Heh. I always wish in hindsight that I would have made the villain speak a little more, but oh well!
To get a conversation out of this, give Malfeshnekor knowledge of a way out of his binding (I know, the author says there isn't one, but this *really* helps). Then he has an incentive to talk rather than just biting.
My PCs talked with him; he charmed the party leader; and they went haring off after the object he needed to escape (I gave it to Xanesha). By the time they had it, though, the 10-day duration on the charm was over. So the ex-charmed party leader brought the group back, broke M.'s bindings, and then said, "You're free--if you can get past me." I thought this was a nice character moment, and the fight was a lot more reasonable at that level than it would have been earlier.
There is a tendency throughout this AP to stifle chances for PC/villain interaction; if you see them coming you can often remove the stifling elements and get a lot more conversation.
(I wouldn't do a 10 point power attack against 2nd-3rd level PCs either, myself.)
Mary
Shouldn't Tangletooth (Gogmurt's Animal Companion) have two extra hit dice and an increase in natural armor for being an animal companion of a 4th level druid? This is all on Page 35.
Andrew
No, it is an alternative choice from the 4th level druid list (treat as -3 levels for companion abilities).
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No, it is an alternative choice from the 4th level druid list (treat as -3 levels for companion abilities).Shouldn't Tangletooth (Gogmurt's Animal Companion) have two extra hit dice and an increase in natural armor for being an animal companion of a 4th level druid? This is all on Page 35.
Andrew
Oops, Ok, my bad. Thanks.
I just wanted to mention that the Potions of Speak with Animals and Tree Shape, from the Goblin Druid Gogmurt, can't be made. You can't have potions with spells of range personal.
SRD Link
Its not a big deal and can be fixed by changing them into scrolls, but if others have players from the AoW AP they may figure this out pretty quick and call foul. In AoW Filge had created an Injector to overcome this issue with potions. Which is why I know my players will realize this right away.
ANYway... getting the horse off the island likely requires that the bridge be reinforced, which basically equates to simply disabling the trap. So you could reinforce the bridge with a DC 15 Disable Device check (since the DC is below 20, and since Disable Device is usable untrained, you don't even need a rogue to do this; it's just an Intelligence check for someone who has no ranks). Most people could take 20 on this check and the bridge'll be fine for leading or even riding the horse across it
I have to point out that Disable Device is a Trained only skill. So you need at least one rank to use it and you can't take 20 with the skill as you only can try again if you fail by less than 4.
SRD Disable Device LinkPersonally I think the use of Knowledge(Architecture and engineering) would be a better skill, or at least an alt skill, to be used to reinforce the bridge structure.
Tunnel Madness!?!
Okay, I had a question about the tunnels under the glassworks. And the Kaijitsu Family
I thoroughly searched Pathfinder 1 and came up with this timeline:
-42 years: Sandpoint founded, construction of Glassworks soon after
-41 years: Tunnels started around the same time
-40 years: Catacombs of Wrath found and then bricked over
-34 years: Glassworks basement bricked up by Lonjiku's "more scrupulous father"
-06 years: Nualia conceives Delek's baby in the tunnels
-05 years: Nualia miscarries, then burns down the chapel
-01 years: (maybe less) Nualia returns from Magnimar, opens catacombs
Who re-opened the connection to the tunnels from the glassworks basement?
Did Lonjiku open them sometime after his father closed them 34 years ago?
Or did Tsuto open them up recently when he and his goblins first broke into the glassworks?
How did Tsuto know the family secret about the tunnels? Did Ameiko tell him?
If the tunnels were a Kaijitsu family secret, why was Delek using them to score with Nualia? How did Delek find them?
What was Lonjiku's father's name? I he even alive?
It appears Lonjiku's father wasn't the founding Kaijitsu of Sandpoint, as he "inherited" the Glassworks from the tunnel builder. So who was the founding Kaijitsu?
(I think this is Lonjiku's grandfather and Ameiko's Great-Grandfather.)
(That's a lot of generations down in 42 years.)
Oh, and are there any other Kaijitsu siblings, cousins or Aunts and Uncles living in Sandpoint? I assume there are relatives in Magnimar.
Are you tired of my questions yet?
I ask all this because my players just rescued Ameiko and she reacted well to them, so the party will proably be dealing with her a lot. They apoligized for killing Tsuto and gave her all his loot! As a former adventurer, I'm sure she was shocked that anyone would give up loot. ;^)
The party dwarf also has a really good skills with stonework, so I want to make sure I give him the right information as a result of his searching.
I compiled pretty much everything from this thread into an unofficial Errata PDF document. I sorted it by page number to make it a little easier to find what you need. The document also has some of James Jacobs's answers to the more general Rise of the Runelords answers he posted in this thread.
Hope this helps others out. Its my way of saying thanks to Paizo for another great adventure path for me and my players.
Creative Director
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Who re-opened the connection to the tunnels from the glassworks basement?
Tsuto unbricked the entrance to the Glassworks from the tunnels so he could have a sneaky way to smuggle goblins into town.
How did Tsuto know the family secret about the tunnels? Did Ameiko tell him?
The tunnels were mostly a secret, but not one that the Kaijitsus kept very well. Most of the older folk in Sandpoint suspect or even know that there are smuggler tunnels somewhere under town; it wouldn't be a HUGE problem for Tsuto to figure them out in the years after he left the orphanage.
If the tunnels were a Kaijitsu family secret, why was Delek using them to score with Nualia? How did Delek find them?
Again... they're not totally unknown to the locals. The Sczarni certainly know about them, and many of the local kids discover them by accident. Delek's one of those who discovered them (by way of the northern entrance) and felt they'd be a great place for some privacy.
What was Lonjiku's father's name? I he even alive?
He's dead. He doesn't have a name (although I probably wrote one down somewhere early on...).
It appears Lonjiku's father wasn't the founding Kaijitsu of Sandpoint, as he "inherited" the Glassworks from the tunnel builder. So who was the founding Kaijitsu?
Yeah; there have been 4 generations of Kaijitsus in Sandpoint. Again, I have their lineage worked out somewhere, since the Kaijitsus are scheduled to be a big deal in an upcoming Adventure Path, but if I remember right, Ameiko's about 22 years old, with Tsuto being a few years younger... let me take a quick stab at a timeline...
-42 years: Great-grandfather helps found Sandpoint, builds glassworks. At this point, Lonjiku is about 5 years old, his father is about 25, and his great-grandfather is about 50.-41 years: Great-grandfather is involved with smuggling operation and agrees to let the Glassworks (at the time one of the few established businesses in town) be an anchor point for the tunnels.
-35 years: Great-grandfather dies, ownership of Glassworks passes to grandfather, who discovers the true nature of his father's relationship with the smugglers, and wants out.
-34 years: Smugglers driven from Sandpoint. Grandfather bricks over the tunnel entrance to the Glassworks.
-24 years: Grandfather dies, and passes ownership of the Glassworks to his son Lonjiku.
I probably messed up some of the dates, but that's more or less how it works in my mind.
Oh, and are there any other Kaijitsu siblings, cousins or Aunts and Uncles living in Sandpoint? I assume there are relatives in Magnimar.
There are a couple more Kaijitsu families in Magnimar. In Sandpoint, there are several Lonjiku kids. If I remember correctly again... Ameiko's the older, followed by Tsuto, followed by probably two sisters and a brother.
Are you tired of my questions yet?
Nope! :-)
I should probably see if I can find this information about the Kaijitsus, wherever I hid it, and post it so folk who want to make Ameiko a bigger part of RotR can set her up so that she'll dovetail nicely into the unnamed future Adventrue Path in which she becomes one of the main characters, I guess...
Are you tired of my questions yet?
Nope! :-)
Thanks for the response James. Most of your answers matched what I suspected was true. The one thing I was a bit off on was the ages of everyone.
First of all - kudos to ShadowChemosh for his Errata .pdf - thanks a lot!
I thought, since everyone is doing it, I might add a question or two.
First of all I found it interesting that Lonjiku Kaijitsu's stats do not contain info on his race (p. 59 and 71). I assume this is just an error, especially since Ameiko is human. Anyways - I guess it won't matter for future products :p
Second - I don't quite understand why Tsuto had his father make sure nobody was at the Glassworks during the festival. I don't see there was any activity at the Glassworks that particular day. Tsuto obviously left Sandpoint after the raid to deliver the casket (according to his journal), but he then returns, with a number of goblins, to stay at the Glassworks... But why?
There are a few days between the raid on Sandpoint until Tsuto kills his father. However, his father comes to the Glassworks to meet with Tsuto. Does this mean that Tsuto, and his band of goblins, in fact occupy the Glassworks for a few days after the raid? Without anybody noticing?
Anyways - this is just some minor stuff I noticed - no problem to fix it. Overall the adventure looks awesome, and although we've only just finished the glassworks, my player's are already loving it :) I can't wait to run the Skinsaw murders (looks soooo cool).
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First of all I found it interesting that Lonjiku Kaijitsu's stats do not contain info on his race (p. 59 and 71). I assume this is just an error, especially since Ameiko is human. Anyways - I guess it won't matter for future products :p
With the exception of Tsuto (who's a half-elf), the entire Kaijitsu family is human. In fact, as a general rule, if an NPC is mentioned in any Paizo product and that race is not expressly mentioned in his stats... you can assume he's human.
Second - I don't quite understand why Tsuto had his father make sure nobody was at the Glassworks during the festival. I don't see there was any activity at the Glassworks that particular day. Tsuto obviously left Sandpoint after the raid to deliver the casket (according to his journal), but he then returns, with a number of goblins, to stay at the Glassworks... But why?
Because Tsuto knows the glassworks more than other locations in town, because they're connected to the tunnels, and because Tsuto and his goblins visited these tunnels and the glassworks before the raid on Sandpoint. In fact, you'll note that in the raid on Sandpoint, the goblins pretty much show up out of nowhere; that's because they were loaded into covered wagons at the Glassworks after invading unseen via the tunnels. Tsuto, himself disguised, then saw to bringing the covered wagons of goblins up to the festivities where the goblins were left to wait patiently (a minor miracle) for a few minutes until the raid was supposed to begin. But since the Glassworks were one of several initial staging points for the invasion, and since Tsuto didn't want his dad or any of the workers noticing or hearing the goblins before the raid began, he wanted the Glassworks to be empty.
There are a few days between the raid on Sandpoint until Tsuto kills his father. However, his father comes to the Glassworks to meet with Tsuto. Does this mean that Tsuto, and his band of goblins, in fact occupy the Glassworks for a few days after the raid? Without anybody noticing?
After the raid, the surviving goblins flee Sandpoint by whatever route they can. Tsuto gets out quickly as well. For a day or two or three, neither Tsuto nor goblin are in the basement, but Tsuto has to come back there relatively soon before his father notices the knocked-down brick wall in the basement (he probably hides it with some stacked crates or something until then), bringing with him some more goblins.
Great! thanks for the prompt reply :)
I guess I always assumed the covered wagon simply came through the north gate.
Why does Nualia have a threat range of 18-20 with her bastard sword? Is it just a mistake, or am I missing something?
Picture, if you will:
The PCs defeat Lyrie, knock her out, and take her prisoner. Even though she tries to fight to the death because the killed Tsuto. Who wasn't really her boyfriend anyway. She is dejected and forlorn, but the PCs are kind to her during questioning (like I said, it's a stretch).
(SNIP, SNIP, SNIPPITY SNIP...)
So you wind up with a PC who has a Chaotic Evil girlfriend. And let's face it, in real life, we've all seen that before, right?
My party bluffed their way past Lyrie's questions about Tsuto, then let her go. By dint of some seriously rockin' Bluff rolls and Diplomacy checks, they left on good terms ("No, we didn't kill Tsuto. He got hauled in by the law in Sandpoint and died in jail! Really, really!")
Since Nualia had died by that point, Lyrie had no burning desire to get herself killed. She took the party's suggestion to be on her way and left (with all her gear).
Predictably, one of the PCs (A Chaotic-Neutral type) thinks she's his dream girl. I planned for them to meet again in Magnimar, but if she decides to move to Sandpoint, things might become interesting...)
I am not sure if it has been brought up before ( I don't remember anybody bringing it up, but it has been a long time since I went through all the pages of this thread), but as written, the placement of the fire pit in Mel's chamber makes it hard for the large sized outsider to move around tacticaly in combat.
I "fixed" this by pushing the back wall a square further from the door, allowing the Barghest to cross from one side of the room to the other with out having to squeeze along the ledge over the pit.
I just wanted to mention that the Potions of Speak with Animals and Tree Shape, from the Goblin Druid Gogmurt, can't be made. You can't have potions with spells of range personal.
SRD LinkIts not a big deal and can be fixed by changing them into scrolls, but if others have players from the AoW AP they may figure this out pretty quick and call foul.
A goblin who can read? My players would cry foul more at the scrolls than at the potions, I think. I'm going to make them one-use magic items (crafted using the rules at the back of the DMG) such that you pull apart a pine cone and scatter the seeds to have the effect begin.
A goblin who can read? My players would cry foul more at the scrolls than at the potions, I think. I'm going to make them one-use magic items (crafted using the rules at the back of the DMG) such that you pull apart a pine cone and scatter the seeds to have the effect begin.I just wanted to mention that the Potions of Speak with Animals and Tree Shape, from the Goblin Druid Gogmurt, can't be made. You can't have potions with spells of range personal.
SRD LinkIts not a big deal and can be fixed by changing them into scrolls, but if others have players from the AoW AP they may figure this out pretty quick and call foul.
I just made them liquid one-use wondrous items (ie. Elixers) and didn't worry about it too much.
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Creative Director
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A goblin who can read? My players would cry foul more at the scrolls than at the potions, I think. I'm going to make them one-use magic items (crafted using the rules at the back of the DMG) such that you pull apart a pine cone and scatter the seeds to have the effect begin.I just wanted to mention that the Potions of Speak with Animals and Tree Shape, from the Goblin Druid Gogmurt, can't be made. You can't have potions with spells of range personal.
SRD LinkIts not a big deal and can be fixed by changing them into scrolls, but if others have players from the AoW AP they may figure this out pretty quick and call foul.
Yeah... I made them potions because goblins wouldn't ever use scrolls. They're afraid of writing, remember? But alas, I'd forgotten about the restriction on the potions...
My Fix: Make those potions into elixirs, which reclassifies them as Wondrous Items, at which point they work just fine.
EDIT: Which was suggested just above my posts too. I should learn to read ALL posts before replying.
I updated the Errata/Corrigendum to take into account all the new updates in this thread. Including the note about making the potions into elixirs. I had forgotten that little detail about goblins afraid of words.
I also added a note that the Tentamort writeup has the creature listed as having a 10ft reach with its stinger, but according to the Tome of Horrors its the Tentacle. Plus after looking at the picture it makes sense that its the tentacle.
Unofficial Errata for Chapter 1: Burnt Offerings(Updated 2/10/08)
Also note that the tentamort is completely blind and only has blindsense (not blindsight). This means that the PCs always have concealment, and thus can walk all over the place and cast any spells they like and what-have-you without ever provoking an attack of opportunity. It also means that the tentamort has a 50% miss chance with every attack.
Also note that the tentamort is completely blind and only has blindsense (not blindsight).....
This sort of brings up a whole set of questions. As the abilities listed in pathfinder have several differences to the writeup for the Tentamort in the Tome of Horrors I, pg 252.
For example the Tentamort in the Tome of Horrors I is listed as having Blindsight not blindsense. It gets 2 Tentacle attacks a round with 10ft reach. The Sting can Only be used against creatures grappled so the +4 to hit simply washes the -4 to hit with a weapon in a grapple.
The Pathfinder write up also leaves out the whole Constrict info and that the constrict damage is 1d4+2 and that you can slice off a tentacle by doing 10 points of slashing damage directly to a tentacle(AC17). I think thats important as it gives a very cinematic way of releasing some one stuck in the grapple.
Also the whole Liquefy Organs ability was changed from almost guaranteed death, ie 1d6 con damage per round, too just two rounds of con damage which I think is better. Paizo also added a Fort save where their was originally only an attack roll. So this shows me that some of these changes where done on purpose to make the creature a little less nasty.
Is their any chance Mr Jacobs could give us some feedback on what changes where done on purpose and what where maybe mistakes? I think the whole Blindsight vs Blindsense is an example where I think it was just a typo.
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Creative Director
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Is their any chance Mr Jacobs could give us some feedback on what changes where done on purpose and what where maybe mistakes? I think the whole Blindsight vs Blindsense is an example where I think it was just a typo.
There is!
A fair amount of the creatures from Tome of Horrors, as awesome as that book is, have some relatively serious design flaws. The bunyip and the tentamort are two of those. I included them in Burnt Offerings because they're both monsters I remembered fondly from their first appearance in D&D back in the 1st edition Fiend Folio (and the bunyip because that one also hits on the cryptozoology thing), but the writeups in the 3.0 Tome of Horrors made them grossly unfair as low-level encounters.
Since Pathfinder's a 3.5 adventure (and since I didn't have access at the time to the 3.5 revision of the Tome of Horrors), I went ahead and did some redesign on both of the monsters to make them a little less arbitrarily deadly and a little more in-line with the 3.5 design philosophy. That meant that the bunyip's vorpal bite got turned into an augmented critical bite (with the special effect of biting off a target's head if the damage would have killed it anyway), and the tentamort's liquefy organs ability went from being a pretty hard-core Constitution blaster down to something a little more appropriate for a CR 4 monster.
As for the blindsense vs. blindsight thing... it should have blindsight. Blindsense is a terrible ability to give to a creature that lacks visual organs. Almost as terrible as having two monster abilities that ALMOST do the same thing and ALMOST have the same name... but that's a rant for a different thread.
The tentamort DOES still constrict if it grabs with its tentacle; its 1d4+2 constriction damage is listed as one of its special attacks. Constrict is a pretty self-explanitory ability, and it's partially described under the tentamort's Improved Grab ability, I elected to not include the Constrict Special Ability in its full writeup to save a few lines of space and since we were still tinkering with how much info our stat blocks do. But rest assured, it does still constrict.
As for the complicated tentacle slicing subsystem... that may be cinematic, but it's not really well supported by the rules. If you allow called shots and damage to specific limbs like that, you really should also include the opportunity for characters to cut off arms and legs from other monsters too. It's only fair.
Thanks that helps me at least put the different differences into a valid light and I had kind of assumed some of those changes where done on purpose. I will put these notes into the unofficial errata on the Tentamort and Bunyip.
....
As for the complicated tentacle slicing subsystem... that may be cinematic, but it's not really well supported by the rules. If you allow called shots and damage to specific limbs like that, you really should also include the opportunity for characters to cut off arms and legs from other monsters too. It's only fair.
I have to respectively disagree a little about the slicing subsystem. This is already in the 3.5 rules system and seems to work very well, but granted I forgot to say its actually now a Sunder Attack. Specifically with regards to cutting off Hydra heads or the tentacles of a Giant Squid. Plus I think its a good reward for players that have taken the Sunder Feat as they can attempt to put it to a very good use. I enjoy as a DM and player having these extra options, but granted it does add extra rules into a combat that maybe is rules heavy with grapple(though I personally disagree).
If nothing else I wanted to let other DMs know about this so they can decided for themselves if they wanted to use it or not. Besides the only reason I know all these rules like this is the year and half long Age of Worms Adventure path campaign I ran. The ability to cut a giant squids tentacles is the only thing that saved one of my players PCs from certain death in Hall of Harsh Reflections. So really all my comments like the above are Paizo's fault for having such a wide variety of monsters & rules in their modules. ;)
For anyone interested here is how the 3.5 rules would work for cutting off the tentacles.
An opponent can attack a tentamort's tentacles with a sunder attempt, using slashing weapons only, as if they were weapons. A tentamort's tentacles have 10 hit points each. If a tentamort is currently grappling a target with the tentacle that is being attacked, it usually uses another limb to make its attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of a tentamort's tentacles deals 5 points of damage to the creature.
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This may be a silly question. It may have already been answered.I am planning to run a rise of the rune lord’s game. I have been re reading the “burnt offerings “ adventure in issue #1 of pathfinder. It is an enjoyable read. We all know how often player’s “go off the reservation” and invariably decide to tackle a situation in an unexpected manner. I suspect my players might just take one look at the rope bridge, and decide to try a sea approach.
My question is about Thistle top. Is the shore of the island of thistle top entirely sea cliffs? From the description of the island being the head of a colossus one would think so. I am confused about this because on the map, it looks like there is an overturned boat in the back of the complex. I am curious weather every side of thistle top island is a sea cliff, or if there is a beach with an embankment to scramble up. Any thoughts would be appreciated, Thanks.
This may be a silly question. It may have already been answered.I am planning to run a rise of the rune lord’s game. I have been re reading the “burnt offerings “ adventure in issue #1 of pathfinder. It is an enjoyable read. We all know how often player’s “go off the reservation” and invariably decide to tackle a situation in an unexpected manner. I suspect my players might just take one look at the rope bridge, and decide to try a sea approach.
My question is about Thistle top. Is the shore of the island of thistle top entirely sea cliffs? From the description of the island being the head of a colossus one would think so. I am confused about this because on the map, it looks like there is an overturned boat in the back of the complex. I am curious weather every side of thistle top island is a sea cliff, or if there is a beach with an embankment to scramble up. Any thoughts would be appreciated, Thanks.
My second group decided to try by boat actually, and near the back of the island (where the boat is shown on the map) I placed a narrow, slippery trail that switchbacked up the cliff and a small stone quay that was above water at low tide. Because they didn't think they could carry thier boat up the trail, and didn't know how long they would be in thistletop, the group decided to hide thier boat on the beach and cross to the island via the bridge anyway.
My group did a sea approach using a feather token, so the boat will still be waiting for them when (if) they leave Thistletop.
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Just a quick question. What do you guys do about Malfeshnekor? The greater Bhargest is deadly to a 3rd level party. With three rounds to spell up I will have to try hard to not kill the party. With a mass bull str, a blink spell and a rage spell, the Bhargest will have a 50%miss chance, and a +2 to con, which gives him a +10 hps, and a +7 to Str. Which pushes his str. Up to a 33. This gives him I think a +7 to damage with his claw attacks.
If he power attacks, he will get a 1d6+17 to damage with each claw I think. I was just running a combat simulation with the Bhargest and the characters. I keep the character sheets between sessions. This is what I ended up with. Surprise round, the Bhargest attacked the cleric of Sorenrae (AC 17 and 28 hps). The Bhargest power attacked for 10. I rolled a 1 and 2 so it missed. The total was 1+17+3-10=11 and 2+17+3-10=12 vs. Flat footed ac of 16.
For the Bhargests attack rolls I am using the +17 from the stat block with a +3 from the rage and bull str spells, and a -10 for the power attack.
Round 1 The Bhargest won imitative Rolled a 12 + 8= 20. The party Rogue +3 init rolled a 14+3=17. The Druid rolled a 12+4= 18, the cleric rolled a 16+1=17, the fighter with a +2 rolled a 10+2 and got a 10. The wizard rolled a 7+4=11.
I had the Bhargest continue to attack the cleric of Sorenrae. I rolled a 6 and 8 to hit so that would be a 6+17+3-10= 16 and an 8 +17+3-10=18 so both hits. For damage I rolled 2d6 + 34 and I got a 1 and 2= 37. The cleric was immediately dropped to -9 hps.
The fighter stepped into the breach, while the mage dragged the clerics body back a few feet, while the druid cast a cure light wounds to staunch the bleeding. The rogue made the dc 15 tumble check to maneuver around behind the bhargest, and avoid attacks of opportunity. With the fighter and rogue flanking they attacked. The rogue missed the ac 23 and the fighter hit barely. The flanking bonus made the difference. The fighter also made his 50% miss chance for the blink spell. With a heavy flail the fighter did 1d10+4 pts dmg, I rolled a 9 +4=13. I subtracted the 10 pts of damage for the DR. so the Bhargest only took 3 pts of damage.
The second round the Bhargest laid into the fighter (ac 17 and 31 hps) with another 10 point power attack I rolled a 8 and 12 for to hit rolls of 8+17+3-10=18 and 12+17+3-10= 22. Two hits the bhargest rolled on a 2d6 a 3 and 5, so that would be 3+ 17=20 + 5+17= 22 with a total damage of 42 points. The fighter was reduced to – 11 right there. Dead. The party decided to bug out. The Wizard cast Tenser's floating disc under the cleric, and the druid dragged the fighter’s body onto the disc; they then used their move action to leave the room, the bodies in tow. The rogue tried to leave; she failed her dc 25 tumble check to move through the Bhargest’s space to make it out the door. On the Way the Bhargest got his attack of opportunity on her and I rolled a 17. IT was a hit. Because it was during the same round it had a 1- point power attack Luckily I rolled a 1 on a 1d6 and the Bhargest did only 18 pts of damage. The thief had full 20 hps, now had 2 hps. The party decided to run.
So this was my simulation. This thing could very easily kill the party in a matter of rounds. A TPK easily. Maybe I am missing something. Maybe the pary is supposed to run away.
Any advice on how to handle this thanks.
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Malfeshnekor is indeed deadly to a 3rd level party. He's not INTENDED to be the boss of the adventure, and the last few encounters between him and Nualia are supposed to show explorers of Thistletop that things are getting tougher quickly. The way I envision it, a group of PCs defeats Nualia and hits 4th level and retreats to Sandpoint, where the next adventure begins. The second half of the bottom level of Thistletop's intended to be "bonus" content; the PCs can come back there when they're ready to try to finish off the encounters there, but avoid them doesn't mean that "Burnt Offerings" is over. I probably should have been a bit more clear about that in the adventure, alas...
I had the barghest talk rather than attacking immediately. This is counter to the description, but reduces the chance of a TPK. The PCs get a moment to realize how powerful this may be, and it gets a moment to try charming someone. In my game it successfully charmed the party leader and sent the group off looking for a token to get it out of its binding.
The only good thing about this fight at 3rd level is that the barghest can't pursue, so if the PCs retreat it probably won't be a TPK. But I'm awfully glad not to have to run it, with the almost inevitable permanent death of at least one PC.
Thistletop is shockingly hard, especially after the very reasonable earlier parts of the scenario. If you look at the PC death tallies, you'll see that something like 4/5 of the PCs who have died in the entire AP died at Thistletop!
Mary
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Thank you both Mr. Jacobs and Mary Yamato for your replies. I kept the party away from Malfeshnekor. First I planted a clue in Nualia’s diary, where she wrote about some dreams she had of a great wolf named Malfeshnekor, who was sometimes a goblin sometimes a Wolf. She believed Lamatsu intended this fiend to be her consort, so she could bear hell spawn. Nualia further speculated that this creature was probably a greater Bharghest. I also put a big bas-relief on the walls, of a big wolf slaughtering people, turning into a wolf and back again. The stone door, had a big wolfs head with an M on it. After a planar knowledge roll, I told them what a Bhargest was. After just finishing their harrowing battle with Naulia, they decided to back off.
Interestingly enough the party has managed to capture alive, Tsuto. The rogue knocked Tsuto into unconsciousness with her sap. While the rogue tried the good cop, and the fighter tried the bad cop routine with Tsuto in the Sandpoint jail cell, the party wizard stood quietly in the hall way, gazing into the cell using a detect thoughts spell. Questions would be posed to Tsuto; he would sit stoically not answering, however all the while the answers to the questions would spring to his surface thoughts. That is how the group learned information about Thistle Top, and Tsuto’s willingness to commit suicide. a sedative and a strait jacket later, and Tsuto was all trussed up.
The party was also able to whack Gorgmut into unconsciousness with a sap attack, and carted him off to Sandpoint; they did the same to Orik, Lyrie, and Nualia.
Gorgmut has been summarily hanged for being a goblin. He didn’t make it to jail. Bowing to public opinion the Mayor has decided to have the “gang of four”: Tsuto, Orik Lyrie and Nualia tried in Sandpoint. This particular capitol case will not be forwarded to Magimar, only to be lost in red tape.
I am thinking of having one of the PCs be appointed defense counsel, and another the prosecutor, and I the DM will be the Mayor, who will decide the case. It should be interesting.
Little Help Please?
I am confused on the actual layout of the smuggler tunnel under the glassworks. anyone have a visual representation of it?
everytime i think i have it visualized, i lose it.
just want to make sure i get it right.
thanks,
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Little Help Please?
I am confused on the actual layout of the smuggler tunnel under the glassworks. anyone have a visual representation of it?
everytime i think i have it visualized, i lose it.
just want to make sure i get it right.thanks,
I had the same situation but I like to play with scales and maps so here's what I figured:
Starting with the minor Rune-Well aligned with center of the north garisson wall (PF-5) I figured the tunel's intersection is around the corner Rat Ally and Main (probably under the North-West house) and its' four branches are:
1- West-South-West to the glassworks (curving back to a north-south axis close to the glassworks, shown on the basement map).
2- North-North-West to the Catacombs (curving to an East-West arc, shown on the catacombs map, beneath the cliff south of the garisson)
3- East-North-East leads to the long coast-following tunnel ending with the beach-side cave about half-way to Thistletop.
4- East-South-East curving East leads to the collapsed end 400 feet later (possibly under Sandpoint Theater no. 23 or close)that would otherwise lead around the Turandarok river (not sure wich part possibly under one of the bridges, maybe the Mill's pier no. 25, Hey! don't the Scarnetti run that ? Interesting ...)
Hope that helps, if anyone has anything else jump-in !
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For where everything is located as far as the smugglers tunnels go, one of the stairwells that goes upwards into stone has in its description where the PCs would come out if they somehow decided to dig through 30ft of rock. I think it puts them at junk alley. You can more or less figure out the rest of the complex from there, just by adjusting its size difference and sort of overlaying it on the sandpoint map with that as your starting point.
-Tarlane
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Something has always confused me about the Catacombs of Wrath map. The dug out section B1 leads to area B6. I could never figure out how this interacts. Maybe I am missing something. My assumption is that B1 goes under B6 chamber and there is a hole leading up. Once in the cell then are the cells locked? How do they open? I just do not see anywhere this is explained even in passing.
The description of A23 also confused me. I tried to do a quick map of it, but it just was not clear at all. Especially how you eventually get to B1. I have seen some explanations, but it just confused me. I can make that part up though for the most part so it works.
By the way, the links of the GM References for Rise of the Runelords no longer work since the messageboard reorganization. I had to find this thread the hard way.
Something has always confused me about the Catacombs of Wrath map. The dug out section B1 leads to area B6. I could never figure out how this interacts. Maybe I am missing something. My assumption is that B1 goes under B6 chamber and there is a hole leading up. Once in the cell then are the cells locked? How do they open? I just do not see anywhere this is explained even in passing.
The tunnel opens into B5, which is level with the wooden walkway over B6. Therefore, I believe the tunnel doesn't actually enter B6 at all, it dead-ends, but the dead-end happens to be above that particular cell in B6. (But this requires that the ceilings in the cells be lower than the ceilings in the main room - which makes sense, actually.)
I think it probably doesn't matter if the cells are locked or open, since there's nothing of value in them. Either decide they're locked and establish a reasonably low Open Lock DC (since the PCs will probably get annoyed if they waste a lot of time opening them all, and find nothing) or better yet, have a keyring on a hook on the wall somewhere.
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The tunnel opens into B5, which is level with the wooden walkway over B6. Therefore, I believe the tunnel doesn't actually enter B6 at all, it dead-ends, but the dead-end happens to be above that particular cell in B6. (But this requires that the ceilings in the cells be lower than the ceilings in the main room - which makes sense, actually.)
I think it probably doesn't matter if the cells are locked or open, since there's nothing of value in them. Either decide they're locked and establish a reasonably low Open Lock DC (since the PCs will probably get annoyed if they waste a lot of time opening them all, and find nothing) or better yet, have a keyring on a hook on the wall somewhere.
B5 is the stariwell in the middle of the catacombs.
The map shows a dashed line under one of the cells in B6 and in the cell there is a brown hole.
The tunnel also goes to B2 and B3. B3 does not make any mention of it, but B2 does.
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Creative Director
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The tunnel opens into B5, which is level with the wooden walkway over B6. Therefore, I believe the tunnel doesn't actually enter B6 at all, it dead-ends, but the dead-end happens to be above that particular cell in B6. (But this requires that the ceilings in the cells be lower than the ceilings in the main room - which makes sense, actually.)
I think it probably doesn't matter if the cells are locked or open, since there's nothing of value in them. Either decide they're locked and establish a reasonably low Open Lock DC (since the PCs will probably get annoyed if they waste a lot of time opening them all, and find nothing) or better yet, have a keyring on a hook on the wall somewhere.
B5 is the stariwell in the middle of the catacombs.
The map shows a dashed line under one of the cells in B6 and in the cell there is a brown hole.
The tunnel also goes to B2 and B3. B3 does not make any mention of it, but B2 does.
The tunnel to area B6 should be a dead-end tunnel with a hole in the floor that drops into the cell below. The map isn't as clear as it should be... but we didn't have the time to get it fixed (the layout and art and everything for Pathfinder 1 more or less happened in about 1 or 2 weeks, as opposed to one or two months... I'm still stunned and amazed we got Pathfinder 1 out on time for Gen Con as it is!).
Yeah; there have been 4 generations of Kaijitsus in Sandpoint. Again, I have their lineage worked out somewhere, since the Kaijitsus are scheduled to be a big deal in an upcoming Adventure Path, but if I remember right, Ameiko's about 22 years old, with Tsuto being a few years younger... let me take a quick stab at a timeline...
Does this mean that sand point will be making a reappearance?
I would love that.
Yeah; there have been 4 generations of Kaijitsus in Sandpoint. Again, I have their lineage worked out somewhere, since the Kaijitsus are scheduled to be a big deal in an upcoming Adventure Path, but if I remember right, Ameiko's about 22 years old, with Tsuto being a few years younger... let me take a quick stab at a timeline...Does this mean that sand point will be making a reappearance?
I would love that.
I remember reading somewhere about younger Kaijitsu siblings in the Academy. Was that in Pathfinder #1 (can't find it upon looking), or was that perhaps a GM embellishment that i read on the boards?
wanting to incorporate it into our story.
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Creative Director
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Eventually, yes. Sandpoint will appear again in Pathfinder. Both of the current sequel adventure paths I have in mind actually start in Sandpoint at this time, in fact. But again... at the very least, we're at least 18 months away from anything crazy like a sequel Adventure Path...
Eventually, yes. Sandpoint will appear again in Pathfinder. Both of the current sequel adventure paths I have in mind actually start in Sandpoint at this time, in fact. But again... at the very least, we're at least 18 months away from anything crazy like a sequel Adventure Path...
Are there plans to carry the first two paths up to level 20 with another module or two? Is that what you are referring to above or would it be another new path?
I remember reading somewhere about younger Kaijitsu siblings in the Academy. Was that in Pathfinder #1 (can't find it upon looking), or was that perhaps a GM embellishment that i read on the boards?wanting to incorporate it into our story.
Found this is in another post:
"Anyway, another thing to keep in mind is that although Ameiko is now the head of the Kaijitsu family, she is not completely without support. According to James Jacobs, she has younger siblings besides Tsuto: another brother and two sisters."is this so? i want to incorporate them into the story.
the Bard is looking to become an part time instructor at the Academy.
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Creative Director
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Eventually, yes. Sandpoint will appear again in Pathfinder. Both of the current sequel adventure paths I have in mind actually start in Sandpoint at this time, in fact. But again... at the very least, we're at least 18 months away from anything crazy like a sequel Adventure Path...Are there plans to carry the first two paths up to level 20 with another module or two? Is that what you are referring to above or would it be another new path?
One plan is to take up where Runelords ends, which would probably be an adventure path that goes from 17th level to whatever... maybe 25th or 30th. I'm not sure that one will ever be written, though, since the number of people who want epic level stuff is, I strongly suspect, not enough to justify taking up Pathfinder for half a year.
One plan is to start in Sandpoint after Runelords is over, but have new characters starting at 1st level. In this adventure, things would start in Sandpoint but would pretty quickly move far, far away.
Both plans are still pretty much in the "vague idea in James's head" stage, along with a half dozen or so other Adventure Path ideas.
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Creative Director
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Found this is in another post:
"Anyway, another thing to keep in mind is that although Ameiko is now the head of the Kaijitsu family, she is not completely without support. According to James Jacobs, she has younger siblings besides Tsuto: another brother and two sisters."is this so? i want to incorporate them into the story.
the Bard is looking to become an part time instructor at the Academy.
It's true. Ameiko has a few other siblings. After Burnt Offerings, the Kaijitsu manor is pretty much her, her brother and sisters, and the help staff. She's got a lot on her hands as a result. And that is more or less the kernel of my plans for her in some nebulous upcoming adventure.
If you want to develop her further, though, go for it! Any adventure path that starts out with her in a starring role will certainly have a sidebar talking about what to do if you've already had other things happen to her in a previous campaign.
Eventually, yes. Sandpoint will appear again in Pathfinder. Both of the current sequel adventure paths I have in mind actually start in Sandpoint at this time, in fact. But again... at the very least, we're at least 18 months away from anything crazy like a sequel Adventure Path...Are there plans to carry the first two paths up to level 20 with another module or two? Is that what you are referring to above or would it be another new path?
One plan is to take up where Runelords ends, which would probably be an adventure path that goes from 17th level to whatever... maybe 25th or 30th. I'm not sure that one will ever be written, though, since the number of people who want epic level stuff is, I strongly suspect, not enough to justify taking up Pathfinder for half a year.
One plan is to start in Sandpoint after Runelords is over, but have new characters starting at 1st level. In this adventure, things would start in Sandpoint but would pretty quickly move far, far away.
Both plans are still pretty much in the "vague idea in James's head" stage, along with a half dozen or so other Adventure Path ideas.
It wouldn't have to be a half a year... I'd be interested enough in a single module that carried from 17th to 20th, but again, there might not be enough interest in a single adventure to make it worthwhile.