The Inclusion Of A New Core Race... What would it be?

[Idran]

Locworks wrote:

It's very easy to take a new player and point to the various races in the LoTR movies to explain what a dwarf or a halfling look and may act like. More experienced players can handle celestials, lovecraftian creatures or monsters but these are not covered as well in literature and movies as *playable races* i.e. heroes and therefore harder to grasp than the stout dwarf or the lucky halfling.

There's something amusing about saying lovecraftian creatures aren't covered well in literature. :D

[Arctaris]

flash_cxxi wrote:

Craig Clark wrote:

Seeing how there is a flying skill, how about the aarakocra...

Just don't call them birdborn or featherborn, or something else lame (and copyrightable).

I agree that a new core PC race should be a flying race to showcase one of the new rules.

I really like the Derhii from J3 Crucible of Chaos and was a bit miffed that there were no rules presented for making them a PC race in the entry. I think somehow that they would be a little more powerful than a "Base Race".
A new race would be the best way to go about this, something along the lines of:
+2 DEX +2 WIS -2 CON
Dextrous and wise, but slight of build (to aid in flying).
Low Light Vision
Wings: Can fly at their base speed with Good/Excellent Manoeuvrability.

That's probably it. Maybe another minor ability, but wings on their own are quite powerful (imho), so you don't want to give them too much.

If you gave them Average manuverability and made it so that they could only fly for a limited time, than it wouldn't be too overpowered. Perhaps you can fly for a number rounds equal to your constitution. To stay aloft you have to make a fortitude save (DC 15+1 for each previous save?) to remain airborn. Then also tack on a cooldown time, maybe an number of rounds equal to the amount of time spent flying or 2xthe constitution score and it seems like it would be fairly balanced

[Thraxus]

Szombulis wrote:

Gotta be liking the moo-cow minotaur. I have no idea how to dumb-down its innate power level to a 1st-level playable character, though.

This was something I had worked up for a homebrew that never fully developed. They were loosely based on Kyrnnish Minotaurs. It would need to be reworked for PFRPG, but you could strip down a Minotaur.

Tauren Racial Traits
+2 Strength, –2 Dexterity, –2 Charisma. Tauren are powerfully built, but not very agile. Their arrogance and aggressive natures can be offensive to other races.

Medium: As Medium creatures, taurens have no special bonuses or penalties.

Tauren base land speed is 30 feet.

Low-Light Vision: A tauren can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.

Weapon Proficiency: Tauren receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the hand axe, rapier, saber, and throwing axe as bonus feats.

Natural Armor: A tauren has exceptionally tough hides, which give them a +1 natural armor bonus to AC.

Natural Attack: A tauren may use his horns as natural weapons to make a gore attack, dealing 1d6 points of damage (plus Strength modifier). If the tauren charges, his gore attack deals 2d6 points of damage plus 1-1/2 times his Strength modifier). A tauren can attack with a weapon and use his gore attack as a secondary attack (at a –5 penalty on the attack roll and only half his Strength bonus on the damage roll)

+2 racial bonus on Intimidate, Swim, and Use Rope checks. Tauren are familiar with the sea, and are naturally adept at skills useful among seafarers.

Tauren with a Wisdom score of 13 may take the Scent special quality as a feat.

Minotaur blood: For all effects related to race, tauren is considered a minotaur.

Automatic Languages: Common, Giant. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc.

Favored Class: Swashbuckler. A multiclass tauren’s swashbuckler class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.

[Thraxus]

I am afraid a flying race would be unbalanced. I would not mind a giant-blooded race, tough I would favor something similar to the Trollborn from 2e Vikings book.

I would give them a bonus to Con and Cha, with a penalty to Dex. Bonus to intimidation and Sorcerer as a favored class. It would fit the idea of their unworldly nature and would be a good fit for the Lands of the Linnorn Kings.

[hallucitor]

Richard Pett wrote:

Actually a half-goblin is a pretty tempting prospect to have a go at...hmm.

Other than I'm sick of seeing "half" in front of so many races, I'm all with you... an old home kit project I had years ago had "half goblins"... granted, mine were gangly but human height and had gray green skin, but half goblins all the same.

I'm also quite fond of goblins (full blood) as well.

[hallucitor]

Heathansson wrote:

I always liked mongrelmen and kenku.

I know, not ogl or whatever.

I know, I like both the mongrelmen and kenku... and lizardfolk.

You know, the kenku could be called Ravenites, or crowfolk.
(or ravenfolk)...
or something.

[Kruelaid]

Flying race.

[SageSTL]

My thoughts- Leonin (as in Arcana Unearthed/Diamond Throne/Ptolus), tieflings/aasimar, or Half-Giants.

[BM]

*Note: I apologize for the wall of text. And quoting.*

To those who think a winged flying race with average maneuverability would be overpowered or broken, read the new fly skill.

A PC at level 1 will have 4 ranks in fly. I'm assuming no modifiers.

First the rules on moving while flying.

Pathfinder RPG wrote:

Check: You can perform maneuvers while flying. Without
making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the
end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than
half its speed, can turn up to 45 degrees by sacrificing 5
feet of movement, can rise at half speed at an angle of 45
degrees, and can descend at any angle at normal speed. Note
that these restrictions only apply to movement taken during
your current turn. At the beginning of the next turn, you
can move in a different direction than you did the previous
turn without making a check. Taking any action that
violates these rules requires a check. The difficulty of these
maneuvers varies, as noted on the following chart.
Flying Maneuver Fly DC
Move less than half speed and remain flying 10
Hover 15
Turn greater than 45° by spending 5 feet 15
of movement
Turn 180° by spending 10 feet of movement 20
Fly up at greater than 45° 20

The minimum roll needed to pass any of these checks is a 6, two at 11 and other two at 16. Failure to make the check means you must move following the above rules. Make note of the must move at half speed.

Pathfinder RPG wrote:

Collision while flying: If you are using wings to fly and you
collide with an object equal to your size or larger you must
immediately make a DC 25 Fly check to avoid plummeting
to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage

Now, taking the must at least fly half speed, one must take into consideration of the most place for the party to be in. Namely, a dungeon. Now given that most templates that give flying to PCs gives them a speed of 60ft, I will assume that is the speed our would be race would have. With the speed determined, it comes down to the size of the room. How many rooms are clear for 30 feet of any obstacles? It really comes down to the size of the monster meant to be in the room. At level 1, you tend not to fight large monsters. So.. about 30x30. In a room like that you're going to run out of room sooner or later, especially since you can't fly into a area occupied by a enemy. And once you do its auto-failure, and falling damage from a fall 20ft or higher will cripple, if not kill a level 1 PC.

Since a mentioned monsters in above...

Pathfinder RPG wrote:

Being attacked while flying: You are not considered flatfooted
while flying. If you are flying using wings and you
take damage while flying, you must make a DC 10 Fly check
to avoid losing 10 feet of altitude.

So if you fly by enemies and invoke AoOs you most likely going to be knocked out of the sky, particularly if you get hit multiple times. Or shoot with an arrow. Or zap with a spell. Or repeatedly take any form of damage.

And lastly...

Pathfinder RPG wrote:

If you are using wings and you fail this check by 5 or more, you plummet to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage.

In short at any time that a PC fails a fly skill by 5 or more they fall and take damage, making flight risky. Given that the checks 2 of the checks for movement will cause you to fall(potentially to your death) on a roll of 6 or lower and 2 more will cause to fall at 11, a level 1 PC will have to take flight carefully or die an early death.

I don't see why giving winged flight to a level 1 PC is such a bad thing, given the new rules. By the time they can take wing safely, the party wizard or druid has access to a means of flight.(the fly spell and wildshape respectively.)

And before anyone tells me that they can take 10 on the rolls, I want to be out the fly skill, interestingly enough, does not.

Pathfinder RPG wrote:

Special: Creatures with a fly speed receive this skill for
free as a class skill. They also receive a bonus (or penalty)
on all Fly checks depending on their maneuverability.
Creatures with clumsy maneuverability take a –8 penalty
on all Fly checks.
Creatures with poor maneuverability take a –4 penalty
on all Fly checks.
Creatures with good maneuverability get a +4 racial
bonus on all Fly checks.
Creatures with perfect maneuverability get a +8 racial
bonus on all Fly checks.
Creatures without a maneuverability rating are assumed
to have an average maneuverability and take no penalty on
Fly checks.
You cannot take this skill without a natural means of flight
or a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or
other magical manner, such as a druid’s wild shape ability).

Now incomperasion to say the swim skill

SRD wrote:

A creature with a swim speed can move through water at its indicated speed without making Swim checks. It gains a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform a special action or avoid a hazard. The creature always can choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered when swimming. Such a creature can use the run action while swimming, provided that it swims in a straight line.

Since the fly skill lacks such a section, a flying PC cannot take 10 on a roll.

[Saurstalk]

Actually ... after Return of the Runelords, I may just have to change my vote to half-giants. It DOES make sense.

[Kevin Mack]

I would go with catfolk or something similar (since i dont think we could use the name catfolk). Partially because im admitadly a big fan of playing them and secoundly it would be really easy to do them by simply altering the way they come at the moment heres an example.

Catling

Dex +2
Cha +2
Int -2

Catlings are agile and have easy to get along with personalitys but they dont have the patiance for long study or planning.

+2 to sound based perception checks +2 bonus to stealth checks

Catlings have naturaly good ears and are adapt at moving undetected

this is just from 5 minutes looking through the old catfolk entry and altering a few slight things.

Now the 40ft land speed and +1 natural Ac are the sticking points for me since im not sure if they would be overpowerd and im still thinking on weapon proficencies and any other useful things so feedback would be appreciated.

[Nighthunter]

How about something different. What Fantasy Race slot isn't accounted for

Humans - Adaptable Anything (Leader, All Below)
Halflings - Sneaky/Small (Sneak)
Gnomes - Funny/Small (Comic-Relief)
Dwarves - Sturdy/Gruff (Muscle)
Elves - Graceful/Smart (Brains)
Half-Orcs - Strong/Ugly (Savage)
Half-Elves - Adaptable/Cool (Diplomat)

I think the following racial archetypes are missing -
The Gentle Giant. I'd go with the following -
Mungo
Often called Biguns by the other races, the Mungo are a race of friendly giants that live in crags and mountain ranges. Genial and Friendly by nature, the Mungo are famed for their broad appetites and mighty singing voices.
Mungo see Humans, Halflings and Elves as little siblings who they should take care of. Dwarves and Gnomes both distrust Mungo for their close tie to giantkin, as such Mungo are often intimidated by the two races. Mungos have no enmity at all to either of the half-races and Mungos and Half-Orcs often enjoy good-natured competition regarding feats of strength.
Mungo Racial Traits
+2 Str, +2 Cha, -2 Dex (Bigguns are Strong and Friendly, but somewhat clumsy).
Medium Size: Bigguns are medium sized, but their mighty build gives them bonuses as if they were one size category larger.
Lead Feet - Bigguns have a 20 foot land speed.
Mighty: Bigguns are treated as Large creatures for the purposes of their Maneuvre Bonus and when determining penalties for weapon sizes, they still only have a medium creature's reach).
Mighty Voice: Bigguns gain a +2 bonus on Diplomacy and Performance (Singing) checks.
Big Mountaineer: A Mungo gains a +2 bonus to Acrobatics Checks.
Languages: Bigguns begin play knowing Common and Giant, Bigguns with high intelligence scores can choose any of the following: Halfling, Elven, Orc or Goblin.
Favoured Class - Ranger

[geekling]

Arctaris wrote:

If you gave them Average manuverability and made it so that they could only fly for a limited time, than it wouldn't be too overpowered.

Or perhaps even a glider, rather than an outright flyer.

Not a race that have wings like birds, but more "wings" in the spirit of flying squirrels.

One that can not flap their wings and take off into flight as much as need to jump off something providing a minimum altitude (say 5-10ft if it's a tiny creature, and a PC race in the tiny category would be very, very nifty) to get them started. Then need apropriate skillchecks to keep from loosing that altitude at a certain rate, or even to gain altitude.

[fliprushman]

I would have to say, use the Half-giant. I like how the race is set up with it's flavor and think it could use a nonpsionic makeover. Plus from what I'm reading, it does sound like it fits into the RotRL.

[Locworks]

Idran wrote:

Locworks wrote:

It's very easy to take a new player and point to the various races in the LoTR movies to explain what a dwarf or a halfling look and may act like. More experienced players can handle celestials, lovecraftian creatures or monsters but these are not covered as well in literature and movies as *playable races* i.e. heroes and therefore harder to grasp than the stout dwarf or the lucky halfling.

There's something amusing about saying lovecraftian creatures aren't covered well in literature. :D

I wrote "are not covered as well in literature and movies as *playable races* i.e. heroes". They are very well covered as *monsters* to avoid or to destroy.

[Haelis]

tribeof1 wrote:

I wonder if Monte Cook's giant PC race from Arcana Unearthed is OGL? Mechanically, they'd tread on the half-orcs toes a bit, but could be a fun "civilized strong guy" race, maybe with a background as titan spawn or something.

I would LOVe to see some AE races in Golarion! Hu-Charrad (the giant payable race), and Mojh in particular would be fantastic, but the Faen would be great too!

I have already decided to allow Hu-Charrad in Golarion, but I have no idea where they come from yet :s

Btw, would Paizo have the rights to use Tieflings or Aassimar? I would love to see them as a core race but without the ECL. Staying closer to 2e stats would be nice too :)

[revshafer]

My youngest daughter wants Giants from Arcana Unearthed/Evolved.

Thanks,

Scott

[IconoclasticScream]

I've never been sadder than I am reading this thread that the flumph isn't OGL.

[Ketheria_mt]

I would be interested in seeing something like one of the spelljammer races from 2E.

One was a simian race with the ability to glide like a flying squirrel (borrowed from Star Frontiers I believe).

Another is a breed of intelligent, civilized (usually lawful evil) orcs called the Scro.
(I don't know if the name Scro could be used though).

I didn't care much for the Giff, but that would be an option for a heavyweight warrior minded race (of hippo men).

But, if Paizo is trying to keep the base offering within the bounds of the OGL, then all this is moot unless they pull in one of the races from the psionic side.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Elan or Half-Giant.

Then again, I'd like to see psionics as the third branch of magic:
Arcane
Divine
Mental

-mt

[Arctaris]

My personal vote would be for goblins to be a core race. Sure they're evil little bastards but they're cool and funny.

[Neithan]

I think goblin would be the only race that would be both balanced without LA (in whatever form it might appear) and somewhat usable in a generic campaign.

[Neithan]

IconoclasticScream wrote:

I've never been sadder than I am reading this thread that the flumph isn't OGL.

The flumph isn't SRD, but it isn't D&D either. I'm fairly sure I've seen a third party monster book that had the flumph. As redundant as it is...

[Betote]

Tauren (or any half-animal) sounds good for any anime-oriented campaign (and I'm not using anime in a negative way). The "man made of metal" (or MMM) is another option, and it would support certain setting from certain company :D

[Ismellmonkey]

Although I also don’t think pathfinder needs a new core race, I always felt a race of noble giants would be cool. Back in 2nd edition I changed Firbolgs to meet this image, what I’m thinking is.

+2 Strength & Charisma: strong with a noble spirit.
-2 Dexterity: They don’t do back flips or cartwheels.
Resistance to negative energy: +2 to save against necromantic spells and the attacks of undead.
Knowledge (nobility): Becomes a class skill for them even if the don’t have it, as well as getting a +2 bonus
Diplomacy: same as above.
Favored Class: paladin

I don’t really have my notes any more to do a proper conversion, I’m just sorta mussing over an old idea.

[IconoclasticScream]

Neithan wrote:

The flumph isn't SRD, but it isn't D&D either.

It's not? Someone needs to check its alignment then, because breaking into my first edition Fiend Folio sure isn't a lawful act. :)

[Mactaka]

Some sort of giant-type since it fits with Varisia at least. Don't know about Golarion as a whole (have to wait for the Gazetteer for that one).

A flying race to highlight the flying skill/new flying rules.

Something akin to deep ones to get the lovecraftian vibe.

goblins/goblinoids.

[flash_cxxi]

Arctaris wrote:

My personal vote would be for goblins to be a core race. Sure they're evil little bastards but they're cool and funny.

What!! Not Kobolds??

Kobold Cleaver will be turning in his grave =)
err... oh wait he's not dead. Turning in his kobold bed pallet then!

IconoclasticScream wrote:

I've never been sadder than I am reading this thread that the flumph isn't OGL.

Ahhh, but is Flumph one of those magical, mystical creatures Copyrighted by WotC like the **cough** Big Eyeball holdering a Bee?

If not is it possible to use it anyway?

Obviously the wealth of mythological creatures are unable to be copyrighted by anyone, so they are fair game for anyone to use/change as they see fit. What is the go with using creatures from other sources that aren't OGL per se? Do they have a copyright on them, or are they free reign?

[Trey]

hallucitor wrote:

You know, the kenku could be called Ravenites, or crowfolk.
(or ravenfolk)...
or something.

Or Ravn (Danish/Norwegian), or if you want to go really dark, Valravn.

[seekerofshadowlight]

I really want to see a large rave . 1/2 orger,halfgaint some one used the name troll born what about makeing em humans with mighty build from the get go maybe a +2str +2 con -2 int not sure what else to give such a race but its an ideal.

[Gotham Gamemaster]

A new race wouldn't be core whether they were included in the final rulebook or not, it would be an included variant. Golarion's appeal lies in "classic world revisited" rather than "variant world"--the latter are plentiful enough on the market already.

So please, Paizo, no warforged, no tieflings, no dragonborn--those are the exact fantasy elements I'm seeking refuge from in Pathfinder Chronicles.

[seekerofshadowlight]

yeah im with ya man nothing to odd an new demi human maybe that would be cool. or lupins gods i love lupins.

[yellowdingo]

Goblins...? Perhaps it is time to have all the PC usable races from the Monster Manual.

That included Doppleganger, Araena, Troll, Goblin, Hobgoblin...

[Studpuffin]

hallucitor wrote:

Richard Pett wrote:

Actually a half-goblin is a pretty tempting prospect to have a go at...hmm.

Other than I'm sick of seeing "half" in front of so many races, I'm all with you... an old home kit project I had years ago had "half goblins"... granted, mine were gangly but human height and had gray green skin, but half goblins all the same.

I'm also quite fond of goblins (full blood) as well.

Half-Goblin and Half-Halfling...

THE GOBLING!

[delabarre]

Aasimar and Tiefling are OGL, so at some point they should be addressed (and we've already seen Aasimar and Tiefling NPCs in RotRL), I'd just as soon that they were handled alongside the other core races.

Warforged are unfortunately not OGL (TTBOMK).

In no particular order, these could make decent core PC races (IMHO) with a bit of work:
* Minotaurs (bovine humanoids)
* ?? (feline humanoids)
* "Lycans"/?? (canine humanoids)
* Genie-descended humanoids or playable Jann (Genasi are not OGL, Jann are)
* Some kind of reptilian humanoid race...?

[blope]

My vote is no new races in the core book.

I wouldn't mind seeing (ONE) races book though.

And my suggestion for there is:
Liontaurs!(wemic)

[Rogan]

I have always liked Centuars. Something noble about them. Of course that's just my 2 cents...

[tribeof1]

It sounds like there's a lot of support for a giant-related race of some kind, but another possibility would be a general "planetouched" race with optional bloodlines that could cover the celestial/fiendish/elemental bases.

Jason's already hinted that bloodlines will factor into the revised Sorcerer, so maybe something similar could be done here. This also gets around genasi not being OGL, because you're taking the OGL planetouched and adding elemental backgrounds.

I'd say you'd probably want to have a set of base characteristics shared by all planetouched (native outsider type, darkvision) then add ability mods and energy resistances based on bloodline. I definitely think Charisma should not be penalized on most planetouched -- I'd even consider making Sorcerer the favored class for all, but you could switch it up by bloodline. You also could split the tiefling into diabolic and demonic bloodlines, for a little added fun.

A couple of examples:

Celestial Planetouched: +2 Wis, +2 Cha (might get by with no penalty, since both bonuses are to mental scores), resist 5: cold, electricity (or whatever), Favored Class: Paladin

Diabolic Planetouched: +2 Int, -2 Wis, +2 Cha, resist 5: fire, acid, Favored Class: Wizard

Elemental (Earth) Planetouched: +2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Wis, resist 5: acid, cold, Favored Class: Fighter

Elemental (Fire) Planetouched: +2 Dex, -2 Wis, +2 Cha, resist 10: fire, Favored Class: Sorcerer

[Timault Azal-Darkwarren]

I agree that there is not a need for a new core race. It's "core" and should remain such. As for other races...

Here are some ideas that have been brewing or I agree with...

Unseelie fey / goblin hybrid
Deep Ones
"gobling" (halfling goblin hybrid)

[Jodah]

I dont think they should make a new race. However, I can certainly see a semi-monstrous race being re-statted to be a PC race. Hobgoblins, for example, could be re-imagined as a viable race. Or Goblins.

Also, another vote for Sahuagin! some sort of malenti perhaps, or straight-up, full-blooded fishmen.

Also, I would love to see kenku or changelings. but, theyre not OGL, so...cant see it happening.

[Curaigh]

Hmm... noone has suggested the original Paizonians

WERECABBAGES!!

[Absinth]

I doubt that plane-touched races are an option. The planes of Golarion aren't developed at all at this point and surely the question on how they are would arise when players start making up backgrounds for their PCs.

I like the idea of a flying race, but I think this is kinda hard to pull off without having LA and balncing issues. Flying on low levels will propably raise many problems when using low level modules.

The idea for a giant-race (half-giant or something similar) would be nice because of the background in Varisia, but I can't think of unique traits (besides their size) that would devide them from dwarfs or half-orcs.

I'd like to have a Kenku-like race. That would rock. I'm not interested in seeing Goblins as a PC race. Might be fun for experienced players, but propably not for newbies. And they aren't that bright and would raise problems in social setting ("Look! A goblin! Kill it!").

I'd like to have a new PC race as well, but I can't think of anything that would fit all the requirements of a PC race and is unique as well.

[Curaigh]

geekling wrote:

Or perhaps even a glider, rather than an outright flyer.

Not a race that have wings like birds, but more "wings" in the spirit of flying squirrels.
....

Since introducing Phanatons in the STAP I have had two characters take them as a player race. I know they are not OGL, but they could be a springboard for something.

If something new was to be introduced it would have be as integral to galorian as warforged are to Eberron so something drastically unique. Half giants and partgobs would be a close start, but they would not be as original as needed for a unique 'core'

Keep in mind these suggestions are mostly for brainstorming...

Furling or other awakened critter aka Reepacheap, Beaver, Aslan.
Treefolk (make that a +0 critter and you have something going) aka treebeard (ok I did make something like this, but it was unbalanced and looked an awful lot like the goliath :)
Stonewalkers aka Relg
an intelligent shade of blue
a tiny 'dragon' aka Lockheed
saurial aka Dragonbait
lycans/lupins (poor misunderstood Remus/Sharon) though a were raven was a favorite mini of mine...
wookies aka Indiana (j/k)

others I have toyed with
worglins (goblin centuars I once created)
Mutants (anyone remember the sci-fi DnD game--Alpha something)I remember having four arms and blue skin...
elemental (an awakened/humanoid version) not the critter
Gorn/sleestack
Hatchlings (what I call my herps)
myconids

just to start something going...

[DarkWhite]

I'm in favour of a winged race - Aarakocra, Avariel (winged-elves) or whatever Ghoul Stirges were before they became undead (with appropriate back-story) would be good! Such a race could help demonstrate the new Fly skill.

I'd *really* like to see PC racial versions of Lyrakien, Goblins, Ogre-kin or Llamia (Wemic substitute).

[DarkWhite]

I'm in favour of a winged race - Aarakocra, Avariel (winged-elves) or whatever Ghoul Stirges were before they became undead (with appropriate back-story) would be good! Such a race could help demonstrate the new Fly skill.

I'd *really* like to see PC racial versions of Lyrakien, Goblins, Ogre-kin or Llamia (Wemic substitute).

[David Fryer]

Get rid of all the halfbreed races. It doesn't make sense that elves and orcs could breed with humans but not anyone else. Then add a cat-like race similar to Mystara's rakastas and a draconic race like the dragonborn, or Draconians. Finally something wild like a pegataur, phanaton, or one of those flying minotaurs from Mystara. If you have to keep the halfbloods than maybe a half-dwarf like Muls from Dark Sun.

[Jodah]

Yes, it does make sense that humans can breed with Orcs and elves. It's a species ring. A single progenitor race that later became humans also gave rise to a subterranian subspecies and a weird magic-altered subspecies. The Orcs and elves have since differentiated too far from eachother to interbreed, but they still maintain enough commonality with the base stock, and intermixing via humans has kept the three races similair enough over the millenia to facilitate halfbreeds.

Why do people have such a problem with half-races? they make perfect sense. Dont be so literal with the meaning of "race," it can mean anything from species to subspecies to breed to completely different phylum.

[David Fryer]

Yes, but if you dig into the backstory of each race you don't find a single progenitor race, you find that god A created elves, god B created orcs, and no one knows which god created humans. If it had been described as a single progenitor species that branched off into the three races, that would be great but the fact is that it isn't. That's why I have problems with half-breeds. Besides I said that it doesn't make sense that humans can ONLY breed with elves and orcs. I don't have a problem with halfbreeds per say, I just think it should be all or nothing.

[delabarre]

David Fryer wrote:

Yes, but if you dig into the backstory of each race you don't find a single progenitor race, you find that god A created elves, god B created orcs, and no one knows which god created humans. If it had been described as a single progenitor species that branched off into the three races, that would be great but the fact is that it isn't. That's why I have problems with half-breeds. Besides I said that it doesn't make sense that humans can ONLY breed with elves and orcs. I don't have a problem with halfbreeds per say, I just think it should be all or nothing.

Funny I was just pondering something like this last week. Without magical intercession, in order for half-elves and half-orcs to be genetically feasible, it suggests that the only difference between humans and elves (and orcs) is a vanishingly small amount of genetic material, even less than the difference between humans and mountain gorillas (with whom we cannot interbreed to the best of my knowledge, which is admittedly sketchy on this subject).

[yellowdingo]

I have to go with all the PC potential races being in the Player Handbook.

Goblin
Kobold
Bugbear
Centaur
Giants
Gnoll
Grimlock
Hobgoblin
Kuo-Toan
lizardfolk
Merefolk
Orc
Planetouched
Sahuagin
Salamander
Slaadi
Troglodyte
Xill
Yuan-ti

There is a fair number to select from. THey will probably go with Giant though.