After reading Pathfinders #2, I think this has one of the best god write-ups I have ever seen.
I want Paizo to do a Pathfinders Chronicles: Deities and Demigods of Golarion.
I think this could be a great book and then put something else in Pathfinder. Am I the only one who thinks this or are there others that agree with me?

Well, according to James Jacobs [read chats summaries of previous weeks, big-long posts in #pathfinder tread], we are going to see write-ups like these at the rate of 2 gods per Adventure Paths, which means 4 gods a year. It should therefore take 5 years to cover them all, since there are 20.

Now, this doesn't prevent from doing another book about : the pantheon, interractions between gods, lesser powers, other beliefs (like druids, atheists[spelling?], philosophical ideas[there should be someting about this in the gazetteer] ), the cosmology/outerplanes/planar travelling, zodiacs/fortune-telling, etc.

But I'm not sure we will get write ups like Desna's faster than 4 per year. Otherwise, what would they put in the PF books? ;p

It could be something they cover deeply in a PHB/campaign style book once they figure out the whole 3.5e vs 4e thing.

Otherwise, what would they put in the PF books? ;p

More Golarion Goodness™

Yeah take it out of pathfinder make a whole book because i think it will sell

And put somthing else in the pathfinder, im sure they have plenty of ideas

Yeah take it out of pathfinder make a whole book because i think it will sell

And if that's part of their devilish* plans? To emprison us into continuing our subscriptions, because we don't want to miss a single God's write-up? And to have us continualy kneeling before them begging for more?

Or what if reading all those uber-goodnessest Gods write-ups at once could be bad for our health? They might actualy be caring for us after all!

If Pathfinders and Pantheons would be

a) written by Sean and the guys who did the 2e Faiths and Powers for the Realms, and chock full of such goodies

Or

b) written as the result of Sean chained to a computer, with Willow feeding him (slave girl outfit optional)

It would rock.

I'd like to see a short omnibus type article with just a few paragraphs on each of the Golarion dieties and their interactions. The RotRL players guide and Burnt Offerings leave too much undefined, IMHO.

I'm playing a cleric of Erastil, having a blast, making a lot of it up as we go, but it would be kind of funny to find out at the end of the AP that I've got a 15th level heretic.

Yeah, I can see the problem of undefined deities. Whilst its cool as you're free to make up whatever you want, its not quite the same as finding a way to champion your faith.

I like to read about deities, I like to choose the one that best suits me, and often have a rivalry with another player. I also like oddities, like the Paladin of Wee Jas concept, they can provide quite unique PCs.

As a DM I also like to get churches and cults involved in plots. Whilst I can say this one roughly equates to Talos, its not doing Paizo and Pathfinder justice, especially if there's a humbinger of an idea in there that just begs to be played out.

So, in all a vote for greater detail on the deities, leaving the detail for Pathfinder as planned. OF course this could be in the gazetteer...someone come by and confirm this please!

{I'd like to see a short omnibus type article with just a few paragraphs on each of the Golarion dieties and their interactions.}

For the record, I'd be up for that. Plenty of room to leave hints about bigger things, plenty of room for tweaking later. After all, the deity writeups in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer by yours truly were only 3 paragraphs long but were packed with goodies. To conserve space I took out all the vowels. :)

I was just very impressed with the pathfinder god write up in two and want to see an entire book with write ups like that one. I have read all the 3rd ed god books from WOTC and a few from other companies and I think that was one of the best write ups and i want more than 4 a year.

I was just very impressed with the pathfinder god write up in two and want to see an entire book with write ups like that one. I have read all the 3rd ed god books from WOTC and a few from other companies and I think that was one of the best write ups and i want more than 4 a year.

I agree w/ everything you just said. However, I think it might be unrealistic to expect Paizo to come up w/ a whole book like this, so early in Golarion's setting. I suspect we need a more critical mass of players invested in the setting before they commit (financially) to something like that.

Sean's earlier post about an article w/ 3 paragraphs each per 20 gods, on the other hand, could easily fit in an upcoming Pathfinder issue.

But I hear you, man. I don't want to wait for up to 5 years to get all the deity info. Hopefully there's a happy medium between what we fans want (everything, and now!) and what Paizo can financially produce for us.

I was really starting this to ask if anyone besides me would be interested, and it looks like almost everyone who would subscribe to chronicles would be interested.

I would love to see such a book and I would definitely buy one. Having 2 deities a year is killing me. My group likes to know the backgrounds and stories of the deities they are venerating. Perhaps a few quasi-deities, hero deities, or regional deities could be included?

Well, I checked old summaries of tuesdays chats in #Pathfinder tread and Paizo Staff (can't recall who exactly, probably JJ) said the Gazetteer, which will be out in a few months, will include short write-ups about all Gods.

Question!

Which of the Pathfinder deities are considered greater deities and which ones are considered intermediate deities, lesser deities, or demigods?

I'd like to find out the Divine Ranks of all the Pathfinder deities, as well.

Question!

Which of the Pathfinder deities are considered greater deities and which ones are considered intermediate deities, lesser deities, or demigods?

I'd like to find out the Divine Ranks of all the Pathfinder deities, as well.

You can determine the power level of a given diety by looking at their total number of domains. Greater deities have five (which are the core 20 and Camazotz, so far), intermediate would have four domains (such as Demon Lords, Archdevils, and Empyreal Lords), minor would have three (as can be seen among many of the racial deities written up in Gods & Magic). I don't know if we've seen any demigods, though the technical definitions of these have not been named in Pathfinder yet, so there may be no intermediate level and just greater, lesser and demi.

I would love to see such a book and I would definitely buy one. Having 2 deities a year is killing me. My group likes to know the backgrounds and stories of the deities they are venerating. Perhaps a few quasi-deities, hero deities, or regional deities could be included?

It's four actually, 2 per AP, 2 AP's a year. For example 2009 will yield Saranrae, Rovagug, Iomedae and Asmodeus.

right until AP5 we have:

Desna
Lamashu
Abadar
Zon-Kuthon
Calistria
Cayden Caildean
Sarenrae
Rovagug

For december we will have:

Iomedae
Asmodeus

Any input in which ones will be covered in the following AP?

I decided to go through my notes and see if I could make a list of deities sorted by the number of domains they have to see if that accurately corresponded to their power. While all of the major, statless deities do indeed have five domains, I discovered that Achaekek (who is statted and noted as not being a major deity) also has five. So do the totem spirits of all of the Shoanti quahs and the ancestral spirits of the stone giants. 4 domains seems to mainly be the purview of archfiends, empyreal lords, and the like, with a few lesser deities sneaking in. There also seem to be minor deities with three domains and a few demigods with two. Note that this list was made from some of my notes and may contain a few errors.

I'd honestly be interested in an official clarification of which deities fall into which general groupings of power. I'm fairly sure that I've seen a few individuals on the giant list referred to both as demigods and gods at different points, but I don't have a quote on hand at the moment to back that up.

Edit: To answer a different question, I just found confirmation that Erastil would be in #32. I also found a post from James saying Gorum would probably be in # 35.

I remember JJ or somebody saying the Elemental Lords are demigods, as are lesser fiend and celestial nobles...

Any input in which ones will be covered in the following AP?

For Kingmaker? I believe Erastil and Gorum were the ones named for that AP. One of the two(I can't remember which) was explicitly mentioned as having his article done and turned in recently.

Yeah, it's Erastil.

They're gods. The rest doesn't really make a difference, does it? Neither do "divine ranks". If it is more than a godlike being (i.e. Archfiends and -angels) or demigod, no mortal can ever hope to kill one, anyway (nothing beyond demogod status will ever get stats).

There's no simple pecking order there, either. You can't just go "Lamashtu is 15, Desna is 17, that means Desna can just go and rip Lamashtu to pieces."

There's essentially three categories of god on Golarion.

Deity: A deity doesn't have a stat block because they can't be killed by mortals and things that need stat blocks to do stuff. Deities grant their worshipers 5 domain choices.

Demigod: This is a less powerful god; it has a stat block (generally from about CR 26 to 36 or thereabouts), and can be killed by mortals. Demigods generally offer 5 domain choices.

Planar Ruler: This category includes demon lords, the horsemen of the apocalypse, arch devils, elemental lords, empyrial lords, and the like. These creatures are generally as powerful as demigods (CR 26–36), but only grant their worshipers 4 domain choices.

EDIT: There's actaully a 4th category. The Great Old Ones/Outer Gods like Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth do exist in Golarion, but they don't generally care about their worshipers. Those who worship them follow the Old Cults and they get access to the domains of Chaos, Destruction, Madness, Rune, and Void, IIRC; their domain choices don't change depending on which specific creature they worship since clerics of the Old Cults have more in common with clerics who don't worship deities than those who do. BUT! This category's a weird one and sort of exists outside of the Deity/Demigod/Planar Ruler triad, so it usually goes uncommented upon.

This category's a weird one and sort of exists outside of the Deity/Demigod/Planar Ruler triad, so it usually goes uncommented upon.

And why is that? I'm sure many start to write about it, but one typo and.... Yum yum yum!

There's essentially three categories of god on Golarion.

Deity: A deity doesn't have a stat block because they can't be killed by mortals and things that need stat blocks to do stuff. Deities grant their worshipers 5 domain choices.

Demigod: This is a less powerful god; it has a stat block (generally from about CR 26 to 36 or thereabouts), and can be killed by mortals. Demigods generally offer 5 domain choices.

Planar Ruler: This category includes demon lords, the horsemen of the apocalypse, arch devils, elemental lords, empyrial lords, and the like. These creatures are generally as powerful as demigods (CR 26–36), but only grant their worshipers 4 domain choices.

Thanks for this clarification JJ, it really helps. May I ask where local/racial/minor deities like Grundinnar fall on this scale?

James Jacobs wrote:

This category's a weird one and sort of exists outside of the Deity/Demigod/Planar Ruler triad, so it usually goes uncommented upon.

And why is that? I'm sure many start to write about it, but one typo and.... Yum yum yum!

It's because the Lovecraft stuff is somewhat polarizing for fans; it's not something that everyone enjoys in their fantasy RPG games, and so we're trying not to put too much emphasis on this part of the game. Although the fact that I quite like this stuff in fantasy RPGs means that there's more emphasis than, say, on guns in the game (another very polarizing element among fans).

James Jacobs wrote:

There's essentially three categories of god on Golarion.

Deity: A deity doesn't have a stat block because they can't be killed by mortals and things that need stat blocks to do stuff. Deities grant their worshipers 5 domain choices.

Demigod: This is a less powerful god; it has a stat block (generally from about CR 26 to 36 or thereabouts), and can be killed by mortals. Demigods generally offer 5 domain choices.

Planar Ruler: This category includes demon lords, the horsemen of the apocalypse, arch devils, elemental lords, empyrial lords, and the like. These creatures are generally as powerful as demigods (CR 26–36), but only grant their worshipers 4 domain choices.

Thanks for this clarification JJ, it really helps. May I ask where local/racial/minor deities like Grundinnar fall on this scale?

The local/racial/minor deities are spread out among all three categories. There's no organized way to sort them out.

It's because the Lovecraft stuff is somewhat polarizing for fans; it's not something that everyone enjoys in their fantasy RPG games, and so we're trying not to put too much emphasis on this part of the game. Although the fact that I quite like this stuff in fantasy RPGs means that there's more emphasis than, say, on guns in the game (another very polarizing element among fans).

I, for one, appreciate this. I've always had a significant aversion to the Lovecraft stuff. (It factors fairly heavily into another game I'm involved in, and it always seems pretty invasive.)

When I first heard of some of that working its way into Pathfinder stuff, I was worried, but I've been surprised at how well it's seemed to fit.

So, as far as I'm concerned, keep on doing it how you have been. 8^)

Edit: Apologies for the threadjack. 8^)

KaeYoss wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

This category's a weird one and sort of exists outside of the Deity/Demigod/Planar Ruler triad, so it usually goes uncommented upon.

And why is that? I'm sure many start to write about it, but one typo and.... Yum yum yum!

It's because the Lovecraft stuff is somewhat polarizing for fans; it's not something that everyone enjoys in their fantasy RPG games, and so we're trying not to put too much emphasis on this part of the game. Although the fact that I quite like this stuff in fantasy RPGs means that there's more emphasis than, say, on guns in the game (another very polarizing element among fans).

I still prefer my Unspeakable Theory (of DOOM!)

I, for one, appreciate this. I've always had a significant aversion to the Lovecraft stuff. (It factors fairly heavily into another game I'm involved in, and it always seems pretty invasive.)

I feel the same way about all the dice because I play Yahtzee.

There's essentially three categories of god on Golarion.

Deity: A deity doesn't have a stat block because they can't be killed by mortals and things that need stat blocks to do stuff. Deities grant their worshipers 5 domain choices.

Demigod: This is a less powerful god; it has a stat block (generally from about CR 26 to 36 or thereabouts), and can be killed by mortals. Demigods generally offer 5 domain choices.

Planar Ruler: This category includes demon lords, the horsemen of the apocalypse, arch devils, elemental lords, empyrial lords, and the like. These creatures are generally as powerful as demigods (CR 26–36), but only grant their worshipers 4 domain choices.

EDIT: There's actaully a 4th category. The Great Old Ones/Outer Gods like Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth do exist in Golarion, but they don't generally care about their worshipers. Those who worship them follow the Old Cults and they get access to the domains of Chaos, Destruction, Madness, Rune, and Void, IIRC; their domain choices don't change depending on which specific creature they worship since clerics of the Old Cults have more in common with clerics who don't worship deities than those who do. BUT! This category's a weird one and sort of exists outside of the Deity/Demigod/Planar Ruler triad, so it usually goes uncommented upon.

Thanks for the official clarification, James. I will say I do prefer the 2nd ed. approach of breaking the gods into greater, intermediate, lesser and demigods (I could live w/out Divine Ranks if need be), not b/c I'd need that for scenarios of mortals fighting the gods, but for intra-divine conflicts, which I like to play around w/ in my background material. But if you guys aren't interested in that breakdown for the Golarion gods, I can always come up w/ my own, of course.

I like the CR equivalence for planar rulers and demigods, btw. I use something quite similar!

It's because the Lovecraft stuff is somewhat polarizing for fans; it's not something that everyone enjoys in their fantasy RPG games, and so we're trying not to put too much emphasis on this part of the game. Although the fact that I quite like this stuff in fantasy RPGs means that there's more emphasis than, say, on guns in the game (another very polarizing element among fans).

I gotta say I appreciate this as well. I like Lovecratian elements in some things, but not everything, and I like being able to glaze over its presence in Golarion.

It's still there for those who want it, but it's easy for the rest of us to ignore.

I appreciate statless gods even more, to be honest. I'm still sore about the Lady of Pain even getting an alignment listed in one of the 3.x planar books.

I gotta say I appreciate this as well. I like Lovecratian elements in some things, but not everything, and I like being able to glaze over its presence in Golarion.

It's still there for those who want it, but it's easy for the rest of us to ignore.

To appeal to the most GMs, Pathfinder (both the setting and the RPG) should work as a framework into which GMs can plug (or unplug) various expansion modules: mod_cthulhu, mod_psionics, mod_gunpowder, mod_ponies, etc.

There's essentially three categories of god on Golarion.

Deity: A deity doesn't have a stat block because they can't be killed by mortals and things that need stat blocks to do stuff. Deities grant their worshipers 5 domain choices.

Demigod: This is a less powerful god; it has a stat block (generally from about CR 26 to 36 or thereabouts), and can be killed by mortals. Demigods generally offer 5 domain choices.

Planar Ruler: This category includes demon lords, the horsemen of the apocalypse, arch devils, elemental lords, empyrial lords, and the like. These creatures are generally as powerful as demigods (CR 26–36), but only grant their worshipers 4 domain choices.

EDIT: There's actaully a 4th category. The Great Old Ones/Outer Gods like Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth do exist in Golarion, but they don't generally care about their worshipers. Those who worship them follow the Old Cults and they get access to the domains of Chaos, Destruction, Madness, Rune, and Void, IIRC; their domain choices don't change depending on which specific creature they worship since clerics of the Old Cults have more in common with clerics who don't worship deities than those who do. BUT! This category's a weird one and sort of exists outside of the Deity/Demigod/Planar Ruler triad, so it usually goes uncommented upon.

So, only the Demigods will use the deity/divine rank rules from the SRD? Or will the Demigods be statted using the Epic rules?

So, only the Demigods will use the deity/divine rank rules from the SRD? Or will the Demigods be statted using the Epic rules?

They use the 3e rules. Nothing special I think. Achaekek certainly doesn't have a divine rank or epic feats.

So, only the Demigods will use the deity/divine rank rules from the SRD? Or will the Demigods be statted using the Epic rules?

At this point, none of the deities use the deity/divine rank rules from the SRD, and they're unlikely to in the future; we'll probalby come up with something different (or simply treat their stat blocks as tough monsters, similar to how the Demonomicon articles in Dragon treated the demon lords).

Knightfall1972 wrote:

So, only the Demigods will use the deity/divine rank rules from the SRD? Or will the Demigods be statted using the Epic rules?

At this point, none of the deities use the deity/divine rank rules from the SRD, and they're unlikely to in the future; we'll probalby come up with something different (or simply treat their stat blocks as tough monsters, similar to how the Demonomicon articles in Dragon treated the demon lords).

Interesting... the Demonomicon articles are some of my favorites from DRAGON. Still, I'm importing a few of the Pathfinder deities into my own campaign world, which means they'll get the deity/divine rank treatment... at some point.

Thanks for the information.

On the topic of gods, will gods introduced in other products, such as the cults of Apep, Khepri and Wedjet introduced in the Osirion guide be given domains / alignments / favored weapons, for game use?

My own notions, based on the descriptions and their sample items would be;

Wedjet - NG - Good, Knowledge, Protection, Scalykind, Water (Flail)
Apep - CE - Chaos, Darkness, Destruction, Evil, Water (Falchion)

Khepri - N - Animal, Protection, Strength, Trickery (Hand Axe)

random cult of my own invention
Cult of the Water Serpent (combined Wedjet and Apep) - N - Destruction, Protection, Scalykind, Water (Flail)

On the topic of gods, will gods introduced in other products, such as the cults of Apep, Khepri and Wedjet introduced in the Osirion guide be given domains / alignments / favored weapons, for game use?

My own notions, based on the descriptions and their sample items would be;

Wedjet - NG - Good, Knowledge, Protection, Scalykind, Water (Flail)
Apep - CE - Chaos, Darkness, Destruction, Evil, Water (Falchion)
Khepri - N - Animal, Protection, Strength, Trickery (Hand Axe)

If they are (which I fully support, btw), I doubt they'd get 5 domains. Their brief mention in the companion doesn't give me the indication that they are anywhere near the same power level as the core 20 deities. I imagine they're on par with Hanspur and Gyronna in the River Kingdoms.

And since we're on the subject of deities, if someone worships Shimye-Magalla, what domains and favored weapon would they gain access to? Those of Desna or Gozreh?

If they are (which I fully support, btw), I doubt they'd get 5 domains. Their brief mention in the companion doesn't give me the indication that they are anywhere near the same power level as the core 20 deities. I imagine they're on par with Hanspur and Gyronna in the River Kingdoms.

It's possible, but at least a dozen Giantish, Scalyfolk, Elven, etc. secondary gods have five domains, so it's possible that these older Osirioni gods could also have five domains.

Still, Wedjet could be cut to Good, Knowledge, Protection and Water, Apep to Chaos, Darkness, Destruction and Water.

Apep is the hard one, because Chaos, Darkness, Death, Destruction, Evil, Scalykind and Water all are appropriate, based on the write up of the diety and the sample magic item. Whittling that down to only four Domains is going to be a royal pain, since Chaos and Evil seem to be pretty much required. (Gosh, how much do I hate alignment domains, let me count the ways...)

The Osirion Companion book doesn't even specify that Wadjet, Apep, and Khepri are gods at all; it merely discusses their cult. They could plausibly be demigods, saints or demons, or provide spells to cultists as impersonal forces.

Khepri is a very cool cult though, and Osirion should be crawling with his priests IMO.

The Osirion Companion book doesn't even specify that Wadjet, Apep, and Khepri are gods at all; it merely discusses their cult. They could plausibly be demigods, saints or demons, or provide spells to cultists as impersonal forces.

Khepri is a very cool cult though, and Osirion should be crawling with his priests IMO.

In my game I plan on expanding upon them a bit. I see them not as gods, but ancient, primal spirits of the land, combining traits of the desert, animals and man. Rather than worshiped as individual gods they are worshiped as a pantheon, with veneration due the individual spirits.

The nomadic tribesmen of the desert, the unspoiled ancient Osirion bloodline, still follow the ancient pantheon and seek to protect their ancestors from the marauding theft of the modern ruler. They see the Ruby Prince as nothing more than a half-blood treasure craving usurper.