New Magic System - Zelazny-Style Spellcasting


3.5/d20/OGL

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If anyone just wants some of the Amber Chronicles flavor, but retaining the Pathfinder magic rules, I've statted some sorcerer bloodlines. The final Broken Pattern bloodline is further down the page.

The Exchange

I wish I had seen this ages ago. Love Zelazny. I think Amber has to be one of his harder to emulate spell systems. I find it amusing that Ultimate Magic will have a words of power system. Since this was one of his easier to adjust systems he made up. In his novels he seems to have about four different ones. I have glanced at the PDF and will print it off and comment back about it when I can Ross. I hope will useful insight.I ran Amber Diceless RPG for about 4 years and playtested another game that was sadly never produced. It is probably the best diceless system out there. But is not for everyone.


Now I know where this came from:

Stat modifier limitation: Spell casters may only prepare or know a number of spells, of each level, equal to their Stat modifier. This limit represents the spell caster’s ability to channel magical energy.

This was not in a game emulating the Z, but was used to 'encourage' better Casting modifiers. Apparently, several players had dipped into spell casting classes for specialized spell selections.


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Couldn't resist postin' in the necro post.

How about adding magic from Zelazny's Dilvish the Damned as well? Since we already have the elf boots.

I wouldn't mind having a half elf fighter say a word of power and level a city.

Greg

Grand Lodge

This is awesome and will be implemented immediately!

Amber is one of my all time favorites.

SM

Sovereign Court

Will there be PF modifications implemented, and, are those even necessary?


Dot for later.


and what if we create our own spellcasting system?

idea:
Spell cost = 1 per spell level (0 level have no cost)
spell points equal the spell caster level plus her casting modifier

at every level the classes instead gain spell slot, those same spell slots are treated like spell points?

1st level wizard int 16
Spell points: 5 (1 from level 1, 1 from wizard slot and 3 per modifier)
wizard level 2 has 6 spell points
wizard level 3rd gets 7 spell points

or every spell cost 1 point and you have points equal your mod plus half level or something

or make spell points like hit points!!
Hit Die Spell Point Die
d6-----------d8
d8-----------d6
d10----------d4
d12------------
and add the mod by level

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Crimson Jester wrote:
I wish I had seen this ages ago. Love Zelazny. I think Amber has to be one of his harder to emulate spell systems. I find it amusing that Ultimate Magic will have a words of power system. Since this was one of his easier to adjust systems he made up. In his novels he seems to have about four different ones. I have glanced at the PDF and will print it off and comment back about it when I can Ross. I hope will useful insight.I ran Amber Diceless RPG for about 4 years and playtested another game that was sadly never produced. It is probably the best diceless system out there. But is not for everyone.

Actually I think most people here have gotten Zelazny and Amber spellcasting totally wrong. I see it as pure Vancian Casting, as done by Vance rather than the Vancian "Light" of D20/Pathfinder.


LazarX wrote:


Actually I think most people here have gotten Zelazny and Amber spellcasting totally wrong. I see it as pure Vancian Casting, as done by Vance rather than the Vancian "Light" of D20/Pathfinder.

What would "pure" Vancian casting look like in D20/Pathfinder? Keep in mind that I haven't read the books (yes, shame on me) and am more-or-less curious to know what the real difference would be like.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Tio wrote:
Has someone already taken a look at Amber Diceless RPG and the WIKI? And what were your thoughts?

We've played Amber Diceless. For character creation, it's the best system ever devised. The attribute auction, and freedom of develping your own artifacts & creatures, are unbeatable.

In actual play, it pretty much sucked. Number one, everyone has to be basically a god, and that limits the excitement of the D&D peasant-turned-adventurer-turned-noble archetype. Number two, the diceless system means you're all pretty much just making up a story; there's no real rules to it.

After two long multiple-session adventures, we gave up on the system and rolled up all our characters as 1st level D&D characters (adding a "Power over Shadow" feat and a "Walk in Shadow" skill), then played like them like that. They were almost without exception the favorite, most memorable characters in our long history of playing D&D.

To be fair, Amber wasn't designed for to be playing your average D+D peasant schumcks. It was designed for you to be playing Princes of Amber and Lords of Chaos who are pretty much Gods or Horror incarnate to the Shadowdwellers unfortunate enough to be caught up in their destinies. We're talking about people like Corwin who literally fights his way through an entire army at the stairs of Kolvir. We're talking about player characters who literally have the means to end the campaign and the Amber multiverse pumping through their veins.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Holy crap, people still care about this thread. I'm so proud.


Threadcromancy is a potent power in the Interwebs.

That being said, is your Zelazny Spellcasting set to work with Pathfinder or 3.5? :D

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

3.5.

Pathfinder wasn't even a beta when I first wrote this.


I figured as much from the section on cantrips/orisons. I have to say, very cool. There's something about having the flexibility to "hang" spells, cast right out of a spellbook or channel raw magic power that makes magic feel like it has more of a place in the world than just a game mechanic.

Have you tweaked the system any since Pathfinder came about?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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I keep intending to, but I haven't. I need to find the original .doc file so I can update some things.

For the most part, it still works. 0-level spells should still be hung, but you can stop worrying about counting them per day.

Power Ward, Divine Intervention, and the school powers all need work, though.


Definitely necro-ing this thread again, but if you need some help with the powers I had some thoughts while reading through the pdf. Also, just to sort of jumpstart things here -- I know some people were complaining about a low number of spells hung, so what about something like casting stat times caster level/3? I know most rules use something like level/2, but we are already well into the realm of home-brew, and this method clearly appeals to those who don't mind slightly more complicated casting. The way I see it, casting stat times level/3 (minimum equal to casting stat) gives you anywhere from 3-5 spells hung for a wizard at levels 1-5, 6-10 for levels 6-8, etc. It gets to be a lot at higher levels, but you guys have already suggested that the books are based in a relatively low-level type world where casters are king, which makes me think this system is geared more towards low-level campaigns to begin with (I haven't read any of Zelanzy's works, but this thread has me intrigued).

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

That particular limit was built backward from a quote that I have included in the document: that a good caster would have roughly six spells available. It was not designed with any sort of balance goal in mind.


Be proud of this post man, it inspired me to hack my own spell point system for pathfinder, I've tried to keep mechanics as simple as possible. I plan on posting imformation later on when I have time, busy getting the first adventure prepared, I'm running Carrion Hill and going for the Lovecraft feel in my campaign as I have hacked the Sanity Score into pathfinder, and am using bits and pieces of Hackmaster combat.


I know, this is a bit late, but isn't fireball already a better spell than cone of cold at level 9?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Spirelix wrote:
I know, this is a bit late, but isn't fireball already a better spell than cone of cold at level 9?

It has a lower DC and a more commonly resisted energy type, so no.

However, if/when I get around to updating it for Pathfinder, I'd remove that particular restriction. Blasting is difficult enough without putting another hurdle in it's way, while the enchanters, debuffers, and other non-damage based spellcasters get their spells at a more nominal cost.


Why is it that the Paladin and Ranger always get royally shanked when it comes to their spellcasting in 3.5? I mean it's bad enough that they're consistently tier 4 and 5 classes to begin with due to their extremely specific class features and the next-to-zero aid in spellcasting doesn't help them out at all. At the very least I'd give them half the amount of points the Bard gets. Really, anything to help them out because they struggled so bad in this edition.


link dead to pdf

BHH

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

They finally deleted my CS-department home directory. Only took 7 years after I graduated.

Scarab Sages

I'm interested in seeing this, but your link doesn't work.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I'd love to update and re-share at some point, but when I originally drafted this, I was a grad student.

Now I have a full-time job and a baby. Getting around to it may take awhile. Frankly, it's a miracle that the link lasted this long: it should have evaporated in the summer of 2009.

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