(Muchos Spoileres) Conversion of Burnt Offerings to PFRPG


Rise of the Runelords


So, I haven't started running my RotRL campaign yet and have quite some time to prepare. I've been liking what I see in the PFRPG alpha release, and I think I'm going to use this campaign to give it a test-drive.

I'm using the level advancement, races, skills, feats, and combat system of PFRPG. I am NOT using the classes; for one thing, my players have expressed a desire to play characters not covered in alpha, and I don't think it is advisable to meld the alpha classes as is into the 3.5 system. The wizard is now clearly a much better choice than a sorcerer, for example. The same holds true with clerics vs. druids. Secondly, it would be a big hassle to convert classed NPCs wholesale into Alpha classes. Finally, I am personally dissatisfied with some of them; particularly the fighter and, to a lesser extent, the wizard.

That said, it would make little sense to have the PCs play by alpha rules while the campaign's still written in 3.5. So I have gone through the first module of RotRL and taken all the relevant monsters and NPCs that are likely or possible to be encountered in combat and:

1. Calculated their CMB
2. Re-calculated their skills according to the PFRPG advancement system
3. Where necessary, added feats arising out of said advancement system.

The first is a simple exercise, and I invite you to please double-check my math.

The second required some familiarization with the back chapters of the Monster Manual and the skills chapter in the alpha release. I have, where necessary, added new skills as they are acquired through the PFRPG HD/level advancement, and, where apparent, converted racial bonuses to defunct skills into their equivalents in the PF skill system.

In hindsight, I regret that I did not keep notes while I was converting the skills of these monsters and NPCs. I have tried, when memory serves, to note some of the factors behind the skills; namely racial bonuses. Again, I invite you to double check my math on these points, and if you deem necessary, to dispute my choices of new skills.

The third point was a rare occurrence in my conversion process; only Nualia and Malfeshnekor (and I suspect due to a misprint, Bruthazmus) qualified for additional feats under the conversion system. Some other monsters also found themselves in possession of the now defunct Track feat; I have tried in all cases to only recommend feats that do not tamper with the printed stats of the NPCs or monsters.

Finally, I provide my own thoughts and suggestions for PF alpha from the problems and questions that arose in this conversion process. While I know these are not the PF Aplha forums, this thread is first and foremost about the RotRL campaign.

PART 1

Goblins +0 CMB
Stealth +7, Perception +1
*As small creatures, Goblins have +4 racial bonus on stealth.

Goblin Warchanter -2 CMB
Perception +5, Acrobatics +6, Stealth +6, Spellcraft +3, Perform+5,

Goblin Commando +2 CMB
Handle Animal +5, Perception +5, Stealth +7, Ride +11, Survival +5
*Goblins also have a +4 racial bonus to ride.

Goblin Dog +2 CMB
Stealth +6, Acrobatics +10 (+4 while Jumping)
*While not stated in the entry, I assume Goblin Dogs to have a +8 racial bonus on jump. They have +14 as printed; quite a large bonus for CR 1.

PART 2

Boar +4 CMB
Perception + 7, Swim + 8
*I am planning to use an actual boar in the hunt. I added swim.

PART 3

Tsuto +2 CMB
Acrobatics +8, Deception +6, Diplomacy +6, Theft +8, Disguise +6, Intimidate +6, Perform (wind instruments) +6, Knowledge (local) +7, Stealth +8
*Tsuto picked up a few skills in the conversion, and his multiclassing presented no problem to calculating converted bonuses.

Sinspawn +2 CMB
Stealth +11, Perception +7, Climb +7
*I added perception and climb, due to stealth collapsing into one skill and the skill gained by having >2 HD.

Vargouille +0 CMB
Stealth +5, Perception +6, Intimidate +3, Fly +9, Knowledge (the Planes) +1, Escape Artist +5
*This is the first of the conversions that possessed flight. As per PFRPG alpha, all monsters with a flight speed get Fly for free as a class skill (see pg. 25-26). I also calculated bonuses for maneuverability: +4 for "Good" in the Vargouille's case.

Koruvus +5 CMB
Intimidate +5, Perception +2
*I added perception for being 2nd level.

Erylium +1 CMB
Deception +9, Stealth +11, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (arcane) +7, Knowledge (the planes) +7, Knowledge (history) +7, Perception +6, Spellcraft +7, Fly +19, Appraise +4, Escape Artist +11
*Several of Erylium's skills collapsed into one. I thus added a couple more knowledge skills. I don't have access to the Book of Fiends at this time (though I do own it), so I assumed Appraise was a cross-crass skill. I also calculated her fly bonus, adding the +8 for "Perfect" maneuverability.

PART 4

Tangletooth (Leopard) +5 CMB
Acrobatics* +12, Stealth* +8, Perception +7, Climb* +11
FEAT: Loses Track; I suggest combat reflexes.
*The skills I have asterisked are not trained skills; they are only "collapsed" skills with racial modifiers.

Gogmurt +1 CMB
Handle Animal +8, Knowledge (Nature) +8, Survival +11, Perception +7, Stealth +11
*Gogmurt gained a couple of skills. I trust none of my choices will be controversial.

Shadowmist +8 CMB
Perception +8, Acrobatics +8, Swim +11
*Again, gained a couple of skills.

Ripnugget +4 CMB
Handle Animal +8, Intimidate +8, Stealth +7, Ride +13

Stickfoot +2
Acrobatics +15, Climb +22
*Giant Geckos have a net bonus of +16 to climb and +8 to balance. I converted the balance to acrobatics as per the PFRPG; some astute readers may notice that Stikfoot is now an able tumbler and jumper, as well. As per 3.5 rules, Stickfoot can now *automatically* move through threated spaces without provoking attacks of opportunity. I intend to address this problem by tweaking tumbling DCs to be CMB-opposed checks in my game.

Bunyip +6 CMB
Perception +8, Swim +8, Survival +8
*I added survival, which I find to be a conventional secondary choice for most animals. However, in the reprint of the stat block there are no inclusion of racial modifiers; I have not included any in my calculations.

Bruthazmus +6 CMB
Perception +5, Stealth +6, Climb +6, Survival +5, Deception +1
FEAT: Bruthazmus did not exactly gain a feat from the conversion; he was printed with one missing. Bruthazmus should have two feats from racial hit die and one from a 1st level class. I suspect this has been addressed in the Burnt Offerings Clarifications thread; I recommend adding power attack. Also note that he loses Track.

Orik +5 CMB
Climb +5, Intimidate +5, Swim -1, Perception +4
FEAT: Orik is printed as is with the Athletic feat. This is now quite a poor choice for most characters as it gives +2 to swim and FLY. Like most humans, Orik cannot fly. Therefore, I'd recommend changing Athletic to be +2 to swim and CLIMB.
*I suspect, however, that my calculations for Orik's climb and swim is off—the latter especially, as I did not calculate how much weight Orik is carrying.

Tentamort +5(+9) CMB
Climb +10, Stealth +8, Survival +8
*Our first encounter with a grappler. The +9 in the CMB represents the bonus provided by improved grapple. Like the Bunyip above, no racial bonuses were provided in the reprint. As such, some skill calculations may be off.

Yeth Hounds +6 CMB
Perception +8, Survival +8, Stealth +8, Intimidate +6, Fly + 12, Swim +9, Escape Artist +8, Knowledge (the planes)
FEAT: The Yeth Hounds lose Track. I recommend replacing this with combat reflexes.
*I ran a little thin on skills to add here. According to the Monster Manual, outsiders get 8+INT skills. That's 6 for a Yeth Hound (INT 6). Add to this the 1 gained for attaining 2 HD. This gives us 7, plus Fly for free. This seems excessive; I think this may need to be lowered to 6+INT for outsiders. See Malfeshnekor below for a further demonstration of this problem.

Lyrie +0 CMB
Spellcraft +8, Knowledge (Arcana) +8, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +8, Knowledge (local) +8, Stealth +5
*Added a couple skills.

Nualia +7 CMB
Intimidate +10, Ride +7, Spellcraft +8, Knowledge (Religion) +8
FEAT: As a level (>/=)5 character, Nualia receives a new feat under the PFRPG advancement system. I recommend Improved Sunder as it takes advantage of her high CMB. Dazzling Display [Combat] is also a good choice, as it fits with her fiendish claw.
*I have a suspicion said claw also provides a bonus to intimidate; however, none was mentioned in the printing. As with Tsuto, Nualia's multiclassing was not a problem for conversion; if anything it made it easier.

Shadows +1 CMB
Perception +9, Stealth +8, Fly +12, Knowledge (Arcana) +4
*I had to add a couple skills here; I feel that Undead could reasonably be reduced from 4+INT skill points to 2+INT with PFRPG rules, though this is debatable.

Giant Hermit Crab +12 CMB
NO SKILLS/FEATS
*As a vermin, the Giant Hermit Crab gets no skills or feats.

Malfeshnekor +19 CMB
Deception +18, Climb +21, Diplomacy +18, Stealth +17, Intimidate +18, Acrobatics +17, Knowledge (History) +18, Knowledge (The Planes) +18, Knowledge (Religion) +18, Perception +16, Spellcraft +17, Appraise +17, Escape Artist +17, Swim +21, Linguistics +17, Survival, Disguise +18
*Finally, we have Malfeshnekor. As I mentioned earlier, outsiders get quite a windfall of skills in PFRPG. Malfeshnekor gets 8 (outsider base) + 4 (INT bonus) + 5 (for 10 HD) = 17 skills. This is, to put it lightly, an F-ton. As you can see above, Malfeshnekor can do just about anything; I even toyed with giving him a craft or profession. I suppose he could have picked it up as a hobby during his 10,000 year imprisonment.

So there we have it. I will conclude with 3 things I like and 3 things I think need changing.

I LIKE
-how easy it is to convert multiclass.
-the streamlined CMB system.
-the new feat and XP progression.

NEEDS CHANGE
-Skills. Monsters such as outsiders now are renaissance men. Please fix this by lowering their base skills from 8+INT to 6+INT or even to 4+INT. Similarly, I feel that Rogues and other high starting skill classes will all look the same skillwise by 10th level. While I enjoy the collapsing of skills, I feel that the PFRPG designers should match this change by lowering the skills available to each character. The easiest way to do this would be to lower the base starting skills of rogues, and perhaps bards and rangers, in the way I have outlined for outsiders above.

-Athletic feat. Very few PCs fly. Please change the +2 fly to +2 climb.

-The Fighter. Weapon training groups are a little silly. Also, the masteries are too sudden; please stretch them out a bit.


A couple addendums:

1) I did not give Malfeshnekor a new feat; he should gain one more from the conversion. I like Improved Trip or Improved Disarm.

Also, while not in my conversion, I just realized this also needs changing:

2) The Raven Familiar—I see that this now gives the standard +3 bonus to the now quite respectable Appraise skill. Yet, as with all familiars, it grants Alertness, which is now +2 Perception AND +2 Appraise. I think this makes the Raven, already a strong choice for its small size and flying ability the best choice of familiar. I recommend changing this bonus to +3 Linguistics (Mr. Poe would approve).


Thanks for this! Since I am play testing using Chapter One, it will save me a lot of work!


Awesome work! Keep it up!


This is awesome!

I plan to make much use of it!

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

The Pathfinder Wiki has a section expressly for organizing and listing conversions. Check it out, and feel free to add to it if you're doing the work anyway. It's under the portal for PRPG.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

It's important to note that NPC's with character classes generally have new class abilities. Both Nualia and Orik Vancaskerkin both get bravery for their 2nd level of fighter, and anyone with domain powers or school specialization should recalculate spells and at-wills. These are all denoted on the wiki, with explanations of all changes made.


Are there any new updates now that the beta is out?

Thanks,
Sterling


Casting Thread Resurrection...

I'm currently running Burnt Offerings and have been converting to PFRPG rules on the fly. The party's getting close to Malfeshnekor, and I was wondering how other folks handled his conversion.

I was thinking of using a greater barghest from the Bestiary and applying the advanced template to it. Seems like the way to go, but would that be too much? That would put him at CR 8, but the party's pretty tough (when they don't get in each other's way...) and M doesn't have much room to maneuver in his prison.


We wrapped up the encounter with M last nite. I just used a greater barghest from the bestiary & it was more than sufficiently challenging for my 3rd level group. Prolly depend heavily on what a party has to offset the DR, blink, etc.

.


M's lack of maneuverability was the big benefit to the heroes in this encounter. Well, that and a paladin with Smite Evil and Enlarge...

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