How perfect is this? I recently got my hands on "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk." Waxing nostalgic for our AoW characters (TPK'ed in "Spire of Long Shadows"), I agreed to allow those same PCs to be "de-advanced" back to 8th level so we could use them for "Greyhawk"--we'd simply assume that those events occurred when the group was in the Free City anyway (in and around "Hall of Harsh Reflections" and "Champion's Belt"), and make sure any dead characters got resurrected (to explain how they could end up in the AoW again, campaign-wise). Well, imagine our surprise when Loris Raknian showed up in the ruins--especially in light of the fact that the greatest regret in AoW was the failure to track him down and finish him!
This is a really great combo, highly recommended for any of the groups out there who prefer a slower rate of advancement. You can enter the city and set up HQ at the Green Dragon, then run the first part of HoHR, take a side trip into the Tower of War, finish off the Hall, and so on.
That sounds really good. If I get the chance to run AoW again and do a better job of it, I'll probably also integrate Castle Greyhawk.
Just started the tie-in with Castle Greyhawk. Will also tie-in with Return of the eight, as Tenser (Manzorian) is still dead in my campaign. Did run a solo The Devil's embrace for on of the players who had gotten raised 2 times already. He is a Paladin who thinks he's got the artefact for Boccob's church of Greyhawk, when he did for the agent of the "Castle Greyhawk Iggwilv" in town, posing as cleric of Boccob...
Cool! Has "Return of the Eight" been re-issued in 3/3.5e, or did you update it yourself? (I never did see the original, as it was released while we were off playing assorted other games waiting for 3rd edition to come along but not realizing it yet).
No official update for Rot8, but almost finished my own. It will be pretty straightforward:
- most of the monsters were updated in various 3/3.5 editions, I tracked them down with references. Some other I will replace or update myself (like the Slow Shadow, I did not find any update for that one, but it may exist somewhere in a Wizards book I do not own, or in third party products...).
- as for the NPCs, it is not too difficult to get a suitable Half/Orc barbarian, or 10th level mage from another 3rd edition source.
The rest (traps and so on) will be updated on the fly...
As soon as finished, I can post the result here if you're interested.
Rgds
lta
lta,
For Paizo's 3e slow shadow, see Dungeon magazine #112 (Maure Castle, an update of "Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure" or whatever the 2e one was called). It's available as a fairly inexpensive PDF.
Never having played "Eight," the nostalgia value of a conversion would be somewhat lost on my group, I fear. Hope it goes exceptionally well in your campaign--sounds like a great tie-in, from what I've read.
Happy gaming!
Thanks for the Dungeon 112 heads up! I have it but did not remember Slow Shadows were in it!
Thanks for the Dungeon 112 heads up!
I'm very happy to be of help -- that's what the boards are for!
I'm currently running this adventure (EttRoG), as a follow-on mini-campaign with newly rolled 8th level characters. Only one player ran through Age of Worms, but the tie-ins should be good. So far the only tie-in has been quite vague (the captured priest was also a victim in "mad god's key", my pre-cursor to Age of Worms), but there are some good ones to come...
I'm changing Mordenkainen to be Eligos - having Mordy turn up is just going to be a bit too much (Tenser was enough, can't have all the world's powerful NPC's featuring all the time!) Eligos will now be an agent of Mordenkainen (as well as Tenser, or maybe he's done with Tenser). My players liked Eligos last time - his picture has him all scowling, my players all said, "oh, this guy is just so evil!", so it took them a long time to trust him properly.
I've posted a fair bit about the adventures so far, and some advice, on the wizards boards - shouldn't be hard to find if you are interested (more contributors there would be welcome, I've struggled to find many posts for advice!) So far we're only about 1/3 the way through. If you do want to run this, I'd say it will take a while, but it does have some fun encounters and also some great opportunities for side-treks and general role-play all over the place including the city itself.
I think you can pretty much plonk Eligos in the library instead of Mordenkainen, and modify his dialogue a little bit to be him describing the plans etc of his master (who may or may not be named). You can probably also trim that monologue a bit - that whole chapter seems far too wordy in places, your players might fall asleep.
I think you can pretty much plonk Eligos in the library instead of Mordenkainen, and modify his dialogue a little bit to be him describing the plans etc of his master (who may or may not be named). You can probably also trim that monologue a bit - that whole chapter seems far too wordy in places, your players might fall asleep.
I also prefer to have the characters help Eligios "research" what the deal is with the shadow duplicates, so that there's less of a sense of "go do this!" and more of a sense of "oh, wow, what are we going to do about this?" I'd also add in something about "evil duplicates of heroes past" as maybe one of the omens that presages the Age of Worms, just to tie things in a bit more.
For those interested in ties-in, mine with Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk and Return of the Eight is going pretty well. I also added Fiend's embrace from Dungeon.
For those who know of the contents of both, here is how my version is going.
The players had a great time "reviving" Tenser who could then take up his role in AoW. Also, as the witch has a part into this, I have her involved with the following twist: she has been aware of the creation of a simulacrum from the very moment it was done (you cannot triffle with witches'hair and get away with it unnoticed). From that moment on, she kept an eye on what was going on under Castle GH. She was kept busy by her involvemnent with Tuerny (cf Return of the Eight) and now is considering getting involved again into GH affairs...
Livashti is a double-agent, and in truth a spawn of the real witch-queen. While impersonating a Boccob's cleric, she sponsored a solo expedition of the groups's Paladin of Pelor to a lost compound in the swamps to the east of GH City to recover a lost artifact of the Witch-Queen for safe-keeping and avoiding it to fall into wrong hands (Fiend's embrace). He did very well. Hehe, at the end of Return of the Eight, the With-Queen appeared drapped in it... the look on the face of the Paladin's player!
Now the "Boccob's priest" is gone (with Riggby's corpse), and the player's are 60% done with Castle GH. Their major motivation to go there has been finding Loris Racknian, a big villain in their mind that divination magic revealed to them he had taken refuge in the ruins, and more recently they were commissionned by Mordy to find Robilar/Bilarro. So far, they have found no trace of them, but they stand at the point where they defeated Vayne, and witnessed the second imprisonment of the Old One (great moment). Vayne's post mortem interrogation revealed that Iuz's army (that they stopped under the War Tower) had travelled through the underdark guided by sinister men from [bold]Worm[/bold]keep castle in the Bandit Kingdoms, close the the Rift Canyon... Next foray will lead them to Racknian!
For those of you considering to tie in RotE - make the petrified pseudodragon in Xyrxog's lair Edwina, Jallarzi's familiar. That goes smoothly, omitting the staged "mamsels in distress" lead-in.
Egocentrix,
I'd be very interested in further details concerning your tie in of Rot8. What did you do to the magic items? How does your Tuerney look like? Wht levels had your PCs when they started Rot8? And could you please point me to monster references (Verme, ...) Did you leave the original storyline intact? I plan on leaving the circle of the Eight intact, as Tenser has been dead for years and the circle reformed in between; and will work around with Celeste who takes on Warnes role (too much old wizards otherwise...)
Good luck and lots of fun with this classic to you! Luna!
Hello Armnaxis. Below some answers. I don't have access to the actual data used, but can complete later on if you need.
I kept the storyline intact, and had assumed from the start of AoW that the Circle had not reformed yet (that the events of Rot8 had not happened yet). We are all old-timers with not much time left for play (wives + children + work etc). In our student days, the only appearance of one member of the circle in a crowd was an event. And they never actually spoke to one. I wanted this campaign to rain down iconic on their heads (without this ruining the challenge though).
2 players first had the "Damsel in distress" episode, explored Jallarzi's tower (where they found Spawns of Kyuss :-)) and were later joined by the rest of the band when going to Magepoint. I kept Eligos dead though (not back from the dead in Magepoint as per AoW normal storyline. There was no point there).
I could update most of the monsters from existing 3.5 conversions (Official, Dungeon for Slow Shadows, Maure Castle issue, heads up from someone on this same forum), except a few, for instance:
- the Verme, which I planned to replace by a dragon turtle but did not have to use actually use it
- the Animated Statue (I found some similar monster in a monster manual)
- Rot Grub (version in Tome of Horrors)
Tenser's magic items have been updated by a Greyhawk fan. I think I found the link through Canonfire. Conversions seemed mostly satisfying to me. I can give you a link to the pdf if needed (compiled with all GH magic items updated so far. Very useful).
The storyline went quite as per module (they realized who was Tenser and Jallarzi, wished them back and so on...).
My Tuerny was a Nalfeshnee demon + 12 lvls of magic use. Retrospectively, it was not enough. 3-4 more levels would have been better, almost as per the original module. He entertained them for some time perched atop one of the ruined buildings (I made it a tower) placed around the plazza-gate on Luna. He was invisible (improved), and rained down spells on them. But when they actually made contact he did not last long enough for my taste.
I had Iggwilv appear as described, time stop everyone, tease the Paladin about her Fiend's Embrace cloack, and depart.
After that the Circle reformed and Tenser is an ally to them, but all these grey beards are busy chasing info all across the planes about the witch-queen wereabouts. Not much help to the PC's for the AoW... This explains also why the Witch keeps some distance from Castle GH, even if she knows about the simulacrum.
At the moment, Iuz is imprisoned under the Castle again, and they have almost made contact with Raknian (should happen tomorrow night actually).
Let me know if you want more info, and enjoy that part.
Hello Armnaxis. Below some answers. I don't have access to the actual data used, but can complete later on if you need.
Great! Your input is warmly welcome!
My players started to be involved in Rot8 progressively, around lvl 11-12.
That's exactly where my will start (right after Champion's Belt). Did you skip A Gathering of Winds in the process?
I wanted this campaign to rain down iconic on their heads (without this ruining the challenge though).
I'm still working with this idea. On the one hand, some of my players have never heard the name Mordenkainen, so myabe they wont fully appreciate the full attention of the circle... on the other hand, this module is THE module for introducing the circle; it's sort of now or never.
2 players first had the "Damsel in distress" episode
I'll skip that, as one of my players plans to stone-to-flesh the pseudodragon from Zyrxog; it'll be Edwina.
explored Jallarzi's tower (where they found Spawns of Kyuss :-))
Hm, did you leave them by intention then? Initially, I thought that there was no point in tying in Kyuss this time. But maybe some confusion won't hurt.
I could update most of the monsters from existing 3.5 conversions (Official, Dungeon for Slow Shadows, Maure Castle issue, heads up from someone on this same forum), except a few, for instance:
- the Verme, which I planned to replace by a dragon turtle but did not have to use actually use it
- the Animated Statue (I found some similar monster in a monster manual)
- Rot Grub (version in Tome of Horrors)
I found rot grub in Dungeonscape (much recommended book, btw.) I have build slow shadows going from normal shadows, but am not totally convinced that I got it right. Could you please point me to the Dungeon issues' #?
Tenser's magic items have been updated by a Greyhawk fan. I think I found the link through Canonfire. Conversions seemed mostly satisfying to me. I can give you a link to the pdf if needed (compiled with all GH magic items updated so far. Very useful).
Awesome! Yeah, that link would be very appreciated, thanks!
My Tuerny was a Nalfeshnee demon + 12 lvls of magic use. Retrospectively, it was not enough. 3-4 more levels would have been better, almost as per the original module. He entertained them for some time perched atop one of the ruined buildings (I made it a tower)...
That's a very useful tip. I was zig-zagging in between giving him full 15 levels in wizard (in order to cast symbol of insanity, for instance), and scaling that down because of the big CR22 tag this would theoretically entail... I'll keep the 15 levels then; after all, he can only cast OR claw in a given round, and the nalfashnee form gives him much needed defense. And he is alone.
What did you do to the dust of sneezing and choking, and to the brazier of sleep smoke in the Shack Town Shakedown? These items seem very, well, AD&Dish, and I certainly don't want them in my players hands.
Again, thank you Egocentrix for this insight! And good fun in Castle Gewyhawk! (BTW, My PCs got a grasp on Loris Raknian, and quite literally so... When he was to leave the arena after the final battle (realizing that no apostle showed up), the sorcerer pulled him into the arena's dust via telekinesis... next session they'll have a duell as a means to settle accusations)
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I like the idea of adding side quests or addtional adventures to the Ap's, particularly if they involve the PC's or is somthing initiated because of their own actions.
However,the way XP works in the game it can cause all sorts of headaches. So my question is this; when you add addtional adventures/side quests into the AP how do you as a DM deal with this? I almost feel that in cases like this its almost better to just ditch the xp all together and just tell the players when to level up.
In answer to the 2 previous posts.
I had seen your idea of introducing Edwina in Zyrxog's abode. Very good!
I did not skip A gathering of Winds, which, if not furthering much the plot proved a very enjoyable adventure.
Slow shadow is in Dungeon #112 (a bunch of updated monsters at the end).
GH items at OerthJournal of course ! Very very useful compilation.
As for the Rot Grub, I did not have Dungeonscape at that time. I acquired it recently but a quick look did not impress me much. Interested in your tips to the best parts...
My players never followed the Shacktown track unfortunately (simulacrum of Vayne, with EttRoCG to follow...). But I agree with your comments.
Be careful with Tuerny though. I did not mention there were 5 of them to chase him. Which unalanced the fight a little.
Let me know about your band in next adventure. Mine suffered greatly in Kuluth-Mar...2 pc lost, almost 3.
Savage_Monkey: I do tell them when to level up. I always found D&D3/3.5 XP system too quick. That way I can manage leveling. This being said, they are sometimes ahead of schedule anyway. But it is not much trouble to upgrade a little bit the encounters if necessary (adding a few toughs rather than boosting the boss). I intend on having them finish clearly in Epic range. Kyuss and the players deserve it.
As for the sidetrecks: I don't regret, even if they slow down the AP, and sometimes make the players wonder what is the best/most urgent course of action (they are still exploring Castle GH, but heard about an Ebon Triad cell dismantled in Alhaster. They also learnt by Tenser that he thinks it was the destination of Buknard after his expedition to Kuluth-Mar...).
Good play!
Oh, Greyhawk Magic Item Compendium, very very useful indeed. Thanks!
The slow shadows in Dun112 seem much better than mine, so thanks for that, too.
I used to calculate XP with Excel Spreadsheets and that worked quite well for levels 1-10, but now it goes too fast for my taste. I'm still undecided whether to change the progression table or going freestyle.
Concerning Dungeonscape, I liked most the items section (magic and mundane), the Dungeonmaster PrC, some monster templates, alternate feats for monsters (weapon finesse for Rust Monsters!), and most of the fluff concerning dungeon-building and economy. The Factotum class seems interesting on paper, but I'll have to see it in play.
I'm actually merging AoW with Pathfinder: RotRL - I ran the 1st module Burnt Offerings as is and I ran the first half of Skimsaw murders - In my Campaigne the skimsaw man is actually one of Alden Foxgloves man servants who retrieved among other things the Apostolic Scrolls and tried to sell them to the Ebon Triad (greed theme)and got turned into a ghoul/Ghast for his foolish attempt to swindle more money out of the cult and became a tool for harvesting souls of greed.
Meanwhile Alden Foxgloves estate is actually located on the out skirts of Diamond lake, Alden is very much alive and is secretly practicing necromancy in an effort to bring his lover back to the living, realizing he made a grave mistake.
The PC's will follow the murders and the strange seven pointed star from Sandpoint to Diamond lake. Knowing the skimsaw man has a connection with Alden. The lady player of the group will go to his estate for dinner after recieving an invitation so I can play up on how he's alil creepy. The PC's will also experience how much of a ghetto Diamond lake is before they chase the skimsaw man into the Whispering Caern.
Filge is a compatiot of Aldens but that will remain behind the scenes for now. Alden will denie even knowing of the man existance. Alden will also try and earn the parties trust by intoducing the party to Allustan who can tell them more about the Whispering Caern findings.
For the Three Faces of Evil. The PC's will learn that the Apostolic Scrolls have been delivered to the Ebon Triad and that they have a Temple in Dowerstones Mine. I Figure i'll have the PC's chase the Apostolic Scrolls for awhile. This is as far in planing as I've gotten.
After closer inspection, I'd rather not update Tenser's magic items with the Greyhawk manual; way too much power for my 12th level characters. Instead, I went the extra mile and converted them on my own, and closer to the original (or at least that's what I intended to do).
The PCs will be offered to choose one item each, which will have a price tag around 15k. In addition to the items from "Jay", which I have tuned down a bit, Tuerneys box (much smaller as well), and the items found along the way, this still will be enough to push their wealth over the recommended allotment.
If any of you are interested, PM me for a PDF of my conversion of Tensers items.
We have now succesfully concluded "Return of the Eight", it was a great success. Luna! Tuerney! Iggwilv! Good times!
Tuerney was a Nalfashnee Wizard 15 with several big slots exhausted, and no INT enhancer (freely calculated at CR17). In retrospect, his DCs were a bit low, but it was a long and entertaining fight - he polymorphed a PC into a frog, mazed another and put a third on hold with forcecage. As the PCs had cast <i>tongues</i> on Tenser, he had told them that Tuerney probably had his ring of multiple wishes in the big metal box - which he dropped at the beginning of the fight. The PCs thus used telekinesis to get a hold on the box, Tenser got his ring out, and then used it to restore himself, Jallarzi (who had been bound and gagged earlier) and the polymorphed PC. In the end, Tuerney teleported away at 10HP left (of 360). Iggwilv even got a chance to curse a PC for his next three saving throws - he could not resist to show his middle finger to her!
If you are running AoW - get your hands on this classic and fun adventure! The adjustments with the NPCs and treasure is a bit nasty, but pays well of!
wont the return of the 8 + expedition to greyhawk add about 6 levels that were unintended in the path?
how do you deal with this?
wont the return of the 8 + expedition to greyhawk add about 6 levels that were unintended in the path?
how do you deal with this?
You are right, but I personnally always felt D&D 3/3.5 character levels went up too quickly.
From the start of my AoW AP (including RotE and EttRoGH) I decided I would grant directly levels to the players and not XP. This solved these issues. I slowed a little bit at the beginning of the AP, adapted encounters a little when necessary, and it worked more or less ok.Even if the players overall appretiated the 2 tie-ins, I may change this later on, for the next AP (not slow down and not tie-in other adventures) as we do not play often enough for such a long story arc it has resulted in.
Currently, the players are still exploring Tilagos Island and about to attack a certain group of cultists they compete with to get a certain feather... They have completed the 3 other trials... Their levels range from 16 to 17.
wont the return of the 8 + expedition to greyhawk add about 6 levels that were unintended in the path?
how do you deal with this?
You are right, but I personnally always felt D&D 3/3.5 character levels went up too quickly.
From the start of my AoW AP (including RotE and EttRoGH) I decided I would grant directly levels to the players and not XP. This solved these issues. I slowed a little bit at the beginning of the AP, adapted encounters a little when necessary, and it worked more or less ok.
I ended up just reducing XP gain to a quarter of normal. Otherwise, even with the base AP experience, even with there being six (now five) PCs, they were levelling up waaaaay too fast.
wont the return of the 8 + expedition to greyhawk add about 6 levels that were unintended in the path?
how do you deal with this?
I have 5 players, and don't mind them to have them the same levels that 4 players would have. Plus, they didn't do all that can be done in Rot8. Lastly, I wanted the sorc and the fav soul to have level 7 slots (PC level 14) when they start SoLS. So for me, running Rot8 didn't pose a problem XP-wise - on the contrary.
I have to admit though that I ususally prefer (much) slower progression. Still, as we game about once a month, the entire AP will still take more than 2 years to complete.