Just thought we needed a thread for this since we are getting the pdf later the U.S.
Anyone who gets it can let the rest of us know.
*plays* Porcupine Tree - Waiting (Phase Two)
STILL waiting... BTW, I don't think Paizo's intentions were to leave us European subscribers behind, the fact is just that US customs and international shipping are so complicated.
Oh, and why this thread is titled "PDF for UK/European subscribers"? Isn't UK in Europe anymore? ;->
So why is it we are getting the PDF later than everyone else? And whats the ETA on getting it to us? Im really looking forward to getting my hands on it and cant wait any longer!
Please refer to the answer from Vic Wertz:
We believe we've got all of the bugs worked out of the system, and fulfillment is proceeding as quickly as possible.
Fulfillment is broken into two categories: domestic and international.
Domestic shipping began with UPS shipments (of which there were only a few dozen). Then we went to folks who have charter Pathfinder subscriptions shipping with GameMastery Modules subscriptions—they're getting Pathfinder 1, Player's Guides, and Module D2. Right now, we're working on the biggest group, which is charter subscribers without Modules subscriptions—so folks who are getting Pathfinder 1 and the Player's Guide. After that, we'll do the folks who chose Pathfinder as their transition option, but haven't yet signed up for ongoing subscriptions—they're getting only Pathfinder 1. In each group, shipments are sorted by zone, with the ones that have to travel the furthest going out first. The whole process, we estimate, will take around 13 hours of printing, so it won't be finished tonight.
International shipments (including APO/FPO addresses) are a little trickier. While domestically, we can just print up a bunch of postage labels simultaneously, and then stick them on prepacked envelopes, international shipments all require customs forms, so we have to drop them into our standard fulfillment pipeline, which isn't as fast. So those will probably spread out over a few days as well.
We're expecting to learn from this, and will probably have some refinements for volume 2, but that's how it's working for volume 1.
Oh, and why this thread is titled "PDF for UK/European subscribers"? Isn't UK in Europe anymore? ;->
OT: Actually, from what I've heard from British friends a lot of people in the UK don't consider themselves part of Europe. For example, they are going to Europe on holiday... :)
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If I was to recommend an enhancement to the process, I would decouple the posted versions from the issuance of the pdf's. It is slightly ridiculous in this modern age that we have to wait for someone to slap a sticky label on a parcel before we get access to a pdf which has been sitting on the servers for a couple of days at least.
I'm certainly no expert, and I really appreciate all of the effort taken by Paizo to (a) produce a great product and (b) keep us informed of what is going on. I also appreciate that this is a big deal for a relatively small company. But it strikes me that possibly the tech isn't being used as well as maybe it could.
CEO
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I don't think you're waiting for an adhesive label. It has more to do with paying for the product. Since Paizo won't charge you until they're ready to ship, and the PDF is a bonus item related to the purchase, that introduces some delay.
Given that they're shipping thousands of these things, charging everyone up front ends up as a logistical nightmare. Then, instead of "where's my PDF" threads, we'd have "why did you charge me 8 days before you shipped my stuff?" Add to that the fact that billing something as a discrete process from packing/shipping is likely to introduce more complexity and confusion into the shipping process, and you end up exactly where we are today - billing is done when the product is ready to leave the warehouse, and the PDF is released at that point.
Brent is right on target with what he said. I just want to add that charging somebody before the product ships is also against the VISA and Mastercard rules and if we did it and were caught, we could have our rights to take VISA and Mastercard revoked. Which would make for a pretty lame online store. :) So as much as it hurts to have to wait, there isn't much we can do about it at this stage.
-Lisa
I just want to add that charging somebody before the product ships is also against the VISA and Mastercard rules and if we did it and were caught, we could have our rights to take VISA and Mastercard revoked. Which would make for a pretty lame online store. :) So as much as it hurts to have to wait, there isn't much we can do about it at this stage.
(I'm rudely participating in this thread even though I'm neither from the UK nor European. My apologies.)
Could there be an option for the future then where we non-Americans pay for the pdf and have the print copy thrown in for free or something? We're all (as far as I can tell) happy to give you our money and wait as long as it takes to get the print copy. We just want the PDF. Obviously we don't want Paizo to get in any trouble; we just want to pay for our stuff and download it.
How are UK/Europeans (and rude foreigners who highjack their threads) treated if they only subscribe to the PDF versions of Pathfinder? Am I safe in assuming that those customers already have their copies? Can we piggyback on that system somehow?
Well, the main reason we are whining here in Europe is that we are fighting withdrawal symptoms from the still missing Dungeon and Dragon magazines. A Pathfinder PDF would sure help with that :)
We just want the PDF. Obviously we don't want Paizo to get in any trouble; we just want to pay for our stuff and download it.
Lisa, you should really be proud of your customers, who desperately want to pay you in advance just to be able to download a pdf!
And, if I can add my 2 cents, you should be also VERY proud of Gary, Vic and all other Paizo staff who are doing such a great job getting everything in place. Maybe you could raise their wages? Or better yet, give them the possibility to come to Gen Con next year ;-)
And, if I can add my 2 cents, you should be also VERY proud of Gary, Vic and all other Paizo staff who are doing such a great job getting everything in place. Maybe you could raise their wages? Or better yet, give them the possibility to come to Gen Con next year ;-)
Actually, I think giving them a week away from the mewling hordes of fans clamoring for their stuff is richly deserved (especially the online staff!).
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Brent is right on target with what he said. I just want to add that charging somebody before the product ships is also against the VISA and Mastercard rules and if we did it and were caught, we could have our rights to take VISA and Mastercard revoked. Which would make for a pretty lame online store. :) So as much as it hurts to have to wait, there isn't much we can do about it at this stage.
-Lisa
I stand corrected.
I suppose the reason we're so anxious to get pathfinder is that we haven't received Dungeon 149 or 150 yet. We're not used to going this long without some paizo goodness.
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CEO
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How are UK/Europeans (and rude foreigners who highjack their threads) treated if they only subscribe to the PDF versions of Pathfinder? Am I safe in assuming that those customers already have their copies? Can we piggyback on that system somehow?
As far as I know, there isn't a PDF only option for subscribing to Pathfinder. If you want to buy the PDF, you have to wait for the street date. Which I believe is in a week or so.
We'll work on the system and find a way to get things to folks quicker. I promise that it will only get better as we get into future issues.
-Lisa
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CEO
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And, if I can add my 2 cents, you should be also VERY proud of Gary, Vic and all other Paizo staff who are doing such a great job getting everything in place. Maybe you could raise their wages? Or better yet, give them the possibility to come to Gen Con next year ;-)
I AM proud of my staff. And Vic was at GenCon this year, manning the cash registers all weekend alongside me. If Gary went to GenCon, we couldn't run on registers, since he stays back home and squashes bugs that crop up. I think what Gary needs is that vacation that he keeps hinting at. :)
-Lisa
Ok. It's nearly Midnight over here in the UK and I was wondering what the chances are of waking up and finding an email allowing access to the download ?
I'm going into hospital for a while (starting 10.15am tomorrow) and I'm desperate to have the PDF to read and then cogitate upon whilst unpleasant things are done to me. This is some kind of torture !!
The worst part is knowing some guys have it and are posting about it on other threads !!
What's the Likely ETA if not tomorrow ? (By tomorrow I mean the 8/22)
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Chief Technical Officer
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Except I paid for Pathfinder months ago. I was a subscriber to both Dungeon and Dragon and I am getting the first eight issues of Pathfinder to cover the payments I have already made to you. So for me and presumably many others of the international people waiting for PF1 there is no payment issue involved.
But creating two separate processes to fulfill different parts of people's orders would make the process take longer for everyone. We've implemented fulfillment in the way that we believe will get the most people handled as quickly as we can.
That said, for Pathfinder 2, we hope to modify things so that non-US subscribers are handled simultaneously with US subscribers.
As for Pathfinder 1, we hope to process a lot of the non-US subscriptions tomorrow. We haven't done it before, so I can't say if we'll get to "most" or "all," but rest assured, we're going as fast as we can.
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Chief Technical Officer
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As far as I know, there isn't a PDF only option for subscribing to Pathfinder.
Given that the PDFs are $13.99—the same as the subscriber cost for the hardcopy+PDF—you can think of subscribing as buying the PDF every month and getting the print edition for the cost of shipping. (Which can be had for no more than $5 anywhere in the world, by the way.)
As far as I know, there isn't a PDF only option for subscribing to Pathfinder.Given that the PDFs are $13.99—the same as the subscriber cost for the hardcopy+PDF—you can think of subscribing as buying the PDF every month and getting the print edition for the cost of shipping. (Which can be had for no more than $5 anywhere in the world, by the way.)
Great! Then there shouldn't be a problem with Visa or whoever saying that you can't bill us for something before it ships; bill us right away (for issue number two, or whatever) and then send us our print copy whenever the customs stuff gets sorted out. Then we'll be able to read our PDF the same day as everyone else. :)
Thanks for all your hard work with this, and I look forward to seeing Pathfinder #1 whenever it's sorted out. I know that this is new to everyone and I apologize if I've been impatient.
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Chief Technical Officer
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bill us right away (for issue number two, or whatever) and then send us our print copy whenever the customs stuff gets sorted out.
...and that means we'd have to go through the queue twice, which means the whole process would take longer.
We'll fix it by making changes that let us process the international subs simultaneously with the domestic subs. (Two queues once is better than one queue twice!)
We'll fix it by making changes that let us process the international subs simultaneously with the domestic subs. (Two queues once is better than one queue twice!)
Woohoo! Thanks!
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As far as I know, there isn't a PDF only option for subscribing to Pathfinder.Given that the PDFs are $13.99—the same as the subscriber cost for the hardcopy+PDF—you can think of subscribing as buying the PDF every month and getting the print edition for the cost of shipping. (Which can be had for no more than $5 anywhere in the world, by the way.)
Can't beat that with a stick, not even a digital stick.
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But creating two separate processes to fulfill different parts of people's orders would make the process take longer for everyone. We've implemented fulfillment in the way that we believe will get the most people handled as quickly as we can.
That said, for Pathfinder 2, we hope to modify things so that non-US subscribers are handled simultaneously with US subscribers.
As for Pathfinder 1, we hope to process a lot of the non-US subscriptions tomorrow. We haven't done it before, so I can't say if we'll get to "most" or "all," but rest assured, we're going as fast as we can.
I know Paizo is a small company, so resources are limited, but....
Was it such a good idea to wait until August to do all the code? You know you were launching this months ago. I know Gary is a really, really busy guy, so I guess it panned out that way. And I know you haven't taken any money either. Bu I'm sure some of us can't help feeling slightly agrieved that we are waiting for an email after signing up months in advance, when others have had their PDFs for a couple of days now who possibly took the plunge a couple of days ago. I'm sure you are aware that this isn't too slick.
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Me too - they are generally very responsive to their customers and produce high quality products. But they created massive anticipation among their clientele for Pathfinder..... And where is it? I'm also pretty cheesed off about being dealt with second becuase I'm not in the US. Excuse me, but doesn't my hardcopy version actually take longer to reach me already?
Paizo are used to receiving glowing feedback, and deservedly so. I'm trying to be constructive. Even if this is what you intended, this is looking like a fiasco to me, the customer.
It may not help things, but the way I see it is that the International products will be at your inbox considerably faster than Dungeon/Dragon would ever take to make it to your mailbox.
Just a little patience. I'm sure someone has considerable papercuts from those cardboard mailers!
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I know Paizo is a small company, so resources are limited, but....Was it such a good idea to wait until August to do all the code? You know you were launching this months ago. I know Gary is a really, really busy guy, so I guess it panned out that way. And I know you haven't taken any money either. Bu I'm sure some of us can't help feeling slightly agrieved that we are waiting for an email after signing up months in advance, when others have had their PDFs for a couple of days now who possibly took the plunge a couple of days ago. I'm sure you are aware that this isn't too slick.
I read elsewhere that Gary has been coding for this since April. However, since we've asked for combined shipping with GameMastery and then combined with GameMastery Subscriptions, he has had to do a lot of rework in the coding.
So if WE hadn't asked for all the extra stuff then all the coding would have been done WAY before GenCon.
In the mean time, I'll just patiently await my PDF.
Is there any solid ETA for the delivery of the PDF to international subscribers? or is just still "a few days"?
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And where is it? I'm also pretty cheesed off about being dealt with second becuase I'm not in the US.
Talking about perception...
I'm an international subscriber as well and if I don't get this thing soon the tension will make me explode but I actually do not feel being dealt with second just because I'm not in the US.Paizo's done twice the work since they knew about the end of Dungeon and Dragon mags and they decided to launch Pathfinder/GameMastery as their new Product line. This is a lot of work to do especially if your ressources are limited and you cannot afford to expand your staff.
In all this time they were more than responsive to us and tried to modify their plans according to our wishes. And while this is really great when it comes to user-friendliness, it is really bad for the lonely person whos has to modify the code to achieve this user-friendliness.
I don't wonder much about those bugs that have slowed down the whole process. That's what happens when you're the only programmer for any kind of code. I don't like it to happen but in fact I did expect some kind of problems.
But I really appreciate Gary's (and all other Paizonian's) efforts to keep us informed about the problems as well as about the reasons to decide things the way they have been decided.
I understand that Paizo tries to get the pdfs out to as much fans as possible as fast as possible. And given that the main market is the U.S., I understand why it is there that they focus first. That is not about us international fans being second, it actually is about user-friendliness.
As I said before I may be exploded before the pdf reaches my email-box. But that they have promised to modify the process to get us dealt with simultansuosly is all I need to calm down a bit.
And this is exactly the kind of thing I'have come to appreciate (and in fact to expect) from Paizo. They react much faster to the criticism of their customer-base than most other companies would, even if the reasons which created the criticism mainly originated from having limited ressources.
Oooh, i feel the tension build again....
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And where is it? I'm also pretty cheesed off about being dealt with second becuase I'm not in the US.
Talking about perception...
I'm an international subscriber as well and if I don't get this thing soon the tension will make me explode but I actually do not feel being dealt with second just because I'm not in the US.
All very true, as is the rest of your post. I know it's not a conspiracy or subtle vengeance for "oppression" in the colonial era (if Paizo were based in Boston, I might wonder). I'm really blowing off some steam. But the communications haven't been as good as normal, which has raised expectations. Logging in for several days hoping to see the pdf and not is deeply frustrating. Paizo's main problem in this is probably an element of over-promising - i.e. giving the impression we will get it the next day, er, ok, maybe the one after that, er, no, maybe the day after, and so on. And I know it isn't incompetence or laziness - I know Gary hasn't had a holiday for ages and Vic seems to be online 24/7 - but a genuine desire to get us the pdfs and the hard copies in the post.
Paizo is a company to cherish. But it isn't perfect. There is a big element of basic frustration in my posts, to be sure, but there are probably lessons to be learnt from this. I think my comments are valid, in as much as they are how I feel and how things appear to me as a customer. That is feedback and valuable, possibly more so, than the deserved pats on the back Paizo generally get. You don't really learn anything when everything is going well.
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Logging in for several days hoping to see the pdf and not is deeply frustrating.
How true.
Paizo's main problem in this is probably an element of over-promising - i.e. giving the impression we will get it the next day, er, ok, maybe the one after that, er, no, maybe the day after, and so on.
I'm a great fan of what I call the Blizzard-approach: "It is done when it's done." But I assume that it is much more easier to take this stance if you are a big company with a long and successful history.
It might have helped a lot if there was an centralized announcement thread where all update messages were collected. I see a lot of questions asked that actually have been answered in another thread. At the moment I'm likely to miss one of those updates which adds to the frustrationThat is feedback and valuable, possibly more so, than the deserved pats on the back Paizo generally get. You don't really learn anything when everything is going well.
I absolutely agree.
I'm an international subscriber as well and if I don't get this thing soon the tension will make me explode but I actually do not feel being dealt with second just because I'm not in the US.
The fact is that we are dealt with second because we do not live in US.
Paizo are probably doing their best and overall processing might well be faster due to this grouping.
But of course people get annoyed when they are treated "second class" because they did not go to Gen Con or happen to live on another continent.
So while I can logically understand and accept their priorities, I am still annoyed. I am sure most grumpy old men feel the same way.
Well, I for one would like to have the pdf right now, but fortunately last dragon and dungeon issues arrived to my mailbox, so with these two and my Civil War comicbooks I have my reading needings covered :D
Anyway, good Paizo people, hurry up! We are all eager to start our adventuring in Sandpoint...
daedel, el azote.
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Can't remember when I have been called "young" for the last time so I take this as a compliment (I'm not quite sure though, having seen some of your other, more sarcastic posts ;) ).
So, and now for another thing. Has anyone seen this Pett guy? I would so like to hear what he has to say about the England-Germany match at the new Wembley Stadium which has just finished an hour ago. Don't think he had as great a time as I had, but maybe he'd like to join the choir the Englanders respectfully intone every time we come visit them at their holy sportsground:
It's coming home, it's coming home
It's coming, football's coming home...
P.S. Richard, if you actually should read this, you should know that around 10 minutes after the match had started I would never have thought that I could post something like that at the end. And in fact the same goes for the second half of the match. We had soooo much luck ;)
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Northwindspirit I might have to visit you and take a peek at this PDF. Exeter isn't it? 12 miles from me.
Paizo/Wayne Reynolds comment from wife = thats the best desktop image I have seen, comment made about PF3 cover. To get a compliment like that is high praise in my household.
High praise indeed.
Cheers
Personally I think the whole thing (in the sense of people getting upset about what is, really, quite a short delay in the grand scheme of things) has been blown a bit out of proportion by the high degree of anticipation generated for the product, which I sincerely hope lives up to its billing.
Well, I think that has less to do with the actual delay of Pathfinder and more to do with the missing issues of Dungeon and Dragon. After waiting in vain for two months for the magazines you could get a bit touchy when a delay occurs with Pathfinder as well, since that was the oasis in the desert.
