I have a suggestion re: falling damage.
If you fall from more than 1000ft you are reduced to 0HP on impact (not instant death but close). Falls from more that 1500ft start doing CON damage, 1 point per extra 500ft (1 at 1500ft, 2 at 2000ft etc). The damage taken in this manner could be healed normally.
I'm new to this board, but on the subject of massive damage, I wondered if any of you had ever read the d20 source book called Torn Asunder: Critical Hits. It adds a whole new new aspect to getting critically hit/dealt massive damage. The book details things like losing limbs, among many other things, and how to determine what gets lost, etc. It is a very interesting book to look through, even if you just use to to throw something different in to your campaign. I particularly liked a few of the Prestige Classes it offered, including one that they called Marksman, which increases the threat range and multiplier of your critical hits for a specific weapon. I don't own the book, so I can't reference it to see if it mentions anything about the falling damage example, but it might.
Heres another Variant rule I made up for massive damage which we use in our game.
If you want to use it do so, if you dont then just ...walk ... away... I dont want to see posts complaining why it is no good.
A characters threshold is 2x con + level.
So a 10 level fighter with 20 con would have a 50 threshold.
a 1st level wizard maybe 12
A 20th level fighter 60 or so.
The fort DC not to die is DC is 15 + 2 for every 10 above the Pcs thresh hold - so the DC when the 200 hp 20th level fighetr takes 100 damage in one hit is 23 or so... still easy...
I like that and might use it, and I'm not complaining, but just pointing out that the minimum threshold for PCs is likely to never be below 20. Even the 1st level wizard will typically try to get a 12 in Con or something, so 2 times that plus level comes out to 25. Still not an issue, since 1st and 2nd level characters rarely come into contact with that kind of damage (since it would kill them with or without massive damage), which gives them a few levels of relative safety from the mechanic before it starts to kick in. Again, I likes.
I have never been in love with MDT rules. Unearthed Arcana features some variants that are usable, but in the long run I think it punishes players that face constant massive damage through adventuring. They will face wizards who shoot maximized fireballs at them and fight monsters that can easily hit them for dozens of HP with a single hit.
I'm currently playing a Warcraft campaign with the CON threshold variant: you can take up to your constitution score (plus some modifiers according to size) otherwise you have to make a fort save or fall to -8 hp (not sure how the DM arrived at that figure, I could ask him). Fights are still lethal, but at least you don't die if you have a comrade near that can stabilize you.
To me, the most important question whenever I consider a rule such as this is the following: Does it make the game more fun? To me, it does not. Maybe some players will love it when they take that big bad dragon down with a single hit, but it surely will feel cheap when their 18 level barbarian goes down in a similar fashion. Randomness can wreck your well-planned campaign or kill a PC that had been brilliantly played up to that point.
I would apply a variant of Occam's Razor that should say something like: Any rule that does not make the game more fun or a richer, deeper experience for you and your players should be disregarded.
Well, if the guys at WOTC can clean up and simplify the wording, maybe they can print something of the sort in the intro to the DMG 4.0
All this talk about the Massive Damage rules has gotten me thinking... First off, I don't like the massive damage rules for hits. That's why we have crits and hit points, and I already like the vitality and wounds system for a grittier crit system...
On the matter of falling, though, I got to thinking of handling it similar to an attack. The fundamentals:
* The ground would make a touch attack vs the character. If it missed, the character took no damage, or maybe some minimum (possibly non-lethal).
* Damage dice would increase over distance. Recently, I thought of treating it as a 'slam' attack, with the damage based on a creature size of one larger than the falling creature. Damage would increase similar to increasing weapon size.
* Crit threat range would start at 20, increasing over distance. All crits are automatically confirmed.
* Crit multiplier would also increase over distance fallen.
* Attack bonus would increase over distance fallen as well.
The trick, however, is making it elegant enough that it's easy to use. Still, I'm thinking I could find a way to make it work. In the end, the goal is for the ground to nearly automatically hit most creatures and stand a good chance of critting. But, with a 1 still failing, then there's a slight chance a character could walk away with nothing.
Heres another Variant rule I made up for massive damage which we use in our game.
If you want to use it do so, if you dont then just ...walk ... away... I dont want to see posts complaining why it is no good.A characters threshold is 2x con + level.
So a 10 level fighter with 20 con would have a 50 threshold.
a 1st level wizard maybe 12
A 20th level fighter 60 or so.
The fort DC not to die is DC is 15 + 2 for every 10 above the Pcs thresh hold - so the DC when the 200 hp 20th level fighetr takes 100 damage in one hit is 23 or so... still easy...
Like this variant.
Here is what we are currently using, comments are welcome.
Damage is what is suggested in the DMG, i.e. 50 pts for Medium creatures.
However - The DC is raised by 1 for every 5 pts of damage beyond the ammount needed for the creatures size lvl.
Example: A Medium sized creature takes a hit for 70 pts of damage. This requires a DC19 fortitude save or die.
Why: The first 50 pts make it nescesary to roll a DC15 fortitude save or die. The DC is then raised by 4 pts to a DC19 due to the extra 20 pts of damage. (20 divided by 5 equals 4)
This system ensures that higher level PC's will indeed shrug off that 50 dmg done by a lucky crit. But the 110 pts done from an empowered fireball becomes harder to ignore.
My two coppers - Roth
I don't use the Massive Damage Rule myself. It just does not seem to add enough to justify its inclusion - unlike say criticals which add a lot of excitement.
Also I don't allow any spells or powers that bring things back from the dead so I have to give my players a break now and then - especially with something as arbitrary as massive damage, normally its just not that interesting a way to die and I think that deaths should be interesting when possible, hence I don't want to encourage rules that start to seem like death is a matter if just bad luck.
Interesting. You've probably said it before, so excuse my redundancy if such is the case, but do you do anything to compensate for this?
In reading some of the other posts, I'd have to say that I've come to an agreement with those that feel that Massive Damage just doesn't add enough for the effort it takes to remember it. It's slightly more realistic and such, and thus my initial attraction to it, but in the end, it probably just slows the game down with little return on entertainment (because either it doesn't work and wastes the players' time, or it does work and no one is particularly happy).
All this talk about the Massive Damage rules has gotten me thinking... First off, I don't like the massive damage rules for hits. That's why we have crits and hit points, and I already like the vitality and wounds system for a grittier crit system...
On the matter of falling, though, I got to thinking of handling it similar to an attack. The fundamentals:
* The ground would make a touch attack vs the character. If it missed, the character took no damage, or maybe some minimum (possibly non-lethal).
* Damage dice would increase over distance. Recently, I thought of treating it as a 'slam' attack, with the damage based on a creature size of one larger than the falling creature. Damage would increase similar to increasing weapon size.
* Crit threat range would start at 20, increasing over distance. All crits are automatically confirmed.
* Crit multiplier would also increase over distance fallen.
* Attack bonus would increase over distance fallen as well.
The trick, however, is making it elegant enough that it's easy to use. Still, I'm thinking I could find a way to make it work. In the end, the goal is for the ground to nearly automatically hit most creatures and stand a good chance of critting. But, with a 1 still failing, then there's a slight chance a character could walk away with nothing.
Interesting approach Xellan except constructs, undead and creatures with heavy fortification armour are immune to crits, and a being with a high dex can beat touch attacks. I know this is heroic fantasy and all but a fall from 100ft/33m is going to be lethal for us except in the luckiest of circumstances or into water and even there you quickly get to the point where even hitting water would be lethal. Also, at epic levels a monk or rogue or other high dex character might have a high enough touch ac to beat the attack roll of the ground even if they fall from orbit. Again interesting but one point to consider-the ground can't miss!
Interesting. You've probably said it before, so excuse my redundancy if such is the case, but do you do anything to compensate for this?
No resurrection spells, no miracle, no wish - dead is dead. There are a handful of powerful, generally one use items that break this rule but you have to be wearing the item when you die (only one player can do that) so that it can grab your life force before it escapes to wherever life force escapes to. So I don't really have to balance it - the campaign is already brutally lethal having players start dying because they where unlucky on a fort save is just too much. I'd worry about balancing it more if one could just get raised and move on.
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I have to admit that I like Sebastian's idea about falling, increase the number of dice by 1 every 10 feet, and every 200 feet increase the type of dice by one size(starting at d4s and ending at d20s at 100ft+). It seems to make a fair bit of sense, as you do start to accelerate the further you fall, it covers both the greater amount of force a person dropping from a larger height is going to experience while still leaving some leeway for imagination in those who want realism.
Sure, some people have fallen from planes and been able to walk away(or at least limp/crawl) but I'm sure the odds are astronomical, and you could always roll all ones on the d20s too.
Gives an interesting twist to things, something I might have to think about though I'm sure my players will cry over it.
I too dislike the massive damage rules and don't employ them in play. However, I do use a variant clobbered rule that is fun and may or may not be character life ending.
Clobbered
When massive damage is inflicted on an individual susceptible to massive damage that individual must make a Fortitude save of DC 5 + half damage inflicted - Constitution bonus (if any) or be considered clobbered. A clobbered individual can make only one action (free, move or standard) until his next turn and receives a -4 penalty on all attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks and saves for the duration of the round.
Massive damage is considered any single blow delivered from a spell, melee or range attack that delivers 50 hit points of damage or half the individuals maximum hit points, whichever is greater. Accumulated attacks are not considered massive damage and the rule only applies to single blows that delivered the indicated number.
For example, a 11th level fighter with 120 hit points is targeted with a spell that inflicts 52 hit points of damage, that individual does not need to make a clobbered check. If the same spell had inflicted 63 points (more than half of the individual’s hit points, then a clobbered check is made and the fighter would need to succeed on a Fortitude save of DC 32 (DC 5 + 31 half damage inflicted - 4 Constitution bonus) or be clobbered for one round.
After a couple of uses, PCs and monsters alike have been clobbered, and reeling for a round. For our game use it is more enjoyable than slaying a PC or monster outright.