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Of course, BM hits them with the breath weapon, and nobody made the 27 Will save to avoid the wisdom damage and confusion, so wackiness ensued.Is the save for the Breath of Madness really Will based? I've also seen Mother of Oblivions save have it as Reflex instead. Also 2 of my players have boots of mire so they have a +2 save vs. poison, but its only vs. Fortitude saves. You might think its like a Gorgons breath weapon (poison gas=fort. save), but the breath of madness is also a mind effect, so is that why its will? I'm running this encounter after Easter so it would be good to know for certain how to rule it.
I just checked, and the anniversary edition of the adventure path specifically says it's a will save, in Black Magga's stats on page 406. I'm not sure where else you may have seen her stats that didn't specify that - maybe the original version of the book didn't say it?
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Quick question about the Skull Ripper and the order of operation with grapples and the behead ability.
So:
Round 1) Hit with claw, do claw damage, make grapple check, success, do constrict damage.
Round 2) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, apply pinned condition, do constrict damage and claw damage.
Round 3) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, continue pin, do constrict and claw damage, do behead special ability.
Does this sound right?
Quick question about the Skull Ripper and the order of operation with grapples and the behead ability.
So:
Round 1) Hit with claw, do claw damage, make grapple check, success, do constrict damage.
Round 2) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, apply pinned condition, do constrict damage and claw damage.
Round 3) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, continue pin, do constrict and claw damage, do behead special ability.
Does this sound right?
Yep. Looks right. The attack is "made as part of a grapple check to maintain an existing pin", so it doesn't get to do it 'til round 3.
Too bad. It's nice and gruesome, and I'm sure the look on your players' faces would be priceless...
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Quick question about the Skull Ripper and the order of operation with grapples and the behead ability.
So:
Round 1) Hit with claw, do claw damage, make grapple check, success, do constrict damage.
Round 2) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, apply pinned condition, do constrict damage and claw damage.
Round 3) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, continue pin, do constrict and claw damage, do behead special ability.
Does this sound right?
Yep. Looks right. The attack is "made as part of a grapple check to maintain an existing pin", so it doesn't get to do it 'til round 3.
Too bad. It's nice and gruesome, and I'm sure the look on your players' faces would be priceless...
Yeah, even when it fails, it's scary. When I ran it a few weeks ago, I got the party paladin down to 2 HP on the behead attempt, and my description of it trying to rip his head off had them all in a panic to kill the thing THAT ROUND before it could try that again. Of course, it was already heavily damaged by then, too, so they did manage to kill it and free the pally before he died, but that sense that it was a tough fight that they barely overcame before another party member was killed made it lots of fun.
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That's my takeaway as well, Fromper. It's most likely to grab a fighter or some other big beatstick that has a stack of hit points, so its constrict ability probably won't kill the character. In my game, I was describing its tactics pretty gruesomely, as it grabbed the elven fighter soundly by her neck with one pincer in the first round and by the other in the second. It didn't get a chance to do a third, but it was certainly likely to tear her head off if it got that far.
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Quick question about the Skull Ripper and the order of operation with grapples and the behead ability.
So:
Round 1) Hit with claw, do claw damage, make grapple check, success, do constrict damage.
Round 2) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, apply pinned condition, do constrict damage and claw damage.
Round 3) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, continue pin, do constrict and claw damage, do behead special ability.
Does this sound right?
Does the attacker get to do constrict damage straight away on a successful grapple?
From this link, it seems like the attacker's turn is over after the grapple until next round
Yes, because the constrict special ability states that a creature does constrict damage on a successful grapple check.
Yes, because the constrict special ability states that a creature does constrict damage on a successful grapple check.Quick question about the Skull Ripper and the order of operation with grapples and the behead ability.
So:
Round 1) Hit with claw, do claw damage, make grapple check, success, do constrict damage.
Round 2) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, apply pinned condition, do constrict damage and claw damage.
Round 3) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, continue pin, do constrict and claw damage, do behead special ability.
Does this sound right?
Does the attacker get to do constrict damage straight away on a successful grapple?
From this link, it seems like the attacker's turn is over after the grapple until next round
It's the reason my first player death was to the giant crab in book one.
Hopefully it was the first player character death, not the first player death! :)
Hopefully it was the first player character death, not the first player death! :)
Well the player in question chose that as the perfect moment to quit the campaign (valid reasons - they have kids and home life got busy - she was going to wait until the book was done and let me know but the circumstances led to it being a very sad day)
So... :(
Looking for advice about how to play The Graul Farm. I get it's a Hills have Eyes/Texas Chainsaw Massacre type deal and I want to play up the atmosphere big time.
But I'm struggling to get the reason why these twisted freaks booby-trapped their own house. Seems kinda paranoid that they would do that, especially as they are mostly homebodies according to the text. If they trapped the surrounds or left the house for a few weeks then it would also be understandable that they might come back and see what they caught. But, having active traps while they're in the house seems weird. Any ideas welcome, otherwise I might just do away with them.
Think of them as sick practical jokes on other family members. The ogres have enough hit points to survive the traps, and if they don't, extra meat at dinner!
As someone thats lived in the deep backwoods, and seen first hand the crazy s%*$ people away from civilization do to protect their property, frankly I'm surprised their aren't more traps!
An example if you want
One of our "neighbors" (it was a mile and half to the nearest house) accidentally killed himself when he got drunk and mistakenly went through the back door he'd rigged up with a shotgun.
So yeah crazy s~$& happens in the backwoods
Hmm sounds like a bit of a hard sell. I read your awesome account of the farm, did your players show any signs of being confused as to what was going on? Or did they treat it as a technical exercise in trap detection and avoidance?
I could just plough on and hope they don't ask questions. Either that or get rid of them and play up the horror of the Black Arrow bits that remain...
My players simply accepted that the Grauls were utterly sick and twisted people, and didn't question the traps at all. After Shiro got hit in the head by one, they proceeded VERY cautiously through the house.
I just asked Raesh's player, and she says she thought of them as stereotypical inbred hillbilly mooks, and the trapped house just fit her preconception of yokels "trappin' the house to keep the revenuers away".
She said it made perfect sense for the main entrance to be trapped, and for there to be an obviously well-used side path that the yokels used.
So the main entrance is trapped, and there are certain paths through the house that they never take because they trapped them in case of intruders. (Don't forget they're within a few miles of a fort full of rangers who would happily slaughter them all.)
Make sure there exists a "safe" route through the house that the Grauls take. I'm pretty sure there is one.
So in short, the one player I can chat with at this hour of the morning said the house made perfect sense to her.
EDIT: Shiro just popped online. Let me see what he says...
OK, I don't have his permission to use his direct quotes, but I'm going to anyway...
"I will admit to thinking that traps in the house they lived in was stupid. It would have made more sense to have traps in the cornfield OR to not live in that house and to have it to keep prisoners / torture people. The traps didn't protect anything, they were just there to piss with the characters."
So Raesh's player found them "normal", Shiro's player found them stupid.
Thats why Hookmountain is one of only two adventures that gave me nightmares, I was like "wait, don't I know these people?"
Another example, one family near us would only eat raw meat, no vegetables
Also because my dad can both melt down silver and make gunpowder (he was a chemistry teacher) these brothers we got our poultry and rabbits from wanted my dad to make them silver bullets so they could take him out in the woods and hunt him because they were convinced he was a Werewolf, damn hippy beard I suspect (he got one of them drunk and asked why the silver bullets?) As you can imagine there was a falling out, however thanks to Facebook the brother that spilled the beans found dad 20 years later wanting to know if he could give marital counseling to him and his mail order wife lol best part is my dad helped them thru it and 10 years later still married, and yes he did apologize for the whole wanting to hunt him episode.
The other brother is still as bat s%&@ crazy as we was then, still living in the northwoods somewhere hunting "werewolves"
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Looking for advice about how to play The Graul Farm. I get it's a Hills have Eyes/Texas Chainsaw Massacre type deal and I want to play up the atmosphere big time.
But I'm struggling to get the reason why these twisted freaks booby-trapped their own house. Seems kinda paranoid that they would do that, especially as they are mostly homebodies according to the text. If they trapped the surrounds or left the house for a few weeks then it would also be understandable that they might come back and see what they caught. But, having active traps while they're in the house seems weird. Any ideas welcome, otherwise I might just do away with them.
I would observe, in addition to the intervening dialogue with NobodysHome, that the house as the pc's encounter it may not be its normal condition (dangerous use of the word normal.) The Grauls have Black Arrow prisoners and have reason to believe there may be intruders - the Grauls know Kibb has escaped and might find someone to aid the rangers. So they may have activated their defenses on the assumption they may be needed.
Additionally, even in days before the Kreeg attack on Fort Rannick, the Kreegwood was a dangerous place what with ogres, a fort of hostile rangers, etc. The Graul house is therefore more similar to a military base than the split-entry across the street. So again the Grauls may live with the assumption that violence may befall them at any time and trap their lair accordingly.
Keep in mind, no one likes the Grauls (even the Grauls themselves.) They're inbred, mutated offspring of a necromancer who every sentient being within 500 miles would just as soon see exterminated. Being widely despised in a world inclined to violence as a solution to any problem can change your thinking about where traps should and should not be placed.
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Looking for advice about how to play The Graul Farm. I get it's a Hills have Eyes/Texas Chainsaw Massacre type deal and I want to play up the atmosphere big time.
But I'm struggling to get the reason why these twisted freaks booby-trapped their own house. Seems kinda paranoid that they would do that, especially as they are mostly homebodies according to the text. If they trapped the surrounds or left the house for a few weeks then it would also be understandable that they might come back and see what they caught. But, having active traps while they're in the house seems weird. Any ideas welcome, otherwise I might just do away with them.
I would observe, in addition to the intervening dialogue with NobodysHome, that the house as the pc's encounter it may not be its normal condition (dangerous use of the word normal.) The Grauls have Black Arrow prisoners and have reason to believe there may be intruders - the Grauls know Kibb has escaped and might find someone to aid the rangers. So they may have activated their defenses on the assumption they may be needed.
Additionally, even in days before the Kreeg attack on Fort Rannick, the Kreegwood was a dangerous place what with ogres, a fort of hostile rangers, etc. The Graul house is therefore more similar to a military base than the split-entry across the street. So again the Grauls may live with the assumption that violence may befall them at any time and trap their lair accordingly.
Keep in mind, no one likes the Grauls (even the Grauls themselves.) They're inbred, mutated offspring of a necromancer who every sentient being within 500 miles would just as soon see exterminated. Being widely despised in a world inclined to violence as a solution to any problem can change your thinking about where traps should and should not be placed.
I personally feel that all toilets should be trapped.
Who needs those things, anyway?
Lived without one for awhile as a kid, I don't recommend it, a toilet is the one thing I can't live without, still can't use an outhouse 30 years later
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I learned you do not want to ruffle through Latrecis or Nobodyshome's bathroom cabinets, sounds like a good way to lose a hand :-)
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Amateur efforts, that. I mean, just a hand? Tsk.
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I have an 11 year old girl that watches entirely too many Spy shows and movies design all my household traps, really keeps me on my toes, especially April Fool's Day :-)
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You should watch the episode of the X-Files titled "Home" beforehand as it's pretty much the direct inspiration for the Graul house. Will help you get into character!
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Can I ask how the Ioun Stone found in the Skulls Crossing model works?
The pale lavender and lavender-and-green stones work like a rod of absorption, but absorbing a spell requires a readied action, and these stones cannot be used to empower spells.
By empower, do they mean that the spell energy cannot be released to cast a spell? If so, then all the pale lavender ioun stone does is absorb spell levels, but you have to spend your turn with a readied action waiting for it and hope you're targeted by a spell? That seems...not awesome.
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What am I missing here? Area A8, "Mammy's Room" is listed as a CR 11 encounter in the Anniversary edition. But it's just Mammy at CR 8 and 3 zombies at CR 1/2 each, far shy of CR 11. The terrain seems favorable for the PCs, so am I missing a trap or something? 4800 + 3*200 = 5400 xp, still closer to CR 8 than 9 and only about 40% of what a CR 11 encounter should be. I'm thinking about buffing her up to level 10, and maybe strengthening the zombies, so my PCs don't just walk in and murder her in a round or a round and a half.
Similar question for area A15, "Kennel." 3 CR 2s does not a CR 7 make.
I've looked through this thread and searched the forum, but am not seeing any comments on these CRs, so I'm thinking I'm missing something. But can't for the life of me figure it out.
She's more like a CR9.
I made the encounter into a CR 11 - my players should encounter it this Tuesday (depending on if we play this week due to RL stuff).
What I did:
Give her 3 zombies the fast and host body templates - each zombie now has a flesh eating cockroach swarm inside of it that will burst out when killed - the zombies are meant to go down fast - the swarms are much more horrible for my players at least.
Added 3 pickled punks (Bestiary 4) to the encounter - these will start to thrash on round one - falling and breaking open - if you've not looked up these monsters... well enjoy - they fit the theme of the room and house perfectly.
Added one more zombie to the encounter. Made a riding dog/ogrekin/dread zombie (dread zombie from the advanced bestiary) taking inspiration from others in the suggestions thread to have a really horrible 'offspring' to seal the deal on the squick factor of this house.
Stats are here:
Baby Rex CR 8
XP 4,800
Riding dog ogrekin fighter 3 (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 87, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 2 204)
N Medium undead (animal)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +8
Aura command zombies, unnatural aura (undead)
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 13, flat-footed 17 (+3 Dex, +7 natural)
hp 70 (5 HD; 2d8+3d10+19)
Fort +8, Ref +8, Will +3 (+1 vs. fear); +2 bonus vs. channeled energy
Defensive Abilities channel resistance +2; Immune undead traits
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee bite +15 (1d8+8), bite +15 (1d6+8), slam +14 (1d6+8)
Special Attacks brain consumption
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Statistics
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Str 27, Dex 16, Con —, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 13
Base Atk +6; CMB +14; CMD 27 (31 vs. trip)
Feats Improved Natural Attack (bite), Lunge, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Perception), Toughness, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus (bite)
Skills Acrobatics +10 (+18 to jump), Perception +8, Stealth +9; Racial Modifiers +4 to survival when tracking by scent
SQ armor training 1
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Special Abilities
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+4 to Survival when tracking by Scent +4 to Survival when tracking by Scent.
Brain Consumption (DC 22) (Ex) Death attack by eating the brain of grappled creature.
Channel Resistance +2 +2 bonus to save vs. Channel Energy.
Command Zombies (Su) Automatically command zombies within 30 feet.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Immunity to Ability Drain Immunity to ability drain
Immunity to Bleeds You are immune to bleeds.
Immunity to Death Effects You are immune to death effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Energy Drain Immune to energy drain
Immunity to Exhausted You are immune to the exhausted condition.
Immunity to Fatigue You are immune to the fatigued condition.
Immunity to Mind-Affecting effects You are immune to Mind-Affecting effects.
Immunity to Nonlethal Damage You are immune to Nonlethal Damage
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Physical Ability Damage Immune to ability damage to your physical abilities.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Immunity to Stunning You are immune to being stunned.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Lunge Can increase reach by 5 ft, but take -2 to AC for 1 rd.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Undead Traits Undead have many immunities and use Cha in place of a Con for all effects.
Unnatural Aura (Undead) (Su) Animals do not willingly approach the undead.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.
This adds up to a CR 11 encounter EXP wise - and by adding the 3 swarms/3 punks/1 dread zombie dog - you give alot of fodder to let mammy get some spells off - I plan on having her DDoor out and use 'command undead' in the yard - where I'll have other zombies ready to go ... I was thinking 1d4 rounds for them to surface and then perhaps 1/round until she is killed.
What am I missing here? Area A8, "Mammy's Room" is listed as a CR 11 encounter in the Anniversary edition. But it's just Mammy at CR 8 and 3 zombies at CR 1/2 each, far shy of CR 11. The terrain seems favorable for the PCs, so am I missing a trap or something? 4800 + 3*200 = 5400 xp, still closer to CR 8 than 9 and only about 40% of what a CR 11 encounter should be. I'm thinking about buffing her up to level 10, and maybe strengthening the zombies, so my PCs don't just walk in and murder her in a round or a round and a half.
Similar question for area A15, "Kennel." 3 CR 2s does not a CR 7 make.
I've looked through this thread and searched the forum, but am not seeing any comments on these CRs, so I'm thinking I'm missing something. But can't for the life of me figure it out.
She's more like a CR9.
I made the encounter into a CR 11 - my players should encounter it this Tuesday (depending on if we play this week due to RL stuff).
What I did:
** spoiler omitted **...
Further changes:
A5 - Playpen:
Add 1 level of fighter to each ogrekin - HP are now 36 each - give each weapon focus shortspear for +9 to hit. Now CR 5
A12 - no change needed
A 15 - add 2 levels of fighter to two of the ogrekin - add 1 level to the last.
Here is the statblock
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Hograth CR 4
XP 1,200
Male human ogrekin fighter 4 (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 2 204)
CE Medium humanoid (giant, human)
Init +5; Senses low-light vision; Perception +6
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Defense
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AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 13 (+1 Dex, +3 natural)
hp 46 (4d10+20)
Fort +8, Ref +2, Will +2 (+1 vs. fear)
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee shortspear +11 (1d6+8)
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Statistics
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Str 22, Dex 13, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 6
Base Atk +4; CMB +10 (+14 grapple); CMD 21 (25 vs. grapple)
Feats Cleave, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (shortspear), Weapon Specialization (shortspear)
Skills Climb +11, Intimidate +3, Perception +6, Survival +5, Swim +10
Languages Common
SQ armor training 1
Other Gear shortspear
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Ecology
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Environment any
Organization solitary of family (2-6)
Treasure npc gear (spear, other treasure)
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Special Abilities
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Cleave If you hit a foe, attack an adjacent target at the same attack bonus but take -2 AC.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
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Jeppo CR 4
XP 1,200
Male human ogrekin fighter 4 (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 2 204)
CE Medium humanoid (giant, human)
Init +5; Senses low-light vision; Perception +8
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Defense
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AC 15, touch 12, flat-footed 13 (+1 Dex, +1 dodge, +3 natural)
hp 46 (4d10+20)
Fort +8, Ref +2, Will +4 (+1 vs. fear)
Weaknesses light sensitivity
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee shortspear +10 (1d6+6)
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Statistics
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Str 22, Dex 13, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 6
Base Atk +4; CMB +10 (+12 bull rush); CMD 22 (24 vs. bull rush)
Feats Cleave, Dodge, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack
Skills Climb +11, Intimidate +3, Perception +8, Survival +5, Swim +10
Languages Common
SQ armor training 1
Other Gear shortspear
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Ecology
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Environment any
Organization solitary of family (2-6)
Treasure npc gear (spear, other treasure)
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Special Abilities
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Cleave If you hit a foe, attack an adjacent target at the same attack bonus but take -2 AC.
Improved Bull Rush You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when bull rushing.
Light Sensitivity (Ex) Dazzled as long as remain in bright light.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
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Sugar CR 3
XP 800
Male human ogrekin fighter 3 (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 2 204)
CE Medium humanoid (giant, human)
Init +5; Senses low-light vision; Perception +1
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Defense
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AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 13 (+1 Dex, +3 natural)
hp 36 (3d10+15)
Fort +9, Ref +2, Will +4 (+1 vs. fear)
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee shortspear +8 (1d6+5)
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Statistics
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Str 21, Dex 13, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 6
Base Atk +3; CMB +8; CMD 19
Feats Cleave, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack
Skills Acrobatics +1 (-3 to jump), Climb +9, Swim +9
Languages Common
SQ armor training 1
Other Gear shortspear
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Ecology
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Environment any
Organization solitary of family (2-6)
Treasure npc gear (spear, other treasure)
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Special Abilities
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Cleave If you hit a foe, attack an adjacent target at the same attack bonus but take -2 AC.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
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Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.
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Our group is currently working its way through The Hook Mountain Massacre and we wanted to contribute something to this thread, as it has been very useful reading everyone's comments. We are playing the adventure with Billy Watford’s Dundjinni maps that have been printed out on cardstock and glued to foamboard, which has made for a nice visual journey through the module. We have also taken a good amount of photos to show how the encounters in Hook Mountain have played out, and these are in an album on our Facebook page for any to peruse. We hope they are of some help to those who are running the adventure, and thank you to everyone else who has contributed so far!
What I did:
** spoiler omitted **...
Some really good stuff there Chorik, totally going to make the Graul scene awful. Adding your stuff to some of the ideas in this thread will really crank the squick factor to 11.
What I did:
** spoiler omitted **...
Great tips, thanks Ckorik.
When I ran it this weekend I elborated on it a little to hopefully heighten the ick factor even more:
I had loads of jars lining the shelves of Mammy's room, all with little name tags on them - but only girl names. Remember, Mammy doesn't like competition! I made 6 of them Pickled Punks - my players were seriously grossed out when some of the pickled infants suddenly started to move about in the jars and bursting out of them.
As a side note, when the PCs found the Graul farm they spotted a now faded and cracked sign on the path leading up the house, saying: "Hello there traveller! A joyful welcome to the farm of the Levensen family!", with flowers and garlands painted on it and four waving stick figures - a mom, dad and two children. Needless to say, these original owners of the farm, the Levensens, were the zombies waiting on Mammy in her room. Sucks to live in ogre country! :)
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Hey guys - I really need your help fast - I'm running my next session in 5hrs and I missed that Lucretia was in B36 when they went through there! I only noticed the B36a-h section, so they've cleared the first floor now and I've no idea where to put her now. The only options I see atm (not good options) are to either have her make some noise from B36 that attracts them to go back there, or she is somewhere else in the building or grounds - within the building only the map room B32, the watchtower B35 or the storeroom B33 appear to be empty.
Another lesser problem is that they cleared the caves of the shocker lizards, but what effect does this have on the ogres? does it kill some of them (how many?)?, are some of them just a bit hurt now (how much?)? 14 shocker lizards would be quite powerful together! (2 from B14, 12 from B37)
Also there's only going to be 3 PCs tonight and they've been given xp as is there's 6 of them all along as there usually is 6 of them (though there's going to be 7 of them tonight including all the NPCs) and the healer isn't going to be present, and they're all lvl 8, so should I remove 1-2 class lvls, apply the young template and so on to decrease CR by 2 or as there's 7 of em (6 after the lucretia fight) still should I leave as is? In tonight's party there's a Fire focused arcanist, a melee Samurai with a dinosaur pet and Fighter with 1 lvl of Magus for the 1/day +1 to the wep, then there's also the 4 NPC ranger/ranger hybrids too
Thanks for the help guys
P.S. has anyone else had a problem on firefox with logging in due to faulty certificates? (on chrome now)
For reference with the 4 NPCs their APL becomes (8+8+8+7(Kaven)+6(Vale)+8(Jakardros)+6(Shalelu))/7 +1(6 or more PCs)=8.28 and with just 3 NPCs the APL is (8+8+8+6+8+6)/6+1=8.33 (weirdly higher due to only adding +1 for 7 PCs)
I haven't played through this yet, I'm almost at the end of Skinsaw Murders. That said, you could always have had her out conducting business somewhere away from for Rannick. Perhaps she had to talk to the hags, or perhaps she was negotiating to get another casino going somewhere.
More advice needed. My party snuck in past the waterfall and the shocker lizards straight to Lucrecia. She's engaged them in conversation and she has revealed Kaven as a traitor. I ended the session with Vale and Jakardos being stopped from killing Kaven (yet) and the job offer from Mokmurian.
In close quarters and outnumbered 8-1 or so, there seems to be two choices.
1) she stays and is swiftly slain (which might happen anyway if she rolls badly on initiative).
2) she dim doors away and alerts the ogres and I can't see how that ends well for the party.
Is there a third option I'm missing?
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More advice needed. My party snuck in past the waterfall and the shocker lizards straight to Lucrecia. She's engaged them in conversation and she has revealed Kaven as a traitor. I ended the session with Vale and Jakardos being stopped from killing Kaven (yet) and the job offer from Mokmurian.
In close quarters and outnumbered 8-1 or so, there seems to be two choices.
1) she stays and is swiftly slain (which might happen anyway if she rolls badly on initiative).
2) she dim doors away and alerts the ogres and I can't see how that ends well for the party.Is there a third option I'm missing?
Not quite sure why Kaven should be spared. Evidence seems pretty strong he's fighting for her or will be as soon as actual fighting starts (I'm assuming initiative is next.) Though if the argument is, kill her first, him second, then that makes sense.
And I'm not sure how her fleeing to the ogres is bad for the party (okay it is in comparison to simply staying put and dying...) But the party has to face the ogres eventually. How long did they think they could stealthily move from room to room killing everyone without anyone noticing? This is D&D - er... Pathfinder - if you sneak in the back door, you run into the high level enemies first. High level types have low level types as minions to die for them. Please expect the High Level types to get the low level types to die for them no matter when or how you encounter them. :)
Are you interested in having her as a recurring villain? Someone the pc's simply loathe? Dim door is the answer. My group came in from the top and took out the ogre leadership right away. Lucretia took command and led the ogres more effectively than their own leaders would have, used her illusion powers to try to bait the pc's into an ambush, used her spells to keep them alive longer, etc. and when the ogres were all dead, she fled to Hook Mountain. She's alive to this day - most likely next appearance: Sandpoint, during book 5, looking to take out the Scribbler and prevent the group from finding Runeforge.
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My players have taken to using Dimensional Anchor on my foes. Curse them.
Of course I recently read up on DA and found it is a ranged touch attack. Always double-check spells, even if it slows down combat! I might have still had Xanesha around to mess with them if I'd done that! (Probably not though. They wanted her dead. Big time.)
As for Lucretia, they used Locate Creature on her. The Halfling REALLY wanted her dead. Lucretia didn't stand a chance against the swearing nun of doom. ;)
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I've run into that order of Nuns before:-D
I used to work at a local thrift store (Saint Vincent DePaul) and these three nuns would come in once a week, super adorable old ladies, that swore like George Carlin "what the F*#& is the price of this?" "What kind of s#%! is that?" "Tell that little kid to shut the f#@$ up" just a few of the things they would say :-)
Asked one of them once if God allowed that, she said "you wouldn't believe what I've given up for God, I'll swear if I f~&%ing feel like it!"
I loved those little old ladies, reminded me of grandma :-)
Kaven is being spared because I think they want to question him.
My main concern is going in the front the ogres are sufficiently distracted and/or so far apart that it is unlikely you will need to fight more than a dozen at a time. If 'Lucy' gets away the whole enclave will be on high alert, and will know where they are coming from. That could easily lead to an overwhelming encounter. Maybe I'm being mean or giving 'lucy' more influence than she actually has.
Kaven is being spared because I think they want to question him.
My main concern is going in the front the ogres are sufficiently distracted and/or so far apart that it is unlikely you will need to fight more than a dozen at a time. If 'Lucy' gets away the whole enclave will be on high alert, and will know where they are coming from. That could easily lead to an overwhelming encounter. Maybe I'm being mean or giving 'lucy' more influence than she actually has.
I don't know that Lucretia fleeing to the ogres should lead to anything more severe than the pattern you suggest for a frontal assault. Keep in mind you control the rate at which the Ogres respond.
Where is she likely to retreat to? Probably to Jaagrath? That's almost as far away from the pc's as she can get. She needs some time to persuade him to take action, then he needs to do something. What does he do? Head down there himself? Send Dorella and Harlock? How long does it take for them to get there? Do they stop and pickup other ogres on the way? What kind of alert is really put in place?
Keep in mind the ogres are not well organized militarily - Chaotic evil creatures are not known for their crisp discipline. So I suggest that the Ogres respond somewhat haphazardly, which shouldn't lead to any more dense encounters than any other assault path except the various groups will be encountered where they find the pc's, instead of where they are originally located. Also, how the pc's move will also change the pattern of encounters - unless Lucretia stays in contact with them, she really can't guide the ogres in. So they can only head to the location of the last report which is likely not where the pc's are. Unless the pc's try to setup an ambush of their own...
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More advice needed. My party snuck in past the waterfall and the shocker lizards straight to Lucrecia. She's engaged them in conversation and she has revealed Kaven as a traitor. I ended the session with Vale and Jakardos being stopped from killing Kaven (yet) and the job offer from Mokmurian.
My party came in the same way. I had Kaven already pretty edgy about the whole thing—he's already thinking that it's likely he'll be unmasked as the traitor if he returns to Rannick. I had him hanging toward the back and he bolted as soon as Lucrecia started talking.
As for Lucrecia, I don't think she cares about the ogres all that much. She used dimension door to duck out of the fight and headed back to Barl's side. It's much more important to her to let Barl know that there's some opposition in town and that he needs to pick up the pace on the dam destruction. Her ultimate loyalty is to Karzoug's return, not the Kreeg's holding Rannick. She's just staying at Fort Rannick out of convenience.