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WooT !!! Ye Gods indeed!


Pathfinder Campaign Setting General Discussion

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I like what I see on the six new gods. (Stolen from James, poor thing!) More! More!! MORE!!!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The SRD has more domains in it than the Player's Handbook. Will we be seeing the Mind domain or the Charm domain (for example) any time soon?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

tbug wrote:
The SRD has more domains in it than the Player's Handbook. Will we be seeing the Mind domain or the Charm domain (for example) any time soon?

Hmmm.... interesting.

(Goes to check SRD)

Woah! Look at that!

Yeah, you can expect to see those additional domains showing up. Frankly, the domain lists in the PHB have a lot of gaps in there that are pretty frustrating, especially when you're trying to present, say, a goddess of love and art...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What's a "starknife" (Desna's favored weapon)?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Frankly, the domain lists in the PHB have a lot of gaps in there that are pretty frustrating, especially when you're trying to present, say, a goddess of love and art...

Yeah, domains like Charm and Creation might be a good fit for that sort of portfolio.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

RogueMonkeyChief wrote:
What's a "starknife" (Desna's favored weapon)?

Yes, inquiring minds need to know.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
RogueMonkeyChief wrote:
What's a "starknife" (Desna's favored weapon)?

It sounds like some sort of throwing knife / shuriken


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
tbug wrote:
The SRD has more domains in it than the Player's Handbook. Will we be seeing the Mind domain or the Charm domain (for example) any time soon?

Judging be James's response, this is one of the best questions on the subject of Pathfinder! :D

And there's also the cloistered cleric, the racial paragons, the battle sorcerer... has a Dungeon adventure ever featured anything from UA? I don't think so, and I think it'd be really cool if Pathfinder did.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I find it intriguing how the gods presented seem to be rather non-adventurous. A farmer, a healer, an artist, a traveller, a merchant and a seaman.


Let's see the bad guys!!! Who's the god/dess of death who unleashes the restless spirits of the undead upon the world every year on the night of the harvest festival unless bonfires and offerings are made to appease him/her, and people all dress up to scare off the evil spirits! (yeah, one track mind over here. I like me teh Halloween).


Fantastic! Those gods are awesome, guys. I burn to learn more...


jasin wrote:
I find it intriguing how the gods presented seem to be rather non-adventurous. A farmer, a healer, an artist, a traveller, a merchant and a seaman.

More realistic that way. I've always wondered why the PHB doesn't have a fertility god/dess, an agricultural deity, etc.

Kudos!

Cheliax RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Chef's Slaad wrote:
RogueMonkeyChief wrote:
What's a "starknife" (Desna's favored weapon)?
It sounds like some sort of throwing knife / shuriken

Yeah, possibly something like Yuffie's weapon from FF7.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Fatespinner wrote:
Chef's Slaad wrote:
RogueMonkeyChief wrote:
What's a "starknife" (Desna's favored weapon)?
It sounds like some sort of throwing knife / shuriken
Yeah, possibly something like Yuffie's weapon from FF7.

That's actually a really good example. It's pretty close to that, but not as big. It'll be detailed (along with some other new stuff) in the Player's Guide.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

jasin wrote:
I find it intriguing how the gods presented seem to be rather non-adventurous. A farmer, a healer, an artist, a traveller, a merchant and a seaman.

Yup; that's actually a key plot point/design choice for the town of Sandpoint. They don't really have a strong military presence there, so when it starts to hit the fan, it pretty much naturally falls to the PCs to step up to the challenge.

Cheliax

Something I would like to see for the new Gods is some advice how a cleric of a particular god behaves.

What do I wear as a Priest of the sungod? Is there a doctrine? Holy days? Do I pray under the open sky or inside a temple? Is there a common prayer? What is my churchs opinon to the other gods? Is my church hierachical or are there many small sects?

The only book that gives sufficient ideas how to play a Priest is in my opinon "The Book of the Righteous" by Green Ronin. Maybe you could take this as an inspiration.


Very interesting preview. (Though I did read Saranrae as Saranwrap initially :) )

I really like the fact that they are much "realistic".

Grand Lodge

What I would like to read regarding deities is the following:

Typical praises used in relation to the gods effect on society. In the realms phrases like "may Helm watch over you", "May Torm guide you", "Shaundakul fills our sails...", "Your daughter is Blessed by Sune", or "Tymora smiles upon thee" give the world more life and it would be commonplace for clerics to preach these phrases often.

Pronunciation of deities names; Many deities have elabourate names that I have trouble getting my tongue around.

Followers dress code; Be it favored armors, colors of robes, or particular head wear, just something to identify a follower of a specific deity besides the obvious holy symbol.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Careful with the Charm domain. WotC removed the fourth-level spell.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Tharen the Damned wrote:

Something I would like to see for the new Gods is some advice how a cleric of a particular god behaves.

What do I wear as a Priest of the sungod? Is there a doctrine? Holy days? Do I pray under the open sky or inside a temple? Is there a common prayer? What is my churchs opinon to the other gods? Is my church hierachical or are there many small sects?

The only book that gives sufficient ideas how to play a Priest is in my opinon "The Book of the Righteous" by Green Ronin. Maybe you could take this as an inspiration.

At first, we'll give rough details on our deities, but we'll be going in-depth every few volumes of Pathfinder on one of them. Fans of Core Beliefs and Demonomicon will certainly recognize the style & setup of our new deity writeups.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

James Jacobs wrote:
of Core Beliefs and Demonomicon will certainly recognize the style & setup of our new deity writeups.

*Raises hand, then begins cackling maniaically*

Ah. I look forward to them.


I'm really excited about the gods and demons of your new setting, James. It's the second volume of <i>Pathfinder</i> with details on Desna, and the fourth with the write-up for Lamashtu, correct?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Christopher Adams wrote:
I'm really excited about the gods and demons of your new setting, James. It's the second volume of <i>Pathfinder</i> with details on Desna, and the fourth with the write-up for Lamashtu, correct?

That's the theory. My main idea is that for each Adventure Path, we'll pick the two deities most closely tied to that adventure path and at some point during that AP's 6-volume run, we'll do an article on each of those deities. In theory, I'd also like one to be a "good guy" and one be a "bad guy."

If we'd done this with the Dungeon Adventure Paths, you would have probably seen articles about four gods for each AP (since those ones ran for 12 installments instead of 6), and it'd probably break down as follows (some spoilers ahead for the Dungeon Adventure Paths):

Shackled City: St. Cuthbert, Wee Jas, Adimarchus, Nerull

Age of Worms: Kyuss, Hextor, Vecna, Erythnul

Savage Tide: Demogorgon, Malcanthet, Gwynharwyf, Zotzilaha

So you can see that in some cases (like Demogorgon or Kyuss) that the character chosen has a pretty strong role in the Adventure Path, but in others (like Nerull or Zotzilaha) it's a minor but still fairly important role (likely one tied to one character or one adventure).


Given that theoretical schema, James, is it correct to assume that figures of the stature of demon lords will be treated in your new setting as equivalent to deities in power and influence, if not necessarily in kind?


Speaking of cool new weapons (the Starknife portion of this thread): For those of you who have access to the BBC, what did you think of the murder weapon in the first episode of Torchwood?

Or for those who don't (though you really don't get the 3D rendering of it here): Knife.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Christopher Adams wrote:
Given that theoretical schema, James, is it correct to assume that figures of the stature of demon lords will be treated in your new setting as equivalent to deities in power and influence, if not necessarily in kind?

I like this idea.

Can demon lords ever get divine ranks?

Silver Crusade

When you do the Core Beliefs type articles on the gods can you include the role of rangers for the gods who have ranger followers. In the Core Beliefs article on Pelor there was a description of the role of clerics, paladins, and even druids but rangers seem to be forgotten as divine spellcasters.

In the Pathfinder world will druids and rangers even get their spells from the gods?


Not sure if it has been mentioned or not, but I am assuming you guys will include good examples of the Holy Symbols for each deity? I love the Forgotten realms pantheon, but in 3rd edition the holy symbols of the gods have become so complicated they would only be suitable for a painting on a shield, or a stained glass window. The Core Beliefs series of articles (which are some of my favorite articles EVER from Dragon) did a great job of depicting the trappings and holy symbols of the various Greyhawk deities. I hope you guys will continue with that great format.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

I felt the same way about Eberron's dragonmarks. How are people supposed to paint that on a shield? How is a gamer supposed to paint that on a miniature?

Yeah, we'll be providing holy symbols.

--Erik

Cheliax

mwbeeler wrote:

Speaking of cool new weapons (the Starknife portion of this thread): For those of you who have access to the BBC, what did you think of the murder weapon in the first episode of Torchwood?

Or for those who don't (though you really don't get the 3D rendering of it here): Knife.

WAAAAARGH!! NOT FAIR!!! Torhcwood hasn't made it across the pond yet. I really liked the Capt. Jack character. I'm glad they didn't abandon him.

How's that 3rd series of the Doctor goin? It hasn't started here yet. I'm just passing the time watching my classic Doctor DVD's.

SOrry...got off topic there. Cool knife design. I'll have to add that to my "to build" prop list.

Could the "Starknife" be a knife using some kind of alloy crafted from some celestial or interestellar source?

ALso I have to say that I do like the rather "Domestic" domains so far. We've been toying with the idea of PC's starting off as your everyday merchants, farmers, carpenters etc. that get conscripted or just thrown into the roll of heros. This would really help out with this idea.

Andoran

Erik Mona wrote:
I felt the same way about Eberron's dragonmarks. How are people supposed to paint that on a shield? How is a gamer supposed to paint that on a miniature?

It's the little things like this that make you guys cool. They just start adding up.

BigDaddyG wrote:
How's that 3rd series of the Doctor goin? It hasn't started here yet.

I'm digging it. :) Unfortunately no episode next week. :(

Taldor Contributor

This seemed a suitable thread to revive to say: Droskar the god of Toil is an awesome dwarf god! I hope he's pretty mainstream. What an excellent god that has hero and villain potential all rolled into one. Just tell me he's lawful neutral!

I think that this is the coolest Pathfinder thing I've seen yet.

And the forge spurned are pretty cool too.

Craig Shackleton

The Rambling Scribe


Ugh.

How about the novel approach of a gawdless game world eh ? *rolls eyes*

Dieties (deliberately mispelled) are hardly critical to a game world ... are they ?

(Personally, I've never found them necessary to play the game. Be nice to see a game world without a pantheon for change...)

Cheliax RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Turin the Mad wrote:

Ugh.

How about the novel approach of a gawdless game world eh ? *rolls eyes*

Dieties (deliberately mispelled) are hardly critical to a game world ... are they ?

(Personally, I've never found them necessary to play the game. Be nice to see a game world without a pantheon for change...)

Meh. Divine entities have been a staple of fantasy since time immemorial. So many of the core classes are tied directly and indirectly to their deities that creating a setting that completely took them out of the picture would not only require a significant amount of backfilling to define what principles the divine powers DID come from, but it would also create a very unpopular setting amongst the gaming populace. I think it is safe to say that the vast majority of gamers prefer defined faiths and deities in their games and so to exclude them would mean alienating a significant portion of their target audience. Not worth it. Keep the gods.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Deities are indeed absolutely essential to D&D. We won't be getting rid of gods any more than we'll be getting rid of dragons or dungeons or longswords or hit points.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber
Turin the Mad wrote:

Ugh.

How about the novel approach of a gawdless game world eh ? *rolls eyes*

Dieties (deliberately mispelled) are hardly critical to a game world ... are they ?

(Personally, I've never found them necessary to play the game. Be nice to see a game world without a pantheon for change...)

You could create a campaign world with no divinities, or where the gods are silent, reference Post Cataclysm-pre War of the Lance Krynn…but I don’t think it would be very sustainable and certainly not much fun, long term. I think there would need to be very certain rationales for the absence of gods, and probably some sort of divine stand-in (Great Old Ones). In the end, gods et al are too intrinsic to D&D to do away with them.

Paizo Employee Developer

Deimodius wrote:
(yeah, one track mind over here. I like me the Halloween).

Me too. Keep it up. Actually, we're less than six months away from the day and I've already been working on whittling down my six ideas for Halloween.

Paizo Employee Developer

Saern wrote:
jasin wrote:
I find it intriguing how the gods presented seem to be rather non-adventurous. A farmer, a healer, an artist, a traveller, a merchant and a seaman.

More realistic that way. I've always wondered why the PHB doesn't have a fertility god/dess, an agricultural deity, etc.

Kudos!

Totally agree! Gods are not supposed to be built for adventurers, but for the people.


James Jacobs wrote:
Deities are indeed absolutely essential to D&D. We won't be getting rid of gods any more than we'll be getting rid of dragons or dungeons or longswords or hit points.

~shrugs~ Well, if you want to use a longsword, that is ok with me. As for myself, I prefer my Mark 12 laser rifle with my combat power suit.


Andrew Turner wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:

Ugh.

How about the novel approach of a gawdless game world eh ? *rolls eyes*

Dieties (deliberately mispelled) are hardly critical to a game world ... are they ?

(Personally, I've never found them necessary to play the game. Be nice to see a game world without a pantheon for change...)

You could create a campaign world with no divinities, or where the gods are silent, reference Post Cataclysm-pre War of the Lance Krynn…but I don’t think it would be very sustainable and certainly not much fun, long term. I think there would need to be very certain rationales for the absence of gods, and probably some sort of divine stand-in (Great Old Ones). In the end, gods et al are too intrinsic to D&D to do away with them.

Andrew Turner and Fatespinner both make good points.

My point, simply, is that personal play experience up until five or six years ago was that the 'gawds' of the game world were largely ignored and successfully. Only relatively recently, mainly with the advent of 3rd edition, have I seen gawds assume more distinction.

'Course, back when, we didn't really do what many now would consider role-play. Much talking of smack, settling in-character 'disputes' (without resorting to 'roll inish monkey boy'), and such things. Guess I got lucky. <big grin>

No worries though - it is always possible to run a game without the gawds. It isn't that hard to do. ^_^


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Turin the Mad wrote:
My point, simply, is that personal play experience up until five or six years ago was that the 'gawds' of the game world were largely ignored and successfully.

I can suspend my disbelief to the point of accepting a world with magic and elves and dwarfs and all sorts of other silly things, but it would be too hard to imagine a place where nobody at all believed in any gods whatsoever. It's just too big a part of what makes people people.

In d20 terms, that's going to equal gods. As I read the SRD, once you have three hundred or so people believing that you're a god and worshipping you as such then you are a god, and gain divine rank 1. People being people, this will happen occasionally.

You could certainly change (or ignore) the rules, but changing people's inherent tendency toward belief in weird crap would be too big a change for me to swallow.

Contributor

tbug wrote:
once you have three hundred or so people believing that you're a god and worshipping you as such then you are a god, and gain divine rank 1.

I guess I _am_ a god. Huh. I knew something was different.

Osirion RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Hm...I will word this clumsily, so stay with me...

We have gotten a preview of some of the Gods that will be appearing in Pathfinder. Will there be any false gods? Since Varisia is a frontier type land, beings might "worship" all kinds of strange things in an effort to buy themselves some sense of security.

Specifically, I'm thinking of REH's take on some of the gods, like a cult that worships and sacrifices to a gigantic (possibly, but not necessarily magical) spider, ape, snake, etc. (Maybe even rivers, mountains, etc.)

Do you envision anything similar to these false religions?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Eyebite wrote:

Hm...I will word this clumsily, so stay with me...

We have gotten a preview of some of the Gods that will be appearing in Pathfinder. Will there be any false gods? Since Varisia is a frontier type land, beings might "worship" all kinds of strange things in an effort to buy themselves some sense of security.

Specifically, I'm thinking of REH's take on some of the gods, like a cult that worships and sacrifices to a gigantic (possibly, but not necessarily magical) spider, ape, snake, etc. (Maybe even rivers, mountains, etc.)

Do you envision anything similar to these false religions?

Yes.

Not sure when or where... but yeah. Stuff like that'll be in Pathfinder now and then.


You are the only god I need James Jacobs...

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jezebel wrote:
You are the only god I need James Jacobs...

Um ... Is there something that you're not telling us James ... and, er, "Jezebel" ??


Mothman wrote:
Jezebel wrote:
You are the only god I need James Jacobs...
Um ... Is there something that you're not telling us James ... and, er, "Jezebel" ??

Nothing to talk about yet...but if James is willing, so am I. What do you say Mr. Jacobs. Can I worship you?

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

My wife is ready to ground me,

"Two weeks, no Paizo!"

for stalking Jezebel on the message boards...


Andrew Turner wrote:

My wife is ready to ground me,

"Two weeks, no Paizo!"

for stalking Jezebel on the message boards...

I don't mind Andrew.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Andrew Turner wrote:

My wife is ready to ground me,

"Two weeks, no Paizo!"

for stalking Jezebel on the message boards...

Hey, I was stalking Ni - I mean Jezebel!

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