Margaret Weis Productions has announced on the Dragonlance.com site that WOTC has cancelled their rights to Dragonlance and will not renew it. Dragonlance will continue to the end of the year then revert to WOTC.
http://www.dragonlance.com/features/articles/10040.aspx
That makes Dragonlance the third casualty after Dragon and Dungeon magazines to whatever unholy that WOTC is planning.
And if WOTC thought their Dungeon / Dragon decision initiated alot of hating....
As the Chinese curse goes .... "May you live in interesting times."
I'm particularly fond of this old Chinese proverb: F+%* this s!*+.
What the heck are they doing!?! This seems like a huge attempt to move away from the more "open" thinking of WotC and the OGL and back to the "we'll sue you if you say Hit Dice" model.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
Holy s&$@.
We've now crossed the line from "WotC is planning something" and entered the land of "D&D is about to crash and burn."
They're selling it. Or they're being sold. Or something major is happening which is causing all these licenses to be revoked. This isn't 4e, Dragonlance has nothing to do with 4e. This is WotC imploding or some other nasty institutional change.
I'm scared...
~soft wistle~ Holy crap! WTF is WotC thinking? ~shakes my head~ Something is up. This is not good!
Ahhh, damn. What else are we to expect from WotC now? Ridiculous.
Holy s%!#.
We've now crossed the line from "WotC is planning something" and entered the land of "D&D is about to crash and burn."
They're selling it. Or they're being sold. Or something major is happening which is causing all these licenses to be revoked. This isn't 4e, Dragonlance has nothing to do with 4e. This is WotC imploding or some other nasty institutional change.
I'm scared...
Something serious is happening. I thought I was mad before, now I'm just shocked. Ravenloft: Okay, I can deal. Dungeon & Dragon: I'm getting a little angry. Dragonlance: Now I'm utterly confused. Gamma World is/will be next, then what? D20 getting spun off? I dunno but I think it's time for WotC to seriously examine its business practices. This is something to do OVER TIME, NOT all at once...
I agree Sebastian, I'm scared.
/d
yes this is scary stuff indeed, batten down the hatchs my friends somethink wicked this way comes.
Wizards of the Coast makes so much money from all their other games (and Hasbro, their owner, even more so), that all they'd do if they dropped D&D is incite the rage of thousands.
And why should they care? They've proven to be a cruel, heartless business in the past.
I sure hope that whatever they are doing turns out to either be really good or so bad that a more competent company can pick up D&D.
I'm gonna go on record as saying a couple things:
One of the freelancers I know has recently gained a lot more D&D work from WotC. That kind of work sugests that WotC isn't immanently planning on destroying/selling the property.
On the other hand pulling back in of all setting licences, all happening in the couple months leading up to the industry's leading con implies a couple things. Before we get there, lets look at the facts:
Now, lets use some logic:
If WotC were consolidating IP merely to sell the D&D brand, they would no longer be producing D&D minis. (caviot: unless they were able to retain the merchandising rights to DDM as well as DDO - those are two very profitable properties which I can't see any corp in their right mind giving up.)
At this point, I'd say that they're getting ready to announce a new edition sans-OGL/D20, with a "glorious return" of one or two classic settings.
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
I'm gonna go on record as saying a couple things:
One of the freelancers I know has recently gained a lot more D&D work from WotC. That kind of work sugests that WotC isn't immanently planning on destroying/selling the property.
On the other hand pulling back in of all setting licences, all happening in the couple months leading up to the industry's leading con implies a couple things. Before we get there, lets look at the facts:
Big changes in marketing and development stratagy.
The new star wars saga edition has quite a few mechanical changes, stuff I would expect to see in an OGL-compliant game like M&M or T20, rather than a direct D&D/SW product.
The next D&D minis expansion will include Dragonlance material link. Now, lets use some logic:
If WotC were consolidating IP merely to sell the D&D brand, they would no longer be producing D&D minis. (caviot: unless they were able to retain the merchandising rights to DDM as well as DDO - those are two very profitable properties which I can't see any corp in their right mind giving up.)
At this point, I'd say that they're getting ready to announce a new edition sans-OGL/D20, with a "glorious return" of one or two classic settings.
You may have a point wabbit...
I had no idea that DL was any part of WotC's strategy, if it's being used in mini's, that does suggest that the end may not be near. I couldn't think of any reason to pull back DL (it's a generic and bland campaign setting, a role FR already covers far too well), which is why I became concerned.
The freelancing stuff is neither here nor there. With the speed of these announcements and the lack of presence by WotC it could easily be a decision by WotC to divest itself of the licenses. Generally, WotC would be free to assing (or cancel) such contracts in the event the brand is sold. WotC has finally emerged from its cave to suggest that this is part of a plan, so the Hasbro doom and gloom scenario seems less likely.
Interesting...badly handled by WotC, but interesting...
Monster Manual V and Rules Compendium look like 4e foreshadowing to me.
(In addition to all the other things.)
Interesting...badly handled by WotC, but interesting...
Very poorly handled... on some levels.
On other levels, this is exactly the kind of bizzaro viral-marketing buzzchat conversation that is becoming so hip and trendy. All the rampant speculation and rumors are working for WotC right now, despite the negativity.
In other words, something smells fishier than cape cod.
In their sentimental (but insubstantial) essay on what the mags meant to Wizards employees, Scott Rouse said: "More women, more teens, more adults, more people around the world should play D&D, and I have made that my single most important goal. With that in mind, I never do anything that I feel would work counter to that goal."
Implying, of course, that putting Dungeon and Dragon online is intended to widen the fan base. Okay, I can see that line of thinking, although I think it's ultimately a dumb idea.
But I don't see how pulling in all their licenses (particularly the niche ones) helps broaden the fan base, unless the idea is to get all D&D content back under the WotC umbrella in advance of the Next New Thing.
If that's the case, it explains the silence-- that would be a pretty hard sell at this point.
It's actually exciting in an "oh f---, Micheal's going to drop the baby" kind of way.
I think the 2e to 3e transition was really well done and the game is so much better now, I couldn't imagine going back. I'm only hopeful that when they do put 4e out they'll put the quality of brains together on the team that they had in Monte, Skip and James (as opposed to the brains that made D&D Online, or the inital e-Tools launch -- does anyone else remember that fiasco?).
Honestly, if the new game is better but closed, it'll be a giant moral dilemma for me, which (as a gaming pragmati . . . coughmercenarycough) will end up after gnashing of teeth and much b&%$&ing with me playing the better game. If the game sucks, or remains open, it's an easy call-- follow the talent and buy things from the people with the good track record (Paizo, I'm looking at you).
As mad as people are right now, 4e had better kick more ass than a 14th level fighter smoking sherm in a biker bar.
As mad as people are right now, 4e had better kick more ass than a 14th level fighter smoking sherm in a biker bar.
Amen to that.
My reaction to this news was "WTF?" Sounds like WotC is battening down the hatches.
This is just making me sadder and sadder. I swear WotC are trying to make me cry...
One of my first ever PC's was an Irda White Robe wizard in DL. I think I was about 12. Lord Soth killed him with a fireball :(
Another reason WotC might want the DL IP back is the release this fall of an animated movie. If the movie does well, and renews interest in the campaign setting, WotC would be in a better position to capitalize on said interest and thus make money off of it with the IP in house. If Weis still had the license, Weis would stand to gain from the movie much more than WotC (who would only get their normal licensing fee).
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
|
Something serious is happening. I thought I was mad before, now I'm just shocked. Ravenloft: Okay, I can deal. Dungeon & Dragon: I'm getting a little angry. Dragonlance: Now I'm utterly confused. Gamma World is/will be next, then what? D20 getting spun off? I dunno but I think it's time for WotC to seriously examine its business practices. This is something to do OVER TIME, NOT all at once...
Pretty sure Gamma World got pulled back in house a while back - back in 2005. But that was SSS's call, I believe.
|
I also think there is a very good chance that 4th Edition will NOT be part of OGL but a closed system. It makes sense to remove any licensing that would impede that goal.
If so, it's a BAD move on WizCo's part...
oh and it makes perfect sense to do a 4th edition now. Been a few years since you bought that PHB 3.5 hasn't it... time to buy everything all over again my friend but this time with a pretty 4E on the front.
Just think of all the people who will have to buy all the Eberron stuff again, the Forgotten Realms books??? Yep go buy them again. You like that Magic Item Compendium you just bought...it's ok, it'll be out of date in a few months. Those Complete Class Books we bought up... yeah we need 4E versions of them too.
Every 4-5 years you should expect a major revision or upgrade to necessitate purchasing everything all over again.
Me??? I have sunk so much cash into 3.5 that I could have bought a second home AND a second wife by now... no way I can afford to do it all over again. Even if I like 4E and WANT it... no way I can afford it all again.
Besides with the mechanics changes in the new Star Wars being probable foreshadowing of 4E I doubt I will like it. I'd like things simplified, sure, but don't take it back to 2E or even 1E...
Sorry, but I do not think 4e will sell many books, most of my friends stayed with 2e for they had so many of the old books and I wil definitly stay at 3e.
Consumers are not simpletons. I started with 2E (of course we didn't call it 2E, we called it "AD&D 2nd Edition") when I was eleven years old and made the transition to 3E because it was better. It was simpler, and the naysayers you encountered in every gaming store, the doom n' gloomers writing in every month to Dragon back then were simply wrong. New blood came to the game, new life blossomed in the hobby because 3E was a superior product. My current gaming group is testament to this fact, the backwards math and convoluted rulebooks of 2E made a bunch of highschool kids feel like they were studying a manual on computer electronics repair, not learning how to play a new game.
If 4E is right around the corner, all that remains to be seen is whether it is better than what we have now. If the answer is yes then only foolish people will stubbornly refuse it. Yes, WotC is a business and that means if they want to keep customers coming back for more, if they discontinue a product line the replacement must be tempting enough to keep people around.
As far as Dragon and Dungeon go... well, I have no opinion on the latter but some of you may have read my comments in Issue 352. If Paizo is allowed to publish a D&D magazine in any capacity in the near future, I am ecstatic that it will no longer be "officially" endorsed by WotC. The FR and Eberron campaign-specific material is a waste of everyone's money.
Re: DragonLance... companies don't often snatch the rights back to certain product lines if they intend only to bury them, never to see the light of day again. I'm sure if WotC wants it back, they have big plans for it.
|
It could be that WotC intends to make larger profits from the Dragonlance movie by holding all the cards, and then directly releasing more material for the setting.
It could be they plan to cut Dragonlance as a supported campaign world and focus on the new pet Eberron.
So far, we don't have much more than speculation. I find this news to be sad, because I liked the Dragonlance stories. As for playing there, well, my gaming group usually describes it as the most magic-starved backwater of the multiverse, and dread going there as much as they dread Ravenloft.
|
Personally, I think it could be a combination of things. As mentioned above, the animated movie should be out later this year, and WotC wants the rights so that Hasbro can make toys and other merchandise. Secondly, as far as minis go, remember that there is still one more of the "classic" evil dragons to go - the iconic gargantuan green dragon. Considering that they based the white off of a book character (Icingdeath) I think they might be planning the same with the green. After all, one of the most memorable greens is Cyn Bloodbane from Dragonlance. Maybe they will package him with Raistlin and Caramon Majere.
>> That makes Dragonlance the third casualty after Dragon and Dungeon magazines
Fourth casualty. WotC cancelled Code Monkey Publishing's license to produce datasets for E:Tools and PCGen.
That makes Dragonlance the third casualty after Dragon and Dungeon magazines to whatever unholy that WOTC is planning.
Fourth, actually, if you count E-Tools. Fifth if you count Ravenloft.
-The Gneech
You're missing the point if you protest that WotC won't get you to buy your book collection all over again. From their statements it seems they're trying to widen the market, not deepen it; go after new customers, not existing ones. Putting out more and more specialized books and going after smaller and smaller slices of the market (Drow compendium) runs into diminishing returns and is a losing strategy. It's what killed TSR.
It's a little like the difference between the PS3 and the Wii. One is chasing the hardcore market (and doing poorly) while the other is chasing the mainstream market (and doing phenomenally well). WotC wants to be Nintendo, not Sony, and they're willing to piss off a lot of existing core gamers to do it. After all, we've already bought the books, so our money is in their bank. They want to chase new customers.
I don't really blame them as it's the only way this business will survive.
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
The more I think about, the less I think the DL license pull is about toys. It's unlikely that was included in the license to begin with, and, if what they were really concerned about was toys/miniatures, they could've just agreed to renew only the rpg license. Still, they may be planning on releasing an rpg to captialize on the movie, and they would be in a better position to make that into a hit than the current holders of the DL license.
End of the day, it sure as hell would be nice if they'd at least give us a hint as to what's going on.
While not a reader of Dragonlance This developement worries me. I agree with Sebastian; I am beginning to worry about D&D's future, particuarly if it stays in WotC's evil hands.
Krypter, we need you on the "Future of D&D thread".
I cut and pasted your point there. Hope you don't mind.
Just found out about this today. I am not looking forward to bringing bad news to my weekly group two weeks in a row. I already know one of my players(and possibly his guest) is going to have a coronary over this. The anger that I had towards WotC that was slowly beginning to fade has blossomed anew.
The more I think about, the less I think the DL license pull is about toys. It's unlikely that was included in the license to begin with, and, if what they were really concerned about was toys/miniatures, they could've just agreed to renew only the rpg license.
I'm fairly certain there was no issue with WOTC being concerned about minis, considering while MWP had the license they made D&D minis of Baaz and Kapak Draconians, Lord Soth, and Mina.
Do you think they are trying to expand their market, check out this web page
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060401a
That was an april fools joke.
- Ashavan