Has anyone seen Randy Buehler's interview regarding Gleemax? It turns out that these guys have the rights to what was the Dragon and Dungeon magazines. Looks like their going to try and leverage that material into some kind of online gaming service.
Randy seems to have rocks in his head (mut be all the magic card playing he's done) if he thinks D&D gamers are going to shift to whatever they have in mind. So far he's been very vague about Wizards intentions for what was formerly Dungeon and Dragon and the game in general, but it seems to me that this is it for our good old game.
Randy seems to have the background to manage the Magic side of theings, but I am weary of his forray into tackling the future of how D&D material is produced and delivered. He seems to be another ill qualified Wizards hack biting off more then he can chew (see Liz Schuh).
Bye bye D&D. It's going to be a painful road to 4.0.
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Bye bye D&D. It's going to be a painful road to 4.0.
Let not your heart grow weary. The 3.5e OGL will be around forever. As long as there's sufficient demand for 3.5e material (translation: enough people still want to play it), there will be someone (hopefully Paizo) to produce/sell it.
The number of people that continue to play 3.5e in the future will be directly proportional to the suckiness of 4e.
-Skeld
Don't worry about it overmuch. There's plenty of great material coming out from OGL publishers; even though WoTC has put out some decent books in the past, what's going to keep the hobby alive are these publishers and the fresh ideas they're putting out there.
Has anyone seen Randy Buehler's interview regarding Gleemax?
For those of us who haven't, could you post a link?
El Skootro
I think this is the interview he is talking about.
I like playing Magic so insulting him for playing it ticks me off.
Let's be perfectly clear here: Wizards of the Coast hasn't said yet if Gleemax is the D&D online initiative. They might not be related.
I think it's pretty clear that they're seperate, distinct units:
Will the online initiatives that are replacing the print magazines be part of Gleemax?
Not directly. We have a lot of really good ideas that I'm aware of, but we're not ready to talk about them yet. I can clarify a little bit about the relationship between Gleemax and D&D and Magic. In 6 months, 12 months, people will look at WotC as having three big brands, we've got Magic, D&D, and we've got Gleemax. Gleemax is its own separate brand; it's a product created by Wizards of the Coast. It's a little different in that this product supports the Magic player and the D&D player and it's full of a bunch of features and tools sets that support gamers of all shapes and sizes, but it is its own brand and its own product produced by Wizards of the Coast. That's the relationship. D&D will still have its own web presence, D&D will still do its own thing, but there will be a lot of cross references with Gleemax. We'll be trying to drive Gleemax customers over to the D&D Website, and we'll be trying to drive D&D players over to the Gleemax Website, but they're not the same thing--they are distinct initiatives.
It seems to me that they may fold some of the DI into Gleemax but that the next incarnation of Dungeon and Dragon will be different. And yes, I hate the god awful black/neon green color scheme. But I also hate the enworld color scheme, so go figure.
El Skootro
Yeah, the color scheme gives me a headache too.
As far as I can tell, Gleemax is not the digital initiative, although I see a few possibilities for tie-ins. I think Gleemax is mostly aimed at new young gamers. Communities like Paizo and ENworld seem to attract more mature gamers over all, leaving few places for young gamers. And wizards knows they need new blood in order to keep earning a living.
Oh, and Tim, by the way, try to tone down the insults.
Let's be perfectly clear here: Wizards of the Coast hasn't said yet if Gleemax is the D&D online initiative. They might not be related.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't seem to have said anything of value regarding the online initiative.
It's almost as if there's no plan, all this time after the decision was made :/
I'm a young gamer in both senses, I'm 15 and I've been playing for only a year. I visited it (gleemax) for a short while and was not impressed. It seemed to be the same stuff as WotC (one of my least favorite companies) and my guess is that the online community will be the same as the one on the WotC boards (the phrase "a hive of scum and vilany" comes to mind). The "online community for gamers" my ass.
Oh, and he color scheme made my eyes hurt.
Check out what I just called the site ON the site.
Please don't pig pile... I just wanted to come up with it first, not start a hate cascade.
Oh, I might as well just say it here: .
that was funny, i just read that post on uglymax.
i keep going back, its kind of like a train wreck. i keep hoping that they will have something useful. something that i can use for my game. i have downloaded tons of stuff from the WoC d&d site, and the d20 modern site. but so far, i have seen nothing but posts on it, i havent read anything useful, i see that they had some sort of contest going on, but i missed that. they have some sort of pbp games. which isnt very useful for me. i dont know. it seems like a lot of bs so far.
is there any content?
its talking about having a personal web page, i suppose thats nice, but i want to download world stuff, fluff, and crunch.
i dont get it. maybe that i am way to old. or maybe i have high expectations. maybe i should get a glass of cold milk and contemplate my next step.
Thanks Don Johnson (don't worry... it's out of my system),
It looks like a website template program to me thus far. Just add content.
Ugleemax.
I like it! So it has been dubbed and ever so it shall be named.
From what I gather, it's WotC's attempt at MySpace.com or Facebook.com.
This makes perfect sence. Get people onto the (U)Gleemax website and shuffle them over to the WotC boards. Introduce interactive games that will introduce them to Star Wars/D&D.
Contributor
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't seem to have said anything of value regarding the online initiative.
I haven't seen them say much, but apparently other posters to this thread have. That's reassuring, but I wish they'd get the info out faster... :\
It's almost as if there's no plan, all this time after the decision was made :/
Actually, from what I understand, there is a plan. They just aren't talking quite yet.
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From what I have gathered, it appears as if WotC is trying to make a new Paizo-- a separate entity tied intrinsically to the brand name whose mission is to put out content specifically for that brand. Except these guys are going to be trying to do it for both D&D and M:TG simultaneously as a startup, instead of getting one product line right (AP, anyone?) and then expanding into other markets with bold but well-done marketing and planning, like Paizo did.
Dont be surprised if you find Gleemax doing something like Adventure Paths, either. It's derivative to the core, and frankly insulting to me as a consumer.
This proves to me that the real reason Paizo's license was cancelled was not for the Digital Initiative, but instead that WotC had "created a monster" in their own eyes: Paizo had been and continues to be the best producer of D&D adventure content since they took over the license. WotC realized this and instead of letting Paizo continue to make THEIR product look good and thereby sell more copies of the Core and splatbooks, they chopped it off and are trying to Frankenstein their way into the same thing.
Here's the problem: WotC doesn't have the love of the game that the Paizonians do, the DESIRE to make the best product. They have proven repeatedly that whether its the executives or not, $$$ at the expense of the game is their bottom line.
But you know what? Paizo is still going to beat you at your own game, WotCRAP. The next generation of gamers will be telling tableside stories about Rise of the Runelords, Vasisia, Desna's first appearance and how their group ran through W37: Death on the Horizon.
Mark my words, WotC. You rolled a nat 1 when you decided to cancel 30 years of gaming tradition. But fortunately, Paizo followed it up with a nat 20 of their own.
Ugleemax indeed.
Huh? Did I miss an interview?
Some may attack me as a fanboy (which actually I'm not), but I'm willing to give WoTC the benefit of the doubt for the time being. They've actually done some pretty interesting things over the past 5 years or so that have drawn my interest back into the RPG hobby: e.g. the OGL, licensing to Dungeon/Dragon to Paizo, licensing DragonLance to Margaret Weis, and they've published dozens of sourcebooks, splatbooks, and product extensions (yeah, a few stinkers, but also some fun stuff!) that have drawn me back into a hobby that I had dropped for about a decade.
You can argue that WotC is now reversing a lot of their strong decisions in the past by cancelling licenses and whatnot. I am terribly saddened to see my Dungeon and Dragon magazines discontinued (I've been collecting since 1979). And yeah, maybe some recent books haven't been what I had hoped, but the effort they're making and the risks that they're taking may actually turn out better than we imagine.
- So I'm watching the (U)GleeMax site to see what develops. I'm disappointed so far, but I'm probably not the target audience...
- I'll keep an eye out for whatever form the DI takes. We'll see...
- I've ordered Pathfinder since the Paizo boys have earned my dollars.
- I'm considering ordering Kobold Quarterly.
- And I'll keep buying interesting books that WotC publishes.
Our RPG hobby may be changing (and we all hate change), but it still appears to be thriving.
Hurm.
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I am, unfortunately, something of a pessimist. Then again, getting shot at/mortared could likely be blamed.
I REALLY want D&D to grow and thrive as a hobby and a product. It just seems like Paizo wants to water and feed it, while WotC is only interested in smoking the leaves and sifting the seeds to the bottom of the baggie.
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I am, unfortunately, something of a pessimist. Then again, getting shot at/mortared could likely be blamed.
I REALLY want D&D to grow and thrive as a hobby and a product. It just seems like Paizo wants to water and feed it, while WotC is only interested in smoking the leaves and sifting the seeds to the bottom of the baggie.
God, I miss pot-smokin'......thanks for the reminder.....
FH(rollin' the bones)
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I am, unfortunately, something of a pessimist. Then again, getting shot at/mortared could likely be blamed.
I REALLY want D&D to grow and thrive as a hobby and a product. It just seems like Paizo wants to water and feed it, while WotC is only interested in smoking the leaves and sifting the seeds to the bottom of the baggie.
God, I miss pot-smokin'......thanks for the reminder.....
FH(rollin' the bones)
Me too, but sadly those days are far behind me. If the Army wasnt good enough motivation to quit, my wife and beautiful boy certainly are. I get little enough time with them as-is. I dont want anything fogging my brain for what little time I DO get when not deployed to the Middle East.
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Me too, but sadly those days are far behind me. If the Army wasnt good enough motivation to quit, my wife and beautiful boy certainly are. I get little enough time with them as-is. I dont want anything fogging my brain for what little time I DO get when not deployed to the Middle East.I am, unfortunately, something of a pessimist. Then again, getting shot at/mortared could likely be blamed.
I REALLY want D&D to grow and thrive as a hobby and a product. It just seems like Paizo wants to water and feed it, while WotC is only interested in smoking the leaves and sifting the seeds to the bottom of the baggie.
God, I miss pot-smokin'......thanks for the reminder.....
FH(rollin' the bones)
Ditto here, except for the military thing. Stay safe, brother.
FH
Ugleemax indeed. Oh well, guess I'll just hang out on the Paizo boards.
Don't be TOO hard on Wizards. They did come up with the OGL (even if I think they could make more use of it and extend it further), and have done some good stuff (like shopping out Dungeon & Dragon to Paizo in the first place.) And quit hatin' on Magic players. We may not understand 'em, but they're people, too. While I have yet to see Wizards' master plan, I strongly suspect taking Dungeon and Dragon back from Paizo was a bad idea - but time will tell.
P.S.: Guy in Iraq - stay safe, keep your fellows safe, come back in one piece, and thank you for being there in the first place.
I had a first look at this Gleemax stuff, and did not like it. I didn´t even bother to look for any serious content, as I´m fed up with light-type-on-dark-background-sites - it´s a real eye-killer. And I don´t like the Matrix-style-try-to-lookalike-and-failed design at all. But I guess it´s not for me, anyway - I think I won´t need any "portal" for my gaming needs, thank you. Maybe I´m getting old (or are already), but this is definitely not the stuff I like.
But I´m still willing to give WotC´s DI a chance - if it starts at all.
Stefan
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I've listened intensely to everything that has been said about Gleemax, and several other posters have it right. A lot of the information is vague and incomplete, but they've come out with some information that I can share.
First of all, the Gleemax website currently in place is a place holder, not the final version of the site. This is in essence a promotion for what Gleemax will eventually become. I have gone to the website once, but I also dislike the color scheme, and the content means nothing to me. One the site was started, a number of posters began playing a 'game'. They fought against the evil Gleemax (head in a jar). I don't know, how that's going. In any case, Gleemax will be a portal to other games, and it will work like a facebook for gamers. It will also include access to board games from the Avalon Hill line and a Goblin Game. The idea here is that a paying member can 'start' a game, and that anyone visiting the site can join a game. Thus, if eventually you want to play Risk online with real people, you can join an existing game if someone starts one, and if you REALLY want to play, you'll pay extra to have the right to start games if you want. It sounds like the number of games you'll be able to start will be limited, but will be a large number. If you choose not to subscribe, you may still start a game by paying per play (like an arcade - just plop in a couple quarters).
The DI is sort of an umbrella term that includes Gleemax and other things (like D&D content). The exact form has not been revealed, but with the now released submission guidelines, it appears it will be somewhat similar to the format that existed before - there will be a collection of unrelated articles. Information about the format, whether it can be downloaded, how to purchase, etc, have not been answered. It is clear that the content will be printable.
The terms Dragon and Dungeon will be used in conjunction with the online content. More information will be released shortly after GenCon. An exact date has not been provided. Due to failures to clearly express the definition of the word 'is' and 'download', I'm not certain what 'soon' means. Or at least, I'm not sure if WotC definition is the same as mine.
In any case, I don't really care anymore. With my subscription to GameMastery and Pathfinder, I've got most of what I was missing from Dragon and Dungeon. I'll consider purchasing a real magazine again when one becomes available, but until that time, I'm completely done with WotC. What's the point of more books when they won't be supported by Pathfinder?
I'd just like to state that Gleemax is a terrible name.
It sounds like some kind of pornographic sex enhancement product.
Wait. It isn't? <Hurried sounds of The Last Rogue deleting his profile>
Check out what I just called the site ON the site.
Please don't pig pile... I just wanted to come up with it first, not start a hate cascade.
Oh, I might as well just say it here: .
Agreed. The site makes my eyes bleed. Did we not learn the lesson of the "green screen" monochrome monitors and their history of eye damage? Man, I'm dating myself with that one.
Agreed. The site makes my eyes bleed. Did we not learn the lesson of the "green screen" monochrome monitors and their history of eye damage? Man, I'm dating myself with that one.
Don't date yourself; the kids will come out retarded.
Ugleemax. Heh. Now I feel like a 14-year-old laughing at a fart joke.
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This proves to me that the real reason Paizo's license was cancelled was not for the Digital Initiative, but instead that WotC had "created a monster" in their own eyes: Paizo had been and continues to be the best producer of D&D adventure content since they took over the license. WotC realized this and instead of letting Paizo continue to make THEIR product look good and thereby sell more copies of the Core and splatbooks, they chopped it off and are trying to Frankenstein their way into the same thing.
Substitute 'TSR' for WOTC, and 'TSR UK' for Paizo, and you could be describing the situation for UK gamers from 20 years ago...
And just like 20 years ago, it blew up in the parent company's face, as a whole generation of designers and artists went straight to work for the competition; in that case, Games Workshop, which at that time was a moderately successful company with a chain of shops, a few boardgames under license, a little wargame called Warhammer, a subsidiary figure company called Citadel, and a magazine called White Dwarf. Anyone ever heard of them?
Perhaps I'm too optimistic.
Yes, the Ugleemax site should be a racket that gets a cut of all the optometrist bills of gamers. I play M:tG and D&D both. And yes, I'm bizarre. I'm still willing to wait and see what WotC comes up with. I'd prefer to bash them when there's something worth bashing. Have they screwed up in the past? Yes (not renewing their agreement with Paizo). Have they done good things in the past? Again, yes (OGL). Does this seem like a carnival game? Right now, to me, it's more like the stuff I expect from presidential candidates: lots of big words w/o substance. But I'll wait and see, because the people doing all this have brains in their heads and a desire to keep earning more money, so if this turns out to be a bomb, they'll move to fix it. In the meantime, we can all give Paizo our hard-earned cash (which they deserve). Till they tell us what they are actually doing, in plain/simple words (preferably in Americanized English, not Technicese, Legalese, B.S.-ese, or whatever language they might otherwise use), it's just not worth yelling at them over. If we all still want to be upset over the loss of Dragon and Dungeon (and I still am), that's fine. But one of the precepts of justice in this country is "innocent till proven guilty". Let them commit a crime, THEN lynch them.
First off, I completely agree with Joshua... Gleemax? That's... I... how does this in any way tie into either the D&D or M:tg brands???
It sounds more like one of those cheap carnival booths where you can play some dodgy game.
And, yes, the site is dog ugly... and, of course, not designed with any kind of adherence to web standards (i.e. it's optimized for IE). *roll eyes smiley*
The forums link to the standard Wizard boards and the picture section is just a link to Flickr. It just all seems very unprofessional and hodgypodgy put together (and apparently in a hurry too, what with everything not being contained on the same site, e.g. Flickr).