So, I just had an inspiration that I might want to run this adventure path in Greyhawk, at some point. (This might seem a bit strange, but I'm still kind of into the oldest campaign setting, thanks to Erik Mona and company).
Any ideas of where to set it?
I was thinking that I might try Ountsy or Dullstrand, with the Order of the Nail translating into some sort of Hextorian order, and the church of Abadar converting to Zilchus, and so forth. The connection in that region with the decadent excesses of the Great Kingdom seems to be an easy adaptation to make to the background material on Cheliax.
Alternatively, I suppose, I could make Korvosa an Aerdy colony on the other side of the Solnor Ocean, which would make it easier to preserve other aspects of the AP, like the Shoanti.
Comments?
Resurrecting this thread, to continue a discussion I'm having with Carl Cramer . . . please feel free to join the melee, anyone else.
I have 0 greyhawk knowledge but I am using the realms to run it myself.
So, working with the basic idea of setting Korvosa somewhere in the wreckage of the old Great Kingdom, what do we need?
1. A city-state with a port, a small hinterland, and a female ruler. Ountsy fits the bill here, with some minor modifications. (Ratik might also work, or one could convert any of the coastal cities of the North Kingdom, such as Winetha or Bellport, into an independent principality.)
2. A barbarian land with connections to our city-state. This is more difficult. My best suggestion is to use the free peoples of the Grandwood, Lone Heath, and/or the Gull Cliffs as stand-ins for the Shoanti. This would require considerable modification of the Shoanti part of the storyline and the adventures that go with it. Alternatively, one could invent a connection between Ountsy and the Stonehold or the Rovers of the Barrens (maybe the Garasteth princes of Ountsy had a long tradition of hiring mercenaries from these lands and allowed them to build some sort of temple there)--these areas would be a better fit for Shoanti of the Cinderlands culturally and environmentally, but are located quite far from Ountsy or any part of the Great Kingdom.
3. A secretive order of assassins. The Scarlet Brotherhood (or some rogue element thereof--perhaps based in Hepmonaland) could easily fit here.
4. Some substitutes for Vudran Rakshasas. Perhaps Ountsy has developed trade connections with one of the Tuov city-states in southern Hepmonaland. If desired, the Rakshasas can be swapped for Yuan-ti, who have a strong presence in certain Tuov lands. Alternatively, Vudra can just be plopped down whole cloth somewhere across the Solnor Ocean.
5. An evil militant order of knighthood. Hextorians substitute pretty readily for Order of the Nail
6. An undead haunted keep with connections to some evil deity. Old Medegia is an excellent place to site this. Rinloru (an undead haunted keep under siege by the North Kingdom) would also work. Bone March would work fine as well. If one is using Rovers/Stonefist as Shoanti, it would be easy to just stick this somewhere in the Barren Wastes or the Bandit Kingdoms.
7. A big swamp for the final dungeon. Vast Swamp works great here, especially since it's infested with Bullywugs. Pelisso Swamp in northern Hepmonaland works fine as well. The Lone Heath could be used as well, if you want to keep it closer in.
8. A substitute for the church of Abadar. Zilchus is a pretty close fit.
Any other ideas? Suggestions? Did I miss anything important?
I have 0 greyhawk knowledge but I am using the realms to run it myself.
Cool. I've only played in the Realms a little, but would be curious as to where you sited it and what deities you used, and such.
Well I am running it on these message boards. I placed it in Chessenta Here is the map you can see where I placed Korvosa.
As for gods here is a list of major gods of that region.
Anhur -CG- Chaos, Good, Strength, Storm, War---(falchion)
Azuth -LN- Illusion, Magic, Knowledge, Law, Spell---(quarterstaff)
Bane -LE- Destruction, Evil, Hatred, Law, Tyranny---[a black gauntlet]
Hoar -LN- Fate, Law, Retribution, Travel --- (javelin)
Lathandar -NG -Good, Nobility, Protection, Renewal, Strength, Sun -( heavy mace)
Red knight-LN -Law, Nobility, Planning, War ---(longsword)
Taimat-LE- Evil, Law, Scalykind, Tyranny---(heavy pick)
Wakeen -N- Knowledge, Protection, Trade, Travel ---(nunchaku)
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Dude I think you have the bases covered pretty well.
I love the idea of a branch of Hextorians called the Order of the Nail. It totally fits and really gives some detail that makes worshipers of Hextor seem cool and not so plain.
I think the Red Mantis could be a heretical splinter group of the SB. This way you could allow players to be SB characters whose mission in addition to regaining SB control of the city is to crush this up start order.
I think in order to keep things as simple as possible I would leave Vudra and the Rakshasa's the way they are. Like you mentioned having Vudra be across the Solnor Ocean and off the map if you will.
The only really tricky situation I see is the Shoanti and the Cinderlands portion of the adventure. I don’t really know enough about this area and in particular the barbarian tribes that call it home. At worst I suggest you just use the Shoanti as is and say they’ve always been there but the rest of the world hasn’t really heard of them before, or something to that effect.
While I really like the idea of setting this in the great kingdom what about this idea.
What if you substituted Hardby for Korvosa. The Bright Desert for the Cinderlands. And either the Mistmarsh or Gnatmarsh for the Mushfens? I’m not super familiar with GH lore so maybe that won’t work.
Another area to consider could be setting it near Keoland, the Principality of Ulek, or an independent city on the Wild Coast. I mention this just because every time I read about the Hold of Belkzen I totally think of the Pomarj.
I guess the question that need to ask your self is how tied to GH do you want this to be? For instance Shackled City was only minimally connected to Greyhawk and was pretty much able to be transplanted in any setting. As opposed to AoW which was much more tied to GH though still adaptable with a little modification on the DMs part.
One of the appealing things about setting this in the great kingdom would be that you have allot of room to do your own thing and not really mess with canon to much. This is also one of the strengths of a GH campaign is that its quite flexible as a whole for coming up with new material and plugging it in.
Another thing you might want to consider is if you later wanted to run Rise of the Runelords or Second Darkness. Both of these APs are also set in Varisia, while they aren’t connected you might want to have the events that occurred in CotCT be felt or talked about later when and if you decided to run those.
That’s all I got right now. If I think of more ill let you know.
Hardby might work for Korvosa as well, although it's been heavily detailed in the pages of Dungeon and Living Greyhawk Journal, so you'd have to do some pretty serious mods to either canon or the adventures as written. Having the Bright Desert and the Pomarj nearby could be handy, though, and it wouldn't be completely out of flavor.
One could even use Greyhawk for Korvosa--setting it in the future (with respect to current living GH campaign date of ca. 599). Advance the calendar a decade or two, say that a monarch has gained control of Greyhawk and made a marriage alliance with Ahlissa. (For Carl Cramer--this queen could be Rowyn Kellani's daughter or something like that.) His decadent, spoiled, magically talented queen poisons him, and voila. Greyhawk has the advantage of having a big castle within city walls, in which a monarch would naturally ensconce himself. It is a river port with lots of trade connections. The Rhennee would probably work as a pretty good substitute for Varisians, at least in the roles in which they are cast in this AP.
As for what to do about the other two APs, I'm not sure.
I had vaguely thought of putting Sandpoint in Ratik or the coast of the North Kingdom, which would work well with the major adversaries of the last part of the AP, which could be set in the Griffs or the Rakers. But that leaves a bit of a problem with what to do about Magnimar. Maybe use Bellport or Winetha, I don't know. One important theme
I've only read through the first adventure of Second Darkness because I had to halt my subscription. Riddleport could be plunked down in a lot of different places--Vernport (on Least Isle, in the territory of the Sea Barons) fits the bill as a chaotic pirate town. Dullstrand would be a reasonable candidate (as a smuggler's haven), as would any of the coastal towns of the Pomarj or the Wild Coast. Once could even go with Scuttlecove. If you're not planning to be a player in SD, further thoughts are in spoilers:
Well, enough rambling for now. Lots of possibilities.
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I guess thats the real catch with trying to fit Pathfinder stuff in the WoG. It can be done, it just depends on how messy you want to get with the conversion work.
I guess if I was going to run CotCT in the WoG I would take the path of least resistance. Thus I would try and set it in an area with the least amount of detail and then just fill in all that white space if you will with the AP.
Inevitably tho you will have to make some changes in order to complete the AP. I find that the Pathfinder APs are more tied to the campaign setting than the previous Dungeon APs were.
As for Rise of the Runelords I totally would set it in Sterich. Magnimar would be Istivin, and I would totally run the Dungeon adventure Istivin trilogy arc as part of it.
For Second Darkness Im not as sure what I would do but I could totally see the Dim Forest in Geoff making a good replacment for Celwynvian and the forest its in. Riddleport could be located near or in the Hold of the Sea Princes.
I think part of me really has a soft spot for the Sheldomar valley area.
I think the Red Mantis could be a heretical splinter group of the SB. This way you could allow players to be SB characters whose mission in addition to regaining SB control of the city is to crush this up start order.
Or it could simply be an alias. One of the most important gods to the Scarlet Brotherhood is Bralm, god(ess?) of insects and industry. The Red mantis could easily be a sub-order revering her.
What about setting it on Hepmonaland completely? IIRC, it is set as a colony of the SB mostly (it was detailed in the late 2e sourcebook about the SB), but there could be a city-state in the northeast, colonized by the GK a few centuries ago and built just upon old ruins. Then you could set the Cinderlands at the southern plain. Or you could just use one of the city of the Lordship of the Isles, of course, and set up the connection to Hepmonaland from there.
This setup would make it very easy to introduce some SB Assassins into the mix - I don´t see them as highly motivated to involve themselves in Ratik or elsewhere in the north.
This would be a similar situation as in the shackled city AP, set just at the fringes of the continent without disturbing much of the setting.
I have some trouble placing something like the cinderlands in the central Flanaess, as the Rovers´ area is too northernly for my tastes.
Of course, using Hardby has its charms as well - perhaps the new Despotrix lives up to her title and is rotten to the core, poisoning/blackmailing/charming all opposition to her rule. But the Bright Desert seems to be a bit small as representation of the Cinderlands IMO - and you would have to disregard the Rary plot more or less completely. This would require a major rework of the setting IMO.
Just my 2c
Stefan
Some good ideas there, Stebehil. As I've been saying for all my proposed Flanaess sitings of the AP, considerable mods have to be made to GH canon or adventure (DM's choice) to accommodate the differences between Golarion and Oerth. Siting the AP outside the core area would reduce those problems.
An Aerdi colony in Hepmonaland is not implausible, and the Scarlet Brotherhood boxed set materials left a lot of open space down there, so that it would not be too hard to shoehorn the Shoanti in somewhere south of the jungle belt that covers the northern part of the continent. The module with the haunted castle in the middle of orc lands would be a bit harder to site in Hepmonaland, though--at least I can't think of any place that is mentioned as having orcs at all. Of course, you can make it an ancient Olman ruin in the jungle, and replace the orc tribes around it with Suel barbarians or yuan-ti.
So, Korvosa is a colony of the Great Kingdom, on the east coast of Hepmonaland. Between Kevot and Byanbo on the map in Scarlet Brotherhood--perhaps the history of Kevot can be altered so that it was taken over by Aerdi colonists at some point. Use Tuov for Shoanti, and say that the Tuov from Kevot took refuge in the wilds of the Kabrevo Plain and the Yano Desert. (Or just drop Shoanti in as the former natives of Kevot, now nomads of the abovementioned wilds). The haunted castle is a former Olman outpost on the central plateau of Hepmonaland, a region later overrun by Yuan-ti.
Interesting. The only weirdness results from it being near the equator.
One other obvious option is to plop Varisia down IN Oerth, either along the western shore of Oerik or as a continent east of the Solnor Ocean. Of course, if you're going to make it that far away, you almost might as well just run it in Golarion.
I'm still liking my idea of setting it in Ountsy. It would take more work, but would allow hardcore GH fans a chance to continue to play in the GH setting, with connections to previous campaigns and events.
So, Korvosa is a colony of the Great Kingdom, on the east coast of Hepmonaland. Between Kevot and Byanbo on the map in Scarlet Brotherhood--perhaps the history of Kevot can be altered so that it was taken over by Aerdi colonists at some point. Use Tuov for Shoanti, and say that the Tuov from Kevot took refuge in the wilds of the Kabrevo Plain and the Yano Desert. (Or just drop Shoanti in as the former natives of Kevot, now nomads of the abovementioned wilds). The haunted castle is a former Olman outpost on the central plateau of Hepmonaland, a region later overrun by Yuan-ti.
That's awesome! Shoanti Maasai...
So, Korvosa is a colony of the Great Kingdom, on the east coast of Hepmonaland. Between Kevot and Byanbo on the map in Scarlet Brotherhood--perhaps the history of Kevot can be altered so that it was taken over by Aerdi colonists at some point. Use Tuov for Shoanti, and say that the Tuov from Kevot took refuge in the wilds of the Kabrevo Plain and the Yano Desert. (Or just drop Shoanti in as the former natives of Kevot, now nomads of the abovementioned wilds). The haunted castle is a former Olman outpost on the central plateau of Hepmonaland, a region later overrun by Yuan-ti.
Interesting. The only weirdness results from it being near the equator.
One other obvious option is to plop Varisia down IN Oerth, either along the western shore of Oerik or as a continent east of the Solnor Ocean. Of course, if you're going to make it that far away, you almost might as well just run it in Golarion.
I'm still liking my idea of setting it in Ountsy. It would take more work, but would allow hardcore GH fans a chance to continue to play in the GH setting, with connections to previous campaigns and events.
Sounds great so far.
I see your dilemma - either have a lot of work to make it fit, or place it somewhere so it does not affect the setting much, but lose the close connection in the process. This is something we called the "Star Wars effect" - if you play the SW RPG, you cannot be too close to the action in the movies if you want to keep the backstory intact, but if you are too far away, you lose the atmosphere you play it for in the first place. Keep us posted.
Placing Golarion on Oerth is easy, actually - just place it far beyond the Hellfurnaces on the other side of the continent. This is no big conflict with any published material, beside the map in the Dragon Annual.
Stefan
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I agree that putting the AP on the Flanaess ties things better to previous GH adventures.
Ountsy works pretty well, though I like your original alternative of Dullstrand better. The Great Kingdom works really well as Cheliax, IMO, and my concern is that it if you set CoCT too close to the heart of the GK (in Ountsy), then there won't be room in later APs/adventures to go to Cheliax. Dullstrand is a little more removed, so could keep the feel of Korvosa as a distant colony.
Along the same lines, I'd go with a ruin in Old Medegia (or ruined Almor) for the undead keep, rather than going into the GK proper with Rinloru. Rinloru also seems too big/inhabited to really fit well.
The Shoanti are the sticking point, as you point out. What about replacing the central plateau on the Tilvanot peninsula with the Storval Plateau/Cinderlands? You'd have to move the SB headquarters somewhere else, but given the mystery and propaganda surrounding the order, that might not be too hard (unless your players have already explored the area). Anyway, that would keep the barbarians on a rarely-visited plateau without the PCs having to travel all the way to the Rovers of the Barrens or Stonefist.
As for SD,
My 2c.
As for Rise of the Runelords I totally would set it in Sterich. Magnimar would be Istivin, and I would totally run the Dungeon adventure Istivin trilogy arc as part of it.
And "Headless" as well!
Another not too unreasonable place to drop the Shoanti is into the northwestern part of the Bone March. The Bone March is pretty undeveloped in published work except for Knurl and Spinecastle. You could have the Shoanti being a Flan tribe that was subjugated by the old Great Kingdom and placed under the watch of the Bone March--but they never really settled down and all. It's a fairly small territory, but big enough to set the fixed-site adventures from CotC part 4 in.
As a further follow-up to SSM's idea of setting RotRL in Sterich, it would be easy to set the Runelords up as a cabal of Suel mages, perhaps closely involved in the Twin Cataclysms. That would work out quite nicely, with the Sea of Dust (former Suel Empire) right on the other side of the Crystalmists. Oooh. Starting to warm up to these Pathfinder APs again.
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Thers a new thread discussing RotRL set in Greyhawk here.
I actually think I came up with a cool idea for really grounding the campaign in Greyhawk! So check it out if your interested.
Im glad to hear your excited PoB. In many ways tweaking the APs can be almost as much fun as world building, or even running them.
Im running coct in a greyhawk setting i use the city of Atirr on the
east coast of the former Great kingdom ith the North kingdom in the role of Cheliax.
Bellport to the north is riddle port and the shonti are a tribe of flannae barbarians stuck in an area between the bone march and the Northern Kingdom. So far its fit in there well with only minor tweaks and fixes
Atirr became a free city when the Great kingdom fell appart and the North kingdom was to buzy staying alive to pick a fight with them.
Today Atirr remains free from the great kingdom by a mix of bribery and
hot foot diplomacy. if anyone wants the basic conversion notes i can send them in here.
i'm also planning to adapt cotct ap to greyhawk. lots of great ideas here. i'm thinking about putting korvosa in great kingdom so far.
did you guys manage to play the ap in greyhawk? how did it go and where?
ramid, do you still have your conversion notes and are you still willing to share them?
A bit late in finding this thread but wanted to chime in. Can anyone see anything wrong in making Lopolla in Ket into Korvosa?
As far as I can see you have ready-made barbarian tribes on the doorstep (the Paynims) and are right on the frontier for the other adventures. I haven't found a fit so far that requires less modification to Greyhawk itself.