Aroden -- foreshadowing?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

In the Gazetteer, the writeup on Aroden ends with "the true repercussions of the death of the Last Azlanti have yet to be felt." Do I since a likely future AP?


One can hope...

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

[Insert Neat Username Here] wrote:
In the Gazetteer, the writeup on Aroden ends with "the true repercussions of the death of the Last Azlanti have yet to be felt." Do I since a likely future AP?

I think that's less a teaser at an AP than it is defining a "reason" for a lot of the weird stuff going on throughout the world. Such a cataclysmic event has thrown everything out of wack, from prophesy to the Worldwound.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

[Insert Neat Username Here] wrote:
In the Gazetteer, the writeup on Aroden ends with "the true repercussions of the death of the Last Azlanti have yet to be felt." Do I since a likely future AP?

Perhaps...

But more to the point... that's kinda foreshadowing EVERYTHING we're doing with Pathfinder products. The death of Aroden is one of the greatest and most important events in the world, and various things it's setting into motion are only now, a 100 years later, starting to manifest.

Silver Crusade

James Jacobs wrote:
[Insert Neat Username Here] wrote:
In the Gazetteer, the writeup on Aroden ends with "the true repercussions of the death of the Last Azlanti have yet to be felt." Do I since a likely future AP?

Perhaps...

Divine murder mystery?

Spoiler:
Shelyn with the Whisperer of Souls glaive in Bytopia.[/clue]

Dark Archive Contributor

Mikaze wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
[Insert Neat Username Here] wrote:
In the Gazetteer, the writeup on Aroden ends with "the true repercussions of the death of the Last Azlanti have yet to be felt." Do I since a likely future AP?

Perhaps...

Divine murder mystery?

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Why? Why oh why would she commit such a crime?!?!

*cries*


More importantly...can you tell us without giving away any major plotlines if we can expect the rise of a new deity to fill the vacuum?

Dark Archive Contributor

Gurubabaramalamaswami wrote:
More importantly...can you tell us without giving away any major plotlines if we can expect the rise of a new deity to fill the vacuum?

*shrug*

We honestly haven't given that much thought.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

No.

There will be no replacement deity for Aroden.

In a way, Aroden is a metaphor for the rise of humanity, and you could thus interpret him as a sort of god of humanity.

And now he's dead, and humans must chart their own destiny. Even the old prophecies no longer work*, so the future is more uncertain than ever.

Iomedae has inherited most of his church (which is why she is called "The Inheritor," but she will never take his symbolic place as the last pureblooded scion of the most advanced race humanity has ever known.

--Erik

* Aroden's death messing up prophecies was in part to make the future more interesting, but I also did it to rob authors from falling back on the lazy premise of prophecy, which has been done umpteen zillion times in RPGs. Better to close that door than leave it wide open, I think.


I agree in enjoying the finality of Aroden's demise. With so many anguished to keep save-or-die crunch to the rules, it's refreshing to me to see such lethality encroach upon the gods as well.

I'd think any Spock-type resurfacing would be a bit cheesy IMO.

(Although if it involved any kind of deific/immortal sex-prison, I'm all for it. . . Woo-HOO!!! Especially if said module was crafted by Mr. Logue.)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

I for some reason imagine someone appearing and claiming they are Aroden returned in mortal form. And I see it ending badly for that someone.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
The death of Aroden is one of the greatest and most important events in the world, and various things it's setting into motion are only now, a 100 years later, starting to manifest.

Much as the Last War defines Eberron, Aroden's death defines Pathfinder. It one of the questions you have to ask in character generation 'How did/does this affect my character?'. The mystery of his death should be left alone, just as the cause of the Mournland has not been revealed.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Much as the Last War defines Eberron, Aroden's death defines Pathfinder. It one of the questions you have to ask in character generation 'How did/does this affect my character?'. The mystery of his death should be left alone, just as the cause of the Mournland has not been revealed.

Yeah, the Mournland is pretty much the only thing that hasn't been revealed about Eberron. I've lost count of how many books they've published for that setting. It's simply ridiculous!

Are there any suspects in the Death of Aroden? Enquiring minds want to know!

More to the point, you would think the responsible party would step forward and brag a bit. Aren't there any priests or cultists or evil outsiders talkin smack?


Michael F wrote:
More to the point, you would think the responsible party would step forward and brag a bit. Aren't there any priests or cultists or evil outsiders talkin smack?

Doesn't seem to be that way...from what we've been revealed about the divine order, demigods can be killed by mortals (although, good luck, you'll need it, looking at the Mantis God's statistics), but gods cannot. Something pretty extreme must have happened to Aroden, and I like that it's been left in the dark, so I as the GM can make that choice should it come up in the game.

Sovereign Court

Zynete wrote:
I for some reason imagine someone appearing and claiming they are Aroden returned in mortal form. And I see it ending badly for that someone.

That would be an awesome idea for an adventure path, dealing with some false prophet(a demon lord maybe?) masquerading as the new Aroden, savior of mankind.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lilith wrote:


Doesn't seem to be that way...from what we've been revealed about the divine order, demigods can be killed by mortals (although, good luck, you'll need it, looking at the Mantis God's statistics), but gods cannot. Something pretty extreme must have happened to Aroden, and I like that it's been left in the dark, so I as the GM can make that choice should it come up in the game.

I agree I would rather it never be printed in black and white this is what happened. I would much rather have several versions, speculations and claims about what happened. I think White Wolf did that very well with the World of Darkness for the most part. Which I think was part of why it sold so well. They was a interesting read, lots of big events, lots of information but little of it was just one way. Most of it was told from several points of view with no answer on which was right. Leaving it up to the GM to decided. Plus it was fun to speculate about it on forums of course, among fellow fans.


Erik Mona wrote:
but she will never take his symbolic place as the last pureblooded scion of the most advanced race humanity has ever known.

...I imagine you mean well there, Erik, but the combination of "pure blood is awesome" and "descent from an irrecoverable golden age" makes me quiver with incredible rage... >.<#

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Heh. Well, it all has to do with a person's point of view, of course.

Does it help that the Azlants have lily white skin?

Silver Crusade

Erik Mona wrote:


Does it help that the Azlants have lily white skin?

Going off the Gazetteer portrait, I thought they seemed more like a race of Namor the Submariners.

Which, if it requires they all be roleplayed as imperious and constantly angry and possibly raiding the surface world solely to steal the wives of its greatest wizards and scientists, is actually kind of awesome.


Erik Mona wrote:

Heh. Well, it all has to do with a person's point of view, of course.

Does it help that the Azlants have lily white skin?

Well, sure, for a certain value of 'help.' ;)

Sovereign Court

Erik Mona wrote:


There will be no replacement deity for Aroden.

However, in several years, there will be an entry for a mysterious being called Tenebrous in the back of a Pathfinder Chronicles book. He will hold the power of the Last Word, a mighty True Word that only a god can wield without danger. It will eat at him like a cancer, but eventually he will discover the location of Aroden's lost wand, and attempt to reclaim it for himself; Tenebrous will turn out to be, in an amazing twist, Aroden. It will be up to a band of adventurers to prevent this from happening.

Many people will hail this as a return to the true era of Pathfinder, while others will denounce it as the D&D equivalent of bringing back Hal Jordan as the Green Lantern.


Mike McArtor wrote:
Why? Why oh why would she commit such a crime?!?!

Coz Aroden was hatin'


cappadocius wrote:
Many people will hail this as a return to the true era of Pathfinder, while others will denounce it as the D&D equivalent of bringing back Hal Jordan as the Green Lantern.

[threadjack]John Stewart fans are already on their way![/threadjack]

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

What I like about the death of Aroden is that Dwarf and Elf PCs can easily be old enought to actually remember it happening.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Here is a thought.

Aroden was alive at the same time as the Runelords.
The same cataclism destroyed both civilizations.
Were the two nations at war?
Was the cataclism a result of that war?

Afterwards, Aroden walked the earth while the Runelords slept, and eventually became a god after 2000 years.
Was one of the Runelords, instead of just sleeping, working toward becoming a god?
Was the sleep a part of the godhood process?
If so, was the process delayed somehow and he/she awoke 100 years ago?
Did Aroden sense the taint of an ancient enemy?
Did they battle? (What powers are unleashed when two gods battle?)
Did one kill or imprison the other, and was later too weak to do anything?
Did they destroy each other?

This is just one of many possible scenarios for the disappearance of Aroden.
Anyone else have any ideas?


Charles Scholz wrote:


Anyone else have any ideas?

It's all a ruse to get the insurance money.

Sovereign Court

KaeYoss wrote:
Charles Scholz wrote:


Anyone else have any ideas?
It's all a ruse to get the insurance money.

No, no. He faked his death to get out of paying his back taxes. Aroden is currently disguised as Rory Bellows, a simple salvage operator.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

cappadocius wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:
Charles Scholz wrote:


Anyone else have any ideas?
It's all a ruse to get the insurance money.
No, no. He faked his death to get out of paying his back taxes. Aroden is currently disguised as Rory Bellows, a simple salvage operator.

Well played.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Aroden was supposed to return and usher in a new age in which man could achieve greatness, right?

So he returned man's destiny to man's control. All the evils coming into the world are a necessary prerequisite to heroism, a.k.a. mankind achieving true greatness through overcoming adversity on their own, without the guidance of prophesies (so "no guarantees").


Cintra Bristol wrote:

Aroden was supposed to return and usher in a new age in which man could achieve greatness, right?

So he returned man's destiny to man's control. All the evils coming into the world are a necessary prerequisite to heroism, a.k.a. mankind achieving true greatness through overcoming adversity on their own, without the guidance of prophesies (so "no guarantees").

Very nicely stated. That was more or less my take on him.


I now get it. He was unconfortable in his... whatever passes for a body in a divine entity. So he faked his death and resumed a new name: Iomedae - who conveniently inherited his power and most of his worshippers (minus the homophobes and other extreme conservatives.)

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

KaeYoss wrote:
I now get it. He was unconfortable in his... whatever passes for a body in a divine entity. So he faked his death and resumed a new name: Iomedae - who conveniently inherited his power and most of his worshippers (minus the homophobes and other extreme conservatives.)

I realize this is a joke, but Iomedae was already a goddess when Aroden died.


Ross Byers wrote:
I realize this is a joke, but Iomedae was already a goddess when Aroden died.

Doesn't fool me! He wore a blonde wig and spoke in a high voice. He really thought about this. He's a god (albeit an ascended one), a few millenia are nothing to him.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Mikaze wrote:


Going off the Gazetteer portrait, I thought they seemed more like a race of Namor the Submariners.

Which, if it requires they all be roleplayed as imperious and constantly angry and possibly raiding the surface world solely to steal the wives of its greatest wizards and scientists, is actually kind of awesome.

Yes, well, that's indeed what I was going for.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Cintra Bristol wrote:

Aroden was supposed to return and usher in a new age in which man could achieve greatness, right?

So he returned man's destiny to man's control. All the evils coming into the world are a necessary prerequisite to heroism, a.k.a. mankind achieving true greatness through overcoming adversity on their own, without the guidance of prophesies (so "no guarantees").

That too.


Cintra Bristol wrote:
All the evils coming into the world are a necessary prerequisite to heroism

He went Gabriel on them?

Let's hope it works, or he comes back and pokes the Tarrasque with a stick. ;-)

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
BenS wrote:
Cintra Bristol wrote:

Aroden was supposed to return and usher in a new age in which man could achieve greatness, right?

So he returned man's destiny to man's control. All the evils coming into the world are a necessary prerequisite to heroism, a.k.a. mankind achieving true greatness through overcoming adversity on their own, without the guidance of prophesies (so "no guarantees").

Very nicely stated. That was more or less my take on him.

Well played. No matter what actually happened to Aroden himself (GM discretion), the overall effect is to set the race of humanity on their own path to greatness. The king is dead - long live the king!


Ross Byers wrote:
What I like about the death of Aroden is that Dwarf and Elf PCs can easily be old enought to actually remember it happening.

Wow! I never thought about that, but it's an amazing idea.


I like to think that the power of the Starstone just kinda "ran out" and he was no longer a god. He just went back to being a regular dude, who promptly died because his body is like a million years old. Could this foreshadow the other 4 ascended humans?

Shadow Lodge

Lilith wrote:
Something pretty extreme must have happened to Aroden, and I like that it's been left in the dark, so I as the GM can make that choice should it come up in the game.

There's also the fact that, even with talent as great as Paizo's, almost anything that they did reveal would wind up disappointing most of us.


cappadocius wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:


There will be no replacement deity for Aroden.

However, in several years, there will be an entry for a mysterious being called Tenebrous in the back of a Pathfinder Chronicles book. He will hold the power of the Last Word, a mighty True Word that only a god can wield without danger. It will eat at him like a cancer, but eventually he will discover the location of Aroden's lost wand, and attempt to reclaim it for himself; Tenebrous will turn out to be, in an amazing twist, Aroden. It will be up to a band of adventurers to prevent this from happening.

Many people will hail this as a return to the true era of Pathfinder, while others will denounce it as the D&D equivalent of Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern.

FIFY

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Michael F wrote:
Yeah, the Mournland is pretty much the only thing that hasn't been revealed about Eberron. I've lost count of how many books they've published for that setting. It's simply ridiculous!

No it's not really, a lot of things in any campaign world are left intentionally blank for the GM. That as the devs stated, was one of them.


Mikaze wrote:
Shelyn with the Whisperer of Souls glaive in Bytopia.[/clue]

There is no Bytopia in the Great Beyond. You really have no clue, do you? ;-P


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:


Does it help that the Azlants have lily white skin?

Going off the Gazetteer portrait, I thought they seemed more like a race of Namor the Submariners.

Which, if it requires they all be roleplayed as imperious and constantly angry and possibly raiding the surface world solely to steal the wives of its greatest wizards and scientists, is actually kind of awesome.

And constantly made fun of, because you did all those things, if the last two years of comics are any indication. ^^


DarkArt wrote:

I agree in enjoying the finality of Aroden's demise. With so many anguished to keep save-or-die crunch to the rules, it's refreshing to me to see such lethality encroach upon the gods as well.

I'd think any Spock-type resurfacing would be a bit cheesy IMO.

(Although if it involved any kind of deific/immortal sex-prison, I'm all for it. . . Woo-HOO!!! Especially if said module was crafted by Mr. Logue.)

I find your idea of a sex-prison for that deity-person called Aroden intriguing. We should open a more private channel of communication to further explore the possibilities of this concept.


Draeglos wrote:
I like to think that the power of the Starstone just kinda "ran out" and he was no longer a god. He just went back to being a regular dude, who promptly died because his body is like a million years old. Could this foreshadow the other 4 ascended humans?

He was a few thousand years old before he became a god, so this isn't too likely.

Shadow Lodge

DarkArt wrote:
(Although if it involved any kind of deific/immortal sex-prison, I'm all for it. . . Woo-HOO!!! Especially if said module was crafted by Mr. Logue.)

He was given the job to write this module today. He has promised to have the initial manuscript delivered to Paizo by 2042. Realists expect the manuscript to be delivered to Paizo Technologies Inc. by Nick Logue XIII in 2247.

Contributor

Draeglos wrote:
I like to think that the power of the Starstone just kinda "ran out" and he was no longer a god. He just went back to being a regular dude, who promptly died because his body is like a million years old. Could this foreshadow the other 4 ascended humans?

Huh, that's kinda a cool idea... I could see a GM running a really epic feeling campaign based off of that premise.

Kthulhu wrote:
There's also the fact that, even with talent as great as Paizo's, almost anything that they did reveal would wind up disappointing most of us.

I'd say that literally anything we did would end up disappointing a significant portion of readers. That's why we're just going to leave it alone.

It's our sense that "an idea" is fundamentally less interesting than "any idea." While we obviously don't take this stance with all of our secrets or products (there are nouns in our books after all) in many cases mystery can be far more appealing than certainty.

Anyone remember back in second edition D&D when the Far Realm was that mysterious unrealitly from where all things terrible, Lovecraftian, and gooey leaked into the world? Over the years, though, this place got so detailed in products - heck, we were even responsible for helping with this in Dragon - that it lost most of its mystery and just kind of turned into another humdrum extrapalanar stop. Ravenloft's Dark Powers had the same deal going, but no canon source ever said what they were, retaining their mystery for any story players want to tell.

I know the completist nature of many gamers make them eager to have all the facts or be in-the-know, but as Golarion is a shared world, we like the idea of there being big secrets that GMs can either ponder over or, if they want to answer them themselves, find an answer that's perfect for their stories and that isn't going to be contradicted by an answer they might think is less cool.

Again, we don't do this with everything - not very much at all, in fact - but for the top tier mysteries... go find the answers yourself.


I just want to say that I applaud Paizo's Development team for not specifying the circumstances regarding Aroden's death.

This gives individual game masters, such as myself, the ability to utilize our own ideas on the who, what, how, and why of his death.

I love settings, modules, and game resources that are flexible enough to twist into my own home campaign, yet extremely creative and interesting on their own.

Dark Archive

Dark Sasha wrote:
I just want to say that I applaud Paizo's Development team for not specifying the circumstances regarding Aroden's death.

I agree with you. It expands the creativity of the GM knowing he can make it HIS world and not just another "out of the box" genre. I myself am doing research for just this reason. I'm trying to find the best scenario to place the absence of Aroden in the world. No one really knows HOW he died and no one knows if he is REALLY dead (at least none that I can find). I have found no where that states a body was recovered or found or if he might have just, poof, disappeared. It will make a good adventure and plot lines to find out the who, whys, and wheres on this one.

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