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Psionics in Pathfinder


Pathfinder Campaign Setting General Discussion

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I was wondering if we would be learning about how psionics fit into Pathfinder, or if they're not there at all. I'd love to see a Pathfinder spin.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Tales Subscriber

I can't speak for Paizo staff, but I don't believe there's a lot of love for psionics w/ this crew. Which is a shame, b/c I'm a big fan. But you can't please everyone. Maybe they could commission a GM module w/ psionics in it--w/ applicable "magic" conversions for those who don't want to use the psionics parts--and see how it sells? Just an idea.

I recently ran the very fun "The Death of Lashimire" from Dungeon. It had a good psionics/magic conversion table. There's a sequel to this (12th level) adventure also in Dungeon, but I'll have to wait a few levels :)


Ben S might be correct... But I do know from the Tuesday Night Pathfinder Chats that they don't wish to exclude psionics utterly and completely.

The informal idea that has been kicked around by Erik Mona at the chats is that eventually they wish to do some stuff with the other planets in Golarion's shared solar system.

From there, they are thinking psionic beings might come.. with free standing portals somewhere on Golarion.

But, I'm not a Pazio employee, and I'm usre none of this is final or certain.. but that is what has been discussed with the regular fan base at the chats.


Watcher wrote:
Ben S might be correct... But I do know from the Tuesday Night Pathfinder Chats that they don't wish to exclude psionics utterly and completely.

The way psionics was dealt with in Dragonlance's d20 products by Sovereign Press/Margaret Weis Productions is that psionics was just left up to the DM. SP/MWP wouldn't address it either way, and would not be putting psionic content in their books. So the DM can decide if he wants to use it or not.

Watcher wrote:

The informal idea that has been kicked around by Erik Mona at the chats is that eventually they wish to do some stuff with the other planets in Golarion's shared solar system.

From there, they are thinking psionic beings might come.. with free standing portals somewhere on Golarion.

But, I'm not a Pazio employee, and I'm usre none of this is final or certain.. but that is what has been discussed with the regular fan base at the chats.

That's kinda cool. Thanks for the info.

Dark Archive Contributor

I shall continue my attempts to sneak in psionic mentions from time to time, just to let the psionics fans know that such a thing exists in the campaign setting. We'll see if any of them ever make it to print, though. ;D


I'll add another vote for psionics in Pathfinder. I've always been a big fan of them, more so than Vancian magic, and I'd be interested to see how they fit in the world.

If I had to implement them, I'd keep them in the domain of the DM for now. Introduce psionic monsters and effects that terrify the players rather than dumping a new set of options at their feet to play with.


Mike McArtor wrote:
I shall continue my attempts to sneak in psionic mentions from time to time, just to let the psionics fans know that such a thing exists in the campaign setting. We'll see if any of them ever make it to print, though. ;D

Hey boss, you do know that the only thing better than a gninja is a pgninja . .

Spoiler:
Yes, two letters are silent, so what.

Dark Archive Contributor

Gninjamatsu wrote:
Mike McArtor wrote:
I shall continue my attempts to sneak in psionic mentions from time to time, just to let the psionics fans know that such a thing exists in the campaign setting. We'll see if any of them ever make it to print, though. ;D

Hey boss, you do know that the only thing better than a gninja is a pgninja . .

** spoiler omitted **

Mmmm... pgninja...


Rest assured, there are psionics in my Golarion.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I told my players that they could use the SRD, and before I knew it there was a psion in my party.

Dark Archive Contributor

tbug wrote:
I told my players that they could use the SRD, and before I knew it there was a psion in my party.

Yeah. I <3 WotC for putting psionics in the SRD...

Dark Archive

Hmmmmm...I have no problem fully understanding psionics, and I like it. however, I do think that, since magic is already familiar to players, Psionics offers us a chance to introuce mysterious stuff that's more supernatural-seeming.

I certainly wouldnt mind having a single psionic character in a party, perhaps taking the place of the bard or sorceror. But, I still say that psionics should be rare.


Psionics! That would be so best!!

How about a "P" designation for GameMastery modules? Perhaps, in a "J" they could look for the "P". Now, that would be an "E" to remember. :D

Psionics! Need more.

Liberty's Edge

Here's how I used the psionic races;

Spoiler:

Once psionics was almost as common as magic, but as the Runelords rose to power, they viewed any power they did not control as a threat and they targeted anyone who manifested psionic powers.

The most powerfull manifesters were a tribe of Dwarves in the Mindspin mountains, but a combination of magical diseases and curse magic forced the dwarves to retreat into the Deep Earth and become the degernerate Duergar known today.

This attack did not go unobserved among the Human manifesters. A large group decided to flee to the Astral Plane for their safety and it is believed that they became the Githyanki and Githzerai races over the next 10,000 years.

The last group who tried to leave were attacked by agents of the Runelords and their gate malfunctioned and flung them to some Far off Realm. It is believed that they were changed by this Realm and became abominations beyond description.

The remaining psionic users were forced to retreat to a mountain monestary of a powerful Seer. When the Runelords made their move, they found all of the manifesters dead. Even the Runelords were puzzeled by what they found and the mystery of the deaths has remained for 10,000 years. But in the last few decades a possible answer hs appeared in the form of the Elan. No one knows exactly where they come from, they are normal humans untill their "awakening", after which they are Elan. Some belive that those ancient Psions attemped a form of Psionic Reincarnation and the Elan are the result of this power.

The insect races of Dromites and Thri Kreen are found to the far south and have little to do with most other races. Recently it was decided among the hives that they need to know more about these strange speaking animals to the north, so explorers and spies have been sent to these strange northern lands.

Half giants are similar to Ogrekin, as the result of crossbreeding with humans, but in their case, they have avoided the mutations and inbreeding of the Ogrekin. Many Half giants want nothing to do with thei giant kin and have fled to try to live among their human cousins.

The last two psionic races Maenads and Xephs are liiterally the children of the Runelords. The Maenad race was created by Alaznist, the Runelord of Wrath, and survived the fall of Bakrakham by becoming masters of the seas.
The atheletic and artistic Xephs are the children of Pride and their homeland, a dark forest in a deep rift was believed to be a sanctuary hold of Xanderghul


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Tales Subscriber
Dark Lurker of Psionics wrote:

Here's how I used the psionic races;

[spoiler]

Nice job integrating psionics w/ Golarion. I've been doing something similar for Greyhawk.


You can always put them into Minkai, where the monks come from. Ki and Psi are sisters, I'd say.

The same goes for Irory, the Perfect One. Perfect yourself to the point where your mind can impose its will onto reality itself. Become more perfect then reality itself. Break the Equation.


tbug wrote:
I told my players that they could use the SRD, and before I knew it there was a psion in my party.

Dangerous thing to say: Stuff like epic levels, rules for gods, and gestalt characters are in there as well ;-)

"I only used the SRD, you know. Anyway, I'm playing a 40th-level gestalt cloistered cleric/thug fighter deity."

Dedicated Voter 2013

I like psionics, and love how they were catered for in Eberron, but I don't want them on Golarion itself, the other planets hell yeah, even one of them mostly dedicated to the stuff, but not on Golarion, they don't seem to fit in my opinion.


Wow Dark Lurker. Thats awesome. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
KaeYoss wrote:

Dangerous thing to say: Stuff like epic levels, rules for gods, and gestalt characters are in there as well ;-)

"I only used the SRD, you know. Anyway, I'm playing a 40th-level gestalt cloistered cleric/thug fighter deity."

When we say SRD we mean the actual SRD, so at least I was protected from gestalt classes and cloistered clerics and the like. It's true that it includes epic levels and divine ranks, but nobody tried to pull a stunt like that.

I suppose it might help that we actually played a game once where the PCs were first level and each gained one divine rank. We called it the "Wussiest Gods Ever" campaign, and it was hugely fun. :)


Dark Lurker of Psionics wrote:

Here's how I used the psionic races;

[spoiler]

That's pretty solid. I've got my own write up somewhere on these boards, but I get around part of the races by not allowing races with a level adjustment. This leaves just Elan, Maenad and Xephs, which are, imo, the easiest to integrate in to the AP.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

thanks Dark.


Before this thread gets lost into archives, I HAVE to jump in. I am always THRILLED to see any mention of including psionics. I was delighted to see psionic write-ups used in the rpg superstar contest, and I get shivers of joygasm anytime anyone in Paizo mentions that psionics will make it's debut with the inclusion of one of the planets. As mentioned previously, the staff in general mentioned the lack of psionic support stemmed from their lack of love for it, and that, in general, it's not welcome at some tables.

Since psionics kept my interest with D&D, and was the single factor in rekindling my interest with it after a decade of not playing the game, my sole initial hesitance in starting Pathfinder was that I knew psionics would not be included in the first AP. Even though I've come to relish Pathfinder immensely, I'll always hunger for psionic support.

When I can, during the various installments, I've had to re-write creatures as psionic, and I'm looking forward to the moment when I won't have to.

Mike McArtor wrote:
I shall continue my attempts to sneak in psionic mentions from time to time, just to let the psionics fans know that such a thing exists in the campaign setting. We'll see if any of them ever make it to print, though. ;D

HUZZAH!!! May the Force be with you!


DarkArt wrote:


HUZZAH!!! May the Force be with you!

You kineticists are so brash. Always pushing people around, wasting their gift with pyrtechnics and childish pranks.

Better go and mess with people's heads }>


Mike McArtor wrote:
I shall continue my attempts to sneak in psionic mentions from time to time, just to let the psionics fans know that such a thing exists in the campaign setting. We'll see if any of them ever make it to print, though. ;D

Please do press on, good man!


I have to cast my vote for a Psionic PF here also. I have been a psionic fan since 1st ed. Coming from the old school, I can vouch for the lack of psionic "love" at most tables and official content. Especially, prior to Eberron. Which Rocks! My favorite incarnation of psionics is 3.5 (Boo to 4th Ed, oops sorry, save that for another thread!). For those of you who like including psionics in your campaigns, Malhavoc Press's Mindscapes, Beast of the ID,and Hyperconsciousness, are great products. They fully support psionics with a full integrated campaign world, bestiary, and new crunch. Of course, I'm with everyone on seeing some new psionic game mastery modules as well. I thought the RPG Superstar writers did an excellent job with their psionic entries and hope that maybe this will change the idea of psionic content with some of the judges and "Greater Powers" at Paizo. Until then, I'll just do what psionic lovers have always done..........Manifest it from my own imagination!

Dark Archive Contributor

Wolfknight wrote:
I have to cast my vote for a Psionic PF here also. I have been a psionic fan since 1st ed. Coming from the old school, I can vouch for the lack of psionic "love" at most tables and official content. Especially, prior to Eberron. Which Rocks! My favorite incarnation of psionics is 3.5 (Boo to 4th Ed, oops sorry, save that for another thread!). For those of you who like including psionics in your campaigns, Malhavoc Press's Mindscapes, Beast of the ID,and Hyperconsciousness, are great products. They fully support psionics with a full integrated campaign world, bestiary, and new crunch. Of course, I'm with everyone on seeing some new psionic game mastery modules as well. I thought the RPG Superstar writers did an excellent job with their psionic entries and hope that maybe this will change the idea of psionic content with some of the judges and "Greater Powers" at Paizo. Until then, I'll just do what psionic lovers have always done..........Manifest it from my own imagination!

An entire PF adventure path devoted to psionics is not going to happen. We'll continue to look for a way of putting out something psionic-related that won't kill our bottom line, though. :)


I really just want the occasional psionic villain or monster.


Optimally Paizo would some how wind up with the rights to Darksun, and produce an adventure path based there. Short of that, yeah, I think introducing an occassional psionic beasty/NPC in pathfinder would be the best way to go. With psionic-to-magic conversion notes of course, you know...for the weirdos...


Fraust wrote:
Optimally Paizo would some how wind up with the rights to Darksun, and produce an adventure path based there. Short of that, yeah, I think introducing an occassional psionic beasty/NPC in pathfinder would be the best way to go. With psionic-to-magic conversion notes of course, you know...for the weirdos...

There is already a group that does Darksun at Athas.org. If your into Darksun I'd check them out and maybe get involved with what they are doing.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013

Mike McArtor wrote:
An entire PF adventure path devoted to psionics is not going to happen. We'll continue to look for a way of putting out something psionic-related that won't kill our bottom line, though. :)

Yikes, an entire Psionic AP would not be my cup of tea (and wouldn't be for alooooot of other folks I'm guessing.)

But, I would like to see (**Very Sparingly**) the occasional use of psionics in Golarion.

With all the Cthulu references that have already slipped in, one of the freaky monsters That Should Not Be that somehow slip into our reality could have psionic powers.

Some tear in the fabric of reality produces an alien menace from some dark, twisted Far Realm. It exhibits magic unlike anything anyone has ever seen or heard of before. One singular monster in an entire 6 part AP with psionic powers might be a good way to shake things up, and even the psionic haters out there couldn't really complain. (As long as enough information was printed so that anyone could run the monster effectively and comfortably, regardless of their comfort level with psionics.)

And this is coming from a guy that doesn't really like psionics at all. I just think it would be a fresh twist, and I would love to be able to stare at an overconfident player and tell them that dispel magic _simply_does_not_work_.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

*Manifests thread resurrection.*

I was wondering about the disciplines and their relationship to the specialty schools of magic. If "Karzoug the Twice-Gestalted" or whatever we want to call him were a Gestalt, I'd love to see the other side as full on Psion.... opening the question: which discipline best matches the Transmutation school? Psychokinesis?


Lord Zeb wrote:

*Manifests thread resurrection.*

I was wondering about the disciplines and their relationship to the specialty schools of magic. If "Karzoug the Twice-Gestalted" or whatever we want to call him were a Gestalt, I'd love to see the other side as full on Psion.... opening the question: which discipline best matches the Transmutation school? Psychokinesis?

Well..the mapping is pretty rough since there are only 6 Disciplines, compared to the 7 schools of sin magic. I'd guess Metacreativity, but even then, the fit is still pretty rough, as there are some Psychometabolism powers that are similar to spells from the Transmutation school. Psychokinesis aligns pretty well with Wrath/Evocation.

I do have a psion in my group, which I encouraged. I'll probably alter some of the Mythos-type NPCs and Monsters, and include more psionics in those encounters.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber
F33b wrote:


Well..the mapping is pretty rough since there are only 6 Disciplines, compared to the 7 schools of sin magic. I'd guess Metacreativity, but even then, the fit is still pretty rough, as there are some Psychometabolism powers that are similar to spells from the Transmutation school.

I do have a psion in my group, which I encouraged. I'll probably alter some of the Mythos-type NPCs and Monsters, and include more psionics in those encounters.

Yeah, and the fact that so many are similar to Conjuration, LOL. What flavor Psion do you have in your group?


Personally, I've always thought that psionics was just a modern name for magic. As such, it doesn't make sense to me why we need two systems of magic.


Windbit wrote:


Personally, I've always thought that psionics was just a modern name for magic. As such, it doesn't make sense to me why we need two systems of magic.

Fun?

*****************

To Mike McArtor, Lord of Continuity! (so indirectly dubbed by the Editor-in-Chief):

I wouldn't expect a pisonic AP. I'll be realistic.

Here's what would be cool that I think you could do for us...

Ideas on where Psionic PCs might come from. Then leave the rest to us. If we want psionic situations we can tailor them or craft them ourselves.

James has indicated that Intellect Devourers have a presence in the Darklands (though will not be pushed hard, if at all, in Second Darkness). We also have the Aboleth's deep under sea, and psionic beings potentially from the other planets.

If you give us a head start and tell us where Psionic PCs might be logically introduced in the game, that gives enterprising GMs the start in order to develop it from there. Then maybe we get some kickass player based on ideas on these community wikis you've been encouraging.


Windbit wrote:


Personally, I've always thought that psionics was just a modern name for magic. As such, it doesn't make sense to me why we need two systems of magic.

I understand where your coming from but I'll note that both systems have something of a distinct feel. Psionics supports a kind of innate talent view of magic very well. The theme where magic just runs in your blood. The Vancian system tends to feel much more like it ought to be a learned discipline. The two systems can compliment each other very well.

Dark Archive Contributor

Heyas Watcher!

The campaign setting hardcover is currently slated to have an entire spread dedicated to psionics.

If you can't wait that long, I could be convinced to drop hints for a certain price. ;)


Mike McArtor wrote:

Heyas Watcher!

The campaign setting hardcover is currently slated to have an entire spread dedicated to psionics.

If you can't wait that long, I could be convinced to drop hints for a certain price. ;)

You're my buddy!

Did you know how I found out the Guide to Korvosa was in the warehouse before it was ever announced? Lol.. I saw an irishninja celebrating! (awesome book, I can't say enough)

Enough sucking up...

Psionics: No, I can wait, that's really friggan cool to hear though, about the Campaign Setting having a psionic spread. Consider me happy.

On a side note, I had a daydream this morning. I wanted to write my own AP just for fun, and make it set in Golarion.

I imagined it

  • Set underwater
  • Would have psionics as an integral plot point
  • Be only levels 1 to 12, but open to individual expansion
  • Thus be everything that people would want, but likely not to get soon

I'd make it legal with all the correct trademark references and licensing statements, and give it away. Be a sort of reference / resume starter.

I just don't know if I'm that ambitious. Yet.


Mike McArtor wrote:

Heyas Watcher!

The campaign setting hardcover is currently slated to have an entire spread dedicated to psionics.

If you can't wait that long, I could be convinced to drop hints for a certain price. ;)

Would warm sake suffice?

I think that's the greatest bit of news I've heard all year!!!!!

I would also realistically assume a strictly psionic AP/gamemastery module would be out of the question just as much as a strictly any class would be out. A setting where everyone is a wizard or a monk or a rogue would be bizarre in a setting where variety is more expected from the fan base. Part of the enjoyment I have regarding psionics surrounds their integration with the other tradional classes.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Fraust wrote:
Optimally Paizo would some how wind up with the rights to Darksun, and produce an adventure path based there. Short of that, yeah, I think introducing an occassional psionic beasty/NPC in pathfinder would be the best way to go. With psionic-to-magic conversion notes of course, you know...for the weirdos...
There is already a group that does Darksun at Athas.org. If your into Darksun I'd check them out and maybe get involved with what they are doing.

I've checked out the Dark Sun site. I enjoy much of what it has to offer, and I relish the idea of putting in a Dark Sun game here and there, but has anyone gotten around the flavor of the Defiler with the 3.5 system? I've come across the use of the Sorcerer, but I was curious if anyone discovered another way. So, ironically, it's the defiler wizard that keeps me from really going for this despite my lust for psionics.

Spoiler to hide further thread distraction off main topic

Spoiler:
For those that are unfamiliar with 2nd ed Dark Sun defilers, every class had their own experience advancement table, and the Defiling Wizard advanced much quicker in class levels than the preserver wizard who used the regular table as listed in the player's guide for wizards.
I was thinking one solution might be to either create an experience table just for defilers that make them level up faster in 3.5 than the other classes, or to give defilers access to all metamagic feats for free as appropriate as they level up.


Watcher wrote:
Mike McArtor wrote:

Heyas Watcher!

The campaign setting hardcover is currently slated to have an entire spread dedicated to psionics.

If you can't wait that long, I could be convinced to drop hints for a certain price. ;)

Psionics: No, I can wait...

Well I CAN'T wait!

So, Mike, I got some vegan doughnuts and a chaser of Jameson here. Am I about there or do I need to sweeten the pot? :D

Liberty's Edge Marathon Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Big things that would help:

For every monster that has an SR, add a PR (it should be different than SR, I hate the methodology of using the same number for either, if you do that there's no point to making Psionics anything more than a cooler Sorceror)

Sneak in some psionic baddies every once in a while. Wilders are GREAT enemies.


Coridan wrote:

Big things that would help:

For every monster that has an SR, add a PR (it should be different than SR, I hate the methodology of using the same number for either, if you do that there's no point to making Psionics anything more than a cooler Sorceror)

Sneak in some psionic baddies every once in a while. Wilders are GREAT enemies.

Gonna vote against this one. If nothing else it makes it necessary to have a whole different number for every monster. I'd rather not have to track another number and am happy with the play balance inherit in the current system. If its annoying at ones own table I'd house rule it. Maybe have it go up or down based on create type.

Dark Archive Contributor

Spoiler:

Hints:
Vudra
Castrovel


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

I found this lurking the SRD while perusing during lunch:

SRD wrote:

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, clairsentience powers are equivalent to powers of the divination school (thus, creatures immune to divination spells are also immune to clairsentience powers).

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, metacreativity powers are equivalent to powers of the conjuration school (thus, creatures immune to conjuration spells are also immune to metacreativity powers).

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, psychokinesis powers are equivalent to powers of the evocation school (thus, creatures immune to evocation spells are also immune to psychokinesis powers).

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, psychometabolism powers are equivalent to powers of the transmutation school (thus, creatures immune to transmutation spells are also immune to psychometabolism powers).

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, psychoportation powers do not have an equivalent school.

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, telepathy powers are equivalent to powers of the enchantment school (thus, creatures resistant to enchantment spells are equally resistant to telepathy powers).

I'm sooo looking forward to the CS!!! It's gonna rock!


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lord Zeb wrote:

I found this lurking the SRD while perusing during lunch:

SRD wrote:

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, clairsentience powers are equivalent to powers of the divination school (thus, creatures immune to divination spells are also immune to clairsentience powers).

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, metacreativity powers are equivalent to powers of the conjuration school (thus, creatures immune to conjuration spells are also immune to metacreativity powers).

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, psychokinesis powers are equivalent to powers of the evocation school (thus, creatures immune to evocation spells are also immune to psychokinesis powers).

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, psychometabolism powers are equivalent to powers of the transmutation school (thus, creatures immune to transmutation spells are also immune to psychometabolism powers).

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, psychoportation powers do not have an equivalent school.

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, telepathy powers are equivalent to powers of the enchantment school (thus, creatures resistant to enchantment spells are equally resistant to telepathy powers).

I'm sooo looking forward to the CS!!! It's gonna rock!

Where can i find a complete copy of the SRD?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

I'm not interested in seeing Psionics in my Pathfinder. My game is core only (PHB, DMG, MM). Whilst I can throw a few unknown monsters at them, and leave some new magic items lying about, I don't think it would be fair to have a new npc-only style of magic in the game.

And i've no desire to buy an extra WotC book so that I can use all of this Paizo stuff i'm buying.

and i don't like psionics anyway...

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Tales Subscriber
Joey Virtue wrote:
Where can i find a complete copy of the SRD?

d20srd - for a linkified version

wizards originals

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