Not to jack the thread or anything, but I do think a "teach your kid how to play D&D" product line is a good idea. WotC tried it with their novel series (the name of which escapes me), but they never went much beyond that.
For my own kids (ages 5, 6, and 8) I use a much-simplified form of 3.5e rules, the most colorful maps I can find, and of course, lots of minis. They LOVE it, and a game of D&D can keep their attention for hours. Both my sons ACTUALLY ASKED TO BE TAUGHT HOW TO READ just so they could read my "monster books". As a result, they and their sister all read much better than their peers. All three kids' math skills are far beyond their grade level. In fact, we're having a bit of trouble with the local school because the teachers keep trying to hold the kids back!
I'm saying all that not to brag, but simply to attest that there are HUGE benefits to teaching your kids how to play D&D. I'm amazed no company has taken a greater interest in producing products for them.
Hint, hint, Paizo...
In fact, we're having a bit of trouble with the local school because the teachers keep trying to hold the kids back!
WTF? O.o
*brain seizes, mind boggles*
My 5 year old minion, I mean daughter, has a frost dragon plushy named Coldy. I plan on introducing her to RPGs in a few years.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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My son and I play. My daughter thinks she plays.
Playing D&D with a 2 and 1/2 year old
Her: It is dinosaur?
Me: No, it's a dragon.
Her: Can I can hit dinosaur?
Me: It's a copper dragon honey. He's a good guy.
Her: I dice (takes d20 and pops it in her mouth, takes it out and throws it across the room rolling a 20).
Her: I hit dinosaur?
Me: Yes, you hit the dragon. You want to roll to confirm the crit and then roll for damage?
Her: I can go castle?
I tell ya. I really gotta wait till she gets older....
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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In fact, we're having a bit of trouble with the local school because the teachers keep trying to hold the kids back!WTF? O.o
*brain seizes, mind boggles*
Don't get me started ... I say, don't get me started!! ... ahh too late
My son entered Junior K reading at a grade 3 level. End of the year the teacher phoned and said "Do you know he's reading at a grade 3 level?" I said "Yes"
My son entered Senior K reading at a grade 3 level. End of the year the teacher phoned and said "Do you know he's reading at a grade 3 level?" I said "Yes"
My son entered Grade 1 reading at a grade 3 level. End of the year the teacher phoned and said "Do you know he's reading at a grade 3 level?" I said "Still!! What the hell have you guys been doing with him for the last three years?!!"
In fact, we're having a bit of trouble with the local school because the teachers keep trying to hold the kids back!WTF? O.o
*brain seizes, mind boggles*
Not hold them back as in keeping them in 1st grade a year longer.
I meant holding back as in insisting that my daughter (who can read adult-level novels) must only read books written at the 1st-2nd grade level.
Is that pathetic or what?
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We've been lucky. When I transferred to my new unit we moved into an AMAZING school district.
Our problem hasn't been with the school, its been with my son. He's advanced.
Me and my wife know it. His teacher knows it. The gifted education teacher knows it. The problem?
My son doesn't care that he is.
They tested him TWICE to place him in some advanced areas. He refused to complete the test both times.
When I questioned him about it? "I like the teacher I have."
His grades started slipping some so when I asked him why? "Oh, I know how to do it daddy so I don't need to write it down."
That is when I thought maybe he was having problems. So, I talked to the teacher and she confirmed that he does know the curriculum but instead of doing his work he helps the other kids that are struggling with it. When she asked him why he wasn't completing the assignment he said the same. "I already know that but *so-and-so* doesn't so I helped him instead." and she watched him. He was showing all the other kids at his table what they needed to do then would sit back down.
I don't know what to do. The kid needs to be challenged but doesn't want to leave his friends behind.
He's back up to all A's now, we've been trying to keep him interested.
Damn. I really did get off topic.
Ummm...yeah. Paizo needs to decide or something...
Damn. I really did get off topic.
Ummm...yeah. Paizo needs to decide or something...
heh. Sounds like a great kid.
So what's it going to be, Paizo? 3.5e? 4e? 3.Paizo? All three maybe? Are you going to be pioneers and start an line of child-oriented RPG products?
Can you at least send all our brilliant children free stuff so "they" can play with it? ;)
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heh. Sounds like a great kid.
Thanks.
So what's it going to be, Paizo? 3.5e? 4e? 3.Paizo? All three maybe? Are you going to be pioneers and start an line of child-oriented RPG products?
Can you at least send all our brilliant children free stuff so "they" can play with it? ;)
Yeah, I'd love to see a kid line, and umm...yeah "they" would play with it. With parenteral participation...supervsion of course. Safety first and all.
In fact, we're having a bit of trouble with the local school because the teachers keep trying to hold the kids back!WTF? O.o
*brain seizes, mind boggles*
"No child left behind" also means that no child can get ahead either. Otherwise, the whole class is left behind.
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In fact, we're having a bit of trouble with the local school because the teachers keep trying to hold the kids back!WTF? O.o
*brain seizes, mind boggles*
Not hold them back as in keeping them in 1st grade a year longer.
I meant holding back as in insisting that my daughter (who can read adult-level novels) must only read books written at the 1st-2nd grade level.
Is that pathetic or what?
I'm not sure of your financial situation, so I don't know how well this works for you. Have you checked into local private schools? When I was in High School my parents transferred me to the local catholic school, and my grades drastically improved. This was because of the better teacher to student ratio. Obviously private does not automatically equal better, but it might be worth looking into. If you don't think you can afford it, talkto them about anyscholarship programs they may have.
I hope this helps, and if nothing else keep her reading at home.
GoodLuck
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"No child left behind" also means that no child can get ahead either. Otherwise, the whole class is left behind.The stated purpose behind NCLB is to close the achievement gap between high- and lower-performing demographics.
There are two ways to close a gap.
One of them involves 'mainstreaming' the 'exceptional' children very much in the style of Harrison Bergeron, by making sure that the smart kids don't do well and ruin the curve for everyone else.
The other involves shooting anyone with an IQ above or below 100. :)
Most likely we'll do what we always do, change the definitions to make the 'gap' disappear through the magic of statistics.
Yeah, I'd love to see a kid line, and umm...yeah "they" would play with it. With parenteral participation...supervsion of course. Safety first and all.
Oh yes, I have been very diligent in making sure that the kids aren't exposed to anything inappropriate in that Kim Possible show they watch. It's not like I would watch it otherwise...
Ahem.
What do you think? Assuming the third Pathfinder Adventure Path, Second Darkness, remains 3.5, will you stick around? I know most of you are as in the dark about fourth edition as we are and I understand that it's too early to make a serious call. But how is the 4.0 hype treating you these days? Do you plan to start up a new 4.0 campaign on day 1?
What do YOU want Paizo to do?
Eric - I haven't read the 27 pages of entries in this thread, so I'm probably about to parrot a few thousand posts. Bottom line: As long as Pathfinder stays 3.5E or 3.75E, I'll remain a subscriber. I highly suspect I'm not alone.
What do you think? Assuming the third Pathfinder Adventure Path, Second Darkness, remains 3.5, will you stick around? I know most of you are as in the dark about fourth edition as we are and I understand that it's too early to make a serious call. But how is the 4.0 hype treating you these days? Do you plan to start up a new 4.0 campaign on day 1?
Erik,
I will continue with my pathfinder subscription as long as it is in a format that I can use (3.5, the more I read about 4e the less likley a workable 3.75 option seems).
So far most of what I have read about 4e has turned me off to it, with only a few things that I thought sounded positive from my POV, so it seems unlikley that 4e will ever become my primary game of choice, I certianly will not be starting a 4e game up on day 1... I will likely buy the core books for 4e at a later date (when I can find them used), and I could see my self playing in somebody elses 4e game at some point in the future (just like I could see myself playing in somebodies Rolemaster, Runequest, or Champions game at some point in the future, it is unlikley but possible), but I have no real desire to be a 4e DM. Thus things like 4e adventure paths don't realy intrest me other then as possible idea mines, and frankly the subscription is too expensive for something that has as its only use that I might swipe an idea from it now and then.
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Thus things like 4e adventure paths don't realy intrest me other then as possible idea mines, and frankly the subscription is too expensive for something that has as its only use that I might swipe an idea from it now and then.
Snicker. And I am just the opposite in some ways. I've been tired of 3.5 for some time. When SW Saga came out I saw a number of really annoying things fixed and immediately thought "why don't they do this to Dnd?" Now they are. I'm likely switching to 4.0 right away, so the current Pathfinder's aren't as interesting as the first 4.0 one.
All in all I think Paizo ought to make the effort to post generic enough information in their products (or conversions) for awhile so either could be used. It's just smart business.
The other option is to pubically encourage members of these boards to post conversion information in some acceptable manner.
-Pete
Chief Technical Officer
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Erik:
I don't know if this has already been covered anywhere else, but I gather that paper-shuffling is still going on to the extent that you (Paizo) still haven't seen the OGL (as of time of posting, now renamed SGL) yet.A couple of hours before this post, on the 'Coming Out of the Closet' thread here on the Paizo boards:
Actually, we *still* haven't been given the rules. Or, for that matter, the OGL.May I take it that the third Pathfinder Adventure Path ('Second Darkness') is now almost certain, due to the time constraints of the editting/play-testing process, to end up as a 3.5 product?
As I've mentioned previously, we have come up with some clever solutions to allow us to postpone that decision.
Though we haven't yet been given the rules, we know some people who have had them for a while, so—should we decide to go 4E—we can enlist folks with 4E experience to help us along faster.
Also, just in the general process of things, we're nailing down the story first, and not worrying so much about the mechanics yet. (And when we do see 4E, this means we'll be able to decide pretty quickly whether or not the new rules will let us tell the story we want to tell.)
We'll tell you as soon as we can... and hopefully, that will be shortly after we get the rules.
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For my own selfish reasons, I would rather you stick with the 3.5 and continue the line with a fresh perspective. I might also add that there were some things that never really got finished. The enviromental books for one! No forests? No jungles? No Mountains? What the heck?
The idea of a 3.75 set of books sounds very cool as well.
I might also add that if you do get the 4.0 OGL, and it meets your satisfaction, ask the harder question about being able to participate in the "E-Gaming Table or whatever they are calling it now" I assume the OFFICIAL Wizards of the Coast D&D adventures sold in paper are available to subscribers in Electro-Format but if 3rd party companies are cut out of this, players may decide to not pick up Paizo or other companies printed products because they can't load it in the 4th Ed. programs for playing.
Just a thought.
Zux
It's ironic that the first post in this thread still holds true 3.5 months later. ;)
I might also add that if you do get the 4.0 OGL, and it meets your satisfaction, ask the harder question about being able to participate in the "E-Gaming Table or whatever they are calling it now" I assume the OFFICIAL Wizards of the Coast D&D adventures sold in paper are available to subscribers in Electro-Format but if 3rd party companies are cut out of this, players may decide to not pick up Paizo or other companies printed products because they can't load it in the 4th Ed. programs for playing.
One option would be to work with a 3rd party Virtual Table Top. RPTools with MapTools comes to mind as a current Java Based app. Battlegrounds RPG Edition would another. Then again moving to a '3rd party' could be made a violation of whatever OGL like trickery Wizards/Hasbro formulates.
Personally I think Wizards is shooting themselves in the foot with their version of a virtual table top. There record with software based D&D products, in house or contract, is fairly bad. They are going to easily be outstripped in short order. I'd almost say they've lost that race before they've begun.
Our gaming group (all over 40) will not switch to 4.0. Our children will likely be introduced to D&D through 3.5
3.5 is flexible enough to keep us entertained for the rest of our gaming lives. We would support Pazio in releasing 3.5 products.
.
For my own kids (ages 5, 6, and 8) I use a much-simplified form of 3.5e rules, the most colorful maps I can find, and of course, lots of minis. They LOVE it, and a game of D&D can keep their attention for hours. Both my sons ACTUALLY ASKED TO BE TAUGHT HOW TO READ just so they could read my "monster books".
My boys (6 and 4) are the same way. They can't wait to read the books and play the game.
I've got a bunch of Dragon and Dungeon mags, but I was never a subscriber. I'm currently playing in a PbP Rise Of The Runelords game, so I don't see myself purchasing that any time soon. I'm also uncertain as to the continued viability of my F2F D&D group, 4.0 seems to have picked the scabs off of some underlying issues...
That said, I don't plan on moving to 4.0 (although I haven't ruled out DMing it, the previews haven't impressed me), so if Paizo stays with 3.x there is a good chance that I will support it.
The other option is to pubically encourage members of these boards to post conversion information in some acceptable manner.
I'm having trouble envisioning a future where this doesn't happen. :)
I would guess that as soon as 4.0 is out then a bunch of us are going to start working on a big conversion project for any and all APs. I expect that I'll run all the paths with the version of D&D used to write them or else convert to another game system entirely, but I think that a) it will be fun and b) it will help us wrap our brains around the new rules (regardless of which direction we're converting).
So no matter which version is used in the third and fourth paths, I think it's pretty much a sure thing that adaptations to the other version will be available on these boards, if only in fan-created form.
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The other option is to pubically encourage members of these boards to post conversion information in some acceptable manner.So no matter which version is used in the third and fourth paths, I think it's pretty much a sure thing that adaptations to the other version will be available on these boards, if only in fan-created form.
Ah true, but it might be interesting for Paizo to do as they have with True20 and C&C where they've specifically outsourced it to folks interested to do the work and then posted that on their site. It would likely save them time/work because they can focus on new product and also stop answering the same question on these forums over and over and over. :-)
-Pete
"No child left behind" also means that no child can get ahead either. Otherwise, the whole class is left behind.
My wife is a teaching assistant at a local middle school. Worked in the Special Ed program for 17 years before transferring to Remedial Reading would disagree with that.
My daughter is a Special Ed teacher at different middle school, and would disagree with that.
And my 13 year old 8th grade, ie. middle school, grandson who is driven by his parents to the high school to take 11th grade math (he tested out of 9th grade math at the end of 6th grade, and took 10th grade math during the 7th grade) would *violently* disagree with that.
It *really* does depend on the school district, and how they implement the policy.
Don't generalize, please.
-- david
Papa-DRB
Grognard
My better half and me
Folks...
What do YOU want Paizo to do?
Continue putting out the quality products Paizo is known for, whatever version.
We play a bastardized (can I say that?) 2nd ed anyway, so I have to convert everything I use either way. Granted, I have a nice quick system down for converting 3.5 almost on the fly at this point, and it's sounding like 4.0 might be too alien to do that. Point being, I won't be able to just pick it up and go either way.
Paizo's Dungeon was what got first me and then my husband back to official D&D products and content after a LONG break where we used material from any other system we could get our hands on. We had abandoned TSR when 2nd ed products were still being produced because, quite frankly, we found them boring. I didn't even know about WotC, 3rd ed launch, and the OGL until I started trying to figure out why "d20" was suddenly plastered on everthing I was looking at.
So I got curious about what D&D had been up to, bought a couple of issues of Dungeon which turned into a subscription to that and Dragon as well, and fell in love with D&D all over again. Not just RPGs, but D&D specifically. It was the quality of the stories that Paizo consistently printed in Dungeon that did that for me. And it was to help me run the games from Dungeon that I bought so many 3rd ed WotC books.
So as long as Paizo keeps doing that, I'll keep buying no matter what the version.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 8
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In fact, we're having a bit of trouble with the local school because the teachers keep trying to hold the kids back!WTF? O.o
*brain seizes, mind boggles*
Not hold them back as in keeping them in 1st grade a year longer.
I meant holding back as in insisting that my daughter (who can read adult-level novels) must only read books written at the 1st-2nd grade level.
Is that pathetic or what?
I was that kid. The public education system of Florida wanted to keep me in Kindergarten because I was "not as emotionally developed" as my peers. I was raised in a reading family, I'd read the Hobbit solo by the time I was 5 (I'd had it read to me a few times prior, but I did read it solo). I had aced everything, although my cursive is still abysmal.
My parents were livid and so transfered me to a different school. Later on when we lived I Georgia, I changed schools almost yearly because there wasn't anything there for me, I wasn't challenged or learning in class, so I opted to change.
There are options, you just need to keep her involved in her own process, largely by helping her continue wanting to learn. Challenge her at home if you must. I hated workbooks, but we did them, I got better (but my cursive never improved, I honestly don't think I could write the entire alphabet in cursive, either as capital or lower case).
I feel like I beat the system to many degrees, but that was because my parents not only were pro-active, they cared and helped me continue improving.
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Oh yes, I have been very diligent in making sure that the kids aren't exposed to anything inappropriate in that Kim Possible show they watch. It's not like I would watch it otherwise...Ahem.
Mmmm....Kim Possible....
<eyes glaze>Mmmmm....
Speaking of which; what is that animal that Ron Stoppable keeps as a pet?
"Is that an osquip in your pocket, or are you pleased to see me...?"
Regardless of what edition you guys choose, I will continue to purchase your products as long as the quality continues. Modifying adventures to suit the ruleset that I am currently using has never been a big deal to me.
For my own selfish reasons, I would rather you stick with the 3.5 and continue the line with a fresh perspective. I might also add that there were some things that never really got finished. The environmental books for one! No forests? No jungles? No Mountains? What the heck?
Just a thought.
Zux
Mountains:
Volcanoes, Ice tipped mountains, yeti, mystics, Giants, Mineral based creatures (Living copper ore that resents miners anyone?)...Forests:
Ecology's of kilometer high redwoods, ironwood forest and the tribes who protect them, fey (good and bad), Tropical jungles, diseases, living medicines, mythic totems...
Yeah I could do with a few more environmental books.
Oh yes, I have been very diligent in making sure that the kids aren't exposed to anything inappropriate in that Kim Possible show they watch. It's not like I would watch it otherwise...Ahem.
Mmmm....Kim Possible....
<eyes glaze>
Mmmmm....Speaking of which; what is that animal that Ron Stoppable keeps as a pet?
"Is that an osquip in your pocket, or are you pleased to see me...?"
I was that kid. The public education system of Florida wanted to keep me in Kindergarten because I was "not as emotionally developed" as my peers. I was raised in a reading family, I'd read the Hobbit solo by the time I was 5 (I'd had it read to me a few times prior, but I did read it solo). I had aced everything, although my cursive is still abysmal.
My parents were livid and so transfered me to a different school. Later on when we lived I Georgia, I changed schools almost yearly because there wasn't anything there for me, I wasn't challenged or learning in class, so I opted to change.
There are options, you just need to keep her involved in her own process, largely by helping her continue wanting to learn. Challenge her at home if you must. I hated workbooks, but we did them, I got better (but my cursive never improved, I honestly don't think I could write the entire alphabet in cursive, either as capital or lower case).
I feel like I beat the system to many degrees, but that was because my parents not only were pro-active, they cared and helped me continue improving.
Note: emphasis mine
Actually, that is one of the best reasons to keep young kids back (Kindergarten, 1st or 2nd grade). Assuming the diagnosis is correct the child is almost always better off being held back since it prevents them from being emotionally and maturity-wise behind his peers which is a big contributor to learning difficulties early on. The couple of people that I know who this happened to (my brother and best friend) ended up much better off. Keeping the child back gives them the opportunity to advance grades at the same level of maturity as their peers which makes their school experience much better.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 8
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I was that kid. The public education system of Florida wanted to keep me in Kindergarten because I was "not as emotionally developed" as my peers. I was raised in a reading family, I'd read the Hobbit solo by the time I was 5 (I'd had it read to me a few times prior, but I did read it solo). I had aced everything, although my cursive is still abysmal.
My parents were livid and so transfered me to a different school. Later on when we lived I Georgia, I changed schools almost yearly because there wasn't anything there for me, I wasn't challenged or learning in class, so I opted to change.
There are options, you just need to keep her involved in her own process, largely by helping her continue wanting to learn. Challenge her at home if you must. I hated workbooks, but we did them, I got better (but my cursive never improved, I honestly don't think I could write the entire alphabet in cursive, either as capital or lower case).
I feel like I beat the system to many degrees, but that was because my parents not only were pro-active, they cared and helped me continue improving.
Note: emphasis mine
Actually, that is one of the best reasons to keep young kids back (Kindergarten, 1st or 2nd grade). Assuming the diagnosis is correct the child is almost always better off being held back since it prevents them from being emotionally and maturity-wise behind his peers which is a big contributor to learning difficulties early on. The couple of people that I know who this happened to (my brother and best friend) ended up much better off. Keeping the child back gives them the opportunity to advance grades at the same level of maturity as their peers which makes their school experience much better.
Except in my case, I wound up being more emotionally "older" and mature than my peers. I never got along with my own age group until I was a senior in High School and was forced too. I always have gotten along better with those older than me. Guess I'm the exception rather than the rule.
*Yes I know that it is exceptionally unlikely that Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro will care very much if Paizo go 4th Edition or not, but I can always dream.
Scary that we share the same dream! And what a good dream it is...
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Y'know, one of the earliest publications I have is an issue of "White Wolf" magazine, in which Lisa Stevens responds to a Letter-to-the-Editor about being a little publisher in a sea of big publishers like White Wolf. And she gives the little publisher some good advice about sticking with a solid product and getting your name associated with quality.
That's still good advice, Lisa, even now, years after you gave it to Peter.
I have nothing intelligent to add to these fine posts, but my opinion probably doesn't matter anyway. Paizo could offer socks full of dirt for sale and I'd buy them.
-Amber S.
For the most part I will go with Paizo FTW.
The major factor I see being an issue for myself and some of my players in my group is the monetary value of it all. It isn't cheap raising a family of gamers or playing with people who like new and shiny.
4E is going to have multiple core books. Three (Players Guide, Monster Manuel, Dungeon Master Guide) every year that they continue on with this edition. This is no longer a rumor but a WotC stated fact. It will happen and when it does I have to decide if I'm going to buy everyone of those Core books because it has a race or class that my players wanted in the beginning and will not get until players handbook X comes out or because a setting I play in has rules taken from that book.
And since I may or may not be spending money on these books along with my players then I have to see what that leaves in my monthly budget for third-party products such as Paizo. Granted when it comes to quality Paizo has always had my money even when I didn't. But even after that I have to see if I will need miniatures or item cards or a hundred other cool accessories for my game that I could live without but refuse to do so because I've enjoyed my game with them so long.
And none of this includes the D&D insider that they will produce. Yet another item that may or may not be vying for my bank account.
But in the end I love all the flavor and thought that is behind Pathfinder and Gamemastery so I will most likely continue to support them what ever the 'Edition War' may be. The only problem I will really see is I know of at least three Gaming stores in different cities in Texas that after 4E drops they will not be carrying 3.x third party products because they did this when 3.5 dropped and lost big. So online will be my friend till at least August and maybe even later.
... Paizo could offer socks full of dirt for sale and I'd buy them.
O.O Do they do that? I'm so in.