Japanese Names


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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mearrin69 wrote:

Sorry to harp on but does this not assume that they were *trying* to use correct Japanese and botched the job - as opposed to trying to make up some names that had Japanese flavor (as representatives from Paizo have noted repeatedly in this thread?)

I'm not gonna hang them when they pick a Chinese name, excuse me Tian Xia name, that doesn't quite suite my idea of proper Chineseishness. Seriously. It's Minkai, not Japan. It's Tian Xia, not China. And it's Varisia, not the south of France. Apples and oranges.

Guess I'm just not getting how you're still hung up on this. You seem like a pretty smart Joe and this is simple stuff.
M

The point, I guess, is that the names don't have Japanese flavour from the perspective of a speaker of Japanese? It's a little nitpicky and selfish, I admit.

And I'm not hung up on it. The issue has been resolved, and I couldn't be happier with the choice Mr. McArtor and co. made. I'm just...chiming in?

(like a broken record...) ;P


Takamori wrote:

The point, I guess, is that the names don't have Japanese flavour from the perspective of a speaker of Japanese? It's a little nitpicky and selfish, I admit.

And I'm not hung up on it. The issue has been resolved, and I couldn't be happier with the choice Mr. McArtor and co. made. I'm just...chiming in?

(like a broken record...) ;P

Oh, I see. Well, if it's settled then. Cool.

I'm just really glad that all of the speakers of western languages don't have a problem with the names that don't have proper flavors from the perspective of their languages don't chime in - we'd have a really looooong thread. I mean, what the heck kind of name is Ethram or Abstalar or Jargie?

I do dig, however, that they have a guy (Mr. Logue I think?) with some knowledge of Chinese on staff :) I hope it'll keep Tian Xia a lot like our Earth's China. That way my new RotR character Li Xiaolong won't end up being too Earthy.

Yeah, I know I'm being a smartass. :)
M


mearrin69 wrote:

Oh, I see. Well, if it's settled then. Cool.

I'm just really glad that all of the speakers of western languages don't have a problem with the names that don't have proper flavors from the perspective of their languages don't chime in - we'd have a really looooong thread. I mean, what the heck kind of name is Ethram or Abstalar or Jargie?

I do dig, however, that they have a guy (Mr. Logue I think?) with some knowledge of Chinese on staff :) I hope it'll keep Tian Xia a lot like our Earth's China. That way my new RotR character Li Xiaolong won't end up being too Earthy.

Yeah, I know I'm being a smartass. :)
M

I guess we were talking earlier in the thread about how while those sort of "weird" names are still POSSIBLE in the West, the Japanese (Minkai) names that were showing up weren't possible in Japan. i.e. you COULD name someone Ethram and it would be weird but plausible, but you really can't name someone Ameiko because there's no way to spell it.

I'm also looking forward to learning about Tian Xia.
Actually, I'm just looking forward to getting Pathfinder 2...


Takamori wrote:

I guess we were talking earlier in the thread about how while those sort of "weird" names are still POSSIBLE in the West, the Japanese (Minkai) names that were showing up weren't possible in Japan. i.e. you COULD name someone Ethram and it would be weird but plausible, but you really can't name someone Ameiko because there's no way to spell it.

I'm also looking forward to learning about Tian Xia.
Actually, I'm just looking forward to getting Pathfinder 2...

Well, yeah, you can spell anything using my alphabet - but that doesn't mean it's pronounceable or natural. Whaduigauydbnz is spellable but it's not a great name - in any language. Neither, I might add is Xagyg :)

Have you ever looked at the old 1E Oriental Adventures? Our boy Gary did some funky stuff with the 'Chinese' in it - I imagine he did the same with the 'Japanese'.

I'm looking forward to getting Pathfinder 2 as well but won't be able to read it until we get it played through - gonna loan it to a non-subscriber friend for a read-through while it's on the do-not-read list. Posted another thread about going beyond Golarion and was told not to expect much on Minkai and Tian Xia for a while yet...but I'll be glad to get it when it does come.
M


mearrin69 wrote:

Well, yeah, you can spell anything using my alphabet - but that doesn't mean it's pronounceable or natural. Whaduigauydbnz is spellable but it's not a great name - in any language. Neither, I might add is Xagyg :)

Have you ever looked at the old 1E Oriental Adventures? Our boy Gary did some funky stuff with the 'Chinese' in it - I imagine he did the same with the 'Japanese'.

I'm looking forward to getting Pathfinder 2 as well but won't be able to read it until we get it played through - gonna loan it to a non-subscriber friend for a read-through while it's on the do-not-read list. Posted another thread about going beyond Golarion and was told not to expect much on Minkai and Tian Xia for a while yet...but I'll be glad to get it when it does come.
M

I fully support the condemnation of Whaduigauydbnz as a viable name.

Ethram isn't bad, though.


Takamori wrote:

I fully support the condemnation of Whaduigauydbnz as a viable name.

Ethram isn't bad, though.

Awww. C'mon. I was gonna use that for my next BBEG ;)

M

NB: It was just random keypresses though it's at least as good as Xagyg I think. Notgnirra? I like it. I wanna be just like Yrag when I grow up.

The Exchange

mearrin69 wrote:
Takamori wrote:

I fully support the condemnation of Whaduigauydbnz as a viable name.

Ethram isn't bad, though.

Awww. C'mon. I was gonna use that for my next BBEG ;)

M

I'd much rather use a name like Whaduigauydbnz in my campaign than some nice-sounding Japanese style name that makes some nerd argue with me about its functionality for over two weeks.

Dark Archive Contributor

I regret resurrecting this thread.

Okay everyone, we've discussed this to death and back and death again. Let's just all agree to disagree and go play some world's most popular fantasy roleplaying game.

Woot!


Takamori wrote:


I guess we were talking earlier in the thread about how while those sort of "weird" names are still POSSIBLE in the West, the Japanese (Minkai) names that were showing up weren't possible in Japan. i.e. you COULD name someone Ethram and it would be weird but plausible, but you really can't name someone Ameiko because there's no way to spell it.

But you can 'spell' Amiko and Ameko, and the former is actually a Japanese name. Who says that the romanization Ameiko doesn't represent one of those? Maybe they are using a Varisian romanization, dude. It seems to me, that for a linguist, you are unable to grasp the meaning of possible.

And my penultimate question, why do you persist in making a fool of yourself?

Then my ultimate question: why won't this useless thread die? None of my Japanese associates gives a rat's ass about fantasy game names with a Japanese sound....

(Just trolling guys... nothing going on here, move along....)

PS. I think Ethram is really a name; it's just not an English name.

Dark Archive Contributor

All right, all right.

That might have been a little too harsh, Kruelly. :)

Let's all stay friends and let this thread die off. :)


Knocks three times.

Summons the floating head of death.


Demoyn wrote:
I'd much rather use a name like Whaduigauydbnz in my campaign than some nice-sounding Japanese style name that makes some nerd argue with me about its functionality for over two weeks.

............

Kruelaid wrote:
And my penultimate question, why do you persist in making a fool of yourself?

Because I keep forgetting how polite everyone is here.

Liberty's Edge

Mike McArtor wrote:

All right, all right.

That might have been a little too harsh, Kruelly. :)

Let's all stay friends and let this thread die off. :)

How high level will I have to be to successfully cast Raise Dead on this thread once it dies... again.

*just couldn't resist*

Dark Archive Contributor

Cato Novus wrote:

How high level will I have to be to successfully cast Raise Dead on this thread once it dies... again.

*just couldn't resist*

I don't know. What edition do you exist in?

Liberty's Edge

Mike McArtor wrote:
Cato Novus wrote:

How high level will I have to be to successfully cast Raise Dead on this thread once it dies... again.

*just couldn't resist*

I don't know. What edition do you exist in?

I don't know. It keeps changing on me.

Dark Archive Contributor

Cato Novus wrote:
Mike McArtor wrote:
Cato Novus wrote:

How high level will I have to be to successfully cast Raise Dead on this thread once it dies... again.

*just couldn't resist*

I don't know. What edition do you exist in?
I don't know. It keeps changing on me.

Well, if you're playing 3.14th edition, you need not worry, because everything circles back around to its beginning in that game.

;)

Liberty's Edge

Mike McArtor wrote:
Cato Novus wrote:
Mike McArtor wrote:
Cato Novus wrote:

How high level will I have to be to successfully cast Raise Dead on this thread once it dies... again.

*just couldn't resist*

I don't know. What edition do you exist in?
I don't know. It keeps changing on me.

Well, if you're playing 3.14th edition, you need not worry, because everything circles back around to its beginning in that game.

;)

Ahh, yes, its all coming back to me now.

Liberty's Edge

By the way, I hope you realize that by invoking a Pi joke, the gag is not allowed to terminate.

Dark Archive Contributor

Cato Novus wrote:
Ahh, yes, its all coming back to me now.

I knew you'd get around to seeing it that way.

Cato Novus wrote:
By the way, I hope you realize that by invoking a Pi joke, the gag is not allowed to terminate.

It's the gift that keeps on giving. ;)

Liberty's Edge

Mike McArtor wrote:
Cato Novus wrote:
Ahh, yes, its all coming back to me now.

I knew you'd get around to seeing it that way.

Cato Novus wrote:
By the way, I hope you realize that by invoking a Pi joke, the gag is not allowed to terminate.

It's the gift that keeps on giving. ;)

Yes, one could say it transcends other jokes.


Mike McArtor wrote:

All right, all right.

That might have been a little too harsh, Kruelly. :)

Let's all stay friends and let this thread die off. :)

Ok I'm sorry Takamori.

God I wish this thread would die.

Let's just round it off and kill it.

OMG, 7 pages... Takamori, I tip my hat at you for spawning a 7 page thread.

Liberty's Edge

A very interesting thread.

Thanks for the thread starter and all who posted their opinions on names in fantasy.

This thread reminds me of great authors of classic fantasy novels, like Tolkien or Le Guin etc. utilizing/creating names and languages that are both realistic and fantastic.

Profound knowledge and sincere efforts to delve into the real world cultures, histories, folk tales etc. are (IMHO) definitely a must to create a fantasy masterpiece, regardless of genre.

(I'm not a native English speaker, sorry if my post is messy. ;P )

Sovereign Court

Takamori wrote:
Thanks for your understanding. I've put together a quick guide to creating Japanese-sounding names (something to get ideas for especially the endings of names, if it would help or if you're interested):

I also have an appreciation for Japanese culture, having lived in Kagawa-ken on Shikoku for two years teaching English. But I actually prefer the "not quite" Japanese names. It keeps the story firmly within the fantasy realm. It allows the creators more freedom to depart from the real world Japanese norm as needed. It keeps the world, characters, countries and cultures from having undue restrictions on their properties due to their need to exactly follow the real world analogue.

I prefer that they keep it close enough to evoke the feel of Japan as a quick "sketch" to give the players a hook into understanding a culture - and yet keep it inaccurate - from a comparison to the real world culture - enough to allow departures from real world cultures, langauges and people.


i deliberately use a mistranslation of my name, as it hints at me being an instrument of assassination rather than a human individual. my 1st name (also my legal given name) means "throwing dagger." but i translate it to "shooting star." my family did the same thing. my ancestors were japanese and moved westward. eventually forgetting the language, i know less than most weeaboos. my family was tainted by the west. my last name would hint i am descended from some god of cats, (or a neko musume) but all that's proven is my excessive milk addiction. i still managed to maintain my petanko frame. i recently dropped out of kenpo, got expelled from my gymnastics class, for trying to advance too fast, and they said i was too thin and too reckless. i was the only student to knock herself unconscious on a regular basis from performing overly complex maneuvers. i always wear a black yukata in public, i have about 10 or 15. my native language is english, though it could've been japanese under different circumstances. i am currently 20 years old, though people say i don't look older than 10 or 12. try being 5 foot 1 and 80 pounds attempting advanced gymnastics, smack, straight into a wall, knocked out for a while awakening in time to go home. part of it could be my "Low Hit Points" as a gamer would say. i tease the people in my group, going to home stare at images of tomoyou daidouji. i'm lucky my father has good insurance, especially with all my head trauma. i guess there are asians that lack wisdom after all.


Takamori wrote:
But it only sounds Japanese to people who know nothing about what Japanese sounds like.

Then you have names like Asuka (EDIT: Can't seem to get the kanji to show up properly [guess the forums stick to ISO-8859-1 instead of Unicode]... "flying bird" ”ò’¹) that existed before the Japanese adoption of Chinese kanji and are most certainly not read anything like any of the accepted on or kun readings of those kanji.

The kanji were shoehorned to fit in such names based on their meaning, not on pronunciation. There is no requirement whatsoever that Japanese names (especially names predominant in early eras) have to match the on or kun reading of modern day simplified kanji. (Especially given that the kun reading for many kanji came long after the introduction of the writing system to Japan, and there are still close to a thousand Jinmeiyou kanji still in use only in family names.)


Oy, apologies to contributing to the thread necromancy. Just noticed the date of the first post. *hides in shame*


There is also how the language has changed...originally "dragonfly" was "akitsu" and there was no kanji for it at the time...now it is "tonbo".

As far as names being authentic, I dont expect that unless the designers of the setting have from the beginning stated analogs...such as the various nation in 7th Sea or Rogukan in L5R. And golarion is a a hodge-podge of fantasy and real world analogs.

It would be nice if the naming matched the 'origin ethnicity' more, but then that would have to be done for all of the setting.

If it is not going to be done for all of the setting then I like names that appear to be derived from the closest analog...Minkai is not Nihongo but should possibly be seen as a sister language, which means the structure would be similar but the the spelling can vary greatly as can the meaning. Same as Kelesh is not Arabic but has many of the sounds.

-Weylin


You just can't expect any kind of authenticity with fantasy names, no matter where the names are "supposed" to be from.

So Ameiko isn't right. Many and more names in the Eurocentric fantasy worlds are not even remotely authentic. Or are Japanese names superior in some way?

But funny you should mention that: Just the other day I had that very same talk with my neighbour Valeros while his wife Seoni was shopping in the Magnimar Mall.

The Exchange

My Japanese friend is named Dale. When he was in highschool one of his best friends was Korean and named Chip. I am not making this up. They would hang out and the rest of us would laugh so hard we almost cried. Names are names. I coudl name my Tian Xi character Olaf, it would sound silly but I could make it seem that my parents are traders and were Lovers of the Land of the Linnorm kings and just liked that name.

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