Killer GM runs Age of Worms


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P.H. Dungeon wrote:

Well if you are trying to keep your campaigns a little shorter then I think the Istivin trilogy would be a good bet, and Maure Castle could be as short or long as you want it.

You would have to commit to another fairly lengthy campaign to get through Rune Lords, though probably not as long as AoW. However, Runelords does certainly pay some homage to the Against the Giants series, and since you have spoken of those adventures with obvious fondness, I thought you might be into giving the Rune Lords a go.

Allen Stewart wrote:
And P.H., no, Rise of the Runelords is not on the top of the list at the moment. Perhaps I'll leave that for Turin, somewhere down the road...

Shorter more in the sense of levels 1-15 is great to GM. I'd GM at those levels year-round. Once you hit levels 17 and above, things get complicated and convoluded very quickly...

Turin hasn't broached Rise of the Rune Lords, prior to his response to your post. I'd certainly play in it. The question will become when we've cleared out the other adventures we each have slated to GM first, how many other things will have since come out that may get a higher billing. Runelords, may be a casualty of simply too many cool items and campaigns to choose from. I'll probably add the redone S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth to the list.


Cato Novus wrote:

This thread is simply awesome. Reminds me of how I almost killed the entire party in sequential sessions using

#1 Half-Zombies(my own crazed creation).

#2 A dryad summoned by the party's own druid(who was being possessed by a Zombie Lord).

#3 A freshly raised minotaur(who impaled the druid upon his horns and fought the rest of the party with the druid dangling from his horns).

Glad you enjoy the thread Cato. Glad you came upon it before it comes to an end, here in the next few weeks. Though, I'm hopeful that there will be other "Killer GM" threads in the near future also. I'm also trying to post the 'Resident Artist's illustrations of various villains of this campaign over on photobucket.com. more on that hopefully in the near future. I'll put the link on this thread if I can, once it's done.


ArchLich wrote:
ArchLich wrote:
You know Allem. I have been wondering this: Why don't your players have some clone spells on the side? Especially with a mage handy or the like. Nothing surprises a person (PC or NPC) more then when they kill a person and that same person shows up in time to still help in that very same battle.
Hope you realize that should say "Allen". My apologies.

I don't know why my players have been squeamish about cloning their PC's, Archlich. The one straight wizard in the party tends not to "experiment" with things outside of her general sphere of operations & information. Turin has to some extent addressed the problem by casting his various spells that bring fallen PC's back to continue the same fight. I'd be fine if the group did make use of clones, as its more PC kills for me, and I know what I'm dealing with, rather than a mystery newcomer I've got to figure out how to tackle. Too bad the Players didn't come up with the idea of clones before now. What effect it would have ultimately had, hard to guess...


That's interesting, I didn't like the Lost Caverns remake. I think Maure castle is much better. Lost caverns seems like just cave after cave with different monsters in it with nothing particualarly interesting about the enounters. I haven't read it thoroughly, but just browsing through it there weren't many encounters that were really catching my attention. Maure castle on the other hand is also a pretty hack and slash dungeon crawl, but has a lot of really interesting and creative ideas. I really like the chamber of anitquities level, with the cool new construct and the undead priestess that can turn you into the size of an insect and then eat you and freeze you in statsis (and lots of other things in that one as well).

Allen Stewart wrote:
P.H. Dungeon wrote:

Well if you are trying to keep your campaigns a little shorter then I think the Istivin trilogy would be a good bet, and Maure Castle could be as short or long as you want it.

You would have to commit to another fairly lengthy campaign to get through Rune Lords, though probably not as long as AoW. However, Runelords does certainly pay some homage to the Against the Giants series, and since you have spoken of those adventures with obvious fondness, I thought you might be into giving the Rune Lords a go.

Allen Stewart wrote:
And P.H., no, Rise of the Runelords is not on the top of the list at the moment. Perhaps I'll leave that for Turin, somewhere down the road...

Shorter more in the sense of levels 1-15 is great to GM. I'd GM at those levels year-round. Once you hit levels 17 and above, things get complicated and convoluded very quickly...

Turin hasn't broached Rise of the Rune Lords, prior to his response to your post. I'd certainly play in it. The question will become when we've cleared out the other adventures we each have slated to GM first, how many other things will have since come out that may get a higher billing. Runelords, may be a casualty of simply too many cool items and campaigns to choose from. I'll probably add the redone S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth to the list.


In about 9 hours or so the Last Huzzah sallies forth to smite evil and ... ah, who are we kidding ... we're worm food.

Hudson voice " Game Over, man, Game Over! We're in some pretty sh*t now, man, whadda we do?! " ^_^


Turin the Mad wrote:

In about 9 hours or so the Last Huzzah sallies forth to smite evil and ... ah, who are we kidding ... we're worm food.

Hudson voice " Game Over, man, Game Over! We're in some pretty sh*t now, man, whadda we do?! " ^_^

Why...Yes, You are...


P.H. Dungeon wrote:

That's interesting, I didn't like the Lost Caverns remake. I think Maure castle is much better. Lost caverns seems like just cave after cave with different monsters in it with nothing particualarly interesting about the enounters. I haven't read it thoroughly, but just browsing through it there weren't many encounters that were really catching my attention. Maure castle on the other hand is also a pretty hack and slash dungeon crawl, but has a lot of really interesting and creative ideas. I really like the chamber of anitquities level, with the cool new construct and the undead priestess that can turn you into the size of an insect and then eat you and freeze you in statsis (and lots of other things in that one as well).

Allen Stewart wrote:
P.H. Dungeon wrote:


PH, I think that part of the attraction to S4/Lost Caverns is that it is a remake from a classic from the 1st edition days. My main attraction to it is undoubtedly sentimental in nature, and I hope to pass that onto all the younger Turds that Turin and I GM. I'm equally fond of Maure Castle, and to be honest, if I had to choose, I'd slightly favor Maure Castle, but that being said, I love both. Tsojcanth was beloved by players and GM's alike in 1st edition. It was the first module ever to introduce SO MANY new monsters and items. Tsojcanth had a great story line and tapped into the history of the Greyhawk campaign heavily (as does Maure). Any trip to the Lost Caverns usually also resulted in a trip to the nearby Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun as well. And as teenagers, myself and my fellow players were all in awe of the next "addition" to the famed 'S' series of dungeon modules, not mention that it was written by Gawdfawther Gary himself. Myself, Turin, and Jim B., way back in the day would pick various "Series" of adventures to GM for each other and the few other people who periodically played with us. Turin had the 'G' series, Jim had the 'C' series. I had the 'A' and 'S' series, strange coincidence with the initials of my name... But Turin scooped up S4 before I could lay my hands on it, and although irritated at Turin at the time, I got to play through it rather than GM it, which was immensely enjoyable in hindsight, though it severely irked me initially. And that was the first adventures I played two of my star characters in that would go onto be a part of the legendary "WDM" (Walking Death Machine) which was a group of PC's that charged into battle and slaughtered everything in sight in melee combat in favor of magical or ranged attack, and did so for many years...

If Tsojcanth doesn't do it for you, than it doesn't do it for you, but I merely mention, because the adventure has such clout with us folks who played way back in 1st edition, and remember it fondly.


And as far as the Killer Age of Worms is concerned, I am to depart within the hour to go to our humble nearby game store where the 32nd and Final session of my campaign is set to begin, and hopefully to oblitterate the vile and Warmongering PC's and usher in the wonderful Age of Worms. Everyone wave their puke green colored flags in support of Kyuss, please!


You can always count on gamers to put a lot of ranks into their nostalgia skill.

Grand Lodge Contributor

Interesting thread, Killer GM =)

About Arcane Strike, I don't think the feat needs fixing if you read the stacking rules carefully. Quoth the SRD (emphasis mine):

In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus and worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonuses however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified.

The way I read it, the bonuses to attack rolls and damage from the feat overlap. The same goes with the spell Ray of Enfeeblement which I think was discussed earlier in this thread. (?)

Anyway, good gaming Allen!

Allen Stewart wrote:
Galli wrote:

Sweet. Thanks Turin. =)

Too bad that Complete Arcane is not allowed in our current campaign(s).

Can't wait to see what you're cooking up for Kyuss.

-Galli
PS. The "Turn like no cleric has turned before" PC is my favore thus far.

Glad you enjoy the thread Galli. Do rest assurred, if you thought Dragotha was hard on the PC's, I will make SURE Kyuss is even worse, and I have no intentions of allowing a happy ending, as I imagined eventually I'd have to do with Dragotha. I won't now go into exact detail as to Kyuss' tactics and preparations (save to say that the Dragonfolk Duskblade will not live to even attempt an Arcane Strike again), but I will say that I intend to eliminate each and every character and Proudly usher in the Age of Worms:D Afterwards, I'll probably refer my players to therapists/counselors for grief counseling...


Allen Stewart wrote:
And as far as the Killer Age of Worms is concerned, I am to depart within the hour to go to our humble nearby game store where the 32nd and Final session of my campaign is set to begin, and hopefully to oblitterate the vile and Warmongering PC's and usher in the wonderful Age of Worms. Everyone wave their puke green colored flags in support of Kyuss, please!

*Yasha removes his face...revealing a horrible, writhing visage....*

Go Team Kyuss!!!
Kill them for us!
Throw em under the bus!
Go team Kyuss!


I do so look forward to Allen's posting of the concluding 'episode' of his Age of Worms campaign. ^_^


Dammit Turin! Being snide and not giving any hints!

Lets hear the endgame Allen.

Scarab Sages

Serpent wrote:
The way I read it, the bonuses to attack rolls and damage from the feat overlap. The same goes with the spell Ray of Enfeeblement which I think was discussed earlier in this thread.

That's certainly how our group rules on Ray of Enfeeblement/Clumsiness and Touch of Idiocy. You can cast it again if you get a poor roll, but they don't stack.

If they did, there'd be no need for any other tactics; 2 or 3 of any of them would take out most PC races of any level...

Common sense beats Rules As Written every time; though I'm sure that is the writers' intent, they could have explicitly made that clear in the spell description, and saved every group having to debate it.


I'm working on the post now. It's long, and complicated to write. I'll try to post it tonight. Sorry for the wait, but have faith, you WON'T be disappointed >:D


Before I recount the events of this past Saturday’s Final session, I want list some of the reasons that the group experienced many of the difficulties which they were faced with today. After previously defeating Dragotha, the PC’s received the message from Tenser that the Age of Worms was about to begin in Alahaster. The Dungeon magazine stipulated that there was 1 week of time following the battle with Dragotha before Kyuss was completely free. The player characters however did not win the first battle with Dragotha, nor the second, and thus by the time they had destroyed Dragotha, there was less than 48 hours before the Age of Worms began. It was my decision to begin the countdown following the first battle with Dragotha, which the Players were informed of, rather than start it after the third and final battle with Dragotha. I believe that was the intention of the author to begin with, and that failing to take Dragotha out had that additional consequence. Starting the countdown after the third battle would have given the players plenty of time to shop for new items and other goodies using all the treasure from Dragotha’s hoard, which James Jacobs (author of Into the Wormcrawl Fissure) stated they should not have).
Although their time was short, the players did not even consider further communication with Tenser the Archmage (he is named Manzorian in the AP). While I did have him inform the PC’s of the impending Age of Worms, I elected to allow the players to come up with the idea to consult him further to obtain additional information. The magazine basically Spoon Feeds the PC’s all the information they need to win, and I felt that the players at least needed to have the brains to choose to consult with Tenser to obtain that info. They did not, and suffered accordingly. Instead, the group teleported directly to Alahaster, and went straight for the new Spire of Long Shadows. They did not lift a finger to aid the citizens of Alahaster or fight the minions of Kyuss which were destroying the city, nor did they ever learn of the Unlife Vortex or attempt to disable it. As a result, when Kyuss arrived, he was a Divine Factor 1, and had NO impediments to his abilities. The biggest problem for the PC’s was that this allowed Kyuss to spontaneously cast all Cleric spells, meaning that I could pick any Cleric/domain spell I wanted and cast it when I wanted before/during combat. The PC’s also did not have any artifacts nor did they have a Sphere of Annihilation when they fought Kyuss himself. During the combat with Kyuss himself, NONE of the Players engaged Kyuss directly. I don’t yet comprehend their reluctance to do so, but they all opted to go after his minions first, and that gave Kyuss time to start knocking a PC off each round, until things got out of hand.
In today’s session, there were Five (5) Player Characters present, and before Kyuss arrived, the group had Gated in Three (3) Solars, each of which is a CR 23 creature. Given the caliber of most of the absent player’s characters, the addition of the Solars pretty much made it an 8-PC fight. The five PC’s in question were Turin the Mad’s Cleric 4.0 (20th level), the Dragonfolk Feral Duskblade 19, Elf Wizard 19, Dwarf Cleric #2, and a Cleric 18 (new PC).


As a note, prior to the final battle, I modified some of Kyuss’ feats & spells. I removed his 2 Create Items feats, (I figured after 1,500 years of imprisonment, he wasn’t interested in crafting anything) in exchange for Power Attack and Cleave, his Corpse Crafter feat in exchange for Arcane Strike, his Maximize Spell feat and a Disadvantage (-1 to AC) in exchange for Endurance and Die Hard, and lastly his “Destruction/Retribution“ feat (I never did figure out what this was supposed to do) in exchange for Divine Meta Magic Quicken. If this final feat was somehow necessary, I’d have swapped out Kyuss’ Fell Drain Spell Feat, which he never made use of. Kyuss had precast 21 spells in his prison before he exited into his Force cage (his 22nd and final precast/held spell) to await combat. Those spells were: Immunity to Sonic, Immunity to Fire, Divine Favor, Divine Power (this alone gave Kyuss a +14 on his base attack score,), Greater Spell Immunity, Ray of Deflection, Scintillating Scales, Protection from Spells, True Seeing, Greater Heroism, Fly, Freedom of Movement, Bite of the Were bear (insane bonuses), Anti-Life Shell, Life Ward, Iron Guard, Haste, False Life, Superior Invisibility, Delay Death, and Force Cage (which Kyuss held until he completed his exit from his prison. Because Kyuss was a Divine Factor 1 I could basically pick any Cleric or Domain spell I wanted. I also tweaked Kyuss’ spell Sorcerer spell list somewhat also. I left his Demi-Gawd spell list unmodified. Kyuss’ modified saving throws ended up at: +43/30/52; His AC remained roughly the same; his Hit Points went up to 840 from 660, and he had 859 with his False Life spell. Kyuss’ modified (buffed) attack bonus was: +66/+61/+56/+51/+66, and he hit for 4d6+34+2d6.


In today’s Thirty-second and FINAL session of the Killer Age of Worms campaign, there were SEVEN (7) Player Character Fatalities, and Kyuss SUCCESSFULLY ushered in the Age of Worms. Our final Player Character kill count for the campaign ends at EIGHTY-SIX (86).

We began where we ended off last week. After forcing Lashonna and several others to retreat, the PC’s had one round to recuperate. They proceeded to begin to Gate in 3 Solars (taking that round and the round that followed I believe). As soon as that round ended, the minions of Kyuss who had moved away from combat the round before (the surviving Blessed Angel, Lashonna, and Maralee) returned, and were joined by two Brood Fiends, one of whom teleported the other directly behind Dwarf Cleric #2. On the second Brood Fiends’ action, (the one who was teleported behind Dwarf Cleric #2)he attacked Dwarf Cleric #2, and hit with both bite attacks, and drained Dwarf Cleric #2 for 13 points of Intelligence, KILLING him immediately, as he had only a 10 Intelligence score. Dwarf Cleric #2 had never previously been killed during the campaign, and he had racked up several True Resurrection items, and was to return before the next round.
At the beginning of the next round of combat, Kyuss emerged from his prison. Although he could not take any actions on the round following his exit from the prison, he had previously (while in his prison-as the adventure text makes no prohibition against him spelling up) cast a Force Cage spell and held it. Upon exiting Kyuss’ prison, Kyuss released it & the spell took effect, effectively trapping himself inside the Force Cage, but also serving to protect him from outside attacks. Maralee, who had removed herself from the previous combat moved (under the effects of a Fly Spell).
In the second round of combat, the Dragonfolk Feral Duskblade shot an Undead Bane and to my absolute Irritation Maralee rolled a Nat ‘1’ on her Saving throw and was Destroyed, without taking or dishing out even a single hit point of damage.
My irritation was then Multiplied by ten when in the following round, Dragonfolk Feral Duskblade charged at and used his ARCANE STRIKE yet again, this time on Lashonna, taking her from Full HP to less than 50 remaining in one round. The Elf Wizard PC would subsequently oblitterate Lashonna with a Sunburst spell and ended her afternoon unhappily. One PC continued to gate in the Solars. The Solars then began moving into attack positions. Yet not withstanding these unfortunate setbacks, the good times were about to begin!!!!!!!!!!

In the next round, Kyuss went first. He used a Divine Meta Matic Quickened Teleport to teleport out of the Forcecage and over next to the Dragonfolk Duskblade. I then informed Mr. Duskblade that I was going to use his interpretation of the Arcane Strike rule on his sorry ass for a change, and was going to Power Attack for 30 to boot. I hit on all Five attacks with Kyuss’ Executioner’s Mace and did (with only 20 spell levels on the Arcane Strike) about 750 Hit Points of damage; and Mr. Duskblade became a BLOODY SMEAR on the tower roof, ending up at about Negative 550 HP!!!!!!!!! In that same round, Dwarf Cleric #2 had his brain EATEN a second time in only 3 rounds by the same Brood Fiend, and DIED HORRIBLY,… AGAIN. Dwarf Cleric #2 was then True Res’d for the second and final time of the afternoon. Turin the Mad proceeded to summon lots of low hit point minions via a spell. He referred to his minions as ‘Squid Bats’. (The term was new to me). The Squid Bats began biting the Brood Fiend #2 for a small amount of damage. The new 18th level cleric cast Maze upon himself and went inside the Maze (deliberately) for the purpose of attempting to Gate in EIGHT (8) more Solars. I was quite taken aback by the player’s proposed actions, but I said nothing, and didn’t even raise the question of whether or not he could do this. I merely resolved in my mind to destroy all other PC’s before eight rounds passed and then to take on the Cleric and his Solars when they arrived.
The player of the new PC Cleric then began his shameful bending of the rules (which was to culminate later) and petitioned me to allow him to have one of the Solar’s cast a Wish and burn 5,000 XP to raise his sorry Player Character. I disagreed but allowed him to do it anyway against my better judgment. The Dragonfolk Duskblade then charged and started putting the hurtin’ on one of the Brood Fiends (can I just tell you how much I love those Brood Fiends, they’re wonderful). The other Brood Fiend had teleported behind the Elf Wizard PC and nailed her with a Quickened Harm, and knocked her down to about 50 HP. At this point, the PC’s were more or less in retreat mode and all started gathering close to Turin the Mad’s Cleric 4.0 When the second Brood Fiend moved to engage the Elf Wizard PC, the summoned Squid Bats moved after him and continued to bite away at him. Dwarf Cleric #2 then used a combination Quickened Acid Admixture’d Firestorm (maximized by incense of meditation) and a Acid-Substituted Acid-Admixture’d Firestorm (maximized by incense of meditation) which required 14 of his 22 daily Turn Attempts to power these Divine Meta Magic actions!!!. He did only some damage to the Brood Fiends due to their immunities & resistances, but he Obliterated the remaining Blessed Angel, a modified & special villain of mine, who had unsuccessfully attempted to perforate the PC Elf Wizard during the last two rounds. You CREEP.

On Kyuss’ action in the following round, he cast another Divine Meta Magic Quickened Teleport to move next to the recently True Res’d Dragonfolk Duskblade and crushed him for about another 750 HP, KILLING him for the 2nd time in only 2 rounds!!!!!!!!!
At this point in the combat, the remaining characters (Turin’s Cleric, the Elf Wizard, and Dwarf Cleric #2) were bunched in together trying to deal with the two Brood Fiends, and Kyuss was about 40 or 50 feet away, just having SMASHED the Duskblade into Tomato Paste for the second time. On Turin the Mad’s action, he moved away from where he had been previously positioned, and then Turin surprised everyone, and detonated his Squid Bats at that point (I think the other players knew he was going to do it sometime, just likely when they weren‘t so close), and in the process obliterated Dwarf Cleric #2, the Elf Wizard and possibly Ying the Dragonthingie Dusk blade (I don’t recall if he was raised for a third time--if so, I’m due another PC kill for my tally) along with the other two Brood Fiends upon detonating, thus I’m attributing 2 or perhaps 3 of the PC Kills to Brother Faust the Elder, Turin‘s character. The sequence of events of the squidbats went as follows (after the 30 squidbats nibbled for the second round). The squidbats nibbled, Turin backed off 40 feet, dropped his entire flock of 30 squidbats to -8 hp via Mass Inflict Light Wounds, all of the named, summoned squidbats' life forces were snuffed by the Widened Consumptive Field - causing them to detonate for 270d6 of force damage [average dice generating 1,215 hp with no SR or save] due to Contingent Death Throes at caster level 9 on each named squidbat - while granting Brother Faust a further +10 to his caster level, an additional 30d8 temporary hit points (bringing his maximum hp total to over 600) and adding another +60 to his current STR of 66 totalling 126. All I can say to that folks, is WOW.

Never-the-less, I felt I had the upper hand. Kyuss had previously cast Delay Death, and he had the Endurance and Die Hard feats, meaning that Kyuss could effectively take an INFINITE amount of HP of damage over the next 14 remaining rounds before he died, he need only burn a Wish or a Miracle spell to restore all lost HP. The players not knowing this, could have then used a Greater Dispel Magic or a Disjunction to kill Kyuss, had they some how dropped him below zero HP (which happily they never even came close to).
I then called an impromptu private discussion with Turin and myself, to which the player of Dwarf Cleric #2 was present to witness (he'd died three times already today, and I figured, who cares if he knows what I'm up to now:). I informed Turin that Kyuss could Quicken Teleport to him, and then Arcane Strike him with well over 100 Sorcerer spell levels and easily destroy his character. I informed Turin that Kyuss was more inclined to invite Turin’s Cleric 4.0 (who was already an evil cleric to begin with) the opportunity to join him (Kyuss) in beginning the Age of Worms and destroying the city of Alahaster and everybody in it. And Turin Accepted:)

I expected to have major Fall Out from several of the players present (And I did), but Turin and I agreed that we could come up with an “Unofficial Version” to give to the players present so that they would not feel that we had just invalidated the last 13 months of their Saturday Game attendance. Turin agreed to automatically fail a Dominate Monster spell cast by Kyuss. *Do note however, that the 'failed save vs dominate monster' was a ruse to try to give them a kinder explanation as to why Turin was about to potentially help me destroy their one last chance for success.
Once play resumed, on Kyuss' next action, Turin's cleric heard the suggested action, and being a Chaotic Evil Alienist-Cleric of Tharizdun, used the psychological advantage of the uttered spell (with a Spellcraft check even on a nat 1 bieng sufficient to identify the spell bieng cast) and subsequent command to gleefully butcher the surviving characters and solars as the chance presented itself. Kyuss then moved into positon to intercept the one other remaining PC Cleric when he returned from the Maze Spell with his eight Solars, while Turin began moving his remaining Squid Bat Rocs into position to deal with the Solars. When the Cleric and the Solars exited from the Maze, the player in question (sent the game into a prolonged arguement), and stated that he was having one Solar burn 5,000 XP on a Wish Spell to have the entire party True Res’d. I told him that the spell could not duplicate the effects of 3 True Resurrection spells, and wouldn’t work. The player then told me he was going to have Multiple Solars each burn 5,000 XP to raise slain PC’s individually. I told the player that I did not believe that multiple Solars would each do this, as they were Gated in, and were not specifically loyal enough to the PC’s to do such an action. Then ensued a rather lengthy and unpleasant argument.
Ultimately, I informed the Player in question that all the argument and discussion was all for not, BECAUSE, Kyuss was already in place when the Cleric and Solars arrived. And because exiting a Maze spell requires a FULL ROUND action (even if you make the intelligence check or cast Find the Path), the PC Cleric and ALL of the Solars had to take their full round actions to exit the Maze and could take no other actions on that round. Then it was Kyuss’ action. Given 100 spell levels on an Arcane Strike (Using the current group’s RIDICULOUS interpretation of the feat/rule), Kyuss could hit the Cleric and the Solars even on a ‘Nat’ 1, and did at AVERAGE of 358 HP of damage per hit with his Executioner‘s Mace, enhanced by Arcane Strike with 100 spell levels, using the player Current (and in my opinion Incorrect) interpretation of the Arcane Strike rule. In 5 attacks in one round, Kyuss then CRUSHED the remaining PC Cleric and ALL EIGHT Solars IN ONE ROUND, cleaving into each next Solar when the previous one was killed in ONE HIT.
That’s it, end of campaign.

Why did it end this way? Obviously, if the players had won the fight, then they win, and there’s nothing I can do about it. If the players had done things differently before arriving at the fight, had acquired various items/artifacts, and ‘Fought despair in the city’ and disabled the Unlife Vortex, then I think the end result would have been in their favor, notwithstanding my attempts to deny them.
Why ALLOW it to end this way? It was definitely a difficult decision, as I love the Greyhawk campaign, and always have (and I strongly dislike the Forgetable Realms and Gooberon to boot). Three reasons for the decision. First, simple, if the bad guys can win, then it’s only fair to let the dice fall where they may. The good guys don't always win. I refuse to buttering up this fight to please my players with a “happy ending”. Second, Gary Gygax’s final ‘Gord the Rogue’ book “Dance of Demons”, described a freed Tharizdun and his demonic armies destroying much of the World of Greyhawk, that the character Gord and allies failed to defeat or contain. I took that book as how Gygax ultimately saw his campaign world ending up, in the aftermath of his departure from TSR, and… Third reason, Turin the Mad’s 2005 “Dark Age of Greyhawk” as I call it, was set in Greyhawk after a Cataclysm caused by Tharizdun’s release had caused (possibly inspired by Gygax‘s book, I don’t think I ever asked him why).
I took the current player’s failure to defeat Kyuss as a way of spearheading the end result of what I felt Gygax ultimately decided for the Greyhawk campaign (whatever his reasons might have been, I don’t know). Thus now, I have a ruined and largely depopulated continent of Oerik to create and detail, and to create whole new campaigns for. I think it will be extremely interesting for both myself and future players to adventure in.


I’ll await some of your posts before I continue my comments and begin to give my final wrap(s) on this campaign. Additionally, I'm still trying to work on posting a link to the Illustrations of some of the Villains seen in this campaign on Photobucket.com, so look for those hopefully in the next few weeks. Turin’s Savage Tide campaign will begin on December 1, 2007, and I will be a player in that game. It will be nice to be a player for a while. But fear not. The KILLER GM is not going quietly into retirement, nor repenting of the 86 dead PC’s in his wake. There will be yet future campaigns (albeit shorter ones, as players have a hard time maintaining interest over 12+ month campaign, when they’re dying at a rate of 2.6 characters PER each game session).

I will greatly miss this forum and the pleasure of reporting on this most "unusual" campaign (judging by the other Campaign Journals). I have enjoyed it, and I look forward in the future to hearing from many of you again, when the likes of "Killer GM Runs the Styes & the Weavers", "Killer GM Runs the Istivin Trilogy", "Killer GM Runs Maure Castle", or "Killer GM Runs ???" appears in the campaign journal headlines. In the meantime, keep an eye on Turin's Savage Tide #2 thread.

The first demonstrations of WoTC 4.0 Edition D&D system will occur in February 2008 in Crystal City (Arlington) Virginia at a Convention. Some of you may have heard of this convention set to take place there. Turin and myself will be attending this convention, as we live only about 15 or 20 miles from Arlington. If by chance I happen to meet any of you delightful ladies and gentlemen who have posted on this thread, I would be most delighted to make your acquaintence, and talk about our latest ventures in the wasting of Player Characters in whatever games you GM. So look for Turin and I's name tags and say hello.


Serpent wrote:

Interesting thread, Killer GM =)

About Arcane Strike, I don't think the feat needs fixing if you read the stacking rules carefully. Quoth the SRD (emphasis mine):

In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus and worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonuses however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified.

The way I read it, the bonuses to attack rolls and damage from the feat overlap. The same goes with the spell Ray of Enfeeblement which I think was discussed earlier in this thread. (?)

Anyway, good gaming Allen!

Allen Stewart wrote:
Galli wrote:

Thanks Serpent, Glad you've enjoyed the thread.


That arcane strike. Ugglllyy.

But fair is fair. Use an invented twist of the rules and not expect a DM to then use that same door? It would be like a DM opening a can of twisted logic or made up items or spells for his/her BBEG and not expecting the players to pounce on it like a bunch of starving ghouls leaping on a fallen paladin.


That was beautiful, Allen. Thank you for sharing this baroque spectacle of carnage with us.


wOOT! wOOT! wOOT!

Hail to the herald of the Age of Worms! Killer GM Allen Stewart!

Way to turn the prevailing 'interpretation' of Arcane Strike against them.
I was particularly hoping that you would do this, but I wasn't entirely certain of your plan regarding the party. Considering that you had intimate knowledge of the PCs strengths and weaknesses, any advice I really could have given you would have done better.

All said, awesome battle. Awesome end...hmm, I guess you don't actually have to wait for 4th ed to do a points of light campaign eh?
Or you can use this as a perfect impetus to jump into the changes in mechanics that are going to happen with the transition anyway.

Turin...I mentioned it before...what in the world would make them think they could trust a Priest of Tharizdun??? Hmm...let me think, would the God of Destruction and Entropy want the AoW to happen? I certainly think so. Awesome that you guys worked out the 'turning rogue' angle. That is exactly what I was hoping for, and you guys delivered in spades.

86 PC Deaths!!!! wOOT!


Allen, I don't know you or your playing group at all so take this with a large pinch of salt. Turin the Mad PC's decision to switch sides on his fellow PC's may have made total sense from an in-character perspective, but I imagine that I would have felt pretty crappy about it as a fellow player. Doesn't it render the entire campaign lead up to this final session totally irrelevent?

I guess I play D&D to take on and defeat the bad guys, not to side with them and help them take over the world. I also dislike evil PC's since it nearly always results in the PC's eventually turning on each other at some stage (having said that, I love the RPG, Paranoia).

Like I said though, I don't know you or your players so take what I say with a large pinch of salt.

Olaf the Stout


Congratulations on seeing Age of Worms through to completion. I hope that I can do the same with Savage Tide, though my kill rating won't be near 86 (maybe closer to 12). It sounded like a nasty final fight (with some really ridiculous exploitation of the rules I might add). I'm still a little unclear on how Turin's cleric manage to cast 30 some odd contingent death throes spells on a bunch of critters he summoned (what were they any how?). Reading about some of these fights seriously makes my head spin and dread running the later parts of Savage Tide. Right now we're sitting around 13th level and its going smooth, but I'm praying that my players won't start trying to pull the kind of BS your players do (I don't think I would enjoy the game if they did). Props to you for putting up with that crap and sending it right back at them.

How were your players feeling after the final battle? Did they walk out feeling good about the campaign or were they frustrated that they were all slaughtered and Kyuss beat them?


P.H. Dungeon wrote:

Congratulations on seeing Age of Worms through to completion. I hope that I can do the same with Savage Tide, though my kill rating won't be near 86 (maybe closer to 12). It sounded like a nasty final fight (with some really ridiculous exploitation of the rules I might add). I'm still a little unclear on how Turin's cleric manage to cast 30 some odd contingent death throes spells on a bunch of critters he summoned (what were they any how?). Reading about some of these fights seriously makes my head spin and dread running the later parts of Savage Tide. Right now we're sitting around 13th level and its going smooth, but I'm praying that my players won't start trying to pull the kind of BS your players do (I don't think I would enjoy the game if they did). Props to you for putting up with that crap and sending it right back at them.

How were your players feeling after the final battle? Did they walk out feeling good about the campaign or were they frustrated that they were all slaughtered and Kyuss beat them?

Well, remember, when you have named (unique) summonable monsters, one can (via plane shift, greater scrying, et al) travel to where they live and give them swag - in this case, Craft Contingent Item: Death Throes. The squidbats (pseudonatural very low-level monsters) were brought in via (Metamagic Rod, Lesser: Twin) Summon Monster of sufficient level to summon (under incense of meditation) 10 critters a pop. Divine Metamagic Quicken and Rapid Spell plus a one-use Time Stop permitted me to expend my turn attempts and summon 3 sets of 10 squidbats and 2 pairs (via greater Twin MM rod) of psuedonatural rocs (each of which had thier own kablooie affixed).

^_^


So if understand correctly you made a crap load of contingent death throes items before hand, plane shifted to the Far Realm? and then handed out your goodies to your little mooks to hold for later when you brought them into battle to explode for you? You shouldn't be posting sketchy tactics like that online you will give players ideas that were never meant to see the dim light of the gaming table. Of course I'm tempted to use some of those tactics myself, but I would rather not set that kind of precedent as it will only encourage my PCs to search for further ways to exploit the rules to their advantage.

Turin the Mad wrote:
P.H. Dungeon wrote:

Congratulations on seeing Age of Worms through to completion. I hope that I can do the same with Savage Tide, though my kill rating won't be near 86 (maybe closer to 12). It sounded like a nasty final fight (with some really ridiculous exploitation of the rules I might add). I'm still a little unclear on how Turin's cleric manage to cast 30 some odd contingent death throes spells on a bunch of critters he summoned (what were they any how?). Reading about some of these fights seriously makes my head spin and dread running the later parts of Savage Tide. Right now we're sitting around 13th level and its going smooth, but I'm praying that my players won't start trying to pull the kind of BS your players do (I don't think I would enjoy the game if they did). Props to you for putting up with that crap and sending it right back at them.

How were your players feeling after the final battle? Did they walk out feeling good about the campaign or were they frustrated that they were all slaughtered and Kyuss beat them?

Well, remember, when you have named (unique) summonable monsters, one can (via plane shift, greater scrying, et al) travel to where they live and give them swag - in this case, Craft Contingent Item: Death Throes. The squidbats (pseudonatural very low-level monsters) were brought in via (Metamagic Rod, Lesser: Twin) Summon Monster of sufficient level to summon (under incense of meditation) 10 critters a pop. Divine Metamagic Quicken and Rapid Spell plus a one-use Time Stop permitted me to expend my turn attempts and summon 3 sets of 10 squidbats and 2 pairs (via greater Twin MM rod) of psuedonatural rocs (each of which had thier own kablooie affixed).

^_^


P.H. Dungeon wrote:

So if understand correctly you made a crap load of contingent death throes items before hand, plane shifted to the Far Realm? and then handed out your goodies to your little mooks to hold for later when you brought them into battle to explode for you? You shouldn't be posting sketchy tactics like that online you will give players ideas that were never meant to see the dim light of the gaming table. Of course I'm tempted to use some of those tactics myself, but I would rather not set that kind of precedent as it will only encourage my PCs to search for further ways to exploit the rules to their advantage.

Actually, the Craft Contingent Spell (Item Creation) feat doesn't generate an actual goody so much as it 'hangs' a spell on the recipient. So, they (when summoned) could blow up, and be available 24 hours later...


Olaf the Stout wrote:

Allen, I don't know you or your playing group at all so take this with a large pinch of salt. Turin the Mad PC's decision to switch sides on his fellow PC's may have made total sense from an in-character perspective, but I imagine that I would have felt pretty crappy about it as a fellow player. Doesn't it render the entire campaign lead up to this final session totally irrelevent?

I guess I play D&D to take on and defeat the bad guys, not to side with them and help them take over the world. I also dislike evil PC's since it nearly always results in the PC's eventually turning on each other at some stage (having said that, I love the RPG, Paranoia).

Like I said though, I don't know you or your players so take what I say with a large pinch of salt.

Olaf the Stout

Olaf, I'd feel utterly betrayed as well if I were on the receiving end of it. I don't think Turin's actions render the entire campaign irrelevent, but as you can note from my preceeding posts, I did undertake damage control to avoid the problems that his actions, as well as the group's overall failure (i.e. my actions) created; and give the players some degree of consolation. It was my obversation that the players (at the time of destruction) all believed that Turin did what he did for the "Good of the group" in taking out the Brood Fiends. They STILL DO NOT comprehend what Turin actually did. I don't think Turin did what he did entirely to screw the other players in the group, rather, it was clear that it was going to be him against Kyuss and what ever other minions of Kyuss were still around, and Turin... took the opportunity to indulge his character's true nature...:/

It's complicated Olaf, I agree with you.


ArchLich wrote:

That arcane strike. Ugglllyy.

But fair is fair. Use an invented twist of the rules and not expect a DM to then use that same door? It would be like a DM opening a can of twisted logic or made up items or spells for his/her BBEG and not expecting the players to pounce on it like a bunch of starving ghouls leaping on a fallen paladin.

Absolutely Arch Lich. I couldn't agree with you more. It was the same way when I finally after much suffering took out the Half-Minotaur Frenzied Beserker with the Anti Magic Armor. I beat them fairly, and at their own respective games:D And it was incredibly satisfying to boot...


P.H. Dungeon wrote:

Congratulations on seeing Age of Worms through to completion. I hope that I can do the same with Savage Tide, though my kill rating won't be near 86 (maybe closer to 12). It sounded like a nasty final fight (with some really ridiculous exploitation of the rules I might add). I'm still a little unclear on how Turin's cleric manage to cast 30 some odd contingent death throes spells on a bunch of critters he summoned (what were they any how?). Reading about some of these fights seriously makes my head spin and dread running the later parts of Savage Tide. Right now we're sitting around 13th level and its going smooth, but I'm praying that my players won't start trying to pull the kind of BS your players do (I don't think I would enjoy the game if they did). Props to you for putting up with that crap and sending it right back at them.

How were your players feeling after the final battle? Did they walk out feeling good about the campaign or were they frustrated that they were all slaughtered and Kyuss beat them?

The fewer number of players you have will by definition make things easier. I had up to TWELVE players at one time on some weeks, and had to suffer for my choice to admit so many players. If you have players that play standard, run of the mill characters with regular magic items that they haven't bent the rules shamefully to create and under-pay for, then you're probably onto a decent finish. If your players are the types that think that victory is the next obscene magic item away, and that the new 3.5 Splat book will give them "the edge" over you, then good luck...

The players were Extremely PISSED OFF when they left the game. It's very tough when you've played in a campaign for the past 13 months (and it goes down in defeat). I dare say most GM's almost feel obligated to give it to the players for their perserverence. I DIDN'T... I suspect that some of my players won't play under me again. Their avoidance of me is probably understandable, but really not necessary. Although I'll still slaughter PC's in my future campaigns, I'll do it a bit less enthusiastically with this current crew. Now if I can recruit new players into the fold between now and my next campaign, then the Bloodbath is on full steam AGAIN.


P.H. Dungeon wrote:

So if understand correctly you made a crap load of contingent death throes items before hand, plane shifted to the Far Realm? and then handed out your goodies to your little mooks to hold for later when you brought them into battle to explode for you? You shouldn't be posting sketchy tactics like that online you will give players ideas that were never meant to see the dim light of the gaming table. Of course I'm tempted to use some of those tactics myself, but I would rather not set that kind of precedent as it will only encourage my PCs to search for further ways to exploit the rules to their advantage.

P.H., I burst out laughing when I read your post:D Yes, this kind of crap is VINTAGE Turin. This is why in the rare instance when he and I are both players in someone else's game, we pretty soon are terrorizing the campaign world, our fellow players, and most of all the GM in question:D


And what else did you expect from the "Elder Faust"?


Well I wouldn't say that my players play standard run of the mill characters. The 13th level fighter/swashbuckler/wizard/abjurant champion /eldritch knight with a 41+ AC isn't run of the mill, and the spellthief and cleric/demonwrecker- though a little more run of the mill are pretty damn competent. Only the Hexblade is proving to be a bit of shlump, but that is mostly because his player is pretty new to the game and hasn't learned all the sneaky tricks my other players know. My players like to find an edge with the splat books, though I often flat out disallow certain items, feats, prestige classes etc... In fact I sometimes refer to this thread to decide which of such things to disallow. For me this campaign is a very good example of a lot of very broken- well let's just say a lot of what I've seen in these post seems a bit ridiculous and broken for my gaming tastes. For example- Minotaur Frenzied Berserker (that's a paddlin, and I would burn the character sheet), Anti magic armour (that's a paddlin), 12 headed hydra doing however many spells levels of arcane strike damage (that's a paddlin, and the gods will rain death upon you for your hubris), Summoning 30 exploding squid to do 1000+ damage (points for humour and creativity, but you also get a free paddlin).

Allen Stewart wrote:
P.H. Dungeon wrote:

Congratulations on seeing Age of Worms through to completion. I hope that I can do the same with Savage Tide, though my kill rating won't be near 86 (maybe closer to 12). It sounded like a nasty final fight (with some really ridiculous exploitation of the rules I might add). I'm still a little unclear on how Turin's cleric manage to cast 30 some odd contingent death throes spells on a bunch of critters he summoned (what were they any how?). Reading about some of these fights seriously makes my head spin and dread running the later parts of Savage Tide. Right now we're sitting around 13th level and its going smooth, but I'm praying that my players won't start trying to pull the kind of BS your players do (I don't think I would enjoy the game if they did). Props to you for putting up with that crap and sending it right back at them.

How were your players feeling after the final battle? Did they walk out feeling good about the campaign or were they frustrated that they were all slaughtered and Kyuss beat them?

The fewer number of players you have will by definition make things easier. I had up to TWELVE players at one time on some weeks, and had to suffer for my choice to admit so many players. If you have players that play standard, run of the mill characters with regular magic items that they haven't bent the rules shamefully to create and under-pay for, then you're probably onto a decent finish. If your players are the types that think that victory is the next obscene magic item away, and that the new 3.5 Splat book will give them "the edge" over you, then good luck...

The players were Extremely PISSED OFF when they left the game. It's very tough when you've played in a campaign for the past 13 months (and it goes down in defeat). I dare say most GM's almost feel obligated to give it to the players for their perserverence. I DIDN'T... I suspect that some of my players won't play under me again. Their avoidance of me is probably understandable, but really not...


Allen Stewart wrote:
P.H. Dungeon wrote:

So if understand correctly you made a crap load of contingent death throes items before hand, plane shifted to the Far Realm? and then handed out your goodies to your little mooks to hold for later when you brought them into battle to explode for you? You shouldn't be posting sketchy tactics like that online you will give players ideas that were never meant to see the dim light of the gaming table. Of course I'm tempted to use some of those tactics myself, but I would rather not set that kind of precedent as it will only encourage my PCs to search for further ways to exploit the rules to their advantage.

P.H., I burst out laughing when I read your post:D Yes, this kind of crap is VINTAGE Turin. This is why in the rare instance when he and I are both players in someone else's game, we pretty soon are terrorizing the campaign world, our fellow players, and most of all the GM in question:D

Yes Good Sir P.H., I have long held a nasty habit of "non standard" approaches to things - and a marked willingness as a player to take out the antagonists' with me if I can - depending on the character concept and game system of course.

I do respectfully submit that the tactic is not sketchy - it is blatantly unfair true, but hardly sketchy. As I recall pointing out previously (several pages back now), there are already 'standard' magic items that have destructive tendencies when things do not go well for thier bearer too ... the DMG has so many unpleasant things in it for the perceptive character/NPC...

Of course, since Yasha has fielded an interesting request, soon I shall have to post Brother Faust the Elder's ... unique, shall we say, perspective on the Age of Worms and his role within...


I'm all for thinking outside the box, but I still say that last tactic was sketchy (I might very grudgingly give you legitimate, but with a sketchy tacked on the end). If I were running that game and you tried to plane shift to wherever you had to go to find those psuedo natural squid thingies I think I would have sicked the nastiest Far Realm elder evil type monster I could find on you while you were casting your contingent spells.

I mean in order to power up all those mooks how many times would have to visit the plane to actually cast bond that many contingent death throes spells to your little minions?

And doesn't plane shift require a special focus rod to get to the requisite plane? I thought the Far Realm (I assume the Far realm was where these critters came from since your character was an alienist) was such an alien plane that only a handful of mortals had ever traveled to it, so finding such a focal rod would be next to impossible or would at least constitute an adventure in its own right. Plus you are pretty much guaranteed to go insane if you log any significant time on that plane.

I'm just saying it all seems a little sketchy to me.

Turin the Mad wrote:
Allen Stewart wrote:
P.H. Dungeon wrote:

So if understand correctly you made a crap load of contingent death throes items before hand, plane shifted to the Far Realm? and then handed out your goodies to your little mooks to hold for later when you brought them into battle to explode for you? You shouldn't be posting sketchy tactics like that online you will give players ideas that were never meant to see the dim light of the gaming table. Of course I'm tempted to use some of those tactics myself, but I would rather not set that kind of precedent as it will only encourage my PCs to search for further ways to exploit the rules to their advantage.

P.H., I burst out laughing when I read your post:D Yes, this kind of crap is VINTAGE Turin. This is why in the rare instance when he and I are both players in someone else's game, we pretty soon are terrorizing the campaign world, our fellow players, and most of all the GM in question:D

Yes Good Sir P.H., I have long held a nasty habit of "non standard" approaches to things - and a marked willingness as a player to take out the antagonists' with me if I can - depending on the character concept and game system of course.

I do respectfully submit that the tactic is not sketchy - it is blatantly unfair true, but hardly [/i]sketchy[/i]. As I recall pointing out previously (several pages back now), there are already 'standard' magic items that have destructive tendencies when things do not go well for thier bearer too ... the DMG has so many unpleasant things in it for the perceptive character/NPC...

Of course, since Yasha has fielded an interesting request, soon I shall have to post Brother Faust the Elder's ... unique, shall we say, perspective on the Age of Worms and his role within...


You make points I neither had time to consider when generating the character nor information to consider with, P.H. - the Far Realms is VERY sketchily detailed in what books I have. (Lords of Madness, for example, is not a book I nor anyone I know has. That may well be the book I really needed to have to do this with, sad to say...)

I figured between being a High Priest of Tharizdun and a 10th level Alienist that it was reasonably safe to 'pre-game' the arrangements in question. Had such a thing been considered in play, no question it would have been quite difficult indeed to accomplish the kablooie-buffing of the mini-onions. Not impossible though - between the Force Domain spells, as well as timing such a trip to occur once Mind Blank is available (not to mention Telekinetic Sphere, ideal for encapsulation of a crafter and his pet squidbat up to a certain size range), would definitively have delayed such acquisitions until very high level indeed. Persistent Summon Monster I-III would arguably ignore the requirement for that specific item creation feat, since it specifically requires just the recipient to be present on any given day. That would have definitely mitigated the squidbat-rocs from having kablooies for a certainty, since that expressly requires Summon Monster IX for an Alienist to acquire. (Divine Persistent Metamagic, on the other hand, would also end-run around the 'going there' requirement as well, at a very hefty cost in rebuke attempts...)

Hindsight, as usual, reveals flaws not perceived at the time of implementation. This one, if palatable, is one that is easily rectified/retconned to accomodate the same goal.


Incidentally Turin, if KC did have his Duskblade True Res'd just before the Squid Bats went 'Bang', then the kill count for the campiagn would be 87... I don't recall whether he actually glued the PC back together or not before his body was blown into sub atomic particles.


Incidentally, when are we starting up the new thread for Savage Tide 2?


Allen Stewart wrote:
Incidentally Turin, if KC did have his Duskblade True Res'd just before the Squid Bats went 'Bang', then the kill count for the campiagn would be 87... I don't recall whether he actually glued the PC back together or not before his body was blown into sub atomic particles.

He was quite clear in that the kamikaze-squidbats got his character 'Ying' along with the mage and the other, non-mazed cleric. Keeping in mind the 'deconfirmed kill' (the one mettle would rightly have thwarted) keeps the total body count at 86.


Allen Stewart wrote:
Incidentally, when are we starting up the new thread for Savage Tide 2?

Soon enough good sir, although I might well do so via an alias appropriate to the ... effects of the aftermath of the Age of Worms. Mayhap Brother Faust the Elder would be an appropriate narrarator...


Allen Stewart wrote:
And what else did you expect from the "Elder Faust"?

To perhaps "voice" the journal for STAP Crew 2 my good man ... ^_^


Awesome.


" Some months ago Tharizdun sent me a terrible vision. A mighty band of heroes, with several blasphemous clerics of the light, astride the bones of the ancient servant of Kyuss known throughout near to all of recorded history as Dragotha, were about to lay low the demi-gawd Kyuss and thwart the Writhing Doom promised for so long.

This of course must not come to pass! So while the fetid luminous minions of the Great Heavenly Deception were rampaging through the Spire south of the insignificant speck of a port, I took my ancient bones into my cloistered chambers and began the process of summoning my favored squidbat minions, small and gargantuan. Due to the nature of parting the veil of reality, my hold on channelling the caressing power of the Negative Material Plane was not as strong as a 'pure' cleric of Tharizdun. In compensation, however, the Truths of reality so painstakingly hidden behind the guise of the Burning Hateful One and his brethren unlocked far more pleasurable powers than such a paltry things as mere undead.

During the preceeding decades, ever mindful of the zealous prosecution of Tharizdun's faithful, the stars have once more come right - and according to the visions, should coincide with the release of Kyuss from his long slumber, simultaneously and joyously inflicting great weakness in the bindings so long ago emplaced upon Tharizdun. The other seals and rituals have been broken and performed.

So, with great purpose and malice aforethought, my time was divided between scrying upon the fools of Celestia - learning their identities, their methods of operation and ultimately thier foolish reliance upon brute force to solve most of thier challenges - and preparing my pets for the necessity of administering truly massive destruction upon all who would thwart Tharizdun's declared agenda - in this case, coinciding nicely with Kyuss' own re-emergence into the Flaaness.

Moons came and went, the proper sacrifices were made, much information was gleaned and finally my beloved squidbats were prepared to wage utter destruction at the temporary expense of thier summoned existence on this meager world. I continued to bid my time and re-acquaint myself with the supposed niceties of 'civilized men'. And at last, a few short weeks ago the last commissioned tools so necessary to my preservation while at the expense of all others in close proximity.

Bah! The strong take what they want from those unable to stop them. That is the way of things. And very few can prevent me from taking what I want, when I want it. My sibling should be entering the picture soon enough...

At last, after the disgusting servants of the light finally dispatched mighty Dragotha - albiet at a great cost in lives and hide, and that was my cue. With the success of the Lenny Bomb, confidence was to be had in the inevitable result! "

Two years later...

" I shall have to find away to deprive Death of his deserved soul - there is still too much to do. At least the southern idiots continue to herd experimental subjects over the mountains soon enough...


Well some good may have come of all this. Now the whole "we-will-triumph-because-we-are-good-so-we-really-don't-have-to-be-smart-or -careful" attitude has been proven false. Also the future victories they receive will be ones the earned so it will be that much sweeter. Also point out the uber characters and rules lawyering caused the uber enemies.

If you make the DM do alot of extra work to just challenge your character then a challenge you shall receive.


And Turin has given you the perfect way to clear the slate for a new campaign (not by helping kyuss but by his and his gods ultimate goals). Kyuss wants complete dominance. So head to head showdown eventually. While these resources are being pitted against each other there is a place for new heros to shine and try and topple both.


This account reminds me of how relieved all of us were when Dragotha wiped out the party. There was no desire among any of us to continue the campaign, and the general consensus was that high-level combat is for the birds. Glad it worked for you, though.


ArchLich wrote:
Also point out the uber characters and rules lawyering caused the uber enemies.

I have been playing with this group for a couple of years now. I did not participate in this game however. I used to be a big powergamer too but got bored doing so. This guilty party always power games, appropiate or not to the GM's and players hopes and goals for the game. Killer GM has no qualms about making them pay for there habits. Of the two worst power gamers in my opinion, one of the players likes the challenge of big bad guys but doesn't realize that it hurts the other players who do not power game chances of of surviving and enjoying the game. The other player just like powerful characters and dies, repeatedly, and instead of playing a more reasonable character with a better mindset about it, he makes something more power-gamed and annoyed that yet another character has died, further exagorating the problem. I give our killer GM props for handling well this issue reasonably well. He managed to kill one of the 20+ times out of his 78ish without resorting to TPK's every session to deal with them.


ArchLich wrote:

Well some good may have come of all this. Now the whole "we-will-triumph-because-we-are-good-so-we-really-don't-have-to-be-smart-or -careful" attitude has been proven false. Also the future victories they receive will be ones the earned so it will be that much sweeter. Also point out the uber characters and rules lawyering caused the uber enemies.

If you make the DM do alot of extra work to just challenge your character then a challenge you shall receive.

Truth be known, the "Uber enemies" you refer to, were for the most part, completely scripted as per the magazine. Granted there were a couple of additions on my part, but the main alteration I made was only to the spell lists of numerous Scripted villain NPC's, That's to be expected. If the players in question used only the PH/DMG for character creation (and especially for spell selection, as were used for determing the spells for all monsters & villains throughout the campaign), then things would absolutely be left as is, but fact is that most if not all players take their spells from the Spell Compendium and have numerous magic items from the 'Magic Item Compendium', which I don't even own or have access to..., gives the PC's a TREMENDOUS advantage over the villains & monsters who do not have "equal access". Dragotha for example, would have been oblitterated by Turin the Mad in ONE ROUND via a simple Turning Attempt, were it not for a 4th level spell from the Spell Compendium, "Lifeward".


PsychicAce wrote:
ArchLich wrote:
Also point out the uber characters and rules lawyering caused the uber enemies.
I have been playing with this group for a couple of years now. I did not participate in this game however. I used to be a big powergamer too but got bored doing so. This guilty party always power games, appropiate or not to the GM's and players hopes and goals for the game. Killer GM has no qualms about making them pay for there habits. Of the two worst power gamers in my opinion, one of the players likes the challenge of big bad guys but doesn't realize that it hurts the other players who do not power game chances of of surviving and enjoying the game. The other player just like powerful characters and dies, repeatedly, and instead of playing a more reasonable character with a better mindset about it, he makes something more power-gamed and annoyed that yet another character has died, further exagorating the problem. I give our killer GM props for handling well this issue reasonably well. He managed to kill one of the 20+ times out of his 78ish without resorting to TPK's every session to deal with them.

I completely concur Ace. And I know, you know these players personally, and are thus completely qualified to ventue such an opinion.

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