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To be honest vance, I've only seen that complaint given by those who already dislike 4E. Have you actually seen anyone who has played a good deal of 4E with this complaint?Several, yes. A couple at the WotC chat room, and a few in person. They still LOVE it, but they did comment that their encounters were all playing out exactly the same, every time.
I have run test scenarios at 15, 25, and 30 just to see how things played out. All of the classes still played in their roles - defender, controller, striker, leader. I simply do not se any increase in homogeneity at higher levels.
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While trying to minimize the snark as much as possible, I don't think you would ever find any fault with anything about 4E, no matter how blatant, how severe, or how damaging that it may be.
Well, then apparently you have not been paying attention. I see some big faults with 4e. Class similarity is not one of them - I see the classes as very very distinct.
Personally, I played and run a few 1st to 3rd mini sessions to get a feel for how the game played, and those games VERY QUICKLY went into a 'SOP' for each encounter. It occured to me, very early, why this was. The game REWARDS only one style of play, and did a wonderful job of culling just about everything else out. But, having said that, that was MY experience, and purely anecdotal.
Why is a standard operating procedure a bad thing? The PCs have lots of options for different situations. There will be a set of powers that do get used in a fairly repetitious manner but I saw that in 3e as well. So I guess I am not sure what "bad thing" is happening in 4e that is any different than 3e.
Now, on the one hand, I'm actually very glad that you like the game. On the other, I really can't take your comments on it all that seriously anymore. This isn't due to you being a fan, but the sheer amount of intellectual dishonest you've thrown around about it.
Thanks for the attack. I appreciate the insult. How about next time trying to actually explain what "intellectual dishonesty" I have perpetrated and perhaps I may be able to respond in a more meaningful manner.
First, I see intellectual dishonest as point of view.
Second, the classes are different by the power sources that fuel the powers.
A necromancer should be powerful in a graveyard even if somone throws antimagic at them.
A Monk uses hands and feet rather than 2 weapons.
Certain weapons capitalize on their fighting style.
The Monk should also be able to knock out opponents rather than kill them, if desired.
Staying true to their pattern, they may call the class Martial Artist.
A Noob(no offense meant) might be aware of Bullet Proof Monk or The Forbidden Kingdom.
Similarly, some new gamers might come to the table wanting to play a Ninja like Naruto.
Similarly, some new gamers might come to the table wanting to play a Ninja like Naruto.
I, an old gamer, would love to play a ninja from the Naruto world of things. Or Ed or Al from Full Metal Alchemist. I think 4th would allow such things easier than other editions.
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Thanks for the attack. I appreciate the insult. How about next time trying to actually explain what "intellectual dishonesty" I have perpetrated and perhaps I may be able to respond in a more meaningful manner.And you just did it again. I said 'games get very same, encounters tend to be repetitive'.. to which you said 'no'. And NOW you've changed your answer to 'Yeah, but SO?!' and still want to debate the point.
"Intellectual dishonesty" is not a 'valid point of view', it's nothing but a politician's way of lying in order to make it APPEAR like he's won an argument he's lost.
Vance,
Do you even know what points I was responding to?
It was this:
Actuall, I think that the higher level you go, the more you play, the MORE alike that the classes seem to be.
I agree that patterns of play do form, but I do not agree that the classes are similar at higher levels.
And seriously, you need to chill. Don't get all pissy because you can't keep track of the actual point I am making.
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Yeah, I think we need to chill out on the personal attacks. It seems that how customizable and homogenous the classes appear to be seems largely dependent on your point of view. I personaly think that the classes are reasonably different but less so than in other editions. To go back to the original point of the thread, it's good that they have conversion notes, but they are very hit or miss. The ninja, hexblade, and swasbuckler were pretty good, while the others leave much to be desired. The druid was especially bad. You just can't pull off a druid with the official rules and have it really feel like a druid.