is there any chance that pathfinder will have a sorce book Like Oriental adventures? I really injoy the idea behind it. maybe more on the real myths and horror
Very possible, as they have already identified the nation of Minkai.
There was also a nation with a very Chinese sounding name and one of the iconics is from a nation that is extremely reminscent of India. Would not be surprised to see ones similar to Japan, Korea and one or more southeast asian nations.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
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Very possible, as they have already identified the nation of Minkai.There was also a nation with a very Chinese sounding name and one of the iconics is from a nation that is extremely reminscent of India. Would not be surprised to see ones similar to Japan, Korea and one or more southeast asian nations.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Tian Xia
I thought Tian Xia was a province/city-state of Minkai. Specifically, IIRC, the Kaijutsu family of Sandpoint came from there. But I'd rather see new character OPTIONS rather than character classes for Minkai. This enables characters to start in one area and learn abilities from the other, a staple of fantasy fiction.
But I'll stop now while quotes from all the way back to 'Big Trouble in Little China' are still in my head, and not in print threatening other people.
Tian Xia=China
Minkai=Japan
Vuldra=India
We don't know what these places look like on a map yet, but we know they're out there. James Jacobs has also mentioned an AP that would go over the north pole to Minkai at the behest of Ameiko Kaijitsu.
I thought Tian Xia was a province/city-state of Minkai. Specifically, IIRC, the Kaijutsu family of Sandpoint came from there. But I'd rather see new character OPTIONS rather than character classes for Minkai. This enables characters to start in one area and learn abilities from the other, a staple of fantasy fiction.
But I'll stop now while quotes from all the way back to 'Big Trouble in Little China' are still in my head, and not in print threatening other people.
Rish, I agree. While i really enjoyed the Samurai, Shugenja and Sohei classes, I would rather see new class options for character backed up with a lot of color text. Something similar to the ancestral daisho class ability of the Samurai being gained in exchange for losing some other fighter class abilities. Shugenja as clerics who instead of choosing deific domains and gaining those powers, instead choose two elements and gain abilities based on that (yes, i know ery L5R, but i enjoyed it). For Sohei, allow the option of trading out some monk abilities for access to the barbarian rage points and powers. Some Ninja specific Rogue Talents...perhaps instead of minor magic and major magic allow minor ki ability and major ki ability.
As far as races....Instead of introducing a new race to Golarion similar to the various Spirit Folk from Oriental Adventures make the elves of Minkai and Tian Xia culturally more like the Spirit Folk. Instead of a new race of bakemono, change the cultur of the goblin races in that area. There are however a few races i would not mind showing up as options: Nagah, Tengu, much more prevalent nature spirits which may be elementals, fae or a new class of being altogether.
I really hope they dont go with the hype regarding some asian weapons though. I dont miss the uber-sword that was the katana in second edition.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
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Yes, I have assurances that this book will eventually happen and that Nick Logue and I will write it. That all might change in the future (I hope not!), but for now that is the plan.
If the book goes down like I have in my mind, there will be both new classes and new thematically appropriate abilities for the existing 11 standard classes. There will also be new races and monsters provided, as well as thematic reworkings of existing ones.
• Tian Xia is the Golarion approximation of Asia.
• Minkai is the Golarion approximation of Japan.
• Vudra is the Golarion approximation of India.
• The Golarion approximation of China fell apart shortly after the death of Aroden, and the empire that it was has turned into numerous warring nations.
Again, this book and my ideas for it are tentative at this point, but the little bit of information I put in the previous paragraph is how it is. The hardcover will provide a few more glimpses into Tian Xia, to sort of tide us over until the time comes for quasi-Asian awesomeness! :D
Yes, I have assurances that this book will eventually happen and that Nick Logue and I will write it. That all might change in the future (I hope not!), but for now that is the plan.
If the book goes down like I have in my mind, there will be both new classes and new thematically appropriate abilities for the existing 11 standard classes. There will also be new races and monsters provided, as well as thematic reworkings of existing ones.
• Tian Xia is the Golarion approximation of Asia.
• Minkai is the Golarion approximation of Japan.
• Vudra is the Golarion approximation of India.
• The Golarion approximation of China fell apart shortly after the death of Aroden, and the empire that it was has turned into numerous warring nations.Again, this book and my ideas for it are tentative at this point, but the little bit of information I put in the previous paragraph is how it is. The hardcover will provide a few more glimpses into Tian Xia, to sort of tide us over until the time comes for quasi-Asian awesomeness! :D
*screams*
I wanna have your babies!!!!
...Sounds bodacious.
Sweet!
The warring states period of China was one of my favorite.
Are you going to have anything like the water margin chronicle?
Are you and Nick Logue going to destroy the known world and remake it in your own image?
Will there be Japanese school girl outfits in the equipment lists?
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Are you going to have anything like the water margin chronicle?
Unknown at this time.
Are you and Nick Logue going to destroy the known world and remake it in your own image?
That sounds like fun. ^_^
Will there be Japanese school girl outfits in the equipment lists?
Ohmygod yes.*
* Well, I'll try anyway. :D
... Oh yeah. I was overwhelmed with joy at that moment. Ahem... *looks around, begins to whistle*
Warring States era china is why i picked up Qin: The Warrinf States rpg.
Fantastic to hear that there will be regional and themed options for the base 11 classes. Mike, any chance of a peak inside your brain for what new classes (and class abilities) and races you are considering?
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Master, can we have Sun Wukong and friends, or some approximation thereof?
*sets out bowl of sake and mochi*
Director of Brand Strategy
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Yes, I have assurances that this book will eventually happen and that Nick Logue and I will write it. That all might change in the future (I hope not!), but for now that is the plan.
If the book goes down like I have in my mind, there will be both new classes and new thematically appropriate abilities for the existing 11 standard classes. There will also be new races and monsters provided, as well as thematic reworkings of existing ones.
• Tian Xia is the Golarion approximation of Asia.
• Minkai is the Golarion approximation of Japan.
• Vudra is the Golarion approximation of India.
• The Golarion approximation of China fell apart shortly after the death of Aroden, and the empire that it was has turned into numerous warring nations.Again, this book and my ideas for it are tentative at this point, but the little bit of information I put in the previous paragraph is how it is. The hardcover will provide a few more glimpses into Tian Xia, to sort of tide us over until the time comes for quasi-Asian awesomeness! :D
I tend to find that books you have in your mind are the exact books I want to see printed. I guess this one would be sort of a gazetteer for t'other side of the world and a splatbook of Asian-influenced crunch all rolled into one nice sushi-like delicacy? I'll order two.
Yes, I have assurances that this book will eventually happen and that Nick Logue and I will write it. That all might change in the future (I hope not!), but for now that is the plan.
If the book goes down like I have in my mind, there will be both new classes and new thematically appropriate abilities for the existing 11 standard classes. There will also be new races and monsters provided, as well as thematic reworkings of existing ones.
• Tian Xia is the Golarion approximation of Asia.
• Minkai is the Golarion approximation of Japan.
• Vudra is the Golarion approximation of India.
• The Golarion approximation of China fell apart shortly after the death of Aroden, and the empire that it was has turned into numerous warring nations.Again, this book and my ideas for it are tentative at this point, but the little bit of information I put in the previous paragraph is how it is. The hardcover will provide a few more glimpses into Tian Xia, to sort of tide us over until the time comes for quasi-Asian awesomeness! :D
Niiiiiifty! Golarion is getting better with every passing day!
And I'll second the call for a Sun Wukong-eqivelant. Am I then only one who suddenly has the theme from the old Monkey show stuck in their heads?
Monkey Magic! Monkey Magic! Monkey Magic! Monkey Magic oOOoooo!
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Didnt China/Asia have their own unique versions of assassins? I believe they were called "Lin Kuei." It would be nice if each nation/area had their own unique brand of "Ninja."
Japanese...Minkai...Ninja
Asia...Tian Xia...Lin Kuei
Korean...???...???
India...Vudra...???
Etc Etc
Sorry, been out of Martial Arts for a while, but 10 years ago i could have given you the names of the different cultures versions of "ninjas."
In short, i think it would really be cool if every culture has their version(noticeably different from each other) of ninjas as a player class. It would bring great flavor to the game.
Thoth-Amons brain is under the weather and is going to get more rest in the elemental plane of air.
Yes, I have assurances that this book will eventually happen and that Nick Logue and I will write it....The hardcover will provide a few more glimpses into Tian Xia, to sort of tide us over until the time comes for quasi-Asian awesomeness! :D
Mike and Nick join forces ... the possibilities, the possibilities.
If I may ... please flesh out India/Vudra as much as the other locales.
Vudra - India - Thugee
I know Korea has Seolpa rings, not sure what their assassins are called.
Okay, what is the difference between a Pao (hitman) and Lin whatever?
Sohei: I like the idea of a raging monk. But why cough up monk abilities for it? IIRC, there were 'advancement paths' for things like monk/rogue, monk/bard, etc. Why not allow a certain ratio of multi-class for monk and paladin as a Feat pick. Something like:
Flexible Oath
Your order follows a philosophy that is outside the norm. Instead of a straight and narrow path, your training encourages a flexibility most other orders find heretical.
Prerequisite: Character Level 3+
Bonus: You may multi-class up to 1/3 of your monk or paladin levels without losing the abilities of your main class.
This allows for warrior-monks, barbarian-monks, and other spiffy character concepts. Although to be honest, I'm not sure this is worth a feat pick. Perhaps a decision that is made at first level whether one belongs to an orthodox or 'heretical' order?
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Mike, any chance of a peak inside your brain for what new classes (and class abilities) and races you are considering?Ninja.
While I most certainly don't want to sound like a nay-sayer, might I make an alternative proposal. Why not build oriental adventure style variants for pre-existing classes instead of coming up with new classes altogether.
I thank Order of the Stick for point this out by using Paladin as the class for Samurai in its comic strip. It would seem that Ninja would simply be specialized rogues.
I really like the notion of variant special abilities as opposed to new classes. In my humble opinion, Paizo creates a much greater ground for expansion within its core system model by building off that model instead of simply adding on.
Note that this isn't to say that I don't have confidence in Paizo's abilities to make awesome additional classes. I'm only questioning whether it's necessary . . . or prudent.
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Mike and Nick join forces ... the possibilities, the possibilities.
They are endless! :D
If I may ... please flesh out India/Vudra as much as the other locales.
If Vudra doesn't get its own sourcebook before the Tian Xia book comes out, it will indeed get its fair share of coverage. :) My disappointment with the Oriental Adventures books is their extensive over-emphasis on Japan and China, to the exclusion of other incredible cultures (India, Thailand, Vietnam, Korea, Mongolia, Afghanistan, Malaysia, and many other Asian cultures past and present have their own brands of awesome to offer). I know that probably sounds weird coming from me, but it's true.
Why not build oriental adventure style variants for pre-existing classes instead of coming up with new classes altogether.
What's the fun in that? ;) Seriously, though, while there will be support for the core 11 (some more than others, I wager), those 11 do not fill all the roles of even pseudo-European fantasy, much less pseudo-Asian fantasy. That said, another of my disappointments of the 3e OA was its lack of options for the core 11. Some of those classes (particularly the Big Four plus monk) deserve at least as much attention as any new classes presented.
I thank Order of the Stick for point this out by using Paladin as the class for Samurai in its comic strip. It would seem that Ninja would simply be specialized rogues.
Well, first of all—and this is not directed at you, Saurstalk, since you are only referencing it—samurai as paladins is stupid. Anyone who has seen even one samurai movie knows they are not LG paragons of virtue. I can only imagine it was done as a joke of some kind (or at least, I hope so).
I really like the notion of variant special abilities as opposed to new classes. In my humble opinion, Paizo creates a much greater ground for expansion within its core system model by building off that model instead of simply adding on.
Why can't there be both expansion of existing systems as well as the creation of new ones? I imagine there will be plenty of options for the standard 11, especially cleric, fighter, monk, rogue, and wizard.
I'm only questioning whether it's necessary . . . or prudent.
Obviously I will argue the answer is "yes" to both questions. :) Ultimately, this is all a matter of opinion, and I don't think we'll find any solution other than to agree to disagree.
If I might put in a request that this verion of the Ninja not have some stupid NINJA *snap* VANISH ability, or if they do it's higher level and possibly requires a feat? I thought it was so stupid that the Ninja would have a *snap* VANISH power at like level 1.
My thinking is that there will be multiple option tracks for ninja. Some of the tracks will allow for the vanish ability, and some will not. I'm with you in that granting that ability at really low levels is less cool. It's something only dedicated ninja should be able to pull off.
My hope is that the Tian Xia book will include options for those who want to play their Asian-inspired characters and games closer to the historical side of things as well as those who, like me, want the crazy fantasy stuff (like wuxia and anime jumps and teleporting ninja). :)
...
PLEASE NOTE: Please remember everyone that a Tian Xia book has not been put on the schedule yet, nor has its authors been selected. I've been given assurances that such a book will exist and that Nick and I will write it, but things change. And that includes my opinion. I reserve the right to change or even completely reverse my position on any topic presented in this thread (including my dislike of OotS) up until the day this hypothetical book goes to print.
My disappointment with the Oriental Adventures books is their extensive over-emphasis on Japan and China, to the exclusion of other incredible cultures (India, Thailand, Vietnam, Korea, Mongolia, Afghanistan, Malaysia, and many other Asian cultures past and present have their own brands of awesome to offer).
I'm very glad they stuck with pleasing the majority with OA (the best WotC book created, AFAIC)... no "over"-emphasis whatsoever given that book's pagecount. Those other cultures sound like they'd be more appropriate for nothing more than a web enhancement. (Though I'm sure making it Golarion-specific will help draw in those fans...)
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My disappointment with the Oriental Adventures books is their extensive over-emphasis on Japan and China, to the exclusion of other incredible cultures (India, Thailand, Vietnam, Korea, Mongolia, Afghanistan, Malaysia, and many other Asian cultures past and present have their own brands of awesome to offer).I'm very glad they stuck with pleasing the majority with OA (the best WotC book created, AFAIC)... no "over"-emphasis whatsoever given that book's pagecount. Those other cultures sound like they'd be more appropriate for nothing more than a web enhancement. (Though I'm sure making it Golarion-specific will help draw in those fans...)
Duly ignored.
Will there be a home for us gninjas in Tian Xia, Master?
*feels homeless*
*puts out offering of incense, sake and mochi*
I thank Order of the Stick for point this out by using Paladin as the class for Samurai in its comic strip. It would seem that Ninja would simply be specialized rogues.Well, first of all—and this is not directed at you, Saurstalk, since you are only referencing it—samurai as paladins is stupid. Anyone who has seen even one samurai movie knows they are not LG paragons of virtue. I can only imagine it was done as a joke of some kind (or at least, I hope so).
The Order of the Stick never jokes.
Also, as someone who both A) prefers alternative classes to the core ones, and B) really enjoys asian themed characters and adventures, I cannot wait for this book(s) to happen! :)
In fact, I am actually more looking forward to this than the Pathfinder RPG. I already have 3.5 OGC to play with as a writer and gamer, but I don't have clear d20 OGC for asian themed RPGs to write with, and for gaming material I only have a Dragon article update to a 3.0 book and a handful of mediocre classes from the Complete X series. And I know Paizo can top the Complete X series easily (even if you did help write some of them).
I would be remiss to leave out the gninjas. :)
Hooray! A new home!
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[shamelessplug]Hey Mike, if you end up needing a sub-author, a minor consultant who writes the little snippets you and Nick don't have time for...
Let's just say writing up new rakshasa was a ton of fun, and years ago I watched while James Wyatt relunctantly cut a lot of other Asian material for space when he wrote OA in the cubical next to mine.
I'd love a crack at more Vudra/Asian flavored material. :D
[/shamelessplug]
Yes, I have assurances that this book will eventually happen and that Nick Logue and I will write it.
May I say WOOOHOOO! ?
Mischievous Fox Spirits. Gnomes with black t-shirts over their head who stealthily deliver burgers (okay, maybe without the Ninja Burger thing). Honourable warriors who can tell where you studied after mere moments of sparring. Duels that are over in seconds once the swords are drawn. Demons who wear your name. Or your skin. Animism and Celestial Bureaucracy. Adventurers with really cool names. Young girls who can beat up a a fully armed detail of city guards without the need of any weapons. Old men who talk in riddles. Snake-like dragons.
And of course something like a billion different martial arts styles, all with their own feats of course ;-)
Will there be Japanese school girl outfits in the equipment lists?
If Nick is on board? I'm sure of it. And be assured that we'll get stats for "hentacle demons". I tip my hat to Logue's perverted genius!
I would be remiss to leave out the gninjas. :)Will there be a home for us gninjas in Tian Xia, Master?
*feels homeless*
*puts out offering of incense, sake and mochi*
What about the Pgninja's? (Psionic Gnome Ninja's)?
If the Pathfinder Ninja does get supernatural abilities like the ability to vanish, I'd like them to get a variety of super natural abilities such as transformation, super leaps, clones, walking on water, ect.
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Well, first of all—and this is not directed at you, Saurstalk, since you are only referencing it—samurai as paladins is stupid. Anyone who has seen even one samurai movie knows they are not LG paragons of virtue. I can only imagine it was done as a joke of some kind (or at least, I hope so).
I really like the Azure Guard as a concept. And it's not a joke, since the Azure Guard pretty explicitly isn't representative of all samurai in the region. They're just a paladin order that's comprised of samurai (as in the social class). In OotS paladin =/= samurai; it's just that the only paladins we've seen so far happen to be samurai. Just had to put that out there.
And the idea of a Pathfinder OA-style supplement makes me do the happy dance. *shuffle*
Jeremy Puckett
Lin Kuie were nasty pieces of work from what i have found. A mix of a cult, bandits and assasins. Kidnapped children to replenish their numbers and were believed to practice cannibalism. Lots of rumors about them including they may have been descended from demons. Their martial style was supposedly focused on grappling and thrown weapons. They would make really good villains with a nasty prestige class.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
What about the Pgninja's?
Too many silent letters. It wastes too much space ;-)
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If the Pathfinder Ninja does get supernatural abilities like the ability to vanish, I'd like them to get a variety of super natural abilities such as transformation, super leaps, clones, walking on water, ect.
That is my intent. :) It will probably be a choice thing. "Do I want to be able to vanish/teleport or walk on water?" That sort of thing. :)
Lin Kuie stuff stuff stuff
I will need to investigate this when the time comes, unless Nick already knows all about it, of course. :)
Cool stuff
Yes, that is my intent as well. :)
Hmmmm, think we could get that Troy Taylor guy to work the "India" sourcebook. I think he's the next breakaway talent in this business.
Really.
As Austin Powers would say:
Oooo, behave.
But thank you all the same.
Oh yes...it's all speculation whether or not we will write this book...just speculation...
I certainly haven't sent Mike a document filled with pages upon pages of delicious ideas and material about Tian Xia, and he certainly did not send me the same.
We also certainly did not look at each other's material and go "F%~& YEAH! SOOOOO AWESOME!"
None of the above happened.
I swear it!
;-)
Edit: AND! Considering my favorite Chinese operas to watch (and perform) are Monkey Plays, I think we can help you out on the Sun Wukong angle....oh yes we can!!!
Yes, I have assurances that this book will eventually happen and that Nick Logue and I will write it. That all might change in the future (I hope not!), but for now that is the plan.
:D
For me, just so that they do not concentrate entirely on a japanese culture (like Lo5R). My favorite culture for oriental adventures is chinese, I love wuxia, dragon-style kung-fu, and all that jazz!
For me, just so that they do not concentrate entirely on a japanese culture (like Lo5R). My favorite culture for oriental adventures is chinese, I love wuxia, dragon-style kung-fu, and all that jazz!Yes, I have assurances that this book will eventually happen and that Nick Logue and I will write it. That all might change in the future (I hope not!), but for now that is the plan.
:D
Never fear Randall. I am all about the Middle Kingdom.
Would like to see a tiered feat system that was similar to the chi abilities in Qin: the Warring States. More than any other set up, chi/wu xia abilities tend to build on each other which makes using a tiered/tree system both logical and add flavor. "You have mastered the knife hand technique, my student. Now you are ready to learn to penetrate the iron skin of demons. Behold! Water Splits Stone!"
-Weylin STormcrowe