Minor Quibbles and Questions Re: Sea Wyvern's Wake


Savage Tide Adventure Path

The Exchange

Our party begins Sea Wyvern's Wake tonight, although I don't expect us to get terribly far tonight because we're starting with some much-needed downtime. Then, after that, I can pretty much guarantee that my PC's (one or two particularly) will take a very keen interest in the exact nature and specs of the ship's cargo. So, while we might set sail tonight, I don't expect them to get too far.

Anyway, the reason I am writing this is that I have a couple of semi-unique problems that I forsee with the adventure as written, and I'd like some input and advice on them.

I should state before hand that, as I have mentioned in other threads, I have a relatively unusual party in a number of relevant ways. One is that it is a large party, consisting of no less than 8 PC's. Also, I have converted the campaign to run in the Forgotten Realms, in case that matters to anyone's advice. The other is that they're all good sailors, with all of them having at least 3 or 4 ranks in Prof(Sailor), many much more than that.

The reason that's a problem is that I feel like it's going to be rather obvious when I railroad them into a shipwreck at the end of SWW. I understand that it's a near-hurricane storm they're facing, and that the ship is rolling and turning, but these old salts have been through some rough storms at sea and know how to manage themselves.

Even if I made the modified Prof(Sailor) DC about 40 for them to stay off the reef, they'd have a pretty solid shot of making it, especially a few levels from now. Any more than that and you're talking Epic difficulties, which is also not especially believable. I know that the adventure doesn't even CALL for a Prof(Sailor) check, as I said, I feel I need something to prevent the feeling that they're being railroaded, which I know most gamers hate when they know that the storyline dictates a given outcome no matter what the PC's do to stop it.

The good news is that this particular issue won't be a problem until the end of the journey, which is several sessions away. But I'd like some input on that one from you all.

The next issue I have is that it's been made relatively clear that the adventure encourages romantic interactions with the NPC's, including Lavinia. I've been really trying to play up Lavinia's character as being cute but somewhat damaged by recent events (death of parents, brother's betrayal, etc etc) and in need of some caring companionship. So far, nobody has really taken the bait (There haven't been many opportunities, the PC's have acted pretty independently for long stretches of the AP), and now they're going to go 3 months with VERY limited interaction with her, since she's going to be on the Nixie.

Now, I don't want to split up the PC's between the two boats, it would cause a ton of logistical problems. And I know Lavinia needs to reach Farshore for the adventure after HTBM (the name of which has left me) before the PC's, for storyline reasons.

I could see lots of great roleplaying interaction with Lavinia and the PC's over the course of the 3 months' sailing adventure that would REALLY do some wonders for getting her hooked up with one of our fine eligible bachelors, but she's going to be on the "other" ship. I can very much imagine the guys being very happy to teach her soem tips about sailing and sea voyages, where to tie off the ropes and what not. Wouldn't there be any way for us to have her on board for long stretches, maybe 2 or 3 days on one ship and then 2 or 3 days on the other? Or would that be too much hassle for boats to keep swapping passengers all the time? Is that something they'd ever really do? If so, I could just have her row over to the Wyvern for a few days at a time, and then conveniently be on the Nixie when the Wyvern hits the saragasso, and the 2nd storm and so on. Is there any reason I couldn't / shouldn't do that?

Related...since all of my guys are good sailors, Amella is going to seem and feel like a third wheel. To be honest, she'd probably make more sense on the other boat. But then I'd just be trading one single female for another, I'd rather keep her on the Wyvern but I'm not sure what to do with her. As I said, I'm really interested in trying to begin to play up the romantic interactions in the campaign. What's a good pirate movie without some play with the fair damsels?

Final thing, I'm planning on playing up the actual day-to-day events of the sea voyage more than the module. My group was made for this, and I want to make use of some of the Stormwrack stuff more than it is assumed in the module. I am going to roll for the weather and wind at least once a day, maybe twice, I haven't decided yet. I'm also going to have random encouters at semi-regular intervals. I want this to FEEL like a long, arduous journey to the players and the PC's, so that they really feel the enhanced sense of gratitude when they arrive (which will be about the time the T-Rex shows up). Do you think 2x per day weather is too much?

I have a lot of PC's with a lot of aquatic abilities, and many/most of them were largely wasted in the first two adventures. I understand this, and so do they...you need time in a town with people to build up a proper storyline. But now that they're setting out, I/we really want to play up this part of the campaign to meet the abilities and expectations of the party. Also, I have some of my own of course, but can anyone recommend any particular places I could/should look for some extra side plot ideas? I have a neat idea for a deserted "volcanic" island with a smoking volcano, for example, which, as it turns out, is actually just a sleeping red dragon in an extinct volcano, who happens to be guarding the one fresh water spring on the island. And the PC's need it to replenish their suddenly fouled water supply. I also have a plan with sahaugin and an evil druid, and some other goodies. But more ideas are ALWAYS welcome. :)

Sorry, I know this is a hugely long post, but you guys have always been good with very quick and good input, and I'm counting on some more of that again. Thanks!

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Let's say the players approach the Isle of Dread and weather the storm. Let's have the Nixie separated during the same storm. It goes off and does it's thing. They heave to at Tyrannosaurus Cove to affect minor repairs, get water and supplies, and use fresh leaves to wipe their bottoms when going to the john (for the first time in months - luxury!).

Mmmm, Urol can smell bananas! Off he goes into the jungle, followed by Tavey or a random NPC. Cue marauding dinosaur beasties. Cue decent fight. After the fight, a search is effected for the missing gnome and crewman. Guess who staggers, pale and shocked, out from the treeline - Urol but no Tavey/ random NPC. Strike one for Olangru.

While discussing what to do, an invisible attacker severs the main-mast. Camp is set up on land. The ship is holed savagely below the water-line and takes on a lot of water. Olangru refuses to fight or engage further, content to first strand the rest. The body of the missing NPC turns up, somewhere awful.

Work on a new mast is sabotaged. Maybe some ixits or a huge sea beast attack the ship again. The decision is taken to set off on foot - Urol knows the way, right?

Once they reach a beach you can make sure the boat's toast with Olangru, and yet still be continuing the story. After that it's Predator meets The Lost World, just as it should be!


Fiendish Dire Weasel wrote:

The reason that's a problem is that I feel like it's going to be rather obvious when I railroad them into a shipwreck at the end of SWW. I understand that it's a near-hurricane storm they're facing, and that the ship is rolling and turning, but these old salts have been through some rough storms at sea and know how to manage themselves.

Even if I made the modified Prof(Sailor) DC about 40 for them to stay off the reef, they'd have a pretty solid shot of making it, especially a few levels from now. Any more than that and you're talking Epic difficulties, which is also not especially believable. I know that the adventure doesn't even CALL for a Prof(Sailor) check, as I said, I feel I need something to prevent the feeling that they're being railroaded, which I know most gamers hate when they know that the storyline dictates a given outcome no matter what the PC's do to stop it.

I'm not very sure of the specifics of controlling a ship during a storm but my first thought would to have the Mashers (the eel monsters) try to sink the ship first. That should make the ship much harder to control, especially if it starts sinking. My second thought is to make it a hurricane instead of a near hurricane, which would bump up the DC some too.

About Lavinia: I like the idea of her spending some time on the Sea Wyvern with the party. Also, the dinner where Rowyn releases the pickled mephit could be a good role playing experiance. I would pick a likely PC, the most dashing or the party leader, and have her flirt relentlessly with him as well. My Lavinia has dealt with the betrayel of her brother and death of her parents by throwing herself into this project and focusing on her fencing skills. Maybe she could train with a PC and that could lead to a romance?

Amella, however, is much easier dealt with. You could just make her and Lirith members of the crew. Amella survives the wreck of the Wyvern, so maybe instead of focusing on Lavinia as the only romantic interest other PCs could try to woo her. I'd especially think she'd be interested in the captain since you could say he looks like her dead husband.

That's all I've got. Hope it helps.


Dire Weasel wrote:
The reason that's a problem is that I feel like it's going to be rather obvious when I railroad them into a shipwreck at the end of SWW.

The trick, I should think, is to make them think that they're trying to hit the beach. For example, when the storm springs up, have them make their sailor checks and reward success with a chance to take the Wyvern to safety. Describe the beach as a sheltered cove they've sited. When they crash into the reef, give them another sailor roll to get free. When they finally get to the beach, it'll be because they made their rolls, not in spite of them.

Dire Weasel wrote:
I could see lots of great roleplaying interaction with Lavinia and the PC's over the course of the 3 months' sailing adventure that would REALLY do some wonders for getting her hooked up with one of our fine eligible bachelors, but she's going to be on the "other" ship.

I don't think it would be unreasonable for Lavinia to choose to travel with the Wyvern for a stretch of time. The ships plan on meeting up again at frequent ports, so it should be easy for her to say travel on the Wyvern from one fort to the next. I don't have the sequence of sites in front of me, but I would think after dinner on the Pixie would be a great moment for her to decide to travel with the Wyvern until the next port, for example.

And if you need to goad your players into picking up on Lavinia's signals, you can consider having one of the Jade Ravens mention his interest in wooing her 'cause she's dead rich and a straight path to nobility in Sasserine. The combination of riches, power, and rivalry with the Jade Raven are sure to nab somebody.

As for Amella, I'd say you use her as a way to let the players show off their characters skills at sailing. She could start off all blustery about how she's a sailing woman and then every time she tries to show off, the players can be like "yeah, I know". Amella may get flustered, but I think it's always nice to let the players know that the points they put into skills are recognized.

And, if the players bite at Lavinia's lure, Amella could get all jealous and try to win over the same character. If you make them both seem appealing in different ways, the player may have trouble choosing. In any case, if you're having a hard time getting your players into the wooing spirit, I'd recommend focusing all the in-game wooage on the one person who does respond.

Dire Weasel wrote:
Final thing, I'm planning on playing up the actual day-to-day events of the sea voyage more than the module.

I think this is a great idea and I'd like to hear how it works out for you. Three months at sea deserves more than a "and then you arrive at this quest site". I would think that going day by day would suffice, though, and wouldn't think that you'd have to roll more than once for weather and daily battles would really slow down the progression of the Path. When you roll for weather, though, roll for the next day to so you can tell them about the weather's trend as it gets on towards evening.


Hiya.

Comming from experience (a LOT of it...), I'd *highly* suggest you just outright tell the players sometime before you guys sit down to the game. That's right, just tell them. While hanging out, and the game comes up, just say "Oh, guys. At the end of this next adventure, the ship is supposed to get shipwrecked, or else the adventure doesn't really work. That ok with you guys?"

In all likelyhood (if you have understanding and mature players who are interested in a good time more than 'screwing with the DM'), they'll accept it. To really sweeten the deal, tell them that they can do a whole lot of crazy stuff to try and save people/cargo/whatever and that their PC's won't die...just as the ship is "supposed to crash", the PC's are also "supposed to live"; not very fair to have one and not the other. After they all 'wake up' on the shore, however, all bets are off.

That's been the absolute best way to handle "this HAS to happen" type flaws in an adventure. Because no matter how you try and sugar coat it, no matter how much wool you try and pull over your players eyes, there will be at least one player that will be sitting at the table staring at you with a very annoyed look on his face. Once word gets out that "it was a set up and there was nothing they could do" they will feel like they had been cheated, lied to, or otherwise 'screwed with'. Best just to tell them outright.


Sailors: Since your players sank ranks into them, I'd let them come in handy. It is near hurricane though, ships sink. That's not railroading, that's setting the adventure.

Let them have success based on their sailing rolls. A reef with mashers is the first obstacle, a Profession (Sailor) check will miss that. For actual reef that they wreck on, give them a roll to see how badly they wreck. This then determines how much time they have to rescue NPCs and get off the boat. Things like that.

Amelia: Amerlia's only purpose is "NPC the players know and hopefully care about" for Here There Be Monsters. If you're going to let the players be captain, just turn Ameilia into somebody else: The ship cook, a shipwreck survivor found at sea, a passenger that takes an interest in the PCs.

Lavinia: I like the idea of L spending more time with the players. It makes it a little too railroad-y though for her to be back aboard the Nixie everytime something dangerous happens though. I don't see a reason why she can't be on the Sea Wyvern the whole trip (she's taken an interest in one of the PCs herself, wants to get fencing lessons). She transfers back to the Nixie and before the final storm so that she can be seen as captain of her mother's ship as it sails into port?


I like Fletch's solution, myself. Put a second vote behind that advice. When I get home, I'll post my itinerary for the Sea Wyvern to show what I did with day-to-day stuff. So far, so good with my players- they feel likfe they're travelling for a long time, but they aren't bored. (at least nobody's said they were) :)


Aye, points to Fletch. Another option would be to have characters drowning. I forget the exact rules, but it is roughly three saves until you die. Enough water is coming over board that someone could be knocked unconscious and have to be dragged to a safer place (I would not kill them outright since that just stinks). It sounds like your crew of 8 is all sailors so the rest of the passengers are colonist (no sailing skills) and it takes 7 to sail the ship. Each N/PC out of play for a while, makes handling the ship that much more difficult. Especially if it is the person at the helm. Or they get knocked out and crank the wheel as they fall. It may take a little while for the rest of the crew to recover the ship (half move on an unstable surface) and by then, well...


---WARNING---
---COMPLETE AND TOTAL SPOILERS FOR SEA WYVERN'S WAKE---
Here're my notes for running SWW... basically, I established all the random events/minor encounters/plot twists ahead of time and plotted them out:

Day2- Dinner with Lavinia on the Blue Nixie/pickled mephit
Day6- The Sacred Forest - DC20 spot check
Day7- Ruins
Day10- Ruins
Day11- Yardarm Accident(Cleric) - Skald was last there
Day13- A:Fort Blackwell 475miles travelled
Day15- Coastal Fort
Day17- Ruins
Day19- Coastal Fort
Day21- Bad Weather begins - river mouth, as it worsens, anchor
Day22- B:Flotsam Ooze / Boom Accident 785 miles travelled
Day24- Coastal Forts
Day27- Great Web / Poisoning#1(Wizard)
Day28- Poisoning#2 (Wizard)
Day29- Ruins / Poisoning#3(Wizard)
Day34- Coastal Fort
Day36- C:Tamoachan 1285 miles travelled
Day37- Seduction #1 (Lirith&Scout)
Day38- Coastal Fort
Day40- D:Brotherhood Blockade / Opportunistic Strike 1435 miles travelled
Day41- Coastal Fort
Day46- The Vast Burning
Day47- Hawser Accident(Scout or Cleric)
Day48- Ruins
Day49- E:Ruins of Fort Greenrock 1765 miles travelled
Day52- Ruins
Day53- F:River Menace 1925 miles travelled
Day54- Seduction #2(Wizard)
Day57- Ruins
Day59- G:Renkrue 2140 miles travelled
Day61- Wyvern Sighting
Day63- H:Pearl Current 2290 miles travelled
Day64- Sea Monster
Day69- I:Ruja 2505 miles travelled
Day72- Derelict Ship (Dragon Mag/replacement character)
Day73- J:First Storm 2665 miles travelled
Day77- K:Journey's End 2815miles travelled
Day82- L:Second Storm 3000miles travelled
Day83- M:Shipwrecked 3025miles travelled

Only the Cleric,Scout and Wizard were involved with the LD, that's why they're targetted by Rowyn. The first patch of ruins and coastal forts I describe in detail. As the trip continues, they get less descriptive unless something triggers their curiosity. They get plenty of time to interact with NPCs and if they don't have anything they want to interact with, I declare that nothing worth noting happens that day and move on to the next. It works tolerably well- but we're still at Tamoachan, so any suggestions are welcome.

The Exchange

Everybody liked "Fletch"'s solution, but I don't see a post by anyone named "Fletch". Did he change usernames, or am I just unable to see the post?

All of the stuff posted thus far is good. I still have plenty of time to work out the exact details, as of the end of tonights adventure they are only 3 days out of Sasserine, and trying to work out who is responsible for the pickled water mephit. Keep it coming! :)

The Exchange

OK, now it's showing. I'm not sure what was going on with my browser last night, I was missing 2 or 3 of these messages.

Now that I do see Fletch's idea, I like it. It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it? :)

Last night, we did all the voyage prep and character downtime stuff, and then set sail. We got 3 days into the journey, and they've had good wind. The PC's worked out a work shift schedule on their own, between the captain and first mate, with overlapping 14 hour shifts. Essentially, each shift will have 12 hours duty by itself, with 1 hour overlaps at beggining and end for shift change, and to maintain good communication and such.

Anyway, since they've got the shifts set up, it seemed logical to have the weather rolls match up to them, so I am doing 2 a day. I have, however, decided to roll several ahead going forward, for a number of reasons. One, it will speed up and streamline the game. It doesn't take TOO long to roll 2 percentile rolls and consult charts, but why do it in game if you know you can do it ahead of time?

Also, and more importantly, it turns out that one of my PC's found rules somewhere for relatively accurate weather prediction. It was a DC15 check, and for every 5 you make the check by, that's another 12 hours of accurate prediction. I'm PRETTY sure the relevant check was Knowledge Nature, with synergy bonuses from Prof (Sailor) and Knowledge (Navigation), but I might have that switched. I'll look and see if I can find the rule again later.

At any rate, so far the voyage is going pretty well. And once I get this little weather plan streamlined and such, it should go even more smoothely. I also appreciate Patrick's table, I'll most likely use it with a few minor additions of my own.

Thanks again for all the help, and if anyone has more to add, I look forward to hearing it! :)

The Exchange

Scott & Le Janke wrote:
Aye, points to Fletch. Another option would be to have characters drowning. I forget the exact rules, but it is roughly three saves until you die.

Except that the majority of my party has a natural swim speed, and about half can breathe water. The rest are good swimmers. :)

Scott & Le Janke wrote:
Enough water is coming over board that someone could be knocked unconscious and have to be dragged to a safer place (I would not kill them outright since that just stinks). It sounds like your crew of 8 is all sailors so the rest of the passengers are colonist (no sailing skills) and it takes 7 to sail the ship. Each N/PC out of play for a while, makes handling the ship that much more difficult. Especially if it is the person at the helm. Or they get knocked out and crank the wheel as they fall. It may take a little while for the rest of the crew to recover the ship (half move on an unstable surface) and by then, well...

That point certainly has potential. A pulley breaks loose and comes right at the helm, high DC reflex save to avoid...


One thing to remember in helping to "railroad" the party: there is a stowaway aboard the Sea Wyvern that wishes to see them come to harm. Just tone down or space out Rowyn's attacks on the party and have her final assault come during the second storm. With a raging storm going on and the PCs struggling topside to keep the ship afloat, it's unlikely anyone's going to notice what's going on in the bilges.


Fiendish Dire Weasel wrote:

It doesn't take TOO long to roll 2 percentile rolls and consult charts, but why do it in game if you know you can do it ahead of time?

My players like to roll these sorts of things. I think it is so they can blame the bad weather/random encounter that leads to the TPK on someone. "oh no! It's A's turn to roll?! Prepare to die!" *grin*


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

It is easy to orchestrate the wreck of the Sea Wyvern, despite the piloting ability of the pilot and the seamanship of the crew.

During the hurricane, have the masts snap or be heavily damaged and have the some or all of the cargo in the hold come loose and shift to one side, giving the ship a significant 'list'. Everyone is hard at work just keeping the ship afloat, let alone have time to re-secure the cargo and fix the masts.

With damaged or broken masts and a ship significantly 'out of balance' due to a heavily list, you can assess enough penalties to make the piloting rolls nearly impossible to make.

Think of it this way. You might be a NASCAR grade driver but if your car during the race gets two flat tires and the steering shaft gets bent and your tranmission box seizes - it doesn't the hell matter how good a driver you are, your going into the wall....


Fletch wrote:
The trick, I should think, is to make them think that they're trying to hit the beach. For example, when the storm springs up, have them make their sailor checks and reward success with a chance to take the Wyvern to safety. Describe the beach as a sheltered cove they've sited. When they crash into the reef, give them another sailor roll to get free. When they finally get to the beach, it'll be because they made their rolls, not in spite of them.

Good ideas, but I still think Fletch's is the one that keeps FDW's players from figuring out that they're being railroaded. I quoted it in case you still can't see it, FDW.


Fiendish Dire Weasel wrote:

Our party begins Sea Wyvern's Wake tonight, although I don't expect us to get terribly far tonight because we're starting with some much-needed downtime. Then, after that, I can pretty much guarantee that my PC's (one or two particularly) will take a very keen interest in the exact nature and specs of the ship's cargo. So, while we might set sail tonight, I don't expect them to get too far.

Anyway, the reason I am writing this is that I have a couple of semi-unique problems that I forsee with the adventure as written, and I'd like some input and advice on them.

I should state before hand that, as I have mentioned in other threads, I have a relatively unusual party in a number of relevant ways. One is that it is a large party, consisting of no less than 8 PC's. Also, I have converted the campaign to run in the Forgotten Realms, in case that matters to anyone's advice. The other is that they're all good sailors, with all of them having at least 3 or 4 ranks in Prof(Sailor), many much more than that.

The reason that's a problem is that I feel like it's going to be rather obvious when I railroad them into a shipwreck at the end of SWW. I understand that it's a near-hurricane storm they're facing, and that the ship is rolling and turning, but these old salts have been through some rough storms at sea and know how to manage themselves.

Even if I made the modified Prof(Sailor) DC about 40 for them to stay off the reef, they'd have a pretty solid shot of making it, especially a few levels from now. Any more than that and you're talking Epic difficulties, which is also not especially believable. I know that the adventure doesn't even CALL for a Prof(Sailor) check, as I said, I feel I need something to prevent the feeling that they're being railroaded, which I know most gamers hate when they know that the storyline dictates a given outcome no matter what the PC's do to stop it.

The good news is that this particular issue won't be a problem until the end of the journey, which is several...

You could have Malcanthet, the queen of the succubi, imbue the storm with immense demonic power (fierce lightening, supernaturally strong winds, wierd coloured sky) which would mean that they become wrecked. She wants them on the Isle of Dread to discover that Golden Bat Idol, plus she probably would quite like them to take out Olangru and his buddies as they are lackeys of demogorgon.

Just a thought

Warmage 101

EDIT: Sorry, a bit late. didn't look at the date of the first post properly. My bad.

The Exchange

No worries, we've set sail, but it's a LONG time yet before we reach the Isle of Dread. Tonights adventure should get us to Fort Blackwell, but not before a nice little random encounter I've thrown in featuring a few sahaugin and a wereshark. :)

The Exchange

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll keep you updated here on how it goes for us. We had a bit of time off due in part to the fact that my basement (where we play our game) flooded. Rather appropriate given the setting, I suppose, but still not particularly funny.


The DC for the Wyvern to avoid foundering in a dire gale is 28, and must be made hourly. 7th or 8th level characters have max 11 ranks in profession (sailor), with assorted bonuses it's not likely to be higher than a +20 on the check. In three days of storm, they are bound to fail one. Heavy rolls and wash--likely means cargo breaks free and rolls around the hold, possibly holing the ship or putting a list on it and making it in danger of capsizing. It also means you're likely to have waves breaking over the bow or stern of the ship, with possible damage to the rudder or ship's wheel, masts, and so forth, not to mention carrying away sailors and ships boats.

In a really bad storm, you can only safely do two things: 1. Run directly downwind, with your sails reefed to minimize the chance of carrying away a mast; or 2. Heave to, drop a sea anchor, and place your bow into the wind. You have to keep a couple of storm sails up to keep your bow pointed into the wind. Once you've decided on your course, it is very dangerous to change--if you turn your beam (side) to the seas and are caught be a swell, you are very likely to capsize. And you certainly can't hold a course that puts your beam to the winds and seas for long, because then you are guaranteed to be hit repeatedly with swells, and sooner or later one will capsize the ship. So, given that you're throwing the mother of all hurricanes at them to begin with, it's not really "railroading" to have them hit a reef--they have no way to maneuver around it. If they heave to, it will take them longer to be blown into the reef, but they'll still hit it. This is called being blown onto a lee shore, and it is one of the great dangers of sailing.

Now, that being said, you should certainly give the PCs a chance to improve the outcome with their skills, both in swim and profession (sailor). If they make a good profession sailor check, for example, they know that lightening the ship might free it from the reef. They might be able to reduce damage to the ship and avoid or escape the mashers by throwing cargo overboard and floating the ship off the reef, then making a profession (sailor) check to plug the leak and pump out the water in the hold. In fact, you can emphasize how successful profession (sailor) checks earlier prevent the loss of a ship's mast or damage to its rudder, capsizing or loss of sailors overboard, etc., giving them the feeling that it would have been much worse if they hadn't made their checks.

Finally, you can give the storm a sort of divinely ordained inevitability. Have the lookout sight a mermaid as the ship pulls away from the continental shore for the last time. Mermaids, as every sailor knows, are an omen that the ship is doomed. Have the natives on the island off the south shore of the Amedio insist that a human sacrifice must be made to Xicholotl, god of the sea to ensure the ship's safety when making the crossing to the Isle of Dread. When the PCs refuse, have the shaman shake his head and say, OK, but don't blame me when your ship goes down. Have an aspect of Procan appear in the midst of the storm and give them a sign that he has singled them out for punishment. (He's a CN deity, so he doesn't need a particular reason). Have the ship's chaplain do a divination that hints at a shipwreck and gives the party tips on how to survive it. Giving omens is better than just saying up front I'm gonna wreck your ship, because (a) it gives an in-game flavor to the whole process while still handing out the hint, and (b) it doesn't take away from the emotional investment that the PCs have in the ship. It should suck to have your ship wreck, because that ship is your heart and soul and your sole means of survival. You want the players to have a little bit of the feeling of despair that a real shipwreck engenders.

On the issue of Lavinia's visits--she's the "admiral" of her little exploration fleet, and that's a good excuse to spend a fair amount of time "inspecting" the other ships besides her flagship. Of course if she makes her romantic ulterior motives obvious that's fine. And it was quite common in the days of sail for ships to anchor or heave to and have the captains visit each other to consult about various important matters. As long as the seas are not too rough, it's fairly easy to put a boat in the water and row back and forth. Using signal flags, or approaching closely enough to hail the other ship by voice, the Nixie can convey the "admiral's" intention to come for a visit.

The Exchange

Peruhain, good post, I do agree with most of what you've said. I will dispute the max bonus you've worked up though...

We have a party of 8 PC's, all of which have a substantial Prof(Sailor) score. Not all of them are maxxed on it, but they all have at least a little. If they are on deck working to sail the ship, they can roll to assist the main Prof(Sailor) check, each giving a +2 to the roll. Of course, a few will usually fail, but that's almost always, in our party, +10 or so right out of the bag. Then there's the fact that a caravel gives a +4 to all such rolls due to it's size and seaworthiness. That's all before the captain even makes his roll, with his 8 ranks (currently, he's still only Lvl5), and good INT score. By the time the party is at 8th level, I'll essentially need to have throw DC 40 Sailor rolls to scare them.

The rest of what you're saying makes plenty of sense, however, and kind of negates the point of what I'm getting at above. Thanks for the contribution. :)


Dire Weasel, don't forget:

"The DM limits cooperation as he/she sees fit for the given conditions." (PH 66). Some of the profession checks might be meaningfully assisted by others, some might not, or only by one or two others. For example, when trying to steer to avoid reefs, the DM might rule that only a lookout stationed in the bow of the ship can help the captain. So you could certainly limit some of the assist checks to +2 or +4 bonus total. Have them explain how each character is going to help in a given situation. Some of the helping also might require moving about on deck or in the rigging, thus putting the assisting character at risk of washing overboard. I wouldn't just automatically let the whole party or the whole crew make assist checks for every action.

Also, the key ability for Profession is wisdom, so your captain's intelligence bonus won't help him.


Suggestions for making the wreck of the Sea Wyvern feel more realistic:

As the storm kicks up, the ship begins to roll as huge swells buffet the ship's port side. The first time the captain succeeds in a profession (sailor) check to avoid rolling, it means he realizes the ship has no choice but to heave to and hope to ride out the storm without being blown onto the lee shore of the Isle of Dread. Heaving to means turning the ship's bow into the wind to minimize rolls. All the sails would be lowered except a small storm sail on the mizzen mast, and the ship's anchor would be lowered a couple of hundred feet into the water to provide drag to stabilize the ship and keep the bow pointed into the seas. Any failed profession (sailor) checks after this mean that the ship takes wash, rather than roll. Success means the sails and sea anchor are adjusted to prevent wash. However, whatever the captain does, the ship drifts inexorably toward the lee shore, which cannot be seen in the stormy conditions.

After sunset, have anyone stationed near the stern make a DC 15 listen check. Success means they hear breakers off the starboard quarter over the noise of the storm, and a DC 15 profession (sailor) check interprets the sound of breakers as evidence of a reef. Have the captain make a DC 25 prof (sailor) check. If he succeeds, he is able to alter the ship's course (by manipulating the sails and rudder) so it drifts to port slightly. In this case, the reef will strike the ship amidships on the starboard side, and can be freed as described in the adventure--a successful prof (sailor) DC 20 check indicates that the captain manipulates the sails to spin the ship to port and free it from the reef. If the initial check to alter course and avoid the reef is failed, the ship's stern strikes the reef, destroying the rudder. A DC 30 prof (sailor) check is now required to free the ship as above, and if this is failed by more than 10, the ship swings to starboard and broaches (turns sideways to the reef). In that event, the ship is grounded on the reef for 2d20 minutes, during which time it is vulnerable to the attacks of the mashers (as written). After that time, the tide rises and a huge swell drags the Wyvern right over the top of the reef. If the ship broaches, the DM should reduce the amount of cargo that can be salvaged from the wreck, reduce the number of surviving passengers, and increase the difficulty of repairing the ship later on in the adventure path.

In any event, once the ship is free of the reef, it is inside the dangerous barrier reef that protects the Isle's eastern shore. These waters are not well charted and not safe for a ship the size of a caravel due to numerous reefs and rocks. Although the seas are not as heavy inside the reef, the wind is still howling, and it is impossible to make any course east of due south or north of due west. Basically the ship is sinking, and it is trapped in the large bay on the northeastern coast, and the best hope for survival is to ground the ship on a soft and relatively protected beach. A DC 25 prof (sailor) check allows the captain to do this--if this check is failed, reduce salvageable cargo and surviving passengers and increase the difficulty of repair. However the PCs manage to survive the final stranding of the Wyvern, they wake up on the beach exhausted and battered from their ordeal.

The Exchange

That's absolutely awesome Peruhain. Thanks for the well-written exposition. I think I will just go ahead and print that...

The cool thing is that it will be quite some time before we get to this event, since I'm extending the sea voyage portion of the adventure significantly.

Thanks again to all who contributed, and anyone who posts further. It's all welcome!


Fiendish Dire Weasel wrote:

That's absolutely awesome Peruhain. Thanks for the well-written exposition. I think I will just go ahead and print that...

The cool thing is that it will be quite some time before we get to this event, since I'm extending the sea voyage portion of the adventure significantly.

Thanks again to all who contributed, and anyone who posts further. It's all welcome!

I have started a word document and much of it is filled by the contents of this thread. It will definitely come in handy.

The Exchange

Heheh I did the same thing with the glossary of nautical terms, ronin. Glad you've found this one as useful as I have.

The Exchange

I will resurrect this thread, as it is time for promised updates. Anyone named Jaatu Bronzescale should probably not read any further because there's some definite spoiler stuff in here for my group.

I appreciate all the love given to me on this thread a back when I created it, there is a ton of good stuff here. As such, I'd like to give updates to those who asked for them.

We've had 2 consecutive weeks off, unfortunately, for the 2nd time in my campaign (the first time my basement flooded, this time it was a scheduling issue and then vacation time), so despite the long layover time between posts, we're still only a month into the voyage.

Partly, that's intentional however. As I said, I am making a specific point of extending this part of the campaign to play on my party's specific nautical bent. We also had a three-session side quest, for which I blame the greed of some of my party members, as well as a tiny little blurb in SWW about a random event of "Ruins". They insisted on going there after a brief stopover at Fort Blackwell (Port Nyanzaru to us, since we play in the Realms) to explore and loot, and of course once the subject was breached, Urol Forol was happy to support the idea as well.

Well, to make it suitably scary and neat and stuff, I cannibalized parts of 3 of the different adventures included in the "Serpent Kingdoms" FR supplement, and turned the Ruins into a long lost city of the Sarrukh, the lizardy progenitor race. Made a decent story out of it, if I do say so myself. More info can be provided if anyone cares and asks.

At any rate, the point I'm getting at is that as far as the actual module is concerned, it's been slow going. We've just left Port Nyanzaru, Father Feres isn't even sick (that's next adventure, along with the pirate blockade).

The party worked out a shift system of 12 hour shifts, so they helped answer the question I had been asking myself about the weather rolls. I do two weather rolls a day, which roughly correspond with their shift change. For those familiar with the Stormwrack weather charts, I use the base roll for the whole day (the 1st %ile roll to determine heat and wet/dry), and then roll twice for wind. I roll several days worth of weather up before each session.

I thought about letting the players do it, but we have a pretty good meteorologist on the ship who makes rolls to determine the weather every day, so I have to know what the weather will be like several days in advance. Instead of holding up precious game time to do 10 weather rolls at once, I have it all done beforehand. I keep it in a "Ship's Journal" that I've been keeping, that I use to work out on which day certain preset events will occur (much like the log shown above by Patrick), and to track the party's daily navigational rolls, and so on.

Most days go by with me describing the weather and winds for the given shift, asking that shifts PC's if they have anything they would like to specifically do for that day, and then repeating for the next shift. There are occasional random encounters; some friendly, some decidedly not (like the wereshark/sahuagin raid --hehehe fun!)

The romance issues have sorted themselves out largely. There are now 2 or 3 people interested in Lavinia, but unfortunately, I don't think her character meshes well with them. Amella has latched on to an Aventi who (other than the insignificant racial differences) looks just like her dead hubby. She has asked him multiple times if he knows of any surface world relatives. Lirith has become quite cozy with our captain character, mostly because they have similar outlooks on life, as well as similar fighting styles. Our captain is the flamboyant and showy CN Swashbuckler, going for Legendary Captain prestige class. Natural match with Lirith really, all the way down to the very bright clothing.

Lavinia has spent some time on the Wyvern, but she was on the Nixie when they sailed on instead of checking out the Ruins, so they're a good 2 days ahead of the Wyvern at present, and will stay that way until at least after the pirate blockade (which Amella will fill them in on when they get close, and in which I plan to use all kinds of expanded ship fun from Stormwrack and the "Seafarer's Handbook" which I recommend - Fantasy Flight Games). Also we're going to have 2 pirate ships instead of one, and a beefed up crew on each because frankly 9 Lvl1 pirates and a Lvl4 captain is such a walkover for my boys it'd be a letdown. I'm thinking of 8 Lvl3 Rogues, 1 Lvl6 Rogue/Swashbuckler Captain, and 1 Lvl4 Mage (not QUITE enough for fireball!) on each. The 2nd ship might have a Cleric instead of a mage. Probably will.

Everyone seems to really be enjoying the format, and the way each day is handled. I want each day to be noted, without making it necessarily drag the adventure into pointless and monotonous bookkeeping, and I think the balance I've struck is working for us.

Still looking forward to the situations involving the final storm and the approach to the IoD, and have more or less worked out a sort of hybrid of many of the suggestions posted here. Some of the details are fuzzy yet, but I still have almost 2 months of game time to work it all out satisfactorily.

Hopefully that is a solid enough update. I can't think of much else to add honestly, except that I have to say without question that this is the best campaign I've ever DM'd. Partly due to the group I've got, partly due to my growth into the role, but a LOT goes to the module and the designers. My hat's really off to James and the whole crew. Writers, developers, playtesters, the whole lot. I'm thrilled with the product. If Pathfinder is half as good as this, we're in for quality going forward too. And it will be. I'm pumped about it really. WotC screwed up but I'm not going to let it bug me.

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Fiendish Dire Weasel wrote:
I can't think of much else to add honestly, except that I have to say without question that this is the best campaign I've ever DM'd. Partly due to the group I've got, partly due to my growth into the role, but a LOT goes to the module and the designers. My hat's really off to James and the whole crew. Writers, developers, playtesters, the whole lot. I'm thrilled with the product. If Pathfinder is half as good as this, we're in for quality going forward too. And it will be. I'm pumped about it really. WotC screwed up but I'm not going to let it bug me.

+100 here. This AP got me reading Dungeon again, after I gave up on it in the mid-80's. (Yeah, I know.) I get as much enjoyment reading the STAP as I do a good fantasy novel. It's well-plotted, complex, and has just the right amount of variety balanced by recurring themes and characters.

I wonder - since the crew at Paizo is going to be spending their time writing Pathfinder, who's going to provide WotC's pay-per-view web content ? All the good stuff from the magazines is resident here!

Tom

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Well, tomorrow is when our party is FINALLY going to (probably) reach the Isle, and all this wonderful knowledge you guys have shared with me will come into play.

I think I'm mostly going to go with a combination of materials from Peruhain's post about the approach to the isle as the storm begins (listen checks to hear breakers, prof-sailor checks to recognize reefs), etc.

I'm going to make the captain make listen checks at a high DC (likely 20) during the storm to allow people shouting to him to assist his sailing rolls. The captain isn't loaded in skill points in Listen, I think he has a +4 or something like that, so most of the help he's getting from his crew will be wasted. Easy to explain given the conditions.

I will give them a chance to avoid the reefs, but it will be tough given the conditions (DC 35 Prof-sailor). They can make it, but captain will have to roll quite well, and get some assistance from the crew through the listen checks.

I'm also going to have the PC's deal with the washes and going overboard and so on, as per the description in the magazine. It won't scare anybody much though, I think all of them have a natural swim speed now except the cleric, and he has that "cloak of the manta ray" so he can get one quickly.

Then lightning is going to strike the main mast, further limiting the crew's ability to control the ship. At THAT point, I'll move on to Fletch's suggested method of giving them rolls to get to the "safety" of the cove on the Isle of Dread. If you can call T-rex central "safety".

With the main mast gone, and the ship PROBABLY damaged from reef impact, they will have no choice but to beach on the Isle and hoof it across on land to Farshore to get help with repairs and such.

Thanks again to all who assisted with this thread. I will tell you all how it goes after tomorrow night. To be honest, it's really great to have a party of PC's that challenges me enough to make this thread necessary. They're a great group, and you guys have been really great too. Tons of good material and it will really help. Cheers!


Just some encouragement--I hope your session goes well. I'm following this with interest as I will be running the same adventure in a while--maybe in a month or so.

The Exchange

Well, all that prep time. All that extra work to make it so I wasn't railroading them...

...they botch the rolls. There were two guys tied to the front of the boat who could hear the sound of the waves breaking over the reef. Both made their listen checks, and then promptly failed their profession sailor checks to determine what the sound meant.

The ship smacks the reef. The rudder is jacked. The mashers attack (I sent two at them). The mashers are killed (although we have an interesting con drain secondary check to start next week that might kill a cohort), and the ship has beached on T-Rex Cove.

At least I was prepared to give them an out. Now they have only themselves to blame. :)


I'll blame the D20's and the nasty nasty rules in stormwrack :)

Green water makes for really lovely dents in bulkheads and the back of my head. I'm just glad noone on the stern failed their save and flew overboard.

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I wanted to bring this thread back from the archives because some people were making mention of it in recent posts...so *bump*.

Thanks again for all who contributed to it. I know it helped me a ton in my campaign. Now hopefully it can be useful to others.


Thanks a lot. I am just preparing Sea Wyvern's Wake at the moment, and this thread is very useful to me.
I like the part about the shipwreck being fated to happen. I was going to add an encounter with an albatross savage creature. It is bad luck to kill an albatros, but they have no choice killing it. Of course some of the sailors point out that this means very bad luck.
I also like giving the PC's extra checks to counter the worst effects of the storm.

The Exchange

Recently received an email about this thread, so I'm bringing it back again. Hope others can continue to find it useful.


I came late into the thread - seems a lot fothis is already outdate - wrote the reply before reading the whole thread :(

Fletch wrote:


The trick, I should think, is to make them think that they're trying to hit the beach. For example, when the storm springs up, have them make their sailor checks and reward success with a chance to take the Wyvern to safety. Describe the beach as a sheltered cove they've sited. When they crash into the reef, give them another sailor roll to get free. When they finally get to the beach, it'll be because they made their rolls, not in spite of them.

THIS is how you manage a problem like this! Love it!

On the trip, having one PC ship and one NPC ship might work well. Put whoever is not central to the plot on the Nixie, then arrange frequent social visits between the ships - dinners and such. Since one ship witll have a lot of female officers and your group seems predominantly male, these visits should be welcome. This also concentrates the social RP to certain situations.

I'd think the Rowyn plot would not work as written for you. As an alternative, have Rowyn on the Nixie too. Let her fool the NPCs there into suspecting each other, including Lavina. There simply is no fair arbiter on the Nixie that everyone trusts to run an investigation. Then have Lavina call in the PCs as investigators.


Yes, this thread has a lot of awesome ideas. I have more things that would greatly assist if anyone had some info or thoughts on these. I'd love to see something that would let me determine such as this:

Did anyone come up with random damage to the ship for
1) hitting the reef

hull,mast snapping,hull breach etc

2) damage from waves in a storm?
same as above and more (loose cargo)?

How many tons of supplies does it take to repair each kind of damage?

I'd also want to somehow limit how many aid another's you can do for a sailing or navigation check. What rationale's do you have for these?

Also, my characters are wanting to NOT go along the coast and just take the short, direct routes. What are the navigation DCs for navigating in open water? and why couldn't multiple navigator's each make a check using their sextant? I'm thinking I should be rolling these in secret to make the characters wary or their "successful" navigation.

Thanks!


I seem to remember having read somewhere that the supplies are enough to repair the equivalent of 10 hull points.


+1 spelljammer reference
awesome thread here

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cthulhudarren wrote:

Yes, this thread has a lot of awesome ideas. I have more things that would greatly assist if anyone had some info or thoughts on these. I'd love to see something that would let me determine such as this:

If you really want these questions answered fully and in-depth, I highly recommend you get your hands on the Stormwrack supplement and read it thoroughly. I'd imagine you should be able to find it cheap on eBay, and I for one couldn't really imagine running STAP without it. I used it in my game planning for pretty much every session for several months.


Me too.

I even used the sable drake encounter in SWW, and it became a major plotline.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

As for the sextant checks, what you get is a mixed hodgepodge of people who made their checks and those who didn't, all absolutely convinced they are correct. That's why you make one check at the highest bonus, or you are perfectly free to rule that they don't really have any idea where they are. If some of the 'correct' people happen to match, just have some of the 'wrong' people match, too. Then watch them try to make up their minds.

==Aelryinth

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