM relative to magic)?

Haven't tried it yet, but I doubt BoXM is any harder to convert to 3P than it was to 3E. From what I've seen the changes are already incorporated (increased feats), or are exactly the same as 3E was (9 spell levels vs 20 for BoXM). Of course, as I haven't tried it out, take what I say with a few grains of sodium chloride.

Grand Lodge

so what is the Book of Experimental Might you speak of????

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Krome wrote:
so what is the Book of Experimental Might you speak of????

This and also the sequel

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Krome wrote:
so what is the Book of Experimental Might you speak of????

They are pretty amazing! Even though the books suggest you need to use all the tweaks I've managed to pull out a few pieces I'm incorporating in my PRPG playtest.

Grand Lodge

mmm very very very interesting. ANd Monte is a consultant for PfRPG... I will have to pick these up now. I loved his work on Iron Heroes, which is a fantastic reinventing of nonmagical combat in fantasy rpgs.

Scarab Sages

I have both books of experimental might and they are indeed great, although I prefer the 10 level spell system (you have to count 0th level spells).

I specially like the domain and disciplines.

Shadow Lodge

I was off and on about the BoXM but then I read this campaign log (campaign journal of a guy playing in a Monte-DM'd game using BoXM) and the characters sounded very cool. I just don't want to add anything that will disrupt my move to PFRPG too much.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Krome wrote:
mmm very very very interesting. ANd Monte is a consultant for PfRPG... I will have to pick these up now. I loved his work on Iron Heroes, which is a fantastic reinventing of nonmagical combat in fantasy rpgs.

Actually Monte's involvement with Iron Heroes is just that it was published by his company Malhavoc Press. It was written by Mike Mearls, though, who now went on to work on D&D Fourth Edition.

Grand Lodge

Zaister wrote:
Krome wrote:
mmm very very very interesting. ANd Monte is a consultant for PfRPG... I will have to pick these up now. I loved his work on Iron Heroes, which is a fantastic reinventing of nonmagical combat in fantasy rpgs.
Actually Monte's involvement with Iron Heroes is just that it was published by his company Malhavoc Press. It was written by Mike Mearls, though, who now went on to work on D&D Fourth Edition.

I thought it was written under Monte's guidance... oh well still a great book

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

[moved to Pathfinder RPG forum]

Krome wrote:
mmm very very very interesting. ANd Monte is a consultant for PfRPG...

"Mmm," indeed. I wonder if you might just find a little bit from the Book of Experimental Might work its way into the Pathfinder RPG beta...?

Shadow Lodge

Vic Wertz wrote:

[moved to Pathfinder RPG forum]

Krome wrote:
mmm very very very interesting. ANd Monte is a consultant for PfRPG...

"Mmm," indeed. I wonder if you might just find a little bit from the Book of Experimental Might work its way into the Pathfinder RPG beta...?

I hoped that would be the case! *rubs hands with glee*


Vic Wertz wrote:

[moved to Pathfinder RPG forum]

Krome wrote:
mmm very very very interesting. ANd Monte is a consultant for PfRPG...

"Mmm," indeed. I wonder if you might just find a little bit from the Book of Experimental Might work its way into the Pathfinder RPG beta...?

Certainly cannot hurt.

Paul Watson wrote:
Krome wrote:
so what is the Book of Experimental Might you speak of????
This and also the sequel

Sequel? Why wasn't I informed of this? Well, I need something to properly test my new printer, anyway.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
"Mmm," indeed. I wonder if you might just find a little bit from the Book of Experimental Might work its way into the Pathfinder RPG beta...?

Ooooh, teasing! Evil Vic... Sounds good!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The problem with this is that the beta doesn't come out until Summer 2009, so now I'll have to order the 2 books of Experimental Might along with the Pathfinder RPG softcover. Darn it! How do I hide those purchases from my significant other?

Vic and Monte, do you have any suggestions?

And to get back to the original poster's question, has anyone figured out how well--or not so well--the Books of Experimental Might fit with the PF RPG alpha?

Hurm.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Hurmferd wrote:

The problem with this is that the beta doesn't come out until Summer 2009, so now I'll have to order the 2 books of Experimental Might along with the Pathfinder RPG softcover. Darn it! How do I hide those purchases from my significant other?

Vic and Monte, do you have any suggestions?

And to get back to the original poster's question, has anyone figured out how well--or not so well--the Books of Experimental Might fit with the PF RPG alpha?

Hurm.

The Beta is the softcover. It's out in August, and, according to Vic just above might have some things from BoXM incorporated (so no need to buy another book). The FINAL version is out in 2009.

Hey, Paizo people. This releasing things at GenCon strategy you've got sure seems to be confusing to a lot of people. ;-)


We already use BOXM in ou game, although we don't give away disciplines for free. You have to spend a feat to have access to the discipline benefits. But since we also use the feat per level rule it doesn't hurt to much.
What we don't use ist 20 level spell system. Not because we think it's bad. But then you really have too much trouble if you wish to use older spells.

Dark Archive

Vic Wertz wrote:
"Mmm," indeed. I wonder if you might just find a little bit from the Book of Experimental Might work its way into the Pathfinder RPG beta...?

Given how much I *love* the BoXM's list of customizable powers for wizards, clerics, druids, etc. teases like this might constitute cruel and unusual punishment, Vic...


We're using the Grace, Health and Breather rules from BoXM in my Pathfinder game at the moment. Works well and keeps the game flowing nicely, especially as there is no cleric in the party.

Shadow Lodge

Well I would hate sales of BoXM and BoXM 2 to falter (side project or not from Monte's standpoint) just because PFRPG might tap a few of the ideas, so I think I will by them both anyway.

No such thing as too much goodness!

Grand Lodge

Kamelion wrote:
We're using the Grace, Health and Breather rules from BoXM in my Pathfinder game at the moment. Works well and keeps the game flowing nicely, especially as there is no cleric in the party.

NO CLERIC!! Are you guys mad??

I think I will have to download them this weekend. You guys make it sound way too good.


I have read a bit into BOXM II (which, by the way, is mostly for fighters), and it seems that it has its share of high-level feats especially for martial characters. Unlike the PHB2 ones, which are off limits, the BOXM II ones (or some a lot like those) could be included in Pathfinder. I'd very much welcome that. Spellcasters get high-level spells, other classes get high-level abilities. Give fighters something to do with his high-level bonus feats.

Again, while I won't introduce the whole book into my game, I'm sure that some of this will find its way into my game. Most likely the "Fighter Domains" - though I'll have to do something about doublefeats, since I don't use the one feat per level rule, and überfeats, again because of the one feat per level rule. I think with 10 feats less, the "retirement" requirement (which requires you to stop benefitting from a number of feats) should be halved or something.

Liberty's Edge

Vic Wertz wrote:

[moved to Pathfinder RPG forum]

Krome wrote:
mmm very very very interesting. ANd Monte is a consultant for PfRPG...

"Mmm," indeed. I wonder if you might just find a little bit from the Book of Experimental Might work its way into the Pathfinder RPG beta...?

You are a TEASE.


Saurstalk wrote:

You are a TEASE.

They all are. I think they've taken courses for it or something.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

KaeYoss wrote:
Saurstalk wrote:

You are a TEASE.

They all are. I think they've taken courses for it or something.

It turns out it's easy to be a tease when you only have general knowledge. As in this case—I honestly have no idea what parts of the Book of Experimental Might have been added to the PFRPG beta, but I know at least *something* has been.

So, to sum up, my "tease" lesson is this: "Know more than the person you're talking to knows, but not as much as the person you're talking to *wants* to know."


Vic Wertz wrote:


It turns out it's easy to be a tease when you only have general knowledge. As in this case—I honestly have no idea what parts of the Book of Experimental Might have been added to the PFRPG beta, but I know at least *something* has been.

I don't believe you. Tell me everything. Now! ;-P

Liberty's Edge

Lich-Loved wrote:
Does anyone use both of these systems together? What has been your experience in incorporating the BoXM with PFRPG? How much conversion is required (or better yet, how hard are they to convert, since I am familiar with the broad changes proposed in BoXM relative to magic)?

I'm using the feats and fighting domains from BoXM II with the PRPG rules. I houseruled double feats into something that can only be taken by fighters and allow them to be spread out over 2 levels (for instance, at the odd level you take a "placeholder" that gives you no benefit. At the (next) even level, you spend another slot and get the benefits of the feat.)

I really like fighting domains, oblation feats, etc. They're in my game and will be staying there. As a side note, I can make my exceedingly grim and dangerous paladin from my buddy's Ravenloft campaign more how I envisioned him by taking a mix of fighter and paladin levels and focusing on the fury combat style, which will be great if I ever get a chance to play him again.

If Monte's willing, Paizo would almost be mad NOT to include the feats from BoXM II in the final version of the PRPG. If he's not willing, see this. Fighting domains are to fighters what bloodlines are to sorcerers; a MUCH-needed shot in the arm of both power and flavor.

If you want even more for your fighters, Blackdirge publishing's Master of Arms series is good, solid stuff. The combination of the beefed up PRPG fighter class & feat progression, better and more varied feats, and focused, weapon-specific prestige classes makes for some awesome warrior-types.


Out of curiousity, what have you done with überfeats? The retirement requirements assume that you have 10 more feats than PF (and 13 more than 3.5), so it's not such a big deal to retire 5 of your feats, but without those feats, it's a harder hit. Did you keep the numbers?

I considered turning doublefeats into normal feats with appropriate prerequisite feats that aren't that great by themselves. That stuff you wouldn't choose unless you did get a feat every level.

Timespike wrote:


If Monte's willing, Paizo would almost be mad NOT to include the feats from BoXM II in the final version of the PRPG. If he's not willing

... then they could, basically still do it, since the stuff is open content as far as I know. Of course, they probably wouldn't take them if he didn't like it, but I just can't see him refusing. It's not as if that would bankrupt him or anything (I'd say that he has already made most of the sales from that book. At least the first book was the absolute champion in selling many pdfs in a short amount of time)

Dark Archive

Vic Wertz wrote:

[moved to Pathfinder RPG forum]

Krome wrote:
mmm very very very interesting. ANd Monte is a consultant for PfRPG...

"Mmm," indeed. I wonder if you might just find a little bit from the Book of Experimental Might work its way into the Pathfinder RPG beta...?

A shameless teaser, Vic! ;) But I suspect that many people will be happy if this is indeed the case...


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
KaeYoss wrote:
... then they could, basically still do it, since the stuff is open content as far as I know. Of course, they probably wouldn't take them if he didn't like it, but I just can't see him refusing. It's not as if that would bankrupt him or anything (I'd say that he has already made most of the sales from that book. At least the first book was the absolute champion in selling many pdfs in a short amount of time)

You always have to check the OGC declaration in Monte's stuff, as most of the time it's not just simply "all open content". In the case of BoXM II, the feats (and only the feats) are explicitly declared as such, meaning, for example, that the fighter domains ar not.

Liberty's Edge

KaeYoss wrote:
Out of curiousity, what have you done with überfeats? The retirement requirements assume that you have 10 more feats than PF (and 13 more than 3.5), so it's not such a big deal to retire 5 of your feats, but without those feats, it's a harder hit. Did you keep the numbers?

I left them as-is. If you read through the überfeats, they all incorporate the benefits of several "lesser" feats. You can retire feats that are redundant and be pretty much fine.

KaeYoss wrote:
I considered turning doublefeats into normal feats with appropriate prerequisite feats that aren't that great by themselves. That stuff you wouldn't choose unless you did get a feat every level.

This was the thing I was least satisfied with. Fighters in Pathfinder only get 2 feats per level if they lead off with something else or at level 1. Less than ideal. I'm beginning to think the one level-one feat paradigm wouldn't be so bad after all, though, especially if I used it for the bad guys.

KaeYoss wrote:
Timespike wrote:


If Monte's willing, Paizo would almost be mad NOT to include the feats from BoXM II in the final version of the PRPG. If he's not willing
... then they could, basically still do it, since the stuff is open content as far as I know. Of course, they probably wouldn't take them if he didn't like it, but I just can't see him refusing. It's not as if that would bankrupt him or anything (I'd say that he has already made most of the sales from that book. At least the first book was the absolute champion in selling many pdfs in a short amount of time)

In any case, BoXM II (and the book of Iron Might, for that matter) make great companion volumes to the PRPG. If you can't make a fighter you think is cool using THOSE two volumes, you just don't like playing a sword-swinger.


Vic Wertz wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:
Saurstalk wrote:

You are a TEASE.

They all are. I think they've taken courses for it or something.

It turns out it's easy to be a tease when you only have general knowledge. As in this case—I honestly have no idea what parts of the Book of Experimental Might have been added to the PFRPG beta, but I know at least *something* has been.

So, to sum up, my "tease" lesson is this: "Know more than the person you're talking to knows, but not as much as the person you're talking to *wants* to know."

You've made my day friend :) I'm hoping/assuming that it is most likely the Breather/Grace system that may be included, it would fit in like a Lego block just nicely....

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Roleplaying Game / Alpha Playtest Feedback / General Discussion / PFRPG with Book of Experimental Might All Messageboards
Recent threads in General Discussion