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Some Golarion questions


Pathfinder Campaign Setting General Discussion


I have some questions to the Golarion setting. Since I have the Pathfinder magazine only fragmentary so far (1-5) there are some open problems.

- Where exactly was Thassilon? Was it in complete Golarion or only in Varasia?

- Where is the 'arabic' race (cover pathfinder 4) and are there some information about them?

- There seems to be a chinese/japanese race according to some NPC names (pathfinder 1). There are they from?

Thanks for help.

Andoran

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tarek Kieselbach wrote:


I have some questions to the Golarion setting. Since I have the Pathfinder magazine only fragmentary so far (1-5) there are some open problems.

- Where exactly was Thassilon? Was it in complete Golarion or only in Varasia?

The descriptions pretty much put it as covered all of Varisia, plus the Varisian Gulf (where Bakrakhan used to be).

Tarek Kieselbach wrote:
- Where is the 'arabic' race (cover pathfinder 4) and are there some information about them?

They are from Qadira, which is a nation at the eastern end of the middle sea, and that's really all we know.

Tarek Kieselbach wrote:
- There seems to be a chinese/japanese race according to some NPC names (pathfinder 1). There are they from?

The nation of Minkai, on the continent of Tian Xia, which is on the opposite side of the world from Avistan (the continent where Varisia is). There is a polar land bridge, however.

Tarek Kieselbach wrote:

Thanks for help.

No problem!


Tarek Kieselbach wrote:


I have some questions to the Golarion setting. Since I have the Pathfinder magazine only fragmentary so far (1-5) there are some open problems.

- Where exactly was Thassilon? Was it in complete Golarion or only in Varasia?

My impression of this from the article in PF1 is that Thassilon was slightly larger than Varisia is now. It extended into the ocean to the West (Bakrakhan), and slightly further South (Haruka)

- Where is the 'arabic' race (cover pathfinder 4) and are there some information about them?

The character on the cover of PF4 is Kyra. Her character card in that issue says she is from Qadira, which is near the metropolis of Absalom on the world map from the Blog. I don't believe they have detailed that yet.

- There seems to be a chinese/japanese race according to some NPC names (pathfinder 1). There are they from?

The Kajitsus are originally from Minkai (PF1 p71). Once again, it has yet to be detailed, but the Paizo folks have said on other threads that it is similar to Japan.

Thanks for help.

If you do a quick scan through the Pathinder General Discussion and ROTR forums, you will find a ton of useful information. I know that I did. Especially check out the GM Reference threads by tdewitt, very useful if you're running the path.


If Thassilon was so mighty, why have they been only in Varisia?

Does that make sense?


Varisia was only Karzoug's part of Thassilon. We don't really know where the rest of it was, bar sunken Bakrakhan, but you can assume its was about seven times the size of Varisia. Or greater. However Varisia might be the only land with much of Thassilon left, what with being a frontier, full of dangers, etc.

We have yet to see another land.

Hope that helps.


vagrant-poet wrote:

Varisia was only Karzoug's part of Thassilon. We don't really know where the rest of it was, bar sunken Bakrakhan, but you can assume its was about seven times the size of Varisia. Or greater. However Varisia might be the only land with much of Thassilon left, what with being a frontier, full of dangers, etc.

We have yet to see another land.

Hope that helps.

We know that xin-shalast is in the Kodar Mountains (North of Varisia), Xin-Bakrakhan in an island of the Varisian Bay (probably in Hollow Mountain), and tha xin-Eurythnia near the actual Korvosa (the Sunken Queen are a monument of that kingdom). I supose that Varisia (and probably the Hold of Belzken and the Lands of Linnorn Kings) are all the ancient Thassilon.

Cheliax Contributor

Shisumo wrote:
Tarek Kieselbach wrote:


I have some questions to the Golarion setting. Since I have the Pathfinder magazine only fragmentary so far (1-5) there are some open problems.

- Where exactly was Thassilon? Was it in complete Golarion or only in Varasia?

The descriptions pretty much put it as covered all of Varisia, plus the Varisian Gulf (where Bakrakhan used to be).

Tarek Kieselbach wrote:
- Where is the 'arabic' race (cover pathfinder 4) and are there some information about them?

They are from Qadira, which is a nation at the eastern end of the middle sea, and that's really all we know.

Tarek Kieselbach wrote:
- There seems to be a chinese/japanese race according to some NPC names (pathfinder 1). There are they from?

The nation of Minkai, on the continent of Tian Xia, which is on the opposite side of the world from Avistan (the continent where Varisia is). There is a polar land bridge, however.

Tarek Kieselbach wrote:

Thanks for help.

No problem!

What Shisumo said.

Osirion

Tarek Kieselbach wrote:

If Thassilon was so mighty, why have they been only in Varisia?

Does that make sense?

Sure, it makes sense. But they weren't the only mighty empire of the time - sadly, I've forgotten the name of the 'even mightier empire' that also existed 10,000 years ago, which makes searches on that name fairly difficult...

Anyway, Golarion clearly subscribes to the ancient view that golden ages exist in the past. We were created (or made, or whatever) perfect, and the further we get from that creation, the worse we become. The Last Man, the god whose death ushered in the Age of Lost Omens, was the last of the first men, and clearly more powerful and more perfect than anyone now existing.

That's the long form, but it can explain why there were 2 highly advanced and incredibly powerful empires 10,000 years ago, and why nothing today measures up to them.

Drew Garrett

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Thassilon's footprint covered Varisia, but also several neighboring nations and large portions of the nearby ocean as well. What you see on the map of Varisia was, back in the days of Thassilon, the nations of Shalast and parts of Bakrakhan and Eurythnia. That leaves four other nations not even mentioned in nearby areas like the sea, the Hold of Belkzen, and the Lands of the Linnorm Kings. We haven't yet officially nailed down how big Thassilon was, since before we can even start to do that, we need to have our current world map finalized. Which it's not.

Andoran

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
agarrett wrote:
Tarek Kieselbach wrote:

If Thassilon was so mighty, why have they been only in Varisia?

Does that make sense?

Sure, it makes sense. But they weren't the only mighty empire of the time - sadly, I've forgotten the name of the 'even mightier empire' that also existed 10,000 years ago, which makes searches on that name fairly difficult...

That was Taldor, wasn't it?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Shisumo wrote:
agarrett wrote:
Tarek Kieselbach wrote:

If Thassilon was so mighty, why have they been only in Varisia?

Does that make sense?

Sure, it makes sense. But they weren't the only mighty empire of the time - sadly, I've forgotten the name of the 'even mightier empire' that also existed 10,000 years ago, which makes searches on that name fairly difficult...

That was Taldor, wasn't it?

Nope; the big empire that existed also in Thassilon's time was Azlant. In fact, Azlant was even bigger than Thassilon... but located hundreds, if not thousands, of miles out to sea to the west.

Taldor's a relatively new nation in the grand scheme of things.

Osirion

Azlant... isn't that the Atlantis analog (alliteration much? oy.) for Golarion? The uber-powerful and uber-magical island empire swallowed by the sea? I seem to recall Mr. Mona saying that there was such a thing in Golarion. And I'm sure he heard my Lilith-esque SQUEE when he said so as well, despite him being in Seattle and me being in Iraq at the time.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

daysoftheking wrote:
Azlant... isn't that the Atlantis analog (alliteration much? oy.) for Golarion? The uber-powerful and uber-magical island empire swallowed by the sea? I seem to recall Mr. Mona saying that there was such a thing in Golarion. And I'm sure he heard my Lilith-esque SQUEE when he said so as well, despite him being in Seattle and me being in Iraq at the time.

Yup; that's the one!


Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Runelords actually predicted that the destruction of Azlant was imminent and that the backlash would wipe them out as well.

That's why they "Turtled Up" and had to rise in the first place.


Michael F wrote:

The Runelords actually predicted that the destruction of Azlant was imminent and that the backlash would wipe them out as well.

That's why they "Turtled Up" and had to rise in the first place.

Though it's also been conectured recently, by Doctor Jacobs, that they could have worked together in order to save everyone.

Apparently they thought about that for a few moments and said, "Nah, screw that..." and set about saving their own individual hides.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Salama wrote:
Is there more information on Wartle than in Pathfinder #2 and #3? I've been thinking fleshing it out a little bit more, and would like to know how many residents it has and how many buildings it has approximately? I will make a map of Wartle, and wouldn't want to make it too small or big...

Nope; what's in PF2 and PF3 is all we've said about Wartle. It's probably about the same size as Turtleback Ferry.


James Jacobs wrote:
Salama wrote:
Is there more information on Wartle than in Pathfinder #2 and #3? I've been thinking fleshing it out a little bit more, and would like to know how many residents it has and how many buildings it has approximately? I will make a map of Wartle, and wouldn't want to make it too small or big...
Nope; what's in PF2 and PF3 is all we've said about Wartle. It's probably about the same size as Turtleback Ferry.

The info in Pathfinder's journal was great, although I pictured it a little smaller than Turtleback Ferry. So thanks for the clarification!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Salama wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Salama wrote:
Is there more information on Wartle than in Pathfinder #2 and #3? I've been thinking fleshing it out a little bit more, and would like to know how many residents it has and how many buildings it has approximately? I will make a map of Wartle, and wouldn't want to make it too small or big...
Nope; what's in PF2 and PF3 is all we've said about Wartle. It's probably about the same size as Turtleback Ferry.
The info in Pathfinder's journal was great, although I pictured it a little smaller than Turtleback Ferry. So thanks for the clarification!

It certainly works as a smaller settlement than Turtleback Ferry.


James Jacobs wrote:
Salama wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Salama wrote:
Is there more information on Wartle than in Pathfinder #2 and #3? I've been thinking fleshing it out a little bit more, and would like to know how many residents it has and how many buildings it has approximately? I will make a map of Wartle, and wouldn't want to make it too small or big...
Nope; what's in PF2 and PF3 is all we've said about Wartle. It's probably about the same size as Turtleback Ferry.
The info in Pathfinder's journal was great, although I pictured it a little smaller than Turtleback Ferry. So thanks for the clarification!
It certainly works as a smaller settlement than Turtleback Ferry.

Ok, now you're just confusing me =). Seriously, the point was that I wanted to know if there is some official answer to the size of Wartle. If it works smaller, I'll make it so. Maybe 200 residents or something. My vision of Wartle is that every building is build closely next to the other, and most of the village is build upon broadwalks. Something like Nulb, but not so spacious. And the buildings look like the one in Pirates of the Caribbean(the hut in the swamp).


I've got one...Where's a good place on Golarion to set the classic Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan, culture-wise?

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

Well, there's not an ethnographic analogue of Central or South America that we've detailed yet, but if you're willing to forgo that part of the adventure I'd think it would fit in very well in the Mwangi Expanse, or even better in the Sodden Lands off the coast of the Eye of Abendego. That is if you don't mind adding rain to spice up the atmosphere!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Salama wrote:
Ok, now you're just confusing me =). Seriously, the point was that I wanted to know if there is some official answer to the size of Wartle. If it works smaller, I'll make it so. Maybe 200 residents or something. My vision of Wartle is that every building is build closely next to the other, and most of the village is build upon broadwalks. Something like Nulb, but not so spacious. And the buildings look like the one in Pirates of the Caribbean(the hut in the swamp).

The point I was trying to make was that you've probably seen all we'll ever say about Wartle in the immediate future... if not ever. I certainly haven't put much thought into its size beyond what we've done with it... in the grand scheme of things, it's no Riddleport or Celwynvian or Urglin or other site that we have plans for. And I'm hesitant to pin down these things because it's real easy for people to take an off-the-cuff comment about something and POW all of a sudden it's canon and that limits our options 4 to 8 to 20 years down the road.

In any event, my advice is to make Wartle as big or small as you want. If you make it larger than Turtleback Ferry or Sandpoint, you'll have to change a lot about the region to incorporate another large settlement. Anything smaller than those towns should work fine.

Osirion

The only landmarks in terms of size are in the Mini Gazeteer in Hook Mountain and the blurb on Turtleback Ferry in the adventure in the same issue. Basically Turtleback Ferry is the same size as Ilsurian, more or less, which has a population of around 500. Officially the DMG lists this size as a "village". Sandpoint has closer to 1200 and thus falls right in the middle of the "small town" population range.

It seems likely that Wartle is smaller than any of these, a swamper settlement with a couple hundred folks--mostly gnomes mucking out a living by either trapping, hunting, or rooting around the swamps for mushrooms and the materials to make "bog grog". Conditions are likely pretty gross, people spattered or layered in gray-green mud most of the time. Buildings are likely built up on pontoons and have the look of shanties, made from scrap wood and hide flaps. Defense is also probably something these guys take seriously--though considering things like swamp giants and black dragons are the sorts of things that share their habitat, I'd imagine a lot of the strategies for defense involve hiding or at least holing up somewhere hard for big scary things to get into.

Taldor

Wartle City Hall

Pop: 101

Cheliax Contributor

Selk wrote:

Wartle City Hall

Pop: 101

Wow. They've really upgraded the place.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Grimcleaver wrote:
It seems likely that Wartle is smaller than any of these, a swamper settlement with a couple hundred folks--mostly gnomes mucking out a living by either trapping, hunting, or rooting around the swamps for mushrooms and the materials to make "bog grog". Conditions are likely pretty gross, people spattered or layered in gray-green mud most of the time.

If you have a couple hundred people who can cast prestidigitation as a spell-like ability then you don't need to be spattered or layered in gray-green mud most of the time. Of course, that's not to say that nobody makes that lifestyle choice...


Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
tbug wrote:
Of course, that's not to say that nobody makes that lifestyle choice...

The spell can soil stuff too. I'm just sayin'


Erik Mona wrote:

Well, there's not an ethnographic analogue of Central or South America that we've detailed yet, but if you're willing to forgo that part of the adventure I'd think it would fit in very well in the Mwangi Expanse, or even better in the Sodden Lands off the coast of the Eye of Abendego. That is if you don't mind adding rain to spice up the atmosphere!

Thanx! I like putting it closer to the Eye! So tempting!

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