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Grappling, Engulfment, Oozes, and Infuriation


D&D 3.5/d20/OGL

Cheliax RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

We had quite the gaming nightmare this weekend. A friend of mine who is fairly new to DMing (having only run 2 or 3 games before) started up a game about two weeks ago. We've been playing it on a weekly basis and found ourselves in a dungeon this last Saturday. One of the encounters was an ooze (whatever the CR 3 one is) that blocked our only egress from a dead-end hallway. The rules got ugly and none of us, not even the veterans, knew exactly how to deal with this thing. I turn to the boards now for help.

Engulf is a standard action. The ooze uses this ability by moving into your square. You get to choose to either take an AoO or make a Reflex save. If you choose the attack, you automatically get consumed by the ooze after resolving the AoO. If you choose to save, you get pushed out of the way if you are successful.

Now, when a creature is engulfed, is it treated as a grapple? Does the ooze need to continue making grapple checks against the creature inside to deal damage? How many creatures can an ooze engulf at the same time? Is it like Swallow Whole? Most infuriating of all, are there rules for attacking into a grapple printed anywhere? Is it any different from attacking into melee? We couldn't find any, so the DM ruled that any attack against the ooze has a 50% chance of hitting the person inside as well (whether ranged or melee, it didn't matter). I think that's a little steep, especially considering that the ooze was a size category larger than we were (two size categories larger than my halfling).

Oozes are such a nightmare. Any help is greatly appreciated. This DM is one of those 'by the book' sorts so, if you can list page numbers and books to reference, it would be a godsend. Thanks!


I think this is another one of those "iconic" critters that didn't get the attention it needed in the 2nd to 3rd ed switch. IMC, we fought gelatinous cubes, and had many of the same issues. FWIW, we ruled:
1. Engulfed is the same as being PINNED, not just grappled.
2. Other PCs can freely attack the cube, since it is some much bigger than the likely victim.
3. Melee attacks into a grapple have no penalties, per RAW. Ranged is the 50/50 thing, but since the engulfed critter is, well, engulfed, I don;t think it would apply.

Mostly house rules, since as you pointed you, there is no RAW for this one.


I don't think engulfment is really a word.

... that's all I've got.


According to Webster's 11th Edition dictionary 'Engulfment' is indeed a word.

Osirion

Fatespinner wrote:
Now, when a creature is engulfed, is it treated as a grapple? Does the ooze need to continue making grapple checks against the creature inside to deal damage? How many creatures can an ooze engulf at the same time? Is it like Swallow Whole?
SRD wrote:

Engulf (Ex)

Although it moves slowly, a gelatinous cube can simply mow down Large or smaller creatures as a standard action. It cannot make a slam attack during a round in which it engulfs. The gelatinous cube merely has to move over the opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Opponents can make opportunity attacks against the cube, but if they do so they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a DC 13 Reflex save or be engulfed; on a success, they are pushed back or aside (opponent’s choice) as the cube moves forward. Engulfed creatures are subject to the cube’s paralysis and acid, and are considered to be grappled and trapped within its body. The save DC is Strength-based and includes a +1 racial bonus.

They are grappled, but not pinned.

It does automatic acid damage, but would need a grapple check to do other damage.

Although it isn't specifically addressed, I would say the wording of the ability implies that the engulfed creature is considered grappled, but the ooze is not.


Arctaris wrote:
According to Webster's 11th Edition dictionary 'Engulfment' is indeed a word.

oohhh BURN!

nice


Arctaris wrote:
According to Webster's 11th Edition dictionary 'Engulfment' is indeed a word.

Hunh. Ya learn something every day... Now I'm going to be looking for opportunities to use this word. :)

Me: "The engulfment of my car by the rain has left it wet."

Listener: "... shut up."

Cheliax RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Saern wrote:
Arctaris wrote:
According to Webster's 11th Edition dictionary 'Engulfment' is indeed a word.

Hunh. Ya learn something every day... Now I'm going to be looking for opportunities to use this word. :)

Me: "The engulfment of my car by the rain has left it wet."

Listener: "... shut up."

ph34r (\/)y l1ngu1s+1k 1337n3ss

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

I prefer "ensconced". Can't imagine an ooze doing it to anyone, but it's still a great word. Wonder how to make it a special attack...

Sorry - I'll just go start a favourite word thread.

Contributor

Ah, the SRD... Is there anything it can't do? :)

Cheliax RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Steve Greer wrote:
Ah, the SRD... Is there anything it can't do? :)

Watch my kid while the wife and I go to the movies?

"Okay, Ro, we're going to the movies now. You be good for the SRD, honey. SRD, don't forget to change her before bed and feed her at some point between 5 and 6 pm. We usually put her to bed at 9, but she can go down at 8 if she's being extra cranky for you. Also, don't let her eat any d20s!"


Lol, it also can't wash dishes.


*sob* It also can't love you... no matter how much you want it to! *weeps*

I'll... I'll be all right....

:P


Tonight my players and I had an encounter with gelatinous cubes. One of my players ended up casting Black Tentacles on the group of cubes. Would an ooze be subject to the grappling and damaging effects of the spell?


Disgusting mental image. That's all I am about to say about that.


Hatebreather wrote:
Tonight my players and I had an encounter with gelatinous cubes. One of my players ended up casting Black Tentacles on the group of cubes. Would an ooze be subject to the grappling and damaging effects of the spell?

Bumping since I'm the one who casted it ^-^

And the discussion needs a closing.


Any creature that enters the area of the spell is immediately attacked by the tentacles.

I would say yes.

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