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Daniele Nanni

Round 1: Gloves of Adaptive Combat
Round 2: Agregia

Gloves of Adaptive Combat


Round 1 - Open Call: Design a wondrous item

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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 aka Qor

GLOVES OF ADAPTIVE COMBAT

Price (Item Level): 4,000gp (8th)
Body Slot: Hands
Caster Level: 6th
Aura: Faint; (DC 16) transmutation
Activation: (Swift) command
Weight: 1/2 lb.

Made of velvety, cream colored leather, and emblazoned with a circular symbol of three interwoven braids on each palm, these gloves are deceptively fragile-looking.

Light and form-fitting, these gloves are preferred by fighters who wish to conceal their true intentions. Gloves of adaptive combat have 3 charges, which are renewed each day at dawn. Spending 1 or more charges upon activation of the gloves grants the wearer a temporary enhancement bonus to their strength. Depending on the charges spent, the wearer will either gain a substantial bonus to their strength for a short period of time, or they’ll earn a small bonus to their strength for a long period of time. More detail can be found below.

  • 1 charge: +6 enhancement bonus to strength for 1 round.
  • 2 charges: +4 enhancement bonus to strength for 1 minute.
  • 3 charges: +2 enhancement bonus to strength for 12 hours.
Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, bull’s strength or animal affinity (EPH 76).
Cost to Create: 2,000gp, 160XP, 4 days.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

I like this item. It's a neat way to give extra oomph to a low-level fighter without breaking the bank.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

The obvious analogue here is guantlets of ogre power, which grant the same +2 bonus constantly. The author has decided to cut the amount of time per day the item is active in half, and has accordingly decided to cut the price in half as well.

I'm not sure I agree with the logic. Magic item costing involves more "art" than just about any other mechanical part of D&D, and judgment must play a role. Limiting the effect to 12 hours is at best a minor limitation, because most adventuring activity of most parties on most days will fall within a predictable 12-hour period. Of course, if the party gets ambushed while they sleep or something, the fighter won't have his bonus, but this is the case far less than half of the time.

Accordingly, I might have priced the gloves at 3000 gp. But given how inexpensive the item is I don't want to hold it against it.

I think we should keep this item.

Qadira Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

It's irritating that he's using the MIC format instead of the requested SRD format, but yeah, it's an ok item.

Not sure it'll make the final nasty cut, but worth keeping around a little while. Fighters don't get a lot of wondrous items, frankly, so this is a good change-up.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

I still vote KEEP on this item, and I note Clark has not yet had a chance to weigh in.

We need to get cracking on this, folks.

What'll it be?

Qadira Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

I'm not as big a fan as you are, Erik, but it is a good item in a neglected part of the field.

I'm good with Keeping this, but would like to hear from Clark first.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

You guys want to keep it, I'll hit the button. But I am lukewarm at best. I think we have rejected a few better "bubble" items than this one.

Frankly, this one isnt even honorable mention in my book. But I do agree with Erik it is a good low level item. I like the necromantic gloves and the elemental mecha better.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

Kept.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I noticed that the tag next to Qor's name identifies them as an "alternate", but the item is in the winner's list - did someone drop out already?

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

Yep. Stay tuned.

Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Mothman wrote:
I noticed that the tag next to Qor's name identifies them as an "alternate", but the item is in the winner's list - did someone drop out already?

Ahhh! One of the missing entries was my favorite :-(

Bye inky blackness!

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

Ours too, obviously.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

I don't like it: It's (for all real purposes) strictly better than Guantlets of Ogre Power. And the fluff confuses me. How does this thing conceal intentions at all? Or adapt, really. If the abilities were different, it'd adapt, but it's just differing levels of the same power.

And Erik, I think you misread it: It costs the same as Ogre Power, not less.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

Huh. Maybe I was confused. I still think it should be 3,000 or maybe even 4000.


Erik Mona wrote:
Huh. Maybe I was confused. I still think it should be 3,000 or maybe even 4000.

It's 4000. In the MIC format, base price is at the top of the stat block. You're looking at the Cost to Create at the bottom (2000).

-Hyp.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

Erik Mona wrote:
Huh. Maybe I was confused. I still think it should be 3,000 or maybe even 4000.

Ogre Power costs 4,000. The MIC format moved the price to the top.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ross Byers wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:
Huh. Maybe I was confused. I still think it should be 3,000 or maybe even 4000.
Ogre Power costs 4,000. The MIC format moved the price to the top.

I've been confused by this before as well. I think the price for gauntlets of ogre power is incorrectly listed as 2000gp in one source.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

I could have sworn my DMG said 2000....

Osirion

Don't like it. One of the keystones of sympathetic magic is that stuff should look like what they do. Good D&D flavor text supports this. Guantlets of Rusting are big, crusty, rusted gauntlets. Darkskulls are repellant things that produce repellant results.

This thing looks all lacey and delicate but is associated with a Str bonus for no other reason than SUPRISE! I would much better approve of something that does what it looks like and really matches the effect with a cool look--or if it does suprise me that there's at least clues to its actual function in it's appearance.

For me, this is like creating boots that give you bonuses to spot. It just doesn't feel right.

That said, I like the idea of a charged Str nitro boost for fighters and barbarians--but I would probably have it be something big and gnarly looking with a skull on it.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

Grimcleaver wrote:


This thing looks all lacey and delicate but is associated with a Str bonus for no other reason than SUPRISE! I would much better approve of something that does what it looks like and really matches the effect with a cool look--or if it does suprise me that there's at least clues to its actual function in it's appearance.

I disagree. It can create great table moments. A halfing with these lacy, delicate gloves challenges the strongest character in a party to an arm wrestling contest. Right, it causes "suprise" but I think it can add a lot to an encounter.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Erik Mona wrote:
I could have sworn my DMG said 2000....

Mine does. But the srd says 4000


Why would any player choose to use the +2 bonus for 12 hours? The only situations I can think of when that would be more useful than the other two choices would be if the wearer had to swim, climb, or jump for a long time (which admittedly might happen once in a while, but not that often). If these were my gloves, I'd much more often use the +6 bonus for a round (to help with those momentary strength checks or get a good attack bonus one round) or the +4 bonus (to get a decent attack bonus for a whole combat).

You can get one +4 use and one +6 use per day, or one +2 use per day. It seems odd to me that the least useful function costs the most charges even though it does last longer.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

Well, presumably this would juice you up for all the fights in one day, making it essentially guantlets of ogre power.

Cheliax

Because at the 12 hour limit, it pretty much will function for the entirety of your adventuring day, making it almost exactly like having the ogre strength gauntlets.

This is like having gauntlets of ogre strength but with the option to expend it's ability in a few hits instead.


Eh, maybe it's just because I often play in almost non-combat groups, but a +4 in one combat seems more useful to me than a +2 in all combats.

Since you get a recharge at dawn, does that mean the effects wear off at dawn? So if you really want to get the most out of your +2 you have to decide 12 hours before dawn?

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, I wonder if this item should cost more, or have a higher caster level to create, than gauntlets of ogre power? Maybe not ... they are possibly more versatile but not necessarily "better".

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

Mothman wrote:
Yeah, I wonder if this item should cost more, or have a higher caster level to create, than gauntlets of ogre power? Maybe not ... they are possibly more versatile but not necessarily "better".

How is it not better? If you use the +2 ability you get the same bonus as the gauntlets, all day. Even being ambushed at night wouldn't matter much. If you don't sleep in armor, why would you sleep with gauntlets on?

Cheliax RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014 aka Boxhead

It certainly should be more expensive than Gauntlets of Ogre Power. It does the same thing, or more. Period.

Unless you happen to have a LOT of night encounters, it is Gauntlets of Ogre Power. OR, that day where you have only one encounter, it's better. There are no ifs, ands or buts here.

That said, it is a wonderful contrast to the Gauntlets and I do like the item.

Cheliax

Boxhead wrote:
OR, that day where you have only one encounter, it's better.

But that is only if you know that will be your only encounter that day.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ross Byers wrote:


How is it not better? If you use the +2 ability you get the same bonus as the gauntlets, all day. Even being ambushed at night wouldn't matter much. If you don't sleep in armor, why would you sleep with gauntlets on?

Mainly I was trying to be diplomatic. Although I was thinking of the being ambushed at night factor, but you make a good point about sleeping in armour.

However, if you decide to use the +2 bonus all day, you do not get the other uses (making it mechanically identical to ogre power, except that it only lasts 12 rather than 24 hours). There is versatility to the other functions, but you need to forgoe the all day bonus to use them.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 , Star Voter 2013

It gets bonus points for the XPH reference from me, but over all, kind of blah.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

Mothman wrote:


Mainly I was trying to be diplomatic. Although I was thinking of the being ambushed at night factor, but you make a good point about sleeping in armour.
However, if you decide to use the +2 bonus all day, you do not get the other uses (making it mechanically identical to ogre power, except that it only lasts 12 rather than 24 hours). There is versatility to the other functions, but you need to forgoe the all day bonus to use them.

Right, but it's strictly better in the sense that it's the same item, plus versatility. Especially because it's only a swift action to activate. If it was a standard action, it could at least penalize you for waiting to see what the first fight was.

Matthew Morris wrote:
It gets bonus points for the XPH reference from me, but over all, kind of blah.

I was actually wondering why that was in. Psionics are SRD, so the reference was unnecessary. And as a psionic item, it wouldn't be a Wondrous Item. It'd be a Universal item.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ross Byers wrote:
Especially because it's only an immediate action to activate.

Good point. I'm not used to reading this format of item description, and didn't notice that. A standard action activation would probably be better from a balance point of view.

Andoran RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Dementrius

I'm finding it hard to get excited about this one. The problem is that enhancement bonuses aren't sexy - you can get them anywhere. It's about as interesting and useful as a wand of bull's strength.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 aka Qor

Thank you everyone for the great critiques, comments, and suggestions! Please keep them coming. :)

Just to confirm some assumptions: yes, this item was designed to rival the Gauntlets of Ogre Power, while not [intentionally] stepping on its toes. I wanted the gloves to present an option to the low-level player interested in upgrading their gear. Obviously, once the player could afford a Belt of Giant Strength, this item would become obsolete, but such is the life of low-level magical items. :)

The price is identical to the Gauntlets of Ogre Power, since I felt they were equally as powerful. Of course, "power" is relative to the situation. In games where combat is consistent (perhaps a dungeon crawl), I would imagine the constant +2 from the GoOP would be much more beneficial than a situational enhancement. But, if you're playing in a game where combat isn't always lurking around the next corner, these gloves might become more beneficial.

The overall intention was for flexibility in play styles, since one game may be RP-heavy (maybe just one fight, if you're lucky!), and another could see you spending a solid block of game time fighting. In the end, if in your play style you like taking risks, with a possibly higher reward, then go with these gloves. Otherwise, if you're more about consistency, then the GoOP are probably for you.

Going back to a previous comment about the visual appeal of the gloves -- it came down to a stylistic decision for me. Big black gloves with a skull on it definitely scream "melee", but the people I imagined using gloves like these were more interested in tactics over brute force. As such, I figured the ideal candidate wanted to be discreet about their combat prowess. So I decided to make them appear delicate and flimsy. It's in the same vain as calling a 6'8", 350lb. brute "Tiny". :)

Thank you for all of the comments, and thank you to the judges for deeming my entry worthy enough!

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

Dementrius wrote:

I'm finding it hard to get excited about this one. The problem is that enhancement bonuses aren't sexy - you can get them anywhere. It's about as interesting and useful as a wand of bull's strength.

Ooh. Brutal. Daniele is lucky you weren't in on the first judging round! :)

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014 aka Darkjoy

This is a good item, far better than the one it replaced.

Andoran RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Dementrius

Erik Mona wrote:
Dementrius wrote:

I'm finding it hard to get excited about this one. The problem is that enhancement bonuses aren't sexy - you can get them anywhere. It's about as interesting and useful as a wand of bull's strength.

Ooh. Brutal. Daniele is lucky you weren't in on the first judging round! :)

And I forgot to add "...but it's still better than my attempt!", and that's why mine's languishing in the losers list getting picked to pieces. ;)


This item is dull, dull, dull.

It mimics not only the MIC format, but many of the least interesting items in the MIC. It honestly feels like an unimaginative copycat of items in the MIC, just wioth Str instead of (say) healing. It's price is clearly wrong, it's description is actually a hinderence to it being used by the people most likely to want it, and it has nothing but dull bonuses. I am shocked it's here.

A fun versin of the same idea would give bonuses to all weapon attacks and damage in one round, say +2, +4 or +6. Then it could be cheaper (and thus of more use to lowe-level fighters), make more of a difference when it did kick in, and make sense for foppish dex-based fitghers who are more *likey* to want to wear it.

As it is, just blah. I am actiuvely dissappointed


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

What type of action to activate? Traditionally wondrous items are a standard action which makes the 1 charge use a bit lame.

Seems a bit boring and too fiddly to me.

Well done getting through round 1.

Cheliax RPG Superstar, Contributor aka Leandra Christine Schneider

It says swift.

Star Voter 2013

I agree with Byers. When I read the name of this item I thought 'this should be cool, I really like that name', but the name has nothing to do with what the gloves do. To me an innapropriate cool name is worse than a boring name that tells you what it does.

An interesting modification of gauntlets of ogre power, though I have to admit I winced a little that an enhancement bonus item was considered more original than those of us who committed the 'cardinal sins'.

That said, if it was priced a little better I could imagine this item would see actual use in a game. Honestly if I read this in a book and hadn't been competing against it the only problem I would have had with it would be the name.

Andoran RPG Superstar 2008 Top 8

Congrats! An interesting item idea at the least. It performs in a new and innovative way, which I like; something different.

I'm quite surprised to find another Contender from Sarasota, much less another entrant. Spend much time at the Dark Side?

As I said, congrats and good fortune in Round 2.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 aka Qor

Joseph Yerger wrote:

Congrats! An interesting item idea at the least. It performs in a new and innovative way, which I like; something different.

I'm quite surprised to find another Contender from Sarasota, much less another entrant. Spend much time at the Dark Side?

As I said, congrats and good fortune in Round 2.

Thanks, and the same wishes to you!

Small world, isn't it? I've stopped by Dark Side once or twice, but only to look around. I'm still new to Sarasota, moving here back in July for work.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Yeah, this one seems to me too much like the general MIC formula of "take a normal magic item and give it three variations and then call it a day." And the relation of the description is weak.

Andoran RPG Superstar 2008 Top 8

Qor wrote:
Joseph Yerger wrote:

Congrats! An interesting item idea at the least. It performs in a new and innovative way, which I like; something different.

I'm quite surprised to find another Contender from Sarasota, much less another entrant. Spend much time at the Dark Side?

As I said, congrats and good fortune in Round 2.

Thanks, and the same wishes to you!

Small world, isn't it? I've stopped by Dark Side once or twice, but only to look around. I'm still new to Sarasota, moving here back in July for work.

Contact me off list if you are looking for a game or any such, I currently have an opening if you are interested.
Spoiler:

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

Ernest Mueller wrote:
Yeah, this one seems to me too much like the general MIC formula of "take a normal magic item and give it three variations and then call it a day." And the relation of the description is weak.

Interesting. I hate that approach in the MIC but the same alarm didn't goo off for me here. I tend to play a lot of fighters, so this appealed to me as a relatively diverse low-level fighter item that would add a lot of fun to combats.


I'm amazed your MIC alarm didn't go off. This thing screams "viperblade/acrobat boots/amulet of tearsd/et al" rip-off to me. worse, the only part of this that is a new idea is done badly.

Still my least favorite item by a long shot.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter 2013 aka Forever Man

I like this one. I think 3E Gauntlets of Ogre Power lack the . . . well *OGRE POWER* of the old 1st edition ones - and lack the flavor as well. I think this is an excellent example of how stat enhancing items should be handled.

I do however, strongly agree with Grimcleaver about the sympathetic nature of magic. What next? Fishing waders of Dexterity? ;^}

- DM

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

Well, I haven't wasted much time with the MIC, honestly. My campaign's been on hiatus since shortly after it came out and the first few flick-throughs were not impressive.

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