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Fortress of the Stone Giants (GM Reference)


Rise of the Runelords

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Silver Crusade

My group skipped the Storval Stairs. They teleported back to Fort Rannick, then entered the mountain range from the other side.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

How'd they manage that, Fromper? Climbing up to the Plateau isn't easy or quick.

Silver Crusade

Misroi wrote:
How'd they manage that, Fromper? Climbing up to the Plateau isn't easy or quick.

Fly spells (and wings, in one case) to get up there. But yes, it was a trek through the wilderness.

I think I had them run into a stone giant patrol as a "random" encounter when they got close to their destination. I could have had more encounters, but we're a slow group, so I didn't want to bog down our sessions with non-plot relevant fights.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Modules Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
the Lorax wrote:


It's probably too late to be of any use to you, but I'd had the same thoughts, I was more thinking about it for all of the camps in the Valley of the Black Tower, and then worked back towards the battle at Sandpoint.

Er, well, I did not read your reply in time for the big battle. To be honest, I did not look at these boards much lately, as we played the Sandpoint battle (in which my players did an amazing job) back in April already, and since then we had only two more sessions recently. I had my hands and my head full with other things in the meantime, so I can only apologize for not appreciating all that advice here more.

From looking over your ideas, I think it might come handy if my players get back to the idea of setting the various clans against each other - for the moment, they abandoned that idea and went to the back door of Jorgenfist.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Modules Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

So, what would you recommend in the following situation: The PCs managed through generous castings of Silence and Invisibility Sphere to avoid most dangers up to the Forgefiend (area C5). They fought him and the headless lord, so Mokmurian knows that they are there. But now, they need to rest, and plan to do so in the Forgefiends room (which is probably the best choice, as the giant would have to squeeze through the tunnels to enter).
I was thinking that he would dimension door to the lamias, rest there, learn new spells, and bring in the Lamias via Dimension door. Letting his backup come in via the Chamber of Reduction seems a bad idea to me. But he would need to learn the spell three times to pull this off, four if he wants to have one as his backup way of escaping.
My reasoning was that Big M would not want the whole fortress to know that a few puny humans tricked most of the defenders and defeated several of them.


I'm reading through the anniversary edition before I run this campaign, and I have a question about the stone giant raid on sandpoint. It states that event occurs during a later round of the raid. Is a round of the raid equivalent to a combat round?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That's exactly what that means, Xauriel. It means that your party will have a multiple round battle on their hands, and that they may end up splitting their forces in order to deal with the hot spots that pop up around town. I actually made a blown up version of the Sandpoint map and affixed it to poster board so my players could see what was going on at any time. It also helped figure out how far each group could move, and when certain events would happen.


ok thanks, when I first thought about it I thought sandpoint was totally screwed, but I just looked at the event map again and maybe not...we shall see


I would like your opinion and expertise on an extension I've been writing for the end of chapter 4.

Basically it's the war for Jorgenfist and the Library.

The AP states that most giants disband when Mok dies. But thanks to several very nice submission on this forum, and a sentence on the AP saying how the library is likely to attract very significant interest in all Varisia if not Golarion when rediscovered... I realized all the potential for very nice roleplay in dealing with the consequences of this rediscovery. It is entirely optional to the campaign since it doesn’t prevent the PC to reach the runeforge and Xin-shalast in any way, but I like it.

I’ll give you what I came up with so far, be careful it contains spoiler from last chapters:

1) At the death of Mokmurian, several giant tribes want to claim the library as theirs. While some, like Conna if she’s alive, will be reasonable (or intimidated) and not prevent the PC to use it, many consider it as a forbidden place and an heritage for the suffering of their ancestors to the hand of the rune giants, and want it untouched, buried or worse. At the beginning it’s all diplomatics and eventually beating the crap out of a giant leader or two, but this is Varisia, and may it be by the will of Desna or other gods, some rumors reach Riddleport and the Cyphermages. They instantly mount a convoy of importance, and decide to announce themselves. Since every good political leader has a spy in Riddleport, ambassadors from magnimar and Korvosa also find a way to reach the site. By this time the library is on every good military map of the realm, and electricity starts to fill the air.

2) Karzoug himself, certainly not ready yet to lose its grasp on the library but still filling his mana, sends his very best to deal with the issue : some rune giants (1 to 4 seems reasonable). With enormous might and overwhelming power, they coerce back the army of giant and aim to retake Jorgenfist.

3) Understanding that this is the greatest threat to them all, Korvosa, Magnimar, Riddleport and some dwarf, elves, and Shoantis try to unite. After some skirmishes, all army will gather to settle this once and for all. Not without the PC potentially being inside, Korvosa and Magnimar secretly looking for a way to prevent the other one to reach the library first, and so much more.

4) By the end of the war, it is acknowledged that something is rising beyond the reach of human armies, and the PCs are among the most powerfull adventurers of Varisia therefore they qualify to seek Karzoug and find a way to stop him.

5) chapter 6.

That being said, I’m trying to put some number on each sides.

On the monster side we have : (remember to add many NPCs)
-100 ish stone giants
-30 frost giants
-42 ogres
-some giant and ogre reinforcement like hill giants, taiga giants, couple of storm giants...
-various rocs (2), wyverns (3), dire bears (20), mammoths (10), giant spiders and other big monsters...
-3 dragons (including longtooth) , Karzoug could send one more
-1 to 4 rune giants (those are really terryfing)
-up to 12 lamias
-small bands of orcs, koblods, goblins or lesser creatures… may be 400 mens

On the Magnimarian side I estimated the following (thx the very nice book, Magnimar city of monuments)
-City military : 400 trained soldier and 900 conscripts + a fair share of siege weapons from the navy + 30 Abadar paladins, and led by no less than a lvl 13 priest. (though I may need to keep some at magnimar for law enforcment)
-order of the nail : a dozen lvl 6 to 8 Hell Knights, fully mounted and heavily equipped, with twice as much squires.
-Around 150 fighters from various mercenaries, thugs, criminals, small churches, all looking for a piece of loot.
-25 lvl 6 adventurers of various class
-Mage guild of Magnimar, 18 wizards and sorcerers led by a lvl 15 wiz and a lvl 11 wiz ( !!!!!!!). And they bring 6 stone golems and 25 angelic guardians (lesser brass golem).
-Various conscripts and gards form other cities (including sandpoint) : 300 good men

WOA !
Riddleport should be something like 800 men, less organized but more brutal, and the Cyphermages, (still need more data)

And I still have to add Korvosa and some dwarves, elves, and a couple bands of shoanti barbarians.
It’s gonna be SO epic !

A campaign like ROTRL deserves a good battle don't you think ?


Hey! This question is not at all relevant to combat or system flaws. But about how time in game is the ROTRL campaign take in months or years? How much time has passed since Burnt Offerings to Spires of Xin-Xalast?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Pawns Subscriber

That REALLY depends on your group. My group did no crafting at all, tended to teleport wherever they needed to be, and didn't bother taking a huge amount of time off.

On the other hand, they did spend days at a time just lounging around in Magnimar enjoying their wealth, wandering off on side adventures to Absalom, negotiating peace treaties with the giants, or otherwise wasting time so they definitely weren't a, "Let's go through this as quickly as possible" group.

That being said, according to my campaign journal, I officially started them on 20-Rova-4707 (with the Swallowtail festival on the 22nd), and they defeated the BBEG on 17-Calistril-4708, so that's 4 months, 28 days (150 days total) of game time.

There were PLENTY of opportunities to stretch it out along the way, but my group was just of the, "Did that, what's next?" variety, and I didn't see a need to stretch it out.

Hope that helps!


NobodysHome wrote:

That REALLY depends on your group. My group did no crafting at all, tended to teleport wherever they needed to be, and didn't bother taking a huge amount of time off.

On the other hand, they did spend days at a time just lounging around in Magnimar enjoying their wealth, wandering off on side adventures to Absalom, negotiating peace treaties with the giants, or otherwise wasting time so they definitely weren't a, "Let's go through this as quickly as possible" group.

That being said, according to my campaign journal, I officially started them on 20-Rova-4707 (with the Swallowtail festival on the 22nd), and they defeated the BBEG on 17-Calistril-4708, so that's 4 months, 28 days (150 days total) of game time.

There were PLENTY of opportunities to stretch it out along the way, but my group was just of the, "Did that, what's next?" variety, and I didn't see a need to stretch it out.

Hope that helps!

Thanks that did help! I see you have played this AP to its end, I'm starting this AP tomorrow with obviously "Burnt Offerings" I'm really exited to Gm this adventure, but at the same time nervous. If it isn't much to ask, could you give me some tips on situations, NPCs or encounters. I really want to get everything I can out of this first chapter. I'm playing this campaign one on one. (I'm also playing Anniversary Edition)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Pawns Subscriber

So...

  • Post in the "correct" thread -- this is the GM thread for Book 4, "Fortress of the Stone Giants". If you check, you'll see that each book has its own GM thread.
  • The "Community Created Stuff" thread is massive, but has tons and tons of good ideas.
  • So do other people's takes on the campaign, so definitely read others' campaign journals as you have time.
  • For Book 1:
    - Sandpoint is the heart and soul of the entire campaign. Study the gazetteer. Understand the NPCs and their motivations, and make the town alive, with a wealth of personalities. More than anything else, you have to make it WORTH saving. Too many GMs focus on the negative encounters (the shopkeep, Lonjiku, the Sczarni, etc.) until when push comes to shove and the PCs have to save Sandpoint because they love it, not because they're hoping for some reward, they're willing to do it. Too many GM threads start with, "I have a problem: My party hates Sandpoint so they're letting it be razed to the ground, and I don't know how to get the AP back on track from here."

    - Don't hesitate to add your own NPCs. Most campaigns are made all the richer by the addition of more NPCs, more subplots (people love adding stuff to Chopper's Isle or the Scarnettis).

    - Read the start of Book 2. There are some things about Book 1 you need to know there.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    Does anyone have any experience with using the Unchained versions of Monks and Barbarians in this book? I'm thinking of the Black Monk, his minions, and Enga.

    One of my groups is really strong, and I'm looking for ways to increase the combat difficulty without using 3PP or weird templates.


    For the Black Monk, I'm finding that the Unchained version makes him just a little more robust. For instance, he's supposed to be tripping opponents, so turning him into an UnMonk (with full BAB) is going to ensure more of his trip attempts and AoOs hit. Not to mention the extra tricks the Unchained version gets to help him last more than a handful of rounds.

    Ripnugget replaced Enga for my group, as a natural attack UnBarbarian, full of rage after the players dethroned him and took his sword. While building him up, I found that UnBarb works better for TWF or natural attack builds, while vanilla Barb works better with two-handed weapons, perfect for Enga as she is.


    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Bellona wrote:

    Does anyone have any experience with using the Unchained versions of Monks and Barbarians in this book? I'm thinking of the Black Monk, his minions, and Enga.

    One of my groups is really strong, and I'm looking for ways to increase the combat difficulty without using 3PP or weird templates.

    The Unchained version worked well for my Black Monk and the Harpies. Enga got hit by a Hold Person on round 1 and then killed, so I can't speak to her.

    In particular, giving the Monk Flying Kick helps him get at least one full attack sequence off during the fight. (As my players beat Mokmurian before engaging the Monk, I added a few wraiths to the battle, too.)


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    Thanks for the feedback, folks! It sounds like a worthwhile use of my time to convert them to the Unchained versions. :)

    As for facing M before the BM ... I suspect that at least one group might do it that way too (they just found the start of the cave system, and will probably enter the complex from there and then go deeper). What was the reason for using wraiths (as opposed to juju zombies)?


    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Bellona wrote:

    Thanks for the feedback, folks! It sounds like a worthwhile use of my time to convert them to the Unchained versions. :)

    As for facing M before the BM ... I suspect that at least one group might do it that way too (they just found the start of the cave system, and will probably enter the complex from there and then go deeper). What was the reason for using wraiths (as opposed to juju zombies)?

    Well, besides the flight ability, I could have the wraiths either engage the PCs in the chamber, or glide inside the wall to hit those on the surface, or even cork the entrance to split the PCs in two. And of course, their touch attacks make them dangerous despite the low CR, where a juju zombie might have trouble hitting.

    Two wraiths plus the Monk only enabled him to last for three rounds of combat, so if you want a big fight you'll need to give him some additional help.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    Thank you for the ideas! :)

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Getting ready to start book 4 in a couple weeks, so I'm going to reread this thread from the beginning. I'm excited to get going on the battle for Sandpoint - my wife (the party cleric and our IRL papercrafting diva) has been.making buildings for me all summer so we'll have just about every key location ready to go.


    Hi everyone, I am moving towards the end of this book and the final encounter with Mokmurian, but have a peculiar problem. Our main battlefield controller is a very vain and prideful Aasimar Wind Oracle. As a result, he will absolutely shred all of Mokmurian's fogs. However, the Oracle always makes sure to take credit wherever possible and there were several survivors from the attack, so M will be will aware of the oracle's ability. On top of this. The party just spent a day resting in the black tower, so the bodies they left in the kitchen storeroom below were certainly discovered.

    Due to these circumstances, Mokmurian will have plenty of time to alter his tactics and prepare different spells from his book than what he normally does. He will certainly be aware of the other PCs save the two newest as well due to their fame (A 10 Cav/2 Paladin of Erastil halfling, a 12 abberant sorc halfling and the recently deceased(but M will not know) 5 Bard/3 Rogue/3 Arcane Trickster Halfling) However, I imagine his main concern will be the Oracle.

    I typically do not try to outright kill my PCs at every opportunity but I would love to thoroughly humiliate the Oracle in a battle of magic if possible and render him relatively useless because it would allow us to see a new side of his character before we dive into his pride problems in module 5.

    Do you all have any spell and tactics suggestions? I am not the most experienced with high-level casters so I am open to whatever advice you can give. I am willing to switch out his prepared spells and typical tactics for this.

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    You could just have M target the oracle with disintegrate as his first targeted attack, if there is a good reason for M to think that the oracle is the biggest threat in the group. He's going to cast it on someone, after all - probably two someones. But if you don't want to kill the oracle super-dead in round 1, you could give M access to the Create Pit line of spells. Cloudkill works well with those, or he could go for the Aqueous Orb toilet bowl maneuver. Reflex saves are usually pretty weak for oracles, I think.

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Looks like we're starting this book on Saturday! I'm excited to get going, I feel as though this is where the party starts to get fully drawn into the real story.


    I was actually looking forward to this book the least, but with Ameiko being captured and the general sandbox format, all the characters were really able to come into their own. Let us know how the battle of Sandpoint goes. Our cavalier did not have time to put her armor on in ours so she wore her bed gown and was badly burnt by fire, badly scarring her face/body and losing most of her hair. Considering that her sin is wrath (I have been giving them visions and dreams of their sin since late module 3 to build up that mechanic more now that their individual sins are fairly obvious), it has really added a lot of flavor.

    When my party did the extra chopper's isle fan module, Sandpoint built a base for the party out of the house. Unfortunately they opted to stay there the night before the raid which basically left them one step behind the destruction the entire time. A lot of fun though.

    I think I will get to the M fight next session and have been thinking a lot about spells. I think the first thing he will create a pit before hand and cover it in fog if thats legal and then flesh to stone the oracle when he flies over to clear it. I will do some improvised to figure out where the damage is, but considering his sin is pride, it would be wonderful to see how he reacts to disfigurement. I cannot make this challenge too hard though, I am fine with killing them if that is how I roll, but at this point I have been prepping 1 on 1 sessions for when they try to enter runeforge where they will enter a demiplane to confront their sins, allowing them to get the RAW sin bonus in the runeforge upon successful completion. Due to that, my current goal is to really draw out the worst in them and have them see their weaknesses in these upcoming combats.

    Of course things probably will not go perfectly and I do not want to force anything, so only time will tell. How are you handling the sin mechanic Tusk?

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Brizan wrote:

    I was actually looking forward to this book the least, but with Ameiko being captured and the general sandbox format, all the characters were really able to come into their own. Let us know how the battle of Sandpoint goes. Our cavalier did not have time to put her armor on in ours so she wore her bed gown and was badly burnt by fire, badly scarring her face/body and losing most of her hair. Considering that her sin is wrath (I have been giving them visions and dreams of their sin since late module 3 to build up that mechanic more now that their individual sins are fairly obvious), it has really added a lot of flavor.

    When my party did the extra chopper's isle fan module, Sandpoint built a base for the party out of the house. Unfortunately they opted to stay there the night before the raid which basically left them one step behind the destruction the entire time. A lot of fun though.

    I think I will get to the M fight next session and have been thinking a lot about spells. I think the first thing he will create a pit before hand and cover it in fog if thats legal and then flesh to stone the oracle when he flies over to clear it. I will do some improvised to figure out where the damage is, but considering his sin is pride, it would be wonderful to see how he reacts to disfigurement. I cannot make this challenge too hard though, I am fine with killing them if that is how I roll, but at this point I have been prepping 1 on 1 sessions for when they try to enter runeforge where they will enter a demiplane to confront their sins, allowing them to get the RAW sin bonus in the runeforge upon successful completion. Due to that, my current goal is to really draw out the worst in them and have them see their weaknesses in these upcoming combats.

    Of course things probably will not go perfectly and I do not want to force anything, so only time will tell. How are you handling the sin mechanic Tusk?

    Sounds like you're doing a lot more with the sin point mechanics than I am. I put together a spreadsheet when we were partway through Book 3, with sin & virtue columns for each PC, and awarded points based on our session logs. I did not award many - a PC choice has to be either surprising or extreme to warrant a point - so at this point, none of them have more than 3 points in any one sin or virtue, and they don't know that I'm tracking.

    Interesting that your PCs ended up on Chopper's Isle. My group bought the Glassworks from Ameiko - she had no interest in sinking what remains of her inheritance into rebuilding the factory or in giving up the Rusty Dragon to run it - and turned into into a headquarters. It has been a good way to sop up some of their excess cash, and they're happy to have someplace to call home. I let them hire the Lonjiku family's former butler - fired by Ameiko's father years before - as the major domo: "Manfred Copperworth," bard 4/fighter 1/unchained monk 2.

    Just a few hours until the raid on Sandpoint begins!


    That is a really cool idea. I never really explained what happened to the Glassworks. I guess if Ameiko gave it up, it may have went to Tsuto (our Tsuto has had more char development than most PCs lol), but he is a Black Arrow now. A member of my group is going to GM Jade Regent next, so maybe he will explain it. My party is mainly invested in the Thassilonian aspect so the new set of ruins at the bottom of Choppers isle really appealed to them. They actually hired an archeologist from Riddleport (an ex-cyphermage) to excavate their ruins. I am actually going to scrap the earthquake at the start of module 5 in favor of the archeologist completing his excavation, connecting the two ruins, digging deeper and going missing.

    I have had them have dreams with the sins they had points toward since mid module 3 and then roll will saves to avoid the dreams having them succumb to their sin. I also have the wrath character occasionally go in to rages during combat when a PC dies and she fails a save. I was not originally planning any of it. It just kind of came out organically. I have been thinking about having one of her missing friends from her tragic backstory coming back as an antipaladin of Gorun on the back of some demon-templated pony since all her friends were halfling pony riders, I just need to work out the specifics.

    Is this your gaming group's first AP? It is always fun to bring in other APs if possible and the attack on SP is a good opportuniy to reach out for allies if you did another Varisian AP.

    Also you should look up some of the resources for Sandpoint if you have not already:

    http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ohyk?Sandpoint-Citizen-List

    http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/jcluffmac/media/bWVkaWFJZDoxMjkxNjQ2NDM =/?ref=

    I know people have made statblocks and whatnot too, but I would probably just do straight d20 rolls for most npcs to prevent the action from slowing too much.


    I tried to include a subplot with the Scarnettis trying to muscle in and convince a grieving Ameiko to sell the Glassworks to them (to increase their political and financial power in Sandpoint, seeing as the Glassworks is a major part of the local economy) but my players didn't bite and I didn't force the issue.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    I have a situation which is similar to Stebehil's last year, and I would like some advice from my fellow GMs ...

    My players have decided that the best place to overnight in (the re-named) Jotunfist is down on the library level - which they haven't finished clearing yet.

    The party:
    They are an optimised group of characters. Only 15-point builds, but they are using many options/rulebooks and are generally experienced players. Four PCs, all L 12.

    Specifically: a half-orc invulnerable rager Barbarian (Unchained), a ratatosk menhir savant Druid (party scout), a human Aldori defender Fighter/kensai Magus/Duellist with a monstrous AC, and a human hexcrafter Magus/Cleric/Mystic Theurge (who used the Fate inquisition's spell-like ability to qualify early for the prestige class, something which since became FAQ-illegal but I let it ride).

    Who's still alive from the opposition:
    Jotunfist ground level: everyone but the Black Monk.

    Pit/caverns level: everyone.

    Library level: Mokmurian, one Hound of Tindalos (close to death but healable), and the librarian. No one has messed with the door yet, plus the party does have the password.

    River caverns/small tunnels: some redcaps plus Enga.

    Extras: Lucrecia is around, and she has two minions (a faceless stalker and a will-o'-wisp).

    Not appearing: Longtooth was killed during the attack on Sandpoint.

    Recent events:
    The party got their noses bloodied by the watch tower giants (the taiga giant in particular was a nasty surprise), and retreated to rest. Then they found and looted Longtooth's cave, and went to Magnimar to sell stuff (using the druid's plant teleport ability via a tree which they carefully planted at the bottom of the river-side cliffs). Next, after clearing the two river-side caves, they tried approaching via the small tunnels, got their noses bloodied by Enga (slightly re-built, but still a kobold Barbarian 12) and the redcaps when, and retreated from that point of access. Next, the party sneaked invisibly to the Black Tower and stone-shaped their way into it. They defeated the Black Monk (slightly re-built), and set up camp there. This is when they levelled to L 12.

    The druid then went on a wildshaped reconnaissance mission, met Conna and got her advice. Using Invisibility Sphere and Silence spells, the party sneaked from the Black Tower, down into the pit, and through the southern section of the caverns level. The hour was early enough that no mastadons or bears were awake (so no detection via Scent). Enga was busy patrolling the small tunnels, intent on keeping any more intruders out, so she was not in her room/lair. Basically, the party just walked past every encounter area on the surface and caverns levels and down to the libary level.

    At the start of the libary level they stone shaped a thin wall (with air holes) across the tunnel mouth so as to avoid combat sounds from echoing upwards. They then killed the runeslave hill giant, the stone golem, the headless lord and its hill giant fast zombies, the forgefiend, and two hounds of Tindalos. At one point during the various combats the forgefiend created a wall of stone to block escape through C-4.

    The party then used a combination of flight abilities and stone shape/wall of stone to create a sleeping platform near the 100-foot ceiling of C-5, and propose to pass the night there.

    At some point, Mokmurian will want to go for dinner on the cavern level. He can't miss the dead bodies, new stone walls, blood/ichor on the floors, scorch marks, etc. The chances of Mokmurian's forces unobtrusively detecting the "camp" are good if Lucrecia sets her flying minion to that task (darkvision, good Perception, high Stealth, invisibility).

    So what would be the reasonable response?

    Here's my thinking:
    Mokmurian is likely reluctant to involve the regular army and ambassadors, due to a possible loss of face. I'm considering an ambush in/around C-6 with the lamias, their pets, Lokansir, Galenmir, and maybe the trolls too. Maybe the will-o'-wisp will be observing the ambush invisibly, ready to report back to Lucrecia and Mok. Mok will be in his usual place, but backed up by Lucrecia and her minions, plus Enga. (Lucrecia will be in a support role; if things are going badly then she will leave, and make her own way to Book 6. She's already survived Rannick and Hook Mountain, and the party hates her.)

    With all the spellcasting available, they should be able to get into position quietly overnight, and still have most of their spells ready for the ambush/combat.


    Mokmurian would already know the PCs are there by virtue of the Headless Lord's head informing him of their presence (as well as their battle tactics while fighting him.)


    Perhaps I'm a big softy, but I find that if a number of stone walls appeared in the course of obvious, prolonged battle. It's very possible that M, if even noticing the one 90' or so up the wall, might chalk it up to being just another wall and dismiss it at that. I agree that he should know a great deal about the party from the Headless Lord, but I would give an ambush a low chance of being set up... unless of course some survivor saw the party head up to their campsite and/or someone up there snores. Or if M began systematically repairing the damage done from the battle and returning the rooms to their previous condition. If that were the case, it might be enough of a fun surprise for both the party and whoever is doing the remodel, if they dropped 90' from sleep into battle with whomever that was. It might also prevent what should be a TPK from an ambush. If Enga was enough to cause a retreat, surely the combo of M and Lokansir/Lucrecia/Galenmir and minions will wipe them out.

    It's your game, not mine. Just throwing thoughts out there.

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    My party is making their way to Jorgenfist on phantom steed-back. Next session, after a brief trip to Sandpoint and back via teleport to return the rescued Scarnettis, I expect them to run into the ogre cattle rustlers. The ogres' tactics on p. 195 say that the ogres drop their stolen cattle and attack the party with their ogre hooks, but the art on p. 196 suggests that at least one ogre is about to hit Seoni with a bull - which sounds much more interesting.

    Which leads me to wonder how much damage a bull can do, when swung at a PC by an ogre? My initial idea is that the first hit would do 3d6 + strength mod, based on the Damage from Falling Objects table, and would decrease by 1d6 for each additional hit as the bovine body became less, well, solid (sorry for the squick). So the second hit with the same bull would do 2d6 + STR, the third would be 1d6 + STR. After that, the ogre would drop the bull and attack with its ogre hook.

    Any suggestions?

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