How many lawyers / law students are there here?


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Liberty's Edge

Just how many of us Paizo fans are lawyers or law students? I'm currently a 2L in La (looking to go into tax law), and I never expected to meet anyone else who shared my favorite hobby.

Imagine my surprise to discover that there are a number of lawyers or fellow law students on these boards. Further imagine my surprise to discover one of my schools Con law/civ proc professors is also a D&D player. Im really beginning to wonder...

So if anyone is interested in sharing their legal background I'd be greatly interested.


~wicked grin~ that is because most of you all are also Rules Lawyers! ~grins~ Nope. I am not a Lawyer or Law student. Keep up the good work you all!

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

There's around 3-5 regulars on the boards. Fizzban and PulpCrucifiction are in law school, Ashenvale (assuming I got his name right - and I have the funny feeling I didn't) is a retired lawyer, Crazy Duck is a lawyer, and so am I.

Are you in LA = Los Angeles or LA = Lousiana? What law school?

Liberty's Edge

Louisiana, my wife (who games with me) and I are are attending LSU. Not sure what happens after we graduate though, could end up anywhere in the USA.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Forgottenprince wrote:
Louisiana, my wife (who games with me) and I are are attending LSU. Not sure what happens after we graduate though, could end up anywhere in the USA.

For what it's worth, partnership tax is probably the most lucrative taxation area and generally under-served. All of the big hedge funds/private equity funds are built as partnerships, and the tax concerns drive a lot of their formation and activities.

Are you getting common law or civil law? (LA is the only civil law state, right?)

Liberty's Edge

Sharoth wrote:
~wicked grin~ that is because most of you all are also Rules Lawyers! ~grins~ Nope. I am not a Lawyer or Law student. Keep up the good work you all!

Funny thing is in the games I've played (as opposed to DM'd) I've been actively consulted on the rules. More like a D&D legal digest than and advocate. I've actually argued for the rules in a way where the just result was my character's death!

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:

For what it's worth, partnership tax is probably the most lucrative taxation area and generally under-served. All of the big hedge funds/private equity funds are built as partnerships, and the tax concerns drive a lot of their formation and activities.

Are you getting common law or civil law? (LA is the only civil law state, right?)

Partnership Tax is next semester, 4th class with the same professor. I was an accounting major in undergrad and I did well in this area, so I'm hoping next semester goes smoothly too.

La. is the only "civil law" state, btu we're really a mixed jurisdiction. Criminal code is more common law, civil code is more civiliian.

I'm getting a JD and BCL, LSU offers degrees in both but I pay for it 5 extra class hours and required civil law classes.

Liberty's Edge

Count me in. I'm a government attorney for an Indian tribe in the Southwest.


Yup I'm in law school in TN. I think I'm going to focus on making deals for the devil to get mortals to sign over their souls, so I guess that makes it contractual law. Actually I'm want to focus on international law more than anything, but crimial, contractual, or real estate wouldn't be too bad if I decide to stay around TN. I haven't decided which why I want to go. I'm in the end of my first year.

Fizz

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Transactional law is the terminology Fizz, no one says contractual law. ;-)

Edit: (Unless its a licensing agreement, in which case, it's licensing. There's not really a generic field of "contractual" law.)


You all are evil, soulless monsters! Evil I tell you! Utterly beyond reproach and redemption!

~thoughtful look~ Can I become your minion?

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
Transactional law is the terminology Fizz, no one says contractual law. ;-)

See down here, a transactional lawyer is one who never goes to court. Then again, we don't have "contracts" in Louisiana, we have "obligations".

Liberty's Edge

Sharoth wrote:

You all are evil, soulless monsters! Evil I tell you! Utterly beyond reproach and redemption!

~thoughtful look~ Can I become your minion?

::puzzled look:: Do you mean a paralegal or a summer intern? (j/k)

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Forgottenprince wrote:


See down here, a transactional lawyer is one who never goes to court. Then again, we don't have "contracts" in Louisiana, we have "obligations".

Yup, that's us. Tax is (generally) a transactional practice as well. Still, transactional is the terminology used for someone who largely negotiates/drafts contracts (or obligations, you civil law freak). I've never heard the term contractual law (except maybe at the very bottom of the market, when you've got guys who do slip-and-fall, estate planning, and that type of thing. They might use it).

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Forgottenprince wrote:

::puzzled look:: Do you mean a paralegal or a summer intern? (j/k)

Summer intern is the best job ever.

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
Still, transactional is the terminology used for someone who largely negotiates/drafts contracts (or obligations, you civil law freak).

Don't make me laugh like that, I nearly choked trying not to spray my legal professions notes with Coke.


Hi, guys.
I don't post much but I lurk a lot.
I wanted to chime in to say that I just passed the Minnesota bar and will be sworn in on May 11.
So add me to the ranks!

Liberty's Edge

Lawyers are scary...


I am graduating from Baylor Law on Saturday (assuming I didn't just fail an exam).


My father is a patent attorney. He still holds out hope that I'll go to law school. Poor guy.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

James Keegan wrote:
My father is a patent attorney. He still holds out hope that I'll go to law school. Poor guy.

Having snooped around your website James, I must say that you have too much talent and good humor to go to law school. I really dig your work and your posts.


I graduated from the University of Missouri - Kansas City School of Law last year. I take the Missouri bar exam this July. I'm currently working as a legal assistant for a small firm in KC. I'd like to do some intellectual property related stuff (copyright mostly, not patent) or perhaps sports law (which is a mishmash of other areas).

I try not to be a rules lawyer when playing, but I do enjoy playing by the rules if that makes any sense.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Development

Is this a way to work on material for yet another really bad lawyer joke?


Forgottenprince wrote:

Just how many of us Paizo fans are lawyers or law students? I'm currently a 2L in La (looking to go into tax law), and I never expected to meet anyone else who shared my favorite hobby.

Imagine my surprise to discover that there are a number of lawyers or fellow law students on these boards. Further imagine my surprise to discover one of my schools Con law/civ proc professors is also a D&D player. Im really beginning to wonder...

So if anyone is interested in sharing their legal background I'd be greatly interested.

I'm a lawyer. I work in civil litigation. But I'm not a "rules lawyer" in the game. I figure Rule 0 is the most important rule. I'm not sure why anyone would be interested in tax law, but I'm glad you guys are out there. I didn't even study tax in law school other than estate and gift tax. *shrug*

But yeah, I'm a huge Paizo fan. Even more so in light of recent events.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Wow, I didn't realize there were so many of us bloodsuckers on the boards. Scary...

Edit: And how is it that you all are in the south? I swear, Ashenvale, I hate oozes and I are about the only yanks in the bunch.


Sebastian wrote:

Wow, I didn't realize there were so many of us bloodsuckers on the boards. Scary...

Edit: And how is it that you all are in the south? I swear, Ashenvale, I hate oozes and I are about the only yanks in the bunch.

I always have heard of the charming southern lawyer. Huh who knows I think it has more to do with politics than law in itself. I kind of see law as a gateway to political office. Can we say William Jefferson Clinton aka Slick Willie? Johnnie Cochran is also from the south. It's ok I'm sure ya'll Yankees are great lawyers, but our accent works wonders in a place of law and on women to.

Fizz

Oh and Sebastian I would let you be my lawyer any time even if your a Yankee

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Fizzban wrote:


I always have heard of the charming southern lawyer. Huh who knows I think it has more to do with politics than law in itself. I kind of see law as a gateway to political office. Can we say William Jefferson Clinton aka Slick Willie? Johnnie Cochran is also from the south. It's ok I'm sure ya'll Yankees are great lawyers, but our accent works wonders in a place of law and on women to.

I had a friend in law school with a smooth Texas drawl, not a twang. In mock trial events, he'd cozy right up to the jury and practically peel off the "I'm just a simple country fellow" from To Kill a Mockingbird. It was an amazing talent.

Fizzban wrote:
Oh and Sebastian I would let you be my lawyer any time even if your a Yankee

Thanks. I would say likewise, but it'd be a breach of ethics to hire someone that hasn't graduated law school yet or passed the bar. ;-)


Sebastian wrote:

I had a friend in law school with a smooth Texas drawl, not a twang. In mock trial events, he'd cozy right up to the jury and practically peel off the "I'm just a simple country fellow" from To Kill a Mockingbird. It was an amazing talent.

Fizzban wrote:
Oh and Sebastian I would let you be my lawyer any time even if your a Yankee
Thanks. I would say likewise, but it'd be a breach of ethics to hire someone that hasn't graduated law school yet or passed the bar. ;-)

Yeah I really do enjoy coming off as a simple young man who grew up on a cotton farm. I never appreciated being called a hick when I was younger, but it does have it’s pluses now that I'm older. People just assume I'm uneducated, they talk down to me, then they get blind sided.

I also have gotten into the habit of saying "that dog don't hunt" any time I'm explaining things. I think we are just good at jack tales.

Actions are sometimes performed in a masterly and most cunning way (Fyodor Dostoevsky)

Fizz

Dark Archive

I'm just finishing up my 3L year now up in Boston (I've had one professor here that I suspect has had some experience with gaming, but no proof of it). I'm originally from NJ, but I'll be transplanting down to the South with the rest of the Paizo legal community in the fall, working for the litigation department of a big firm in Atlanta.

I'm also actually not much of a rules-lawyer when gaming. It's partially because I subscribe to Rule Zero and think that things should serve the story, but it's also because I basically dropped out of gaming for four years just before 3e was released, so by the time I got back into it there were other people in the group more suited to rules-lawyering than myself.

Now that we're in a more appropriate forum, Sebastian, can I ask where you went to school and how long you've been with your firm? I'm also curious as to how the workload shifts over time - that seems like the kind of thing they keep under wraps while summer associates are around. Yikes, I hope these questions don't make me sound like a poster on the AutoAdmit boards.

Liberty's Edge

Daigle wrote:
Is this a way to work on material for yet another really bad lawyer joke?

I had though about making some kind of lawyer joke (I collect them btw) but decided it would be non-PC of me ::waits for the ensuing groans::

Liberty's Edge

Kelvar Silvermace wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone would be interested in tax law, but I'm glad you guys are out there. I didn't even study tax in law school other than estate and gift tax. *shrug*

Tax law isn't for everyone, especially with how bloated out Internal Revenue Code has gotten. But remember I was an accounting major so numbers can be fun for me. On the other hand, taxation touches on every single other aspect of society or your participation therein. From domestic and foreign policy, to encouraging or discouraging certain transactions/behaviour, tax law is one of the deadlier tools a government has. Even the first Chief Justice of the USSC stated "the power to tax is the power to destroy".

You name an event in a persons life and I guarantee I can find some aspect that tax law touches.

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
And how is it that you all are in the south? I swear, Ashenvale, I hate oozes and I are about the only yanks in the bunch.

It might be that there are just more lawyers who play D&D in the South... Or at least visit Paizo on a regular basis.

Liberty's Edge

Fizzban wrote:
I also have gotten into the habit of saying "that dog don't hunt" any time I'm explaining things.

You're kind of scaring me here Fizz, my 1st semester torts/3rd semester evidence professor uses that expression all the time. He currently holds the distinction of giving me the two lowest grades in lawschool so far (or ever for that matter). I thought it was just a Louisiana thing...

He's also fond of saying "If the law says that, then the law is an @**," but he can't remember where he got that one from. (Oliver Twist FYI).


Add another lawyer to the mix. I practice mostly criminal defense, and a little family law, and I am in Missouri. I don't know if you count that as the South or not Sebastian.


The laws I dabble with are more those of Newton, Einstein, Pasteur, Dalton et al. And I prefer trying to break them. I guess that makes me a Chaos student (or possibly Lawful Evil, as I try to replace existing laws with new ones defined by me).


Forgottenprince wrote:
Fizzban wrote:
I also have gotten into the habit of saying "that dog don't hunt" any time I'm explaining things.

You're kind of scaring me here Fizz, my 1st semester torts/3rd semester evidence professor uses that expression all the time. He currently holds the distinction of giving me the two lowest grades in lawschool so far (or ever for that matter). I thought it was just a Louisiana thing...

He's also fond of saying "If the law says that, then the law is an @**," but he can't remember where he got that one from. (Oliver Twist FYI).

LOL a judge that's a friend of the family says it all the time. I stole it from him when I was a teenager. I knew there was a reason I liked Louisiana.

Fizz

Liberty's Edge

magdalena thiriet wrote:
The laws I dabble with are more those of Newton, Einstein, Pasteur, Dalton et al.

I prefer Murphy's.

Anyway, as a library assistant/part-time camp counselor, I come into contact with rules a lot (laws, too, but rules are cooler). My personal favorite:

The oft-cited, oft-broken Rule #6: DON'T BE STUPID.


Forgottenprince wrote:
Fizzban wrote:
I also have gotten into the habit of saying "that dog don't hunt" any time I'm explaining things.

You're kind of scaring me here Fizz, my 1st semester torts/3rd semester evidence professor uses that expression all the time. He currently holds the distinction of giving me the two lowest grades in lawschool so far (or ever for that matter). I thought it was just a Louisiana thing...

He's also fond of saying "If the law says that, then the law is an @**," but he can't remember where he got that one from. (Oliver Twist FYI).

Our ConLaw professor says that all the time as well - and has a good number of us following suit as a result of hearing it so much. He's from East Texas, which obviously is as close as you can get to Louisiana without actually living there.


Sebastian wrote:
I had a friend in law school with a smooth Texas drawl, not a twang. In mock trial events, he'd cozy right up to the jury and practically peel off the "I'm just a simple country fellow" from To Kill a Mockingbird. It was an amazing talent.

We had a two-hour session during mock trial practice explaining the difference between saying "evidence" and "evidance". In the end, our coach gave up and just smiled everytime he heard "evidance".

Dark Archive

Forgottenprince wrote:


He's also fond of saying "If the law says that, then the law is an @**," but he can't remember where he got that one from. (Oliver Twist FYI).

The English major in me is forced to point out that the actual line is "the law is a @$$," which I don't think gets quoted quite so much. I even got to play Mr. Bumble in our high school production of "Oliver!," but that line didn't make it into the play.

Liberty's Edge

PulpCruciFiction wrote:
Now that we're in a more appropriate forum, Sebastian, can I ask where you went to school and how long you've been with your firm?

I'm seconding this request. After all, you asked me similar things.

Liberty's Edge

PulpCruciFiction wrote:
The English major in me is forced to point out that the actual line is "the law is a @$$," which I don't think gets quoted quite so much. I even got to play Mr. Bumble in our high school production of "Oliver!," but that line didn't make it into the play.

I'm quoting my professor, who's misquoting the book. But if you're going to present the correct quote then lets proivde context. If I remember correctly, the lawyer had just finsihed explaining to Mr. Bumble that the law presumed his wife was completely under his control. To this insight into earlier english common law, Mrs Bumble responded "the law is a[n] @$$".

Liberty's Edge

texrangr35 wrote:
He's from East Texas, which obviously is as close as you can get to Louisiana without actually living there.

I think you're forgetting about Western Mississippi, they might take offense at that statement.

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