How long before it says Chronicles Subscriber above my name?
Huh, mine was almost instant.
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Hopefully this won't spark another round of bad feelings, okay? Hey, we agree on Seoni right? (Till the new Paladin is unveiled anyway!)
Hey, I don't agree about Seoni!!! I prefer Merisiel!!! What? You're saying you wanted to stop an argument from happening?
Ok, let's have both Seoni and Merisiel then! Add Kyra as well! And that upcomming Paladin! And the two female icons left we'll get in 6 months! And the (hopefully ;p ) female drow of #13 cover! Big party, everyone's invited!
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We haven't specifically done it for the RotR cards—it's just a side effect of the fact that when you subscribe to any of our lines, you can always start with the current installment or the next installment.
Ahh alright then.
As for letting you skip some products, well, is that really a subscription? Does Sports Illustrated let you skip the College Football Special just because you only care about the NFL? One of the good things about subscriptions from our side is that they help us set out print runs in advance. We have a certain number of subscribers, and we use that to set our print runs. If a bunch of people decide to skip a product, we'd have potentially overprinted.
Vic, Vic, Vic. You can't compare a magazine subscription to Pathfinder Chronicles. For starters magazine subscription are 40-75% less then the retail price. Second, when you don't want the magazine anymore, you can just throw it away.. after all.. what did it cost you.. 50c - $1 an issue. Careful now, I work in a bookstore, I know how much SI costs. What does the item cards cost after delivery.. $12 - $15. That's a lot harder to swallow when you drop it in the trash can.
Also, that would provide a way for people to get the subscriber benefit of the free PDF for some items without providing the commitment to us that makes providing that perk worthwhile from our point of view—the same commitment that everyone else has provided to us.
Some people only want supplements; not cards, dice, miniatures, binders, and whatever else could be put in the product line called "Pathfinder Chronicles." The moment Pathfinder Chronicles has more items in it then supplement is the moment I cancel the subscription, buy the books individually and get the PDFs the old fashion way.
I actually really like the item cards. I started using them toward the end of the campaign I was running just before I started Rise of the Runelords. I think they are a great addition to the game. When the PC uses a potion I collect the card. There is less bookkeeping for the players.
And I can TOTALLY understand. For instance, when I ran D0 my players picked up that head from the witch hut, and I changed it into a magic 8 ball augury item that works once per day because they are all newbies and they can use the help. It just opens its mouth, says yes, no, maybe, or I'm not sure.
So after a couple of games, they totally forgot they have it, and it would have really helped them out.
ITEM CARDS ARE TOTALLY USEFUL AND GREAT FOR RECORD KEEPING.
Now, my problem is that I already enough crap and don't want to add cards, so I just keep a special, colored piece of paper with everything that the characters have on it so I can remind the dumbasses when they forget something.
So please guys, my objection (if I can be allowed to take back anything else I've said earlier cuz I've changed my mind) is only that you need to buy more cards than you get in the subscription for them to really add to the game.
And I have to decided to get the subscription. But please excuse me if I cancel it when you start pushing stuff that isn't campaign supplement. And no, I don't think cards are a supplement, they are an organizational aid.
Well, I do not mind the item cards. Mainly because if I use them sooner, then great. If I use them later, then that is ok too. After all, they do not take up much room, and I would kick myself if I wanted them later and they were not available. ~grins~ Just my $0.02.
You know, while I like a lot of the Chronicles stuff, and would like the pdfs of all the books and maps, I really, really have no use for the item cards. Add to that the fact I do not like the art of the gentleman doing the Harrow deck, and you begin to see my reluctance towards subscribing. As it stands, since we can't elect to not get the cards, it looks like if I want everything else I will have to get a subscription, cancel it just before the cards ship, then start it up after that. That's really annoying, but appears to be the only alternative. Why not have a non-card subscription? There's obviously a market for it. It means you get more assured sales than if you do not offer it, plus it saves both you and us a lot of hassle with dropping and renewing subscriptions.
Stephen
As I mentioned earlier:
since we can't elect to not get the cards, it looks like if I want everything else I will have to get a subscription, cancel it just before the cards ship, then start it up after that.
Word, man.
Let's see what Cosmo has to say about this when guys start clocking off just before the cards ship, then back on after they ship.
Why not have a non-card subscription?
This is grand, there are more that a few of us wondering about that. And I wonder how many people will look at the subscription and say no to it summarily because of the cards they don't want without even coming in here to put in their 2c? Could it be possible that an option like that may increase the appeal?
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As it stands, since we can't elect to not get the cards, it looks like if I want everything else I will have to get a subscription, cancel it just before the cards ship, then start it up after that. That's really annoying, but appears to be the only alternative. Why not have a non-card subscription? There's obviously a market for it. It means you get more assured sales than if you do not offer it, plus it saves both you and us a lot of hassle with dropping and renewing subscriptions.
And the real joke of the matter is "Pathfinder Accessories" have the cards listed in them and aside from the shirt, the cards are the only things in it. So if they don't want to create 2 chronicles subscriptions, they could easily make the cards part of a "Pathfinder Accessories" a subscription. :P
I was thinking about doing the renew/drop/renew/drop route. I'm just concerned that eventually we'll see cards shipped in a month that a book comes out.
I was thinking about doing the renew/drop/renew/drop route. I'm just concerned that eventually we'll see cards shipped in a month that a book comes out.
Which is exactly what I'm afraid of too. I don't want the cards, don't need them (and regarding the Harrow Deck it's also a huge factor that I don't really like Kyle's art).
Another thing that might be a problem is whether any items like the cards will affect the shipping rate (they might be categorized the same way as books, though, but I don't know).
I was thinking about doing the renew/drop/renew/drop route. I'm just concerned that eventually we'll see cards shipped in a month that a book comes out.
This occurred to me, too.
I must admit I am surprised by Vic's dismissive response so far, but they aren't dicks--meaning I don't think they would do that.
(ED: okay, "dismissive" is unfair, but really, if we are gonna be fair with our language, Chronicles was introduced as a campaign supplement, and in my RPG lexicon Harrow decks and item cards are not campaign supplements.)
Big party, everyone's invited!
Decided to spoiler this as it is derogatory towards women:
Let me guess...is the party in your pants?[NSFW]
when you don't want the magazine anymore, you can just throw it away..
Seriously? Then again, working in a bookstore as you do, you probably have a higher volume to deal with.
Something that my Cookbook of the Month club does is the option to "skip" this month's selection - if said selection was the aforementioned Item Cards, and you were allowed to skip said item, would that appeal to those that don't want the Item Cards? Or is going to the website and saying "Skip this item please" not an option?
Something that my Cookbook of the Month club does is the option to "skip" this month's selection - if said selection was the aforementioned Item Cards, and you were allowed to skip said item, would that appeal to those that don't want the Item Cards? Or is going to the website and saying "Skip this item please" not an option?
I am all up for that sort of option. I want the books and maps, I don't want the item cards (I don't grok their utility), and I definitely don't want the Harrow Deck (don't like the artist's style). If I could opt out of the cards whenever they show up, that would be cool.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I'm also not terribly pleased about the item cards being included in the Chronicles subscription but, having given it some thought, Erik's point about it only including two decks a year is fair. $20 a year won't be missed.
I will be picking up the Chronicles subscription, in spite of the item cards' inclusion, but I will probably cancel my GameMastery sub. They're great products, but my group and I just aren't really big on pre-written modules. I'll continue my PF sub simply because I love all the flavor stuff in the back. The adventures themselves are a fun read, but I strongly doubt we'll ever put many of them to use.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Something that my Cookbook of the Month club does is the option to "skip" this month's selection - if said selection was the aforementioned Item Cards, and you were allowed to skip said item, would that appeal to those that don't want the Item Cards? Or is going to the website and saying "Skip this item please" not an option?I am all up for that sort of option. I want the books and maps, I don't want the item cards (I don't grok their utility), and I definitely don't want the Harrow Deck (don't like the artist's style). If I could opt out of the cards whenever they show up, that would be cool.
If this option were presented, I would definitely be all over it.
I don't mind the cards. They're kind of neat and may actually see use in my game, and I'm ecstatic over the Harrow deck.
However, I am a little concerned about the product schedule. It looks like you've got 10 products over an 8-month period (with as many as 3 in one month and none the next), and the August item carries a $50 tag: this is an expensive and erratic schedule. I'm very interested in the subscription if it turns out I can afford it, but I wonder if you could comment on whether the release dates and prices might normalize a bit. Perhaps, one product a month? Perhaps, a more stable monthly price? Being able to easily predict what a subscription is going to cost me in a year (or even a given month) is of great interest to me.
Thanks.
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However, I am a little concerned about the product schedule. It looks like you've got 10 products over an 8-month period (with as many as 3 in one month and none the next), and the August item carries a $50 tag: this is an expensive and erratic schedule. I'm very interested in the subscription if it turns out I can afford it, but I wonder if you could comment on whether the release dates and prices might normalize a bit. Perhaps, one product a month? Perhaps, a more stable monthly price? Being able to easily predict what a subscription is going to cost me in a year (or even a given month) is of great interest to me.
Thanks.
I think it's the nature of the beast that the Chronicles Sub is a bit uneven on it's schedule and cost.
But, you can easily turn some sense into it, by looking at similar products:
- We'll get a card deck (10$) and a map folio (15$) every 6 months, near the end of each Adventure Path. Total 50$ a year.
- We'll probably get a Guide to [...] (18$) every 3 months. The Campaign Setting might replace that in August, and I doubt there will be another 50$ charge soon after that (maybe they plan for once a year, near GenCon time?) Total 75-100$ a year.
- Irregular other goodies, like the Harrow deck (16$) and Classic Monsters. I would say 20$ every quarter could cover it, more or less. Total 75$ a year.
Average around 15-20$ a month. (+ S/H, which is not really an issue, if you got a PF sub already).
I'm also not terribly pleased about the item cards being included in the Chronicles subscription but, having given it some thought, Erik's point about it only including two decks a year is fair. $20 a year won't be missed.
Consumergasm. A great suggestion. Buy it because it is cheap. Even though you don't want it.
... "skip" this month's selection - if said selection was the aforementioned Item Cards, and you were allowed to skip said item, would that appeal to those that don't want the Item Cards? Or is going to the website and saying "Skip this item please" not an option? ...
Yes Lilith, that is exactly what we want. Nobody has explained that we can skip an item, and frankly I think it would be better to make this clear in the subscription page because some people are not going to subscribe because they don't want Paizo sending them accessories in a supplement line subscription.
My vote: I like the subscription including everything.
Thanks for the support...
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Something that my Cookbook of the Month club does is the option to "skip" this month's selection - if said selection was the aforementioned Item Cards, and you were allowed to skip said item, would that appeal to those that don't want the Item Cards? Or is going to the website and saying "Skip this item please" not an option?
That's what I originally suggested on page 1 of this thread to Paizo and the idea was rejected stating that Sports Illustrated for $1 a month (subscription) doesn't let you skip issues you don't want, why should Chronicles... hence my long post at the top of page 2. :)
That's what I originally suggested on page 1 of this thread to Paizo and the idea was rejected stating that Sports Illustrated for $1 a month (subscription) doesn't let you skip issues you don't want, why should Chronicles... hence my long post at the top of page 2. :)
Don't feel bad Urza, I alluded to it in three different posts prior to your joining this thread. For that matter, the idea was bounced around by the Paizo themselves months ago, when the subscription idea was just being proposed and kicked around. That's where I got the idea when I posted in this thread.
Not that it actually really matters in the least bit whether it was me, you or Lilith, right? ;)
Unfortunately, Paizo came about the current arrangement after having already considering this idea. Sorry.
Chronicles subscription is only for people who
a) Want item cards.
b) Think it's okay to spend twenty (sorry, 30 incl. P/H charges) dollars a year on things you don't want. Then there's the harrow deck.
That 30+ bucks a year looks a lot better in my daughter's college fund.
Also, that would provide a way for people to get the subscriber benefit of the free PDF for some items without providing the commitment to us that makes providing that perk worthwhile from our point of view—the same commitment that everyone else has provided to us.
I just saw this. So only people who subscribe are committed to Paizo?
Commitment means paying for a product and shipping when you don't want the product? What a great lesson. The environment is going to pot and I'm supposed to just say go ahead and kill the tree and throw it in the mail so I can toss it in the can. Great.
You're right, Vic, I don't deserve the Chronicles pdfs.
;)
Kruelaid, my man...
You aren't some shlub "off the street" just talking trash, so that is why I am going to take the time to write this.
I ask, only for myself - not anyone else, that you ease up off the throttle a little bit.
You have a beef, and a legitimate one. I am not asking you to forget about it. I am not asking you to let go of it.
I don't know what other forums you usually read, but right now the staff at Paizo have their hands full. Even the CEO (Lisa Stevens) is pulling tours of duty at the warehouse packing orders, and there were more than a few issue that crept up from that Green Ronin sale.
I can't speak for the staff, but the Chronicles subscription probably isn't really high up on their priorities at this time. Give them a chance to reply to you.
I think it's the nature of the beast that the Chronicles Sub is a bit uneven on it's schedule and cost.But, you can easily turn some sense into it, by looking at similar products:
- We'll get a card deck (10$) and a map folio (15$) every 6 months, near the end of each Adventure Path. Total 50$ a year.
- We'll probably get a Guide to [...] (18$) every 3 months. The Campaign Setting might replace that in August, and I doubt there will be another 50$ charge soon after that (maybe they plan for once a year, near GenCon time?) Total 75-100$ a year.
- Irregular other goodies, like the Harrow deck (16$) and Classic Monsters. I would say 20$ every quarter could cover it, more or less. Total 75$ a year.
Average around 15-20$ a month. (+ S/H, which is not really an issue, if you got a PF sub already).
One dollar of things you don't want is too much because of the principle. I am buying chronicles product seperately. I will also buy the PDFs that I most need. This will cost more than the subscription, but I will avoid getting cards that I will not use.
Something else to consider. Kruelaid and I live in Asia. He is in China, I am in Taiwan. Shipping for us costs about half as much again as the product we buy. I routinely pay $40 dollars delivery for a couple of books. That is for the cheapest, forty day delivery possible. IF the subscription offered a card-free option it would be a no-brainer. As it is, I will just have to pay more for less.
The numbers matter little. Principle is important.
I love to support Paizo where I can. It is not cheap to do so from the other side of the world. Having a few gallons of oil used up to send me something I don't need or want does not seem a fair use.
Since the Chronicles line is in fact various different products, why not provide a SKIP option for all the products? You've done it with the Runelord cards, so why not put it on all the Chronicles product?
We haven't specifically done it for the RotR cards—it's just a side effect of the fact that when you subscribe to any of our lines, you can always start with the current installment or the next installment.
As for letting you skip some products, well, is that really a subscription? Does Sports Illustrated let you skip the College Football Special just because you only care about the NFL? One of the good things about subscriptions from our side is that they help us set out print runs in advance. We have a certain number of subscribers, and we use that to set our print runs. If a bunch of people decide to skip a product, we'd have potentially overprinted.
Also, that would provide a way for people to get the subscriber benefit of the free PDF for some items without providing the commitment to us that makes providing that perk worthwhile from our point of view—the same commitment that everyone else has provided to us.
I can get your point Vic, sort of. But you miss the fact that a Pathfinder Chronicles subscription is significantly different to a Sports Illustrated subscription. With the SI subscription, you know exactly what you are going to get. X issues at Y total cost for a saving of Z bucks. With the Pathfinder Chronicles subscription we (the customers) are completely at your mercy as to what that includes. We have a rough idea going forward what it will include, and when, but the only perks for subscribing are the free pdf and combined shipping with other subscription products.
I could see your point, and probably would agree if subscribers got a discount. But all they get really is a free pdf. Something they could scan themselves if they wanted, and that costs you nothing to provide, (I doubt many people would pay for both pdf and hard copies).
The other thing is that you already do provide a "skip" option. It just takes the form of an email sent to Cosmo asking to stop your subscription, then you sign up after the product you don't want has shipped. Surely providing a skip button would save Cosmo and the (overworked, but absolutely fantastic) customer service team a stack of work canceling Pathfinder Chronicles subscriptions every month because they contain items people don't want.
I would sign up for the Pathfinders Chronicles subscription in a heartbeat, except it includes the item cards and the Map Folios that I really don't want. With shipping and currency conversion to Australia, it works out at about an extra 50 - 60 bucks a year if I "have" to get them as well. At this point, the subscription loses its viability, and I have to seriously consider if the overhead is worth it for the free pdfs.
Just letting you know what I am thinking because I am really attracted to the idea of a Pathfinder Chronicles Subscription, but the current format is giving me significant hesitation.
Provide a "skip" option, and I'm signed up in a heartbeat. Don't, and I have to work out if I am comfortable making Cosmo cancel my subscription 3 - 4 times a year.
Disenchanter,
Thanks for chipping in friendly, I just want to keep this thread alive, but sadly I can quickly become an excessively harsh person and you know what I'm talking about. That's not good. Actually, I've been using 'kruelaid' as a handle for 12-13 years because I used to be REALLY harsh online. And you are totally right, they are swamped--I've got a 125 USD order of stuff that is pending--only one is an item is a sale item, the rest is standard price Paizo published material. You won't here me complaining about the wait.
Vic,
Judging our commitment to Paizo by the number of our subscriptions is uncool, as is encouraging wasteful consumerism like ordering stuff you don't want just to get something else that you do. Personally, in addition to my order (mentioned above), I've got 90 USD of Paizo published product that my family and friends have sent to me from Canada and the US in the last 5 months. I recommend Paizo to every gamer I know, and two of my old buddies are buying your stuff in Calgary, Alberta because of my suggestions. They quit D&D 15 years ago and they like your stuff enough to get back in. I am very committed.
And, the customer is always right.
For just a minute, why don't you look at this matter of commitment differently: you are straining the commitment of some of your valuable customers by putting us into a corner.
Sincerely,
Karlis
PS. Ignore this if you want, but I want to belabor a point already made. Chronicles was first presented to us as a campaign supplement that would flesh out Golarion. The cards are accessories. Although I have noticed you have them listed as Chronicles on the page, it doesn't say so on the card boxes. I must admit I am mystified by your increasingly ambiguous product labelling.
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I've gone ahead and subscribed, but I want to state my agreement. I don't want the item cards, and I don't intend to use them. For me, I thought the $20 is easier than trying to keep track of the release schedule.
But, the whole point for me of the subscription is that with my subscription product, I get a free PDF. If there is no free PDF, there is less incentive for me to buy directly from Paizo.
This move helps cut my local gaming store out of a further percentage of my spending. The same thing happened when you had subscriber sections in Dungeon Magazine. I think we all remember how well that went over.
I'm not saying that Paizo can't make the subscription include whatever they want. I'm not even saying that it will affect my decision to subscribe. What I am saying is that when you developed this product, there is a reason you decided the item cards SHOULD be included. Considering the differences between the item cards and the other products in the subscription, I think that decision should be revisited.
I will also say that I have come to expect the high level of customer service from Paizo. Of late, it hasn't been up to the usual high standard. I'm certain that it has to do with additional work load, etc. However, I'd like to make the point that we all know you're better than that.
I think it boils down to the feeling that some customer concerns are being dismissed out of hand. In Customer Service the first task is to listen to the customer. Second step is build empathy.
If you can make the change to accomodate the customer, all well and good. If you can't, then say why you can't in a caring manner. Even though you're not doing something wrong (you have to do it a particular way) it doesn't hurt to say you're sorry that you can't help as much as you'd like to in the particular situation.
In any case, much of the good will for Paizo on these boards is from people like me seeing the staff go out of their way to accomodate other customers. It makes me all warm and fuzzy and before you know it, I've got more subscriptions than I know what to do with and a huge Green Ronin order.
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But, the whole point for me of the subscription is that with my subscription product, I get a free PDF. If there is no free PDF, there is less incentive for me to buy directly from Paizo.
Yeap, same here.
There are other choices, other options for me to get Pathfinder/GameMastery stuff. I work in a bookstore, I could order all the Chronicles books from Books In Print and get my employee discount. There's Amazon.Com. There's my local gaming store. And lastly, my local comic store will order anything for the regulars that they normally don't stock and sell it to us at cost.
The PDFs are why I spend $5 on shipping plus cover price for all the books.
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Judging our commitment to Paizo by the number of our subscriptions is uncool...
This is the second or third time I've seen you talk about the "commitment" Vic mentioned, and I just though I'd point out that I think he meant a different type of commitment. Just for reference, this is what Vic originally said:
Also, that would provide a way for people to get the subscriber benefit of the free PDF for some items without providing the commitment to us that makes providing that perk worthwhile from our point of view-the same commitment that everyone else has provided to us.
Now, I can't speak for Vic, but what I assumed he meant by this was the financial commitment you make when you sign up for a subscription. Based on the number of commitments (read: subscriptions) people make, they know how many copies of each item to make. In this context, "commitment" has nothing to do with your dedication to Paizo, instead it's about whether or not you're willing to commit to buying all the products in the line.
[Note that I'm not saying whether or not the item cards should be included in the product line.]
Void Eagle, I'd say you are correct. In return for making a financial commitment, they are offering a discount (Free PDF, combined shipping, and the ease of always receiving the newest/latest Pathfinder product). Simple equation that is fair by any standard business practice out there.
Best.
SirUrza, sorry! I didn't recall your post...my bad.
Not that it actually really matters in the least bit whether it was me, you or Lilith, right? ;)
Not terribly important, but still...one should give credit when applicable. :)
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There are other choices, other options for me to get Pathfinder/GameMastery stuff. I work in a bookstore, I could order all the Chronicles books from Books In Print and get my employee discount. There's Amazon.Com. There's my local gaming store. And lastly, my local comic store will order anything for the regulars that they normally don't stock and sell it to us at cost.
The PDFs are why I spend $5 on shipping plus cover price for all the books.
To know I'm not going to be backordered by alliance/diamond is another good reason, the critical hit deck I ordered through the comic store I worked at was backordered for 2 months because alliance didn't relize how good it would be, after that I decided that getting things when it was new, and the PDF to look over while I wait for it to show up is a great improvement to looking at the shipping list every Wed to see "your preorder of X has been backordered again this week."
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Also, that would provide a way for people to get the subscriber benefit of the free PDF for some items without providing the commitment to us that makes providing that perk worthwhile from our point of view-the same commitment that everyone else has provided to us.Now, I can't speak for Vic, but what I assumed he meant by this was the financial commitment you make when you sign up for a subscription. Based on the number of commitments (read: subscriptions) people make, they know how many copies of each item to make. In this context, "commitment" has nothing to do with your dedication to Paizo, instead it's about whether or not you're willing to commit to buying all the products in the line.
The other way of viewing that "commitment", which is tied to the last part of Vic's message: Personnaly, if I subscribe, I'm telling Paizo that I'll buy their products for some time. In exchange for this information (commitment), I get free PDFs and combined shipping very soon after the release of those products. If I see another person that gets the same benfits as I do, but doesn't give as much to Paizo as I do, I feel it's not fair. Which is why I could see what Vic said at the end as important: "the same commitment that everyone else has provided to us".
[Like Void_Eagle, I'm not saying item cards should be in the sub or not, merely that I'm not a big fan of "optional" commitemnts. In fact, like I said in an ealier post, I would agree that some products could be optional (item cards, harrow deck, even map folios), but I certainly disagree that all products would be optional.]
[As another opinion, suggesting the possibility of playing a subscribe-cancel-resubscribe-recancel game, I find even more distasteful than asking for optionality of products. I agree some people can have special situations in their lives were they realy need to cancel for some time, but doing this 3-4 times a year so you only get the products you want, I see as even more unfair to someone, like me, who will stick with the Subscription until I can't afford it or find it doesn't give me what I need anymore. That's my opinion, and I sincerely hope that Paizo staff/CS will not allow this.]
The other way of viewing that "commitment", which is tied to the last part of Vic's message: Personnaly, if I subscribe, I'm telling Paizo that I'll buy their products for some time. In exchange for this information (commitment), I get free PDFs and combined shipping very soon after the release of those products. If I see another person that gets the same benfits as I do, but doesn't give as much to Paizo as I do, I feel it's not fair. Which is why I could see what Vic said at the end as important: "the same commitment that everyone else has provided to us".
[Like Void_Eagle, I'm not saying item cards should be in the sub or not, merely that I'm not a big fan of "optional" commitemnts. In fact, like I said in an ealier post, I would agree that some products could be optional (item cards, harrow deck, even map folios), but I certainly disagree that all products would be optional.]
[As another opinion, suggesting the possibility of playing a subscribe-cancel-resubscribe-recancel game, I find even more distasteful than asking for optionality of products. I agree some people can have special situations in their lives were they realy need to cancel for some time, but doing this 3-4 times a year so you only get the products you want, I see as even more more unfair to someone, like me, who will stick with the Subscription until I can't afford it or find it doesn't give me what I need anymore. That's my opinion, and I sincerely hope that Paizo staff/CS will not allow this.]
No long speech this time. I'm with Djoc, he speaks for me this time. I'll only add one thing in regards to his last paragraph; Cosmo gets paid for his time. Erik and Lisa have to pay him, and his productivity has real world cash value. Generating more work for the company doesn't support it.
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Also, that would provide a way for people to get the subscriber benefit of the free PDF for some items without providing the commitment to us that makes providing that perk worthwhile from our point of view-the same commitment that everyone else has provided to us.The other way of viewing that "commitment", which is tied to the last part of Vic's message: Personnaly, if I subscribe, I'm telling Paizo that I'll buy their products for some time. In exchange for this information (commitment), I get free PDFs and combined shipping very soon after the release of those products. If I see another person that gets the same benfits as I do, but doesn't give as much to Paizo as I do, I feel it's not fair. Which is why I could see what Vic said at the end as important: "the same commitment that everyone else has provided to us".
I thought of a much better way to describe what I think Vic was trying to say. If you replace the word "commitment" with "promise" (and add one minor clarification), it says this:
Also, that would provide a way for people to get the subscriber benefit of the free PDF for some items without providing the promise (of a subscription) to us that makes providing that perk worthwhile from our point of view-the same promise that everyone else has provided to us.
But regardless, I think we both can agree that Vic wasn't questioning anyone's commitment to support Paizo. :)
I'm not sure the cards should be in.
But give them some time - right now, you can choose to exclude the first card pack, meaning that you're in the clear for a couple of months. Maybe they'll have more time to think this over until then, but if not, you can still cancel the subscription before the next cards will be included.
I personally don't like the suggestion of "cheating the system" by unsubscribing and subscribing again to skip stuff you don't want. I could see that if that becomes too common, they will disallow you to subscribe again to something you have unsubscribed within the last 3 months or so (unless there was no actual skipped product between the cancelling and the resubscription, and it could be interpreted as you changing your mind or something)
But I'm sure it was just done in jest. (Don't forget that others might take it at face value and do what you only joked about)
You don't *vote* for Karzoug!
Then how did he become Runelord???
The other way of viewing that "commitment", which is tied to the last part of Vic's message: Personnaly, if I subscribe, I'm telling Paizo that I'll buy their products for some time. In exchange for this information (commitment), I get free PDFs and combined shipping very soon after the release of those products. If I see another person that gets the same benfits as I do, but doesn't give as much to Paizo as I do, I feel it's not fair. Which is why I could see what Vic said at the end as important: "the same commitment that everyone else has provided to us".
You can cancel a subscription any time you want so how is this a promise. In fact, I do it for convenience, not because I want to signal my promise or commitment, nor is this about 'giving' to Paizo. They are a business providing products which I pay for. And I pay for a lot of Paizo products, not just those in my subscription. I put an Amazon.com order in with 2 Planet Stories titles last night.
Again, I see no reason to waste materials that I don't want. If I don't want them then I can't get something else I do want. So Chronicles pdfs are only for people who use cards. Nice.
I am in agreement with the exclude card lobby, but will sign up (when I figure out how) and see how I go.
I live is Australia so shipping is a big issue. BTW just got my GR sale shipment with half a dozen Green knight novels. Thanks- you packed it tight to get me maximum return for my shipping dollar.
I am also interested in getting TC1 - does anyone know if there is an option to have that included in my monthly shipment?
Finally I dont really understand how the current subscriber system is veiwed as a commitment by Paizo. I can cancel anytime I want - doesnt this stuff up forward planning? When I was a subscriber to Dungeon I ticked a box saying 2 more years paid the money. Now that was commitment.
Chief Technical Officer
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Boy... I got busy for a day, and have a lot to say!
First of all, Void_Eagle's interpretation of my "commitment" comment is correct. I was talking about a commitment to buy the upcoming products in the subscription, and not attempting to measure a customer's commitment to Paizo by how much they spend. (And, yes, even though you *can* cancel, that commitment is still valuable to us a predictive tool. We can determine an expected cancellation rate each month, and plan for it. Planning for how many people will drop out for one single product would be trickier, at least until we had a solid history for each product type.)
Next, on the topic of shipping costs, I mentioned this in another thread:
I just added all seven products for February to my cart (assuming you have a Pathfinder sub, a GameMastery Modules sub, a Pathfinder Chronicles sub, and a Planet Stories sub), and shipping to Australia remains at $6.86.
For those of you who are curious, that's:
• Pathfinder Chronicles: Guide to Korvosa
• Pathfinder Chronicles: Rise of the Runelords Map Folio
• Pathfinder: Curse of the Crimson Throne Player's Guide
• Pathfinder #7—Curse of the Crimson Throne Chapter 1: "Edge of Anarchy"
• Pathfinder Chronicles: Harrow Deck
• GameMastery Module J3: Crucible of Chaos
• Almuric (Planet Stories)
As for the labelling of the first set of Pathfinder Chronicles Item Cards, we started working on those before the rest of the line really existed. If we were to design that box today, it would bear the Pathfinder Chronicles logo instead of the GameMastery logo on the front. The Curse of the Crimson Throne Item Cards will be designed that way.
Kruelaid, I understand that you feel the cards count as accessories, and the rest of the line counts as supplements. If you look back in the boards where people started asking about deluxe subscriptions, you can see that everyone has different ideas about what "counts." Some people just want the books. Some also want the Map Folios. Some also want the Item Cards. Some want the Harrow Deck. Some even want the T-Shirt. Everybody seemed to have a different idea about what such a subscription "should include;" we defined it the way we see it.
Personally, I feel strongly that there's a line between "a subscription," and "pick and choose." If somebody told me that they wanted a subscription to Pathfinder, but didn't want anything written by Nicolas Logue or Richard Pett, I'd say that a Pathfinder subscription is probably not for them. Fundamentally, a subscription means that you get some benefit in exchange for the purchase of future products, and asking for the benefit without the promise—well, is that really fair to us, or to the people who are willing to make the promise?
That said, we've started to discuss the possibility of a "skip" button for Chronicles subs only. We'll talk about it more next week (but don't take that to mean that we'll have a decision soon).
Something that my Cookbook of the Month clubWait..there's a Golarion Cookbook included in the subscription?
;)
I wish...of course, I'm also the one that got Leaves from the Inn of the Last Home because I wanted the recipes. :D
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(And, yes, even though you *can* cancel, that commitment is still valuable to us a predictive tool. We can determine an expected cancellation rate each month, and plan for it. Planning for how many people will drop out for one single product would be trickier, at least until we had a solid history for each product type.)
A skip option would be allow you to plan for it appropriately though, wouldn't be guessing or predicting, you'd know who wanted it.
It also allow you (paizo) to reexamin in a few months whether or not these cards should be in the product line or just in the accessory category. Without the skip option, you're going to have 5 types of customers for Chronicles..
1. People that are happy and want the cards.
2. People that are happy and pay for the cards.
3. People that are unhappy with the cards but pay for them.
4. People that are unhappy with the cards and won't subscribe.
5. People that are unhappy with the cards and play the cancel game.
A lot of negatives there.
RE: the mysterious brand labeling switcharoo:
it would bear the Pathfinder Chronicles logo instead of the GameMastery logo on the front
Fair enough.
Some people just want the books. Some also want the Map Folios. Some also want the Item Cards. Some want the Harrow Deck. Some even want the T-Shirt.
This is the best reason for a skip button that I've heard so far. You can add more products, get a more regular schedule, and make everyone happy. Your subscription rate will go up, you might not sell as many cards because you are no longer pushing them, but people will choose other stuff. There will be no more unhappy people in SirUrza's checklist. There will be nobody wasting money on things they don't want.
That said, we've started to discuss the possibility of a "skip" button for Chronicles subs only. We'll talk about it more next week (but don't take that to mean that we'll have a decision soon).
I'm glad Lilith came in here and posted that, because not only is she a well known member of the community and known by you guys, but it proved the point of some of my fellow protesters, and it is a really good idea. Plus she rules.
Thanks Lilith. Thanks for everyone who came in here and pushed the issue.
Sorry if I sounded pissed Vic, but I was. Also, I understood your usage of commitment quite well and did not need it explained--the point was that you didn't acknowledge our idea of commitment, and that true commitment should be reciprocal.
Thanks Vic.
Yours Truly,
KA
1. People that are happy and want the cards.
2. People that are happy and pay for the cards.
3. People that are unhappy with the cards but pay for them.
4. People that are unhappy with the cards and won't subscribe.
5. People that are unhappy with the cards and play the cancel game.A lot of negatives there.
Doesn't necessarily mean that the unhappy people outnumber the happy people. It's possible that option 2 accounts for 50% of all people alone, and that less than 1% go ith 5.
Vic:
Instead of a cancel button, you could do two Chronicles subscriptions: One with cards, one without. I could see this as the better option because you'll know right away how many people are interested in the cards well before you have to plan your production run.
Oh, and I haven't given up on PDFs for those decks yet!