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The Inclusion Of A New Core Race... What would it be?


Races & Classes

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I definately think a new core race (or 3) is just what the Pathfinder rulebook needs. My choice would be a Satyr type or Faun (i.e. Narnia), minotaur-ish; some sort of horned/hoofed humanoid. I think that another strength centered race would be a bit boring, though. This race would be able to easily have a favored Bard class and could have an interesting culture, with wine-related, joyful countenance and a medium to small size. I like that this race is familiar to everyone, with a good strong background in mythology, and would not be too odd in context with the others.

Flight is too strong of an ability to include with a base class, though it could be more like a "glide" ability than flight, allowing bonuses to jump, and giving a feather fall effect if there is enough room for wingspan. If this were the case, I could definately go for a ringed base race.

I like the idea of a half-goblin or lizard race also. A mermaid-type could be cool. I made a salamander based race for a past campaign that preferred water and had a lizar-is look.

Please don't pick the drow - that would be too much of a nod to the 4e, and would take the "exoticness" out of the drow race that is part of the reason why they are so awesome to play.


I 'd love to see the Aasimar added to the core book.
In fact, I think it would be cool to have all the classic planetouched (Aasimar, Tieflin, Genasi) as available races for players. But it is because I'm playing a lot in the Forgotten Realms setting.


I reckon they should put the Gnome back in as a core race.

Oh wait. Wrong thread...

3.x allows us to measure PCs and NPCs by the same yardstick. 4th Edition openly admits that PCs are different to NPCs and monsters.

So I say that Pathfinder does not need a new core race.

I would rather see all races done as core races, perhaps in a separate book.

Crazy, untested idea:
Instead of picking a race and then applying the benefits and modifiers at first level, you would pick a race and apply benefits and modifiers at each level gained. The process would look very similar to the extra abilities that Specialist Wizards get per level in the current release of PFRPG.

For example: Some race selections, such as Drow are somewhat predetermined (Dancing Lights, Faerie Fire, Darkness, Levitation, etc), but I want to know what a Drow would get at 20th Level! Similarly, it would be cool to see what some of the original races would get if they ere extrapolated out to 20th-30th level. Would humans keep getting extra feats? Would Dwarves get Stone Shape, Rock to Mud or Stone Tell abilities? Half-Elves could perhaps mix-and-match abilities from either the Human and Elf progression tree.

Hmmm, have I just reinvented gestalt characters? (ie: is a 5th Level Fighter that has taken Stone Giant racial progression is effectively a 5th level Stone Giant / 5th Level Fighter?) You would have to up the CR of encounters accordingly, which sorta defeats the purpose of this.

I'll throw this out there anyway in case someone can make this work.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

Illumians!

Is shot.

But since that's not possible, Tieflings and Aasimar in some form would be nice.

Though half-goblin has some appeal...

Maybe they could inherit random mental tics.


Freehold DM wrote:
Hmm...a new race? I'd like to see Paizo bring back a race that was lost to antiquity, such as the lupin(as someone mentioned on another thread) or maybe something else out of the Dragon compendium, if they can use those races, that is. The Dvati come to mind.

Lost to antiquity... puts on thinking cap

OK... I got it.

With the requests for Psionic rules in PF, how about the Deyrini.

OK, so there would be some legal issues with that, on a couple of fronts. But you gotta admit, they are certainly lost to antiquity.

Was certainly one of my favorite issues of Dragon when they were statted out. :o)


Yes, new core races give a little flavor as does a new base class. However, in 3rd edition (or 3.75 as some call Pathfinder) races are much easier than classes. There are three good options to pick from for races to add.

Lesser Ogre / Lesser Giant
- Using rules that imply big size such as like Wizards' goliath race.

Lizardfolk
- PC type lizard character with LA +0 but not Dragon-themed

Pixie
- Nonflying tiny faerie (ok this is a bit of a stretch)

Cheliax

Last night I sat down and worked out what a Pathfinder Dragonborn might look like if it was included as a core race. Here it is for your consideration:

Dragonborn
+2 Strength, +2 Charisma, -2 Dexterity, -2 Wisdom; Dragonborn are strong and gregarious, but they are somewhat clumsy and have a hard time understanding "lesser races."
Medium: As Medium creatures, Dragonborn have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Dragonborn base land speed is 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Dragonborn can see twice as far as humans in poor lighting conditions.
+2 racial bonus to Armor Class.
Dragonborn are immune to magical fear effects.
Automatic Languages: Common and Draconic. Bonus Languages: Elven, Dwarven, Giant, Goblin, Halfling, and Orc
Favored Class: Fighter or Sorcerer (Draconic Bloodline Only). A multiclass Dragonborn’s fighter or sorcerer class does not count when determining whether he takes and experience point penalty.

I have debated back and forth over including a breath weapon for the race but I feel that it would make it too overpowered to be a ECL +0 race. Besides not all dragon blooded races have a breath weapon, look at Kobalds or Dragonlance's Draconians for example.

Cheliax

Shakor wrote:


Crazy, untested idea:
Instead of picking a race and then applying the benefits and modifiers at first level, you would pick a race and apply benefits and modifiers at each level gained. The process would look very similar to the extra abilities that Specialist Wizards get per level in the current release of PFRPG.

They are using this very mechanic in 4th Edition. It is one of the few things that I like about the new edition and would be glad to see it included in Pathfinder. The only problem I see is that it would expand the page count by at least 14 pages if not more and it would mean that our beloved Pathfinder team would have to do a lot more work coming up with some good options.


There are a lot of folks suggesting half-giants, half-ogres, half-goblins, etc. Also, a number of people are pushing for a new 'furry' race, be it Lupin, Rakasta, Minotaur, Wemic, and so forth. Then, some postings ask for a flying/gliding race.

FWIW, I like all these ideas, I hope they all get worked into a race expansion for PFRPG. At the moment, I'm less concerned about what kind of creature a proposed new race would be than its accompanying flavour.

How about a new race whose preferred class is something unusual? Monk, for example. I would not be opposed to one of the expansion classes, such as Warlock, Scout, Hexblade, Psion, or the like. Again, that may be more in the realm of an expansion, though it would be nice to have these classes intergrated into PFRPG from the start, rather than dropped in at some later date. A pipe dream, perhaps, but I digress.

I find all the suggestions have merit, and I like a great many of them, but I have to agree with those who question what role the new race will play in the game.

That being said, I do have a couple, more specific suggestions:

In ages past, there was a race of Tiny-sized squirrel folk called Kerpka. They were allied to the elves, acting as eyes & ears. I like this idea for a proposed race. With a 'flying squirrel' Kerpka variant, the game could have its new flying/gliding race, with fewer space considerations than an Aracochra [sp?]. Favoured class: Scout

I'm a big fan of the Warhammer Skaven [Neek! Neek!], to the point that I have a Skaven tattoo. Obviously, they are copyrighted/trademarked.

For my campaign, I have adapted the Skaven into the Vyrmen. Same basic premise: Ratfolk. Culturally, I have them allied to wererats and each 'clan' worships a different demon lord. Favoured class: Psion.

So, those are my suggestions. Having thrown more gasoline on the fire, I shall now run and hide.

Cheliax

M. Balmer wrote:


I'm a big fan of the Warhammer Skaven [Neek! Neek!], to the point that I have a Skaven tattoo. Obviously, they are copyrighted/trademarked.

For my campaign, I have adapted the Skaven into the Vyrmen. Same basic premise: Ratfolk. Culturally, I have them allied to wererats and each 'clan' worships a different demon lord. Favoured class: Psion.

In White Wolf's Scarred Lands setting there is a similar race called the Slitheren. There are different breeds depending on which Titan was instrumental in their creation and each breed has a different prefered class. Some breeds have rouge, others ranger, and at least one breed has sorcerer as their favored class. Such a class would be interesting considering most peoples natural aversion to rats, especially if they were not inherentally evil.

Qadira

M. Balmer wrote:
There are a lot of folks suggesting half-giants, half-ogres, half-goblins, etc. Also, a number of people are pushing for a new 'furry' race, be it Lupin, Rakasta, Minotaur, Wemic, and so forth. Then, some postings ask for a flying/gliding race.

The Phanton: the glider possum from Isle of Dread - they like to carry knives in their prehensil tails.

You couldnt get any furrier.


Has anyone mentioned Half-Dwarves yet ? I've never understood why Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are so common but Half-Dwarves are virtually unheard of.

Another interesting option would be something similar to the Cursed from Ravenloft. Rather than a race unto themselves, however, it would probably work better as a template to be added to characters who have been warped by dark magics and transformed into something freakish, often while still in the womb. By creating a list of abilities to chose from, a player interested in creating a "Cursed" or "Tainted" character could choose to customize his freak as he or she saw fit. That way if someone wanted to play a Dwarven Hunchback with a vestigial tail and a club foot, or an anthropomorphic beast, or scaled monstrosity, they could.

Anyways, just thought I'd add my two cents.


Dear God, please no anthropophormic animals. I hate having furry crap in games I play, and if it's in the core manual, somebody's going to want to play one every time.

And I think planetouched and dragonborn are a bad idea because A: a lot of people hate dragonborn, and B: too much like the hated 4e...

my vote goes to half giants or goblins.

Cheliax

Velderan wrote:

Dear God, please no anthropophormic animals. I hate having furry crap in games I play, and if it's in the core manual, somebody's going to want to play one every time.

And I think planetouched and dragonborn are a bad idea because A: a lot of people hate dragonborn, and B: too much like the hated 4e...

my vote goes to half giants or goblins.

I guess that this all depends on your taste in characters and gaming. Remember that gnolls, minotaurs, lizardmen, and the like are all "furry" by definition, but they don't get hated on like cat-folk do. I personally fell in love with cat-like characters when I watched Star Trek:TAS as a kid.Lieutenant M'ress was the most interesting character on the show to me, and it wasn't until almost 20 years later that I was introduced to anime. So I have never really considered anthropomorphic animals of any kind to be anime or "furry" because they have been around since the myths and legends of ancient Greece and Egypt.

Dragonborn are another matter. I'm not sure about all these people who say they don't like them because half the group that I'm currently playing in is running a dragonborn or half-dragon character. I personally don't think the dragonborn is bad, its just too powerful to be a ECL +0 race.


Thraxus wrote:
Szombulis wrote:
Gotta be liking the moo-cow minotaur. I have no idea how to dumb-down its innate power level to a 1st-level playable character, though.

This was something I had worked up for a homebrew that never fully developed. They were loosely based on Kyrnnish Minotaurs. It would need to be reworked for PFRPG, but you could strip down a Minotaur.

Tauren Racial Traits
+2 Strength, –2 Dexterity, –2 Charisma. Tauren are powerfully built, but not very agile. Their arrogance and aggressive natures can be offensive to other races.

Medium: As Medium creatures, taurens have no special bonuses or penalties.

Tauren base land speed is 30 feet.

Low-Light Vision: A tauren can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.

Weapon Proficiency: Tauren receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the hand axe, rapier, saber, and throwing axe as bonus feats.

Natural Armor: A tauren has exceptionally tough hides, which give them a +1 natural armor bonus to AC.

Natural Attack: A tauren may use his horns as natural weapons to make a gore attack, dealing 1d6 points of damage (plus Strength modifier). If the tauren charges, his gore attack deals 2d6 points of damage plus 1-1/2 times his Strength modifier). A tauren can attack with a weapon and use his gore attack as a secondary attack (at a –5 penalty on the attack roll and only half his Strength bonus on the damage roll)

+2 racial bonus on Intimidate, Swim, and Use Rope checks. Tauren are familiar with the sea, and are naturally adept at skills useful among seafarers.

Tauren with a Wisdom score of 13 may take the Scent special quality as a feat.

Minotaur blood: For all effects related to race, tauren is considered a minotaur.

Automatic Languages: Common, Giant. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc.

Favored Class: Swashbuckler. A multiclass tauren’s swashbuckler...

If they aren't very quick, why swashbuckler? I would think more like Viking barbarian. Plus, maybe ditch horns and give that 1/2 giant oversized weapon thingie.

just my $.02

Osirion

Yuan-ti (or variation on the snake-people theme). Lots of mythology centers around snake people as ancient sorcerers and leaders, even creating entire societies. And then throw in things like Thoth-Amon/Thulsa Doom in Conan give further credence to the grounding of such a race.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

I vote Goblins or Kobolds. Those are the two Monstrous Races I see people play most, and with Pathfinder, we've got some great Goblin flavor to work with.

Non-OGL, I absolutely love Kenku, but I won't hold my breath for something kenkuesque (It just wouldn't be the same anyways).

And since I like to play weird characters, I've been wanting to try out that Soulbound Doll or whatever it was called that they introduced in the first Crimson Throne issue.

Or Maybe a Pseudodragon now that they have that totally awesome Impslaying feat available.


Freehold DM wrote:
Hmm...a new race? I'd like to see Paizo bring back a race that was lost to antiquity, such as the lupin(as someone mentioned on another thread) or maybe something else out of the Dragon compendium, if they can use those races, that is. The Dvati come to mind.

I'd have to agree also I think the Tibit was in that compendium too love to see that one and why not try balancing certain popular races from the monster manual like tiefling and drow? Different ethinicities of human might be cool too like desert,polar tropic born ect.


Something with a tail would be cool -a tail you can use like Nightcrawler from X-men can!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Pseudodragon.


What if you gave a Mongrelman feats like those Shifters of Eberron get?

Imagine being able to "shift" into an aspect of one of your mongrel races.

As to a "cat-folk", there are the Tabaxi in the Mystara settng. They had an Oriental style and there was a Dragon article that created different sub-races based on felines that just screamed "Thunder- Thunder- Thundercats Ho!"

Centaurs would be nice as a player race, I was surprised to see them in Ptolus as such.

With Monte Cook on board, I would love to see a "Arcana Unearthed-Pathfinder style" book with races, classes and spells modified for the Pathfinder setting.

And as if you need another web comic to read, but you might want to check out Crossroads . It is interesting from a fantasy race point of view, because there are no Humans here.


Please, no more "little" races or cross-breeds!

I'm not very interested in flying people, just because of adventure design considerations (at lower levels where flying is uncommon). Not especially interested in outsiders. And although I love cats, I've no desire to play one...

PC race ideas I like: lizardfolk/yuan-ti/kuo-toa, etc.--fishy/snaky, with good intelligence (and can breathe under water). Intelligent golem (but with appropriate vulnerabilities to make it balanced for play at low levels--could be flesh, metal, stone, but nothing too exotic). Shapeshifter, but cannot change size/mass (no green-skinned goliath!); perhaps can alter body to boost strength at the expense of speed or toughen skin at the expense of dexterity; can mimic/disguise itself, etc. I've always had a soft spot for Dark Sun's Thri-Kreen. Or for something really different, howzabout a silicon-based life form--a crystal man? These last two would really give experimental roleplayers something to gnaw on at the table...

Cheliax

QXL99 wrote:

Please, no more "little" races or cross-breeds!

I'm not very interested in flying people, just because of adventure design considerations (at lower levels where flying is uncommon). Not especially interested in outsiders. And although I love cats, I've no desire to play one...

PC race ideas I like: lizardfolk/yuan-ti/kuo-toa, etc.--fishy/snaky, with good intelligence (and can breathe under water). Intelligent golem (but with appropriate vulnerabilities to make it balanced for play at low levels--could be flesh, metal, stone, but nothing too exotic). Shapeshifter, but cannot change size/mass (no green-skinned goliath!); perhaps can alter body to boost strength at the expense of speed or toughen skin at the expense of dexterity; can mimic/disguise itself, etc. I've always had a soft spot for Dark Sun's Thri-Kreen. Or for something really different, howzabout a silicon-based life form--a crystal man? These last two would really give experimental roleplayers something to gnaw on at the table...

What about some variation of the warforged, shifter, or changeling.

Cheliax RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Contributor

flash_cxxi wrote:


I agree that a new core PC race should be a flying race ...
A new race would be the best way to go about this, something along the lines of:
+2 DEX +2 WIS -2 CON
Dextrous and wise, but slight of build (to aid in flying).
Low Light Vision
Wings: Can fly at their base speed with Good/Excellent Manoeuvrability.

That's probably it. Maybe another minor ability, but wings on their own are quite powerful (imho), so you don't want to give them too much.

One option, just to keep hollow-boned bird-people from being either:

(a) way, way over-powered, because they're as tough as humans but can also fly, or
(b) easily breakable, because they've got 1/8th the hp of the rest of the party, after their Con loss and a vicious ECL adjustment . . .

. . . would be to slap them with some sort of "lightness" penalty: -4 on all Grapples & Overruns, -4 on all attempts to Trip or Disarm an opponent, considered Small size for purposes of weapon damage, something like that.

Eh?

Other than that, the call seems to be for: little furry people w/tails and big, dumb Ogre monsters.

Cheliax

After going to see Kung Fu Panda with my kids today I finally know exactly what I want. I want a race like the WoW Panderians with monk as their favored class. I am willing to beg if need be.


I'm adding the race of centaur to the list. I love 'em, and they just don't get enough love outside of Dragonlance(and even then, not much). So either the lupin, or the centaur. Or both.


I am surprised at how often the phanaton or lizardfolk and a few others keep getting mentioned. I have not checked the whole boards since about page 4, but I think we should start keeping a tally (ala the obituary threads) for the different requests. If someone has more time than me please do so?? If not I will be on vacation soon and get to it then.

Andoran

There are a number of niches that could be filled with new races...However, are they needed?

Probably not.

If new races were added though id like to see a nice representation...

Catfolk...most like this idea I find...but what to call them. Kzin? if its not trademarked. Nimble hunters.

Lizardfolk....also an old favorite. You could even subrace them to desert dwellers with a chameleon ability and swamp dwellers with water breathing....Once more, what to name them comes to mind...Sauraigs?

Yuan Ti is a good idea. Very mythological..however, it would be hard put to have them accepted.

Gnolls...a very fun race to run.

Kobolds...fun as well

I personally would like to see an old Arduin Grimoire race broght back (only the old timers will recognize this)...The Phraint...and antlike insect man...mantis humanoid. Chitin color coded and all. ;)


I like centaurs, they balance better as a mighty build race I expect.

Kercpa! yes! I agree! Does WoTC even own the rights to 1 and 2e stuff? cuz that was all TSR, which is now defunct, right? Or did they buy the rights? Also doesn't copyright expire after a while anyway?

Otherwise hobgoblins could work pretty easily, but I think we should stay away from minotaurs(too WoW) and any draconics or planetouched.
Although....I understand a lot of people liked Kobolds, and the name of Paizo's mag is Kobold....not a fan of the critters as PCs myself, but there is a certain appeal there.

I kind of like the gentle giant suggestion, but I think they don't sound like they would make good adventurers, personality-wise.


How about Half-Terrasques? Or Half Half-Giants; they're half half -giant, half halfling! That brings this to mind: Are giants having sex with humans? Really?

Or Ducks.

Or, no more crappy half somethings or part animal somethings. I don't think Pathfinder needs a new race, but if they do, I hope they pick something so original nobody has mentioned it yet.


I would love to see Paizo re-write the Dvati and give it a coherent rule set.

^..^

-S


i think my call would be for Sidhe(fae elf like creatures, mucho chrisma bonus), Powrie(fae half orc like creatures with maws of shark like teeth) and Nocker(fae tinkers who can create anything and mine like the devil.).

Psudodragons and intelligent ravens or cats(not cat people, something much more like H.P. Lovecrafts take of cats in the dream lands) would also get my vote.

i can just see a raven sorcerer squabling with the gnome rogue about who gets the pretty jewlry from the dead noble woman they just ambushed on the road.

Cheliax

Wouldn't it be great if we all put our ideas together and created a Races of Golarin e-book that could then be made available here or some other site.


If it hasn't already been mentioned I'd like to suggest the lowly Boggard. If I'm not mistaken these little critters can get along in any setting. Sure they'll get funny looks in a big city but the bestiary (sp?) states they can originate from pretty much anywhere that has a watersource nearby. Maybe some "Toadkin" can live in city sewers perhaps??

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