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Intermediate Saving throws, Page 8


New Rules Suggestions


To help game balance a little bit better, why not introduce Intermediate Saving Throw bonuses to classes. This would be the same bonuses as poor, but you would get a +1 increase at level 1, 10, and 19.

This could be implemented to better express the classes differences.Things like this have already been seen in class abilities such as battle fortitude of the scout in the complete adventure.

Suggestions to implementation.

A cleric and druid could have their fort save made intermediate rather than good.

A fighter could get an intermediate reflex save, to show a physical combat oriented character class.

On a side note (literally), you could also give fighters the choice of a good reflex or fortitude to better focus their fighting style. A way to pull this off would be like this.

If a fighter has a higher dex than ether their fortitude or strength they may opt to have their reflex saving throws be their good saving throw rather than their fort save.

Also if you adopt the intermediate saving throws you could give them the side note option, in a similar manor, of getting both fort, reflex, and will as intermediate saving throws rather than one good, one inter., and one poor.


Here's how I'd figure the numbers for intermediate.

If High Save is 2 + 1/2 per level, and Poor Save is 0 + 1/3 per level, then Medium Save would be smack in the middle, 1 + 1/2.5 per level.

In decimal, that's 1 + 0.4 per level.

So your saves would look like this:

Lvl Fraction Bonus
1 .... 1.4 .... +1
2 .... 1.8 .... +1
3 .... 2.2 .... +2
4 .... 2.6 .... +2
5 .... 3.0 .... +3
6 .... 3.4 .... +3
7 .... 3.8 .... +3
8 .... 4.2 .... +4
9 .... 4.6 .... +4
10 ... 5.0 .... +5
11 ... 5.4 .... +5
12 ... 5.8 .... +5
13 ... 6.2 .... +6
14 ... 6.6 .... +6
15 ... 7.0 .... +7
16 ... 7.4 .... +7
17 ... 7.8 .... +7
18 ... 8.2 .... +8
19 ... 8.6 .... +8
20 ... 9.0 .... +9

*Edit* Formatting, there needs to be a "code" tag or something.

And I'm all for adding this. This allows for greater distinction between classes.

Shouldn't the Paladin have a better Will save than a Fighter? But it didn't feel right giving him as good a save as say a Wizard or Cleric. Medium Save!

Druids and Clerics are clearly hardier than their cloistered arcane counterparts, however should they really be able to compete against the Fighter and Barbarian in toughness? Medium Save!

The Fighter needs to be thrown a bone, and combat is his thing, but should he really be dodging fireballs like Spiderman like a Rogue does? Medium Save!

I could see this really fleshing out nicely. The Monk could have Medium Fort and Will saves to show that he is decent at them, but not as good as a Spellcasting class or the Barbarian... but he's centered around speed enough to compete against the Rogue for Reflex.

Tweaking these can open up other balance options. You can give classes that are hurting a bit a boost, and tone down some other classes to give more abilities. Maybe the ranger should only have a Medium Save for Fortitude, further pushing him towards a skirmish fighter. And having taken that little bit away, maybe we can warrant giving him a more appropriate boost someplace else, such as more fully fleshed Favored Enemy ability line (instead of something you see every 5 levels and therefore only once in a blue moon while gaming).


I like what you put together there Kaisoku, well done.

I do agree, it would help in fleshing out classes better. It will be interesting to see where this idea goes.


Kaisoku wrote:

Here's how I'd figure the numbers for intermediate.

If High Save is 2 + 1/2 per level, and Poor Save is 0 + 1/3 per level, then Medium Save would be smack in the middle, 1 + 1/2.5 per level.

In decimal, that's 1 + 0.4 per level.

So your saves would look like this:

Lvl Fraction Bonus
1 .... 1.4 .... +1
2 .... 1.8 .... +1
3 .... 2.2 .... +2
4 .... 2.6 .... +2
5 .... 3.0 .... +3
6 .... 3.4 .... +3
7 .... 3.8 .... +3
8 .... 4.2 .... +4
9 .... 4.6 .... +4
10 ... 5.0 .... +5
11 ... 5.4 .... +5
12 ... 5.8 .... +5
13 ... 6.2 .... +6
14 ... 6.6 .... +6
15 ... 7.0 .... +7
16 ... 7.4 .... +7
17 ... 7.8 .... +7
18 ... 8.2 .... +8
19 ... 8.6 .... +8
20 ... 9.0 .... +9

*Edit* Formatting, there needs to be a "code" tag or something.

And I'm all for adding this. This allows for greater distinction between classes.

Shouldn't the Paladin have a better Will save than a Fighter? But it didn't feel right giving him as good a save as say a Wizard or Cleric. Medium Save!

Druids and Clerics are clearly hardier than their cloistered arcane counterparts, however should they really be able to compete against the Fighter and Barbarian in toughness? Medium Save!

The Fighter needs to be thrown a bone, and combat is his thing, but should he really be dodging fireballs like Spiderman like a Rogue does? Medium Save!

I could see this really fleshing out nicely. The Monk could have Medium Fort and Will saves to show that he is decent at them, but not as good as a Spellcasting class or the Barbarian... but he's centered around speed enough to compete against the Rogue for Reflex.

Tweaking these can open up other balance options. You can give classes that are hurting a bit a boost, and tone down some other classes to give more abilities. Maybe the ranger should only have a Medium Save for Fortitude, further pushing him towards a skirmish fighter. And having taken that little bit away, maybe we can warrant giving him a more appropriate boost someplace else, such as more fully...

Great idea! I've been playing in a game in which the DM changed the saves to reflect an intermediate saving throw progression for most of the classes. I liked it so much, that I plan to use it in my Galorian campaign this Summer. Thanks for the break-down and number crunching.

Taldor

Looks good. I doubt it'll hurt any backwards compatibility... as long as nothing is taken out. Thus, the monk's saves cannot be reduced.

With fractional saves this would be tricky, however. 1/3 + 1/2 = 5/6. If you have 1/3 + 1/2 + 2/5, it becomes 10/30 + 15/30 + 12/30 = 37/30 -> +1.2333... Then again the issue is only with fractional saves. Fractionals are meant for the math heads anyways.


Decimals are easier to add up than Fractions... I think this was proven to an extent in my psych class in university (measuring brain activity, polling, etc).

Just add up all your 0.33s, your 0.4s and your 0.5s together. Add up each section first and then add the three subtotals together, that way you can make the 0.33s into whole numbers at the multiples of 3 before adding them to the others.

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