I want to make a comment about the importance of cover art for Dungeon.
Some issues of Dungeon appear to have art that is tailored for one of the stories in the issue. i.e. good examples include issue 90, issue 112, and issue 121. Other issues have art which might be related to a story, but is hard to tell (i.e. issue 143).
Blurbs on the cover that obscure the artwork actually reduce my odds of buying Dungeon. In that regard, I think the cover for 112 was perfect. It said what it had to say, nothing more, nothing less.
The cover for 121 depicts a scene that took place before the adventure (i.e. the characters on the cover aren't in the module itself) and that's ok since they are iconic D&D characters. But issue 90 and issue 112 actually depict scenes from the module, and that's ideal.
That being said, occassionally a blurb can create interest. But the 5 new monsters and 7 new spells type of blurbs that you find on Dragon -- nope, don't care for those blurbs.
Give me an illustration of some iconic D&D character or a hot medieval female, or better yet, both. The illustration for the cover of Dungeon 143 was cool, but I could not tell which adventure that character was from.
But the blurbs "Who stole the Mask of Diamond Tears?" or "Foil the Great Train Robbery!" ... ummm, I'm not the target audience for them.
That doesn't mean that those types of adventures don't appeal to me. Just that you are unlikely to describe the adventure that appeals to me in under ten words.
edit: Just as an aside, the illustration on page 28 of issue 143 is awesome for this month's Savage Tide adventure.
Creative Director
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We've experimented much with reducing and increasing the amount of cover lines on both magazines. Almost every time, the result is this:
More cover lines (especially cover lines with numbers) = more sales of that particular issue.
For Dungeon, I try my best to keep the coverlines as minimal and non-invasive as possible, but just as there'll always be advertisements inside the magazine, there'll always be at least SOME cover lines on its front.
As for #143, that cover's one of our iconic adventurers; you'll notice her appearing throughout the Savage Tide adventure path.
I know the numbers don't lie, but that's a shame. I far prefer a clean, adult look -- the kind of thing you might be able to put on your coffee table. Sometimes those blurbs make me feel like I'm reading an issue of Tiger Beat.
For me, those blurbs in Dungeon are rather unnecessary since they rarely tell me enough to be useful...I have to leaf to the contents page anyway to see if I am interested.
For Dragon, I want blurbs. I am not too keen on those "7 new spells!" blurbs (since every issue has number of spells anyway) but "Giants!" "Drow!" "Queen of Demonweb Pits!" are already useful and interesting blurbs which give me an idea if I should be interested or not.
More cover lines (especially cover lines with numbers) = more sales of that particular issue.
That seems such an odd correlation. The magazine issue number, or something else?
More cover lines (especially cover lines with numbers) = more sales of that particular issue.That seems such an odd correlation. The magazine issue number, or something else?
I'm thinking it has more to do with numbers like "8 NEW MONSTERS!" "1 HORRIBLE UNDEAD WIZARD!!!" "75th ANNIVERSARY EXTRAVAGANZA!!!" or "100 PAGES OF SCANTILY CLAD ELF BABES!!!"
rather than the ISBN number or the issue number.
GGG
I know the numbers don't lie, but that's a shame. I far prefer a clean, adult look -- the kind of thing you might be able to put on your coffee table. Sometimes those blurbs make me feel like I'm reading an issue of Tiger Beat.
Or Cosmo, or Stuff, or a knitting mag, manga mag, video game mag, or practically anything now a days (at least for me), I guess.
GGG
One thing I did like seeing on the cover was the names of the adventure authors. That said, I hadn't actually noticed that they disappeared after issue 132 (unless your name is Cook or Baur, apparently). Are we to assume, then, that the names added nothing to sales?
More cover lines (especially cover lines with numbers) = more sales of that particular issue.
That seems such an odd correlation. The magazine issue number, or something else?
I'm thinking it has more to do with numbers like "8 NEW MONSTERS!" "1 HORRIBLE UNDEAD WIZARD!!!" "75th ANNIVERSARY EXTRAVAGANZA!!!" or "100 PAGES OF SCANTILY CLAD ELF BABES!!!"
That's what I suspect, also -- it's so peculiar what makes people buy :/
Though I'll take 10 copies of the "scantily-clad elf babes" :)
James:
Getting increasingly off-topic: how did someone happen to notice that numbers on the cover correlated with increased sales? What other oddities have been noticed?
And make no mistake -- this is an oddity.
Jack
People like numbers. It seems to trigger some sort of greed/possession instinct. Which would you rather have:
Some neat toys OR 7 Funky Wackamoles and 12 Thingamajigs!
That's what cover lines are for, to arouse irrational interest.
Some numbers, like 7 and 12, are also more popular than numbers like 6 and 9. I saw a chart of it once, can't remember where.
Some numbers, like 7 and 12, are also more popular than numbers like 6 and 9. I saw a chart of it once, can't remember where.
I would like to see a serious study of the popularity of "7 scantily-clad elf babes" vs "9 scantily-clad elf babes".
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Creative Director
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Getting increasingly off-topic: how did someone happen to notice that numbers on the cover correlated with increased sales? What other oddities have been noticed?
And make no mistake -- this is an oddity.
It's actually not an oddity. It's a fact of magazine publishing. As for who noticed it... I'm not sure, but it's been fairly common knowledge in the magazine industry for many years. Every magazine company has people who track the success of each issue, and then correlate each issue's success with its cover (including the color, image, size of cover lines, types of cover lines), the heft of the magazine, the placement of the magazine on the shelf, the size of the magazine, and so on. Over the course of countless issues and countless publishers, certain patterns stand out and are impossible to ignore.
One of those patters is that cover lines sell more magazines. And cover lines that include numbers, such as "8 New Monsters" or "15 ways to improve your Armor Class" do even better.
Other things that help sell magazines include the color red, a plainly visible (and plainly readable) title, and sex.
One of those patters is that cover lines sell more magazines. And cover lines that include numbers, such as "8 New Monsters" or "15 ways to improve your Armor Class" do even better.
For proof, just browse the magazine rack. You'll see things like "30 tips to lose 20 pounds in 10 days," "5 great vacation deals," and so on plastered all over the place.
Other things that help sell magazines include the color red, a plainly visible (and plainly readable) title, and sex.
The color red is interesting. Sex, of course, is obvious. Or at least it should be.
James, is there an industry handbook or manual that describes these marketing patterns in scientific terms, or is it mostly a collection of tried-and-tested anecdotes?
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Creative Director
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James, is there an industry handbook or manual that describes these marketing patterns in scientific terms, or is it mostly a collection of tried-and-tested anecdotes?
I've not seen any such handbook, although I assume somethign like it exists somewhere. It's mostly just stuff you learn once you start publishing magazines and/or talk to other magazine publishers.
Bah! I just realized I screwed up the quote tag in my previous post. I keep forgetting that a quote has to have the ="Name" part here to work properly....
Sorry, James. I wasn't trying to steal your words... :(
And make no mistake -- this is an oddity.
It's actually not an oddity. It's a fact of magazine publishing...
It's still an oddity :P
Thanks for that info. I knew cover design was quite a science, and was aware of the significance of many of the things you mentioned. Numbers selling magazines still puzzles me, though I don't doubt what you say.
Jack
James, is there an industry handbook or manual that describes these marketing patterns in scientific terms, or is it mostly a collection of tried-and-tested anecdotes?
Actually, in addition to folks' common (for the magazine industry) knowledge, every so often one of us sits down and takes the last few years' worth of issues and uses graphs and spreadsheets to search for correlations between things like numbers, colors, specific words, cover subjects, etc.
Where can I get this issue with 100 pages of scantily-clad elf babes?
One of those patters is that cover lines sell more magazines. And cover lines that include numbers, such as "8 New Monsters" or "15 ways to improve your Armor Class" do even better.
Other things that help sell magazines include the color red, a plainly visible (and plainly readable) title, and sex.
Fascinating! That must have made James Ryman's cover of Issue 137, which presented the barely-clad portrait of Arianne lounging on a field of scarlet spiders from "Siege of the Spider Eaters", a slam dunk. (Damn fabulous issue all around, too.)
Are there other elements or themes in the cover image that you've found make for particularly successful DUNGEON sales? Does action, like Wayne Reynold's "Mud Sorcerer's Tomb" image on Issue 138, sell better than more reposed images, like the Arianne cover on 137? Do buyers scoop up more images of heroic PC types, like Mr. Reynold's hot-&-funky wizard on the current issue's cover, or villains, like Howard Lyon's spectacular Mephistopheles portrait on 140, or monsters, like Roberto Campus's beholder on 141? Do buyers prefer fantastic landscape settings or underground dungeon settings? Dark images or light? Subtle values or filled with great contrast? Warms punctuated by cools or cools punctuated by warms?
I could be wrong, but it seems there's been something of a trend over the last few years towards more comic-book-like images throughout the magazine, like Wayne Reynold's fabulous work, and away from more realistic illustrations, like James Ryman's. Do cover images with the comic-book feel sell better than the more realistically rendered artwork?
Do the numbers hold magic only in cover lines? Would an illustration working legible numbers into the background (such as in a large bas-relief or inscriptions on a wall) carry any special appeal?
Please give those of us who aspire to illustrate some guidance!
-Ted
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Creative Director
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I'm sure that issue #137 would have done really well, if a mixup hadn't resulted in that issue shipping a week late to stores. As a result, it ended up doing poorly, since it missed out being on sale on the busiest week. But yeah, that cover was originally concepted to fire with all guns blazing.
Action scenes seem to do well, but there's also a contingent that holds that portrait-style covers (especially close ups of faces) sell well. That's why you saw so many issues of Dragon several years ago using this format. Turns out that doesn't work so well for our audience, although it does for other magazines.
The number trick only holds in cover lines. Numbers worked into the image itself aren't regarded as information about what's in the magazine.
As for comic book vs. photorealism, they both seem to do well. The style of art doesn't seem to matter nearly as much as the content, the color, and the cover lines.
It also takes many, many months for us to get reliable information about how our covers might have helped. Currently, anything beyond issue #137 or #138 is still pretty much unavailable.
Other subjects that seem to do well include dinosaurs, dragons, and vampires. For a long time, gorillas sold lots of issues, particularly comic books. Not sure how well gorillas work today. One thing that seems to really HURT sales, strangely enough, are mind flayers. Put a mind flayer on a cover, and pow, sales drop. Probably because they look more like a horror or sci-fi monster to an audience that wants fantasy, or maybe because they're so gross and ugly.
I have a bunch of Gorilla comic books if you want to buy them. Titano, Gorilla Grodd, etc.
:)
Thanks, Mr. Jacobs, that's fantastic feedback!
I'm well aware how shortsighted and dangerous relying on any kind of "formula" can be in any genre of artwork. A great composition, a compelling narrative, and an engaging theme won't simply flow from strict adherence to a list of stylistic preferences. Nonetheless, knowing that there are themes and elements that are particularly appealing to this audience is quite helpful.
Time to go paint a breathtaking female vampire in a red setting!
(And you want me to include a dragon? Uh, . . . okay. And a couple of dinosaurs too? Oh, . . . sure . . . I'll . . . get right on that. And, you want . . . a whole passel of . . . gorillas? Yeah. Right. Like that might happen.)
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One thing that seems to really HURT sales, strangely enough, are mind flayers. Put a mind flayer on a cover, and pow, sales drop. Probably because they look more like a horror or sci-fi monster to an audience that wants fantasy, or maybe because they're so gross and ugly.
That’s because seeing the Great Cthulhu (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) results in 1d10/d% loss of sanity! Everyone knows that you lose the “ability to communicate via speech or writing” when this happens (91% probability!)…
Seriously, my only contribution to this thread is to hope for full-page reproductions of the cover art on the last page of the magazine (both magazines). Occasionally, you guys do this, but more often we get a useless (to me, at least) “Map of Mystery.” A good example of why we should use the last page to show the cover unmarred: Dungeon issue 142, with the close up of the Priestess of Zargon. On p 5 we get a 1.5x2.5 inch repro of the cover, which includes a lot of background—full moon, worshipers atop a ziggurat! I felt cheated! Well, it wasn’t really all that. But I would have liked to see the full painting without a magnifying glass…
But I would have liked to see the full painting without a magnifying glass…
Then you're in luck! As it happens, we reprinted the cover image without cover lines on page 28 of that issue (142).
But I would have liked to see the full painting without a magnifying glass…
Then you're in luck! As it happens, we reprinted the cover image without cover lines on page 28 of that issue (142).
True enough, but I'm still on Andrew's side on this one. I love it when we get to see DUNGEON cover artwork at full scale without the overlapping text. In this regard, Issue 142's full-scale reprint of the cover is, I think, the exception, not the rule. I also like to see the whole image, not just the zoomed-in version used on the cover. (I appreciate that you guys know what sells magazines and do what you have to do, but I rarely find the composition of the zoomed-in version more compelling than the composition of the whole image that the artist created.)
But don't reprint the cover image at the expense of the Maps of Mystery! Those Maps of Mystery have spurred as many adventures for me as the written DUNGEON adventures have!
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Then you're in luck! As it happens, we reprinted the cover image without cover lines on page 28 of that issue (142).But I would have liked to see the full painting without a magnifying glass…
Oh...ummm...well, of course that's so, but I was trying to make a point! OK, you caught me; I don't know how I missed that, but I must have been so overwhelmed by past issues...OK, no excuses for my poor example...
As an aside, most of us responding in this thread are NOT the ones to whom the magazines are being 'sold.' We're either subscribers or monthly buyers who are going to pick the magazines up no matter how many blurbs they have or what cover art there is---I'm not trying to speak for all of us, of course, but the blurbs, etc only go toward how soon I read the magazine and which articles or adventures I peruse first.
As an aside, most of us responding in this thread are NOT the ones to whom the magazines are being 'sold.' We're either subscribers or monthly buyers who are going to pick the magazines up no matter how many blurbs they have or what cover art there is---I'm not trying to speak for all of us, of course, but the blurbs, etc only go toward how soon I read the magazine and which articles or adventures I peruse first.
Well, I am, especially for Dragon. If the issue has little of interest I probably skip it.
And I wonder how those well-researched selling points for magazine covers fit into individual magazines, like such niche markets which Dragon and Dungeon are (just like dinosaur cover probably won't boost sales for Cosmo).
I also wonder about different pulls for men and women, different age groups etc. Just because some type of cover sells a lot of issues, relying only on that type might still be hurtful in the long run if it caters to only one segment of potential readers (*cough* cheesecake *cough*).
I friend who works in magazine publishing recently told me that, regardless of the niche, research shows that numbers on the cover will sell magazines. Be it "7 Marauding Monsters!" or "30 New Ways to Please Your Man!" or "We Rate the Top 10 Modems!", for some reason it holds true.
Edit: I see somebody already pointed this out. In that case, replace the above with: What he said.
On reprinting the Cover Art inside the mag: I´m all for it, especially if it is done like in 142: full reprint as opening art for the adventure itself. That way, you get cool art on the cover, a "wow" on opening the copy at the adventure and discovering that the cover art was a part of a larger painting, an instant feeling of familiarity and maps of mystery as a bonus. I loved it. (as an aside, I could live without blurbs on the cover, but see it as a necessary evil.)
Stefan
I also wonder about different pulls for men and women, different age groups etc. Just because some type of cover sells a lot of issues, relying only on that type might still be hurtful in the long run if it caters to only one segment of potential readers (*cough* cheesecake *cough*).
Oddly enough I rarely see much in the way of beefcake on the covers of women's magazines while I stand in the checkout at Kroger. It seems that most mainstream magazines that feature guys on the cover are usually news or sports orientated periodicals and usually the person in question is mostly dressed or in a suit. Women's magazines at least on a cursory exam tend to be almost nothing but a women posing and smiling at you regardless of how skimpy or not their outfit is.
Speaking of issue 142. I want to publically thank both artists involved with Masque of Dreams, James Ryman and Michael Kaluta and the Paizo art direction team of Sean Glenn and Drew Pocza. You guys make me look good. Oh, and thanks for giving me another red cover. ;)
Matt
Oddly enough I rarely see much in the way of beefcake on the covers of women's magazines while I stand in the checkout at Kroger. It seems that most mainstream magazines that feature guys on the cover are usually news or sports orientated periodicals and usually the person in question is mostly dressed or in a suit. Women's magazines at least on a cursory exam tend to be almost nothing but a women posing and smiling at you regardless of how skimpy or not their outfit is.
Speaking of issue 142. I want to publically thank both artists involved with Masque of Dreams, James Ryman and Michael Kaluta and the Paizo art direction team of Sean Glenn and Drew Pocza. You guys make me look good. Oh, and thanks for giving me another red cover. ;)
Matt
You're looking at the wrong set of magazines, there are plenty male beefcake covers. Though they are not as plentiful as cheesecake covers, much to my dismay.
- Ashavan
You're looking at the wrong set of magazines, there are plenty male beefcake covers. Though they are not as plentiful as cheesecake covers, much to my dismay.- Ashavan
I'm with Ash here, can we up the beefcake ratio? I still say that Monk with the nice tattoos would be nice to see more.
All kidding aside, I'm all for whatever the heck sells more magazines. Covers are nice, art is nice, I enjoy art, but quite frankly - what I really want to see is your magazine doing well, so that I can keep buying it. If that means numbers on the cover, slap on the numbers. If I have to put up with drow elf women with spider fetishes and partial saving throws against wands of remove clothing, I'll cope. Just, y'know, the occasional male barbarian, that'd be nice. ;)
- Bram
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For Dungeon, I try my best to keep the coverlines as minimal and non-invasive as possible, but just as there'll always be advertisements inside the magazine, there'll always be at least SOME cover lines on its front.
You know, now that I think about it...I've always considered myself a visual person, which is to say I respond to visual stimuli before all else...however, now that I think about it, I remember cover lines and article titles, and rarely the cover art, as in, "'Shards of Eberron,'...the first module is in the June issue (Summer when I played it, Summer in Alaska means full sunlight at 2 AM, easy to remember)...June 2005." I walk over to the bookcase, scan, find 2005, find June, pull it out...oh, cool T-Rex v. warforged cover... Point: I LOVE dinosaurs. But I forgot about the cover art and only remembered the meat of the issue.
All kidding aside, I'm all for whatever the heck sells more magazines. Covers are nice, art is nice, I enjoy art, but quite frankly - what I really want to see is your magazine doing well, so that I can keep buying it. If that means numbers on the cover, slap on the numbers. If I have to put up with drow elf women with spider fetishes and partial saving throws against wands of remove clothing, I'll cope. Just, y'know, the occasional male barbarian, that'd be nice. ;)
My Wand of Dead Horse Flogging is running out of charges so no more of that, this is an old discussion...
But nevertheless, it is good to remember that those covers affect most when converting non-readers to new readers, and it is always good to remember that "this sells now, let's flood the market" is a good plan for short term but sucks on long term...
And admittedly Dragon and Dungeon does quite good cheesecake most of the time and throws in nice beefcake occasionally too.
My Wand of Dead Horse Flogging is running out of charges so no more of that, this is an old discussion...
...
And admittedly Dragon and Dungeon does quite good cheesecake most of the time and throws in nice beefcake occasionally too.
Mmmm...beefy... (Ok, not quite, but it is nice eye candy. :) )
*casts moribund equine thrashing on Magdalena's wand*
There! All recharged!