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If I Was a Woman, I'd Be Annoyed or Insulted


D&D 4th Edition (and Beyond)

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Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
magdalena thiriet wrote:
DMcCoy1693 wrote:
magdalena thiriet wrote:
And without bards and druids, there are always sorceresses, rogues and barbarians :)
Of these, Rogue is the only one confirmed to be in the PHB. Infact I believe that all the rest are confirmed to not be in the PHB.
Maan, that 4th edition sucks.

I'm guessing Shelly already has a 4E version of her book ready to address this - Confessions of a part-time Warlock?

(I hope no-one has beaten me to the punchline?)


Lilith I borrowed part of your quote for a thread over on the RPG.net

I just felt it fit.
:)


Aberzombie wrote:
I noticed these questions this morning. Lilith, Dungeon Grrrl, Tegan: What do you gals think?

Since my opinion was explicitly asked, I'll chime in here.

Nope, nothing insulting there.

You can't talk about any group without making some assumptions. Minorities in any segment tend to feel such assumptions harm them more because they have less power to change or rebuke those assumptions. I think that is probably even true. Girls are a minority in gaming, so we tend to look at any conversation about girls in gaming with a jaundiced eye.

Chris mentioned two things, that they have a book out (I haven't read it, but as long as it was written by a woman that games I don't care WHAT it says, her point of view is certainly more important than the man who just talked about the book, and I don't blame him if she doesn't get *me* as an individual), and that he saw women gaming and even running a game.

That's a positive message. Women are gaming, and he saw no reason to jump in and stop it. Chris' attitude is that women can game if they want to, and I'm fine with that. He never suggested those gaming women needed to be coddled, guided, monitored, or treated differently in any way.

The woman was a bit off, but who cares? She's a little off, so are a lot of gamers. I'm just glad there's a woman working for WotC who is willing to speak on the subject.

If I believed the division of women gamers to me was 50/50 I'd be offended at the idea we needed any special attention. It obviously isn't which suggests that SOMETHING prevents us from getting into gaming as often as men. WotC's response to that seems to be to give one woman a shot to convince her sister's to join, and note a lot of us already have. Nothing that offends me there.

I *have* had gamers offend me. I've been told I can only play a whore, that I should dress more provocatively in return for being allowed to play, and that it is assumed my character has sex with any male character whenever the male character wants, and that I don't even need to be consulted for this to happen. I have had characters gang-raped by paladins, been forbidden to play anything but a servant or a witch for the sake of "realism," and even been informed if I want to cast a spell I needed to act it out, which included stripping off some clothes. A DM once told me if I didn't grant him sexual service, my favorite character was going to be killed.

At one time when I was younger and a lot more confused, I let people push me around like this. Now, I never allow it and know just how abusive such efforts were. Much of it was simple, evil lust on the part of neanderthal gamer grunts. Some of it was a real belief that girls shouldn't (or couldn't) game, or not like boys do. It was all on a totally different level than anything I have seen from WotC, and thus their perhaps clumsy efforts to actually help the situation AT ALL does nothing to offend me.

I am no longer a big fan of WotC, but on this they get a pass from me.

And no, Blue Rose did not offend me. Why would it?

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dungeon Grrrl wrote:


I *have* had gamers offend me. I've been told I...

Wow. I think I've said it before, but you have played with some real f@#@ed up a&~*+++s, whom I would be ashamed to think of as fellow gamers.

I'm glad you found a better crew to play with.


Personally, I find it sadly ironic that the title includes a class that 4th edition won't initially support. My wife has a copy of Confessions Of A Part Time Sorceress, my wife plays a sorceress, and that's yet another reason not to play 4th edition.

"Oh, here honey... I got you this book because you are a woman, you also play a sorceress, but in six months you will still be a woman, and a gamer, but won't be able to play a sorceress... well, not yet for awhile anyways."

Kinda stupid ain't it? To release the book in the latter part of last year only to have the actual class tagged on to the book quickly disappear....


Mothman wrote:
Dungeon Grrrl wrote:


I *have* had gamers offend me. I've been told I...

Wow. I think I've said it before, but you have played with some real f*~#ed up a%%%~*#s, whom I would be ashamed to think of as fellow gamers.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid there is no shortage. A few years ago, this guy in a group my girlfriend was friends with asked if she wanted to do some RPG. She said yes and started looking at possibilities class-wise, and he said, "Oh, we've got an existing storyline going on, so you would be playing the part of this slave girl."

She didn't take him up on the offer.


Wow, Dungeon grrrl. The crud you have put up with is so wrong, on so many levels, that it breaks my heart.

I'm glad to see that you are made of tougher stuff than they ever gave you credit for.


That was awesome swirler. :P


That's a great thread, swirler.

Man-gamer.

lol


Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
I *have* had gamers offend me. I've been told...

I don't want to belittle your experiences too much...

But you just made me proud to be an a#!&#@$.

And to think, I used to be ashamed for not being civil enough.


Disenchanter wrote:
Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
I *have* had gamers offend me. I've been told...
I don't want to belittle your experiences too much...

No worries there. As far as impact in my real life goes, you're words spoken by a tiny plastic head. I grant you no power, and thus you cant belittle me in my world, no matter what you think you've done in yours.

And there are some right asses I am very fond of. They just don't do crud like I spoke about.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:

No worries there. As far as impact in my real life goes, you're words spoken by a tiny plastic head. I grant you no power, and thus you cant belittle me in my world, no matter what you think you've done in yours.

That line made me laugh. "Incoming message from the Tiny Plastic Head."

Glad you're made of sterner stuff DG. Ironically I've played female characters who were the 'ex-slave girl turned X' Usually they were my more interesting characters.

One of the interesting aspects of th Nether Scrolls to me was the lead character was a woman (little more than a girl, was my impression) who was the daughter of slave traders, and who used stuff tied into that background.


Matthew Morris wrote:

Glad you're made of sterner stuff DG. Ironically I've played female characters who were the 'ex-slave girl turned X' Usually they were my more interesting characters.

It's all about choices. I have enjoyed playing slave girl, prostitute, stripper named Bambi and other character concepts like that, they have been fun and interesting (and more often than not played seriously...well, not the stripper).

But they are balanced out with characters who were not slave girls, prostitutes or strippers named Bambi.

And I have never encountered players quite as scum as those DG describes, even if there have been some less pleasant situations, especially when we all were younger.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Trey wrote:
Unfortunately, I'm afraid there is no shortage. A few years ago, this guy in a group my girlfriend was friends with asked if she wanted to do some RPG. She said yes and started looking at possibilities class-wise, and he said, "Oh, we've got an existing storyline going on, so you would be playing the part of this slave girl."

"...and you have to turn up to the sessions in this Princess Leia Jabba's Palace outfit..."

"...and serve us drinks..."

Trey wrote:
She didn't take him up on the offer.

Good.

I suppose it might be OK if the whole party were escaped slaves, taking the opportunity to stick it to the Evil Empire, as in the Dark Sun setting, but I guess that wasn't the intent...?


Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
No worries there. As far as impact in my real life goes, you're words spoken by a tiny plastic head. I grant you no power, and thus you cant belittle me in my world, no matter what you think you've done in yours.

I can respect your attitude. But I think you might have misunderstood me. It would be easy to do, as I see I left out a few key phrases in my post last night.

I was trying to convey those you referred make me look to be a saint in comparison.

Now, if you got that and just wanted to share you outlook anyway, I'm sorry I didn't grasp that from your post.


Lilith wrote:
That was awesome swirler. :P

heh. How could I NOT share your quote?

:D
Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
I have had characters gang-raped by paladins

wow... and I thought it was bad when a guy in my game playing a paladin stole a horse. Just goes back to people have a screwed up idea what paladin means.

on the subject of weird male players and their attitudes towards women I posted a thread about that over at Dumpshock


DG, I'm really glad you've stuck with the hobby despite the real jerks out there. I had heard one or two horror stories along this line before. Frankly, I'm awed by your ability to get past it all. I think you make a fine gamer and a good example to your female peers who might like to play the game. Let's hope they don't face this sort of intolerable idiocy in the future.

Contributor

varianor wrote:
DG, I'm really glad you've stuck with the hobby despite the real jerks out there.

Wow, DG, you've really encountered some creeps! I started gaming in the early 1980's (my older brother got me into gaming), and I've only encountered one person who was like that--a creepy forty-something GM guy who paid way too much attention to the 13-year-old girl (me) at the gaming table.

At any rate, on the question to Wizards about female gamers, I don't find the question or their answers insulting. That being said, I think most of us femailes prefer not to be singled out as being special because we are female and gaming. We just want to game and not be made a fuss over or limited in any manner that the other players aren't.

As long as Wizards doesn't do anything to specifically leave me out, then they are doing an ok job and the question is really irrelevant--this hobby just doesn't appeal to a lot of women.

Personally, it has been great to see the numbers of women gamers growing at the conventions and playing at gaming stores. And many of my male friends with daughters are bringing them into gaming, so there will be more of into the hobby in time. At some point, I don't think it will be as much of an oddity and will not be brought up in such questions.

And, of course, more will join the ranks of the game writers--here's a list of them (us) someone is keeping: http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/theory/gender/womenauthors.html

Taldor

You know what, I started to write a long post to this using my dear wife as a reference. I think instead I'll keep it short and sweet. I've read some of that book, and my wife wouldn't like it. Maybe it is meant for a younger crowd (less than mid-twenties?), because it is as previously described: chick-lit. I think a good girl gamer's experience can be read in an old issue of Dragon, wherein a barbarian gets tired of her party of gnomes over-analyzing every room. The issue number escapes me, but perhaps someone else remembers this one.
That article gives a point of view with more eloquence and veracity than I could offer.

P.S., thank you E.G.G. for expanding my vocabulary.


It is because of the type of people that are referred to here that I am reluctant to get back into face-to-face gaming. (That and a complete lack of free time.) I don't want to be around some misanthrope hitting on the women or girls in the room in that way or just who behaves in a bizarre manner. There is ample opportunity for that at work.

Unfortunately, the ranks of such people are above the norm in DnD and the game gives some of them an outlet for behavior that they must suppress other times.


ugg
someone started a "whining about sexism in rpg art" over on RPG.net

anyone reasonable want to go and help bring some sense into it?


Sorry swirler. I can't handle sexism discussions. Too many hypocrisies.


Disenchanter wrote:
Sorry swirler. I can't handle sexism discussions. Too many hypocrisies.

I understand. I just have trouble ignoring idiots. lol

I guess I'm a good target for trolls.


Snorter wrote:
Trey wrote:
Unfortunately, I'm afraid there is no shortage. A few years ago, this guy in a group my girlfriend was friends with asked if she wanted to do some RPG. She said yes and started looking at possibilities class-wise, and he said, "Oh, we've got an existing storyline going on, so you would be playing the part of this slave girl."

"...and you have to turn up to the sessions in this Princess Leia Jabba's Palace outfit..."

"...and serve us drinks..."

Trey wrote:
She didn't take him up on the offer.

Good.

I suppose it might be OK if the whole party were escaped slaves, taking the opportunity to stick it to the Evil Empire, as in the Dark Sun setting, but I guess that wasn't the intent...?

You guessed right. :-P

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Vendle wrote:

I think a good girl gamer's experience can be read in an old issue of Dragon, wherein a barbarian gets tired of her party of gnomes over-analyzing every room. The issue number escapes me, but perhaps someone else remembers this one.

That article gives a point of view with more eloquence and veracity than I could offer.

There was a letter from Tracy Hickman about being in a dungeon full of riddles and puzzles, and being bored stupid after hours of forensic examination of every square inch. The character just said "To Hell with it. Let's smash the dungeon up. If the DM wants us to progress, he'll find a way to give one of us a flash of inspiration".

This prompted a wave of indignation from readers who like that sort of boring 'riddle-me-ree, riddle-me-ree; I have questions, one, two, three' crap.

Was that the one you meant?
If so, just fyi Tracy Hickman is a bloke (though it took me a few years to find out).


swirler wrote:

ugg

someone started a "whining about sexism in rpg art" over on RPG.net

anyone reasonable want to go and help bring some sense into it?

...by the time I came across the argument that if women wear bikinis in the real world, any pictures of women in bikinis in RPG products cannot be sexist...you are on your own. Logic like that cannot be discussed.


magdalena thiriet wrote:


...by the time I came across the argument that if women wear bikinis in the real world, any pictures of women in bikinis in RPG products cannot be sexist...you are on your own. Logic like that cannot be discussed.

yeah i gave up

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber

To the original topic at hand:
Previously I just thought, that we D&D players were "nerds".

But if the experiences described above are representative, it's astonishing that there are still so many female gamers in this hobby.

I hope that any DM behaving that way is unmistakenly made clear by all of his players how much "power" he helds after they leave.

Unfortunately D&D is quite appealing to people with low egos and a craving for recognition
[edited before anyone complains: ...which doesn't mean that I think you, dear reader, to belong to this category :p].

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

3 things on this front.

My homegame has traditionally had 50% women in it. In college I ran tables that were more gals than guys. It wasn't until I got out playing D&D at conventions that I realized gals didn't play that much. I met my wife through D&D and we have always played together.

The videos are all lumped together in my mind as part of a pitiful and poorly designed marketing strategy. It is representitive of the slapshot and unfocused message being sent to us.

My wife did not find the videos insulting. She found them low quality and insipid. She just sort of rolled her eyes and said this says more about the player base and the designers than it does about female gamers in general.


Set wrote:
Eh, they're big girls, if they want to get offended, they can do so without a big strong man to get all offended on their behalf. Patriarchy is dead.

That's why women still make less money than a Man for the same job? No, the patriarchy is alive and well.

The only female gamer I've played with who played a Bard was into girls, if yanno what I mean.

The word you are looking for is Lesbian. Try it out. It's Ok, they use it on CNN now.


bubbagump wrote:


Why is it that women have to be singled out at all?

Because it's a knee jerk reaction to realizing that RPG's as a whole have ignored or alienated women for the last 30 yrs. And now Hasbro has realized that maybe we should actually try marketing to the OTHER HALF OF THE POPULATION! But they're doing it in this clumsy, sterotype heavy style that is both offensive and kind of pathetic.


The majority of my players since I got out of high school have been women. At any given time the women out number men by about 2 to 1. The games that I run are very story driven with heavy Roleplay. When I've played with mostly men, the game quickly turns to hack and slash. What I think is that there really are more women playing than WoTC and Hasbro know. I just don't think they're the ones going to the game shops to buy stuff because of the way some male gamers act. I remember walking into our local gaming shop with my wife (then girlfriend) and another female friend who played, and the mouth breathers that hung out at the store were like "WOOMAN!" I was waiting for them to start pounding their chests and throwing poo. I wish that I could say this was an isolated experience, but it has happened at any game store that has a playing area for gamers to hang out. It has gotten a little better over the years, but not much.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
magdalena thiriet wrote:


It's all about choices. I have enjoyed playing slave girl, prostitute, stripper named Bambi and other character concepts like that,...
But they are balanced out with characters who were not slave girls, prostitutes or strippers named Bambi....

That's the key difference. I also play a wide range of characters, races, backgrounds, etc. And yes, a couple of them are heavy on the sex appeal as part of their abilities and backgrounds (one's a succubus and another is a water nereid (sp?... didn't bother to look it up). I also play straight bruisers and everything in between.

But if any DM handed me the concept of a slave girl, seductress, tavern wench or PC sheet of any other stereotype (which I may well have picked on my own anyway) and TOLD me that I HAD to play them that way simply because I was the double X at the table, I'd rip up the sheets and shove them down their throat.

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Blackdragon wrote:
bubbagump wrote:


Why is it that women have to be singled out at all?
Because it's a knee jerk reaction to realizing that RPG's as a whole have ignored or alienated women for the last 30 yrs. And now Hasbro has realized that maybe we should actually try marketing to the OTHER HALF OF THE POPULATION! But they're doing it in this clumsy, sterotype heavy style that is both offensive and kind of pathetic.

Word

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
magdalena thiriet wrote:
swirler wrote:

ugg

someone started a "whining about sexism in rpg art" over on RPG.net

anyone reasonable want to go and help bring some sense into it?

...by the time I came across the argument that if women wear bikinis in the real world, any pictures of women in bikinis in RPG products cannot be sexist...you are on your own. Logic like that cannot be discussed.

Wow. I have no ammo for this one. Just makes me want to scream a bit.


Disenchanter wrote:
Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
No worries there. As far as impact in my real life goes, you're words spoken by a tiny plastic head. I grant you no power, and thus you cant belittle me in my world, no matter what you think you've done in yours.

I can respect your attitude. But I think you might have misunderstood me. It would be easy to do, as I see I left out a few key phrases in my post last night.

I was trying to convey those you referred make me look to be a saint in comparison.

Ah.

Yep, I misunderstood. Sorry about that. :D

However, I think the general point (sticks and stone may break my bones, but bad marketing cannot hurt me), is still something I am glad I said.

Contributor

The Last Rogue wrote:
Perkins mentions he believes that there are female gamers, and that WoTC has made at least one attempt to reach out to more (via Confessions)

Heh heh, sorry, that amused me. "Perkins believes there are female gamers" sounds like it could be the title of a Weekly World News Headline.

I wasn't offended, nor was I overly interested in the comments.

Things Paizo has done to make me feel included:

1. Included me.

It's not that hard. They listen to me, buy some of my articles, reject others, kill my characters sometimes, whatever. In short, they treat me like everyone else. Then again, I don't think women and men are all that different, and that is a matter for strenuous debate.

I think I wrote a letter to Dragon once where I was all angry about how women are portrayed in gaming, but I can't remember why I was angry or what I said. But they did publish it! It was the issue with Dixie looking into a mirror of opposition on the cover.

That made me remember it was something about forestry or logging or something...how odd.

-Amber S., she of the poor memory


DMcCoy1693 wrote:
Thammuz wrote:
Or how about wondering what they need to do to improve DnD interest amongst the homosexual community?
I believe Wizards just leaves that to White Wolf. WW's had homosexuals in their games since like day 1. And they've been serious characters, not the token gay that does the hand thing and is overconcered with decorating. I've known more then a few homosexual RPG players that stick with WW games since they feel "welcome" there.

Yeah but since WW nuked the oWoD I know a lot us like to play D&D. Which is why we stick to Paizo :) they do a much better job of making us feel welcome (with our double income no kids).

If WotC saw our gaming collection they might change their minds about going after the gaymers.


Amber Scott wrote:
I don't think women and men are all that different, and that is a matter for strenuous debate.

Ehh... I don't think it is all that strenuous. It depends on how you wish to qualify that statement, if at all.

My only complaint is when certain professions have to lower their standards to allow more women to be hired. I know I was appalled to hear that firefighters had to lower their admission standards to allow more women firefighters...

To me, it doesn't matter what gender you are. If you can't do the job, you shouldn't do it.

But I have strayed so far off topic...

Contributor

The question is, were the firefighter standards unreasonably high in the first place in order to exclude women? It's a matter for strenuous debate merely because it's a passionate subject that riles people up. So I'll just stop talking now. :)

-Amber S.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Last Rogue wrote:
The NFL is also a predominantly male hobby, yet I found no examples of them trying to reach a female audience . . .so instead of bashing WoTC for making an attempt (however, akward it may be) shouldn't we be a bit happy they are at least trying to reach that decidely small faction of their customer base?

Wanted to respond to this little bit. Being a girl and a fan of the NFL, the NFL does reach out to women. Granted it is mostly in the cities that have teams and I am not sure all the teams do it. But I know most of them with the help of the NFL have workshops and it's free for women and only women to attend. It teaches the basics of football, explains the game and then they answer any and all questions. They do a good job with it actually from what I have heard and the one I attended.

plus coaches and players of the local team attend as well, which is kinda nice to meet them. i know a lot of guys would dress in drag for the chance to meet and talk to some of the players... which just makes me giggle.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Now to comment on the topic. No i wasn't offended by it. I am glad they want to attract more women into gaming. i think they are going about it in a stupid manner, but I won't fault them for the effort.

I think a big reason White Wolf did so well with women and others. Is they made well done interesting NPC's that where strong in their own way that you could relate to or want to play.

In DnD to often the NPC's are bland, and you could change image and name to a males and wouldn't notice a difference. Or they revolve around seduction and sexuality to the point of being overly blantent. Neither of these is bad, but when that is about all their is. It doesn't help.


Amber Scott wrote:
The question is, were the firefighter standards unreasonably high in the first place in order to exclude women?

*Sound of a die rolling*

Damn. Failed my Will save. Have to respond.

I don't think so. The one that sticks out in my mind ix that the "fireman's carry" is no longer required. You are allowed to drag a victim out by their ankle.

A couple of female firefighters were annoyed at the reduced requirement too. ;-)

EDIT:: In trying to find something to support my claim, it seems the standards vary from location to location...

But I did find the following from this article.

"" wrote:

In fact, some firefighters say Bamattre quietly rolled back strict physical requirements, just like Manning, implementing a secret "no fail" policy to pass women who plainly could not heft chain saws up ladders or run with heavy hoses, or who had other physical deficiencies. In the almost entirely male yet multiracial force, firefighters were furious that academy rejects were getting through, and many questioned whether Bamattre was jeopardizing firefighters and the public.

Bamattre says that charge is just plain untrue, telling the Weekly: "The physical standards have never been lowered to bring in women." He says the standards in fact were and are being raised, and that creating a double standard "is not something I ever would have stood for." (LAFD Battalion Chief Richard Rideout refused to discuss whether there was a no-fail policy for women, adding cryptically, "It doesn't happen anymore. Everything was revamped" when Chief Barry took over.)

But for years, nobody questioned the underlying assumptions pushed by the City Council and the city Fire Commission: that women wanted to be firefighters, that women were kept out, and that women had special skills needed on fire lines, just as female cops brought special skills to their jobs. If Bamattre was jettisoning standards and practicing the equivalent of grade inflation in order to slip women into fire stations, the thinking was that the ends justified the means.

"It is a political-correctness issue, more than one [that asks] whether it makes good sense or not," says Riordan, chatting by phone during a ski trip to Whistler Mountain in British Columbia. "But that is a fact of life."

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Chris' attitude is that women can game if they want to, and I'm fine with that. He never suggested those gaming women needed to be coddled, guided, monitored, or treated differently in any way.

Dungeon Grrrl is spot-on here about Chris's attitude, which has always been mirrored at WotC among the role-playing games personnel. In my eight years there, I played D&D with at least 100 female employees of all ages and backgrounds. Whether or not they started as gamers, a great many of them became ambassadors for RPGs.

On a side note, I found Dungeon Grrrl's statement "As far as impact in my real life goes, you're words spoken by a tiny plastic head" to be the single most awesome words I've ever read on a message board. In fact, I will now go write a casino game for Pathfinder #13 based on this comment, which I will dedicate to her so that she won't crush me like that.

Mike


My gaming group consists of 4 women and 3 men (me included).

In my GH campaign, the 4 women played:

A fighter
A ranger
A Fighter
A ranger

The men played:

A wizard
A cleric/barbarian

In my friend's GH campaign, the women play:

A shadowdancer who might as well be an assassin
A ranger/sorceress that fires orbs of acid around like Rambo in a Vietcong POW camp
A sorceress that could put a M109 howitzer out of business
A fighter with maxed out feats to ensure her longsword is the "sharpest hand held guillotine" this side of the Bastille....

The men play:

A fighter
A cleric

The women I play with are every bit as blood thirsty and hack and slash happy as ANY man I've ever played with....I've gamed with one of these women for 18 years and she's always been that way. My wife (gamer for 11 years) started off playing a cowardly thief in 2nd edition, but then became a helion wizard who fireballed and cloudkilled orcs from orbit with glee.

Wizards, and anyone else, can stick any preconceived notions about girl gamers up their wazoos.....

Contributor

Disenchanter: HA, made my Will save.

;)

-Amber S.


Hey Amber, how is Edmonton treating you? Have the dirty road nuggets melted away, or do they yet linger in the shadows?

Contributor

Oh, they linger. They linger. But it's finally starting to warm up and get melty and puddle-y outside. I have high hopes that it's not going to snow again until October.

How're you? (You can always email me at medesha at yahoo dot com if you don't want to turn this into a catch-up thread. :) ).

-Amber S.

Andoran

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:


I *have* had gamers offend me. I've been told I can only play a whore, that I should dress more provocatively in return for being allowed to play, and that it is assumed my character has sex with any male character whenever the male character wants,...

That's hideous! If any of the members of my gaming group had treated my wife (then my girlfriend) that way when she was starting to play, there's a fairly good chance that some people would have been rolling for initiative OUTSIDE the game, if you know what I mean...


Blackdragon wrote:
bubbagump wrote:


Why is it that women have to be singled out at all?
Because it's a knee jerk reaction to realizing that RPG's as a whole have ignored or alienated women for the last 30 yrs. And now Hasbro has realized that maybe we should actually try marketing to the OTHER HALF OF THE POPULATION! But they're doing it in this clumsy, sterotype heavy style that is both offensive and kind of pathetic.

First of all, let me say I live on Brazil, so what I will say may apply to here and not to the reality of yours.

I don't think that the RPG industry has been "ignoring" women. Save for a few things that are really offensive to women, I think that RPG (and particularly D&D) just have elements that simply don't appeal to most women. Just like there are a lot more men than women on computer science, and a lot more women tham men on physiotherapy.

I think it's probably because D&D is related to medieval fantasy and tactical wargaming, two things that don't have at lot of women into. This is particularly true on Brazil, where these things are associated with nerdism, geekery, lack of social skill, and worse, "devil-inspiration". I've heard many times that "the worst line to drop to a woman is to say that you play RPG". Not surprisingly, here D&D women players are very rare.

While I praise Wotc attempts to increase the interest of women players, I'm a bit cetic that if it can be done without changing the nature or the game, or putting strong marketing to change the way D&D players are perceived by general community (which is irrelevant here, where Wotc never did any kind of marketing. heh)

I see that it's probably not your case, but I love the tactical wargaming aspect of D&D (what you call "hack'n'slash"), and I don't think that has to be changed just to appeal to women players. For instance, it seems that Ragnarok has much more women players than Starcraft, possibly because Ragnark is more focused on player-to-player interaction, and is Starcraft is more focused on tactical wargaming. Does this mean that Starcraft is "knee-jerk" and must "blamed" for alienating women players with a game system that doesn't appeal to them? Does every game need to suit everyone's tastes?

I can say that D&D certainly doesn't suit the taste of 99% of brazillians. But it suits my taste, and I hate most stuff which is made to appeal to 99% of brazillians.

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